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#YesAllGamergate
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subego
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Nov 1, 2014, 07:50 PM
 
Anyone still give a shit about this? I must admit, it's only gotten myself pissed at everybody involved on both sides.

I'm sure I'll end up pissed at myself before this thread is over.
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 1, 2014, 08:16 PM
 
See?

I thought that thread title was funny when I wrote it. Now I just think I'm a dick.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Nov 2, 2014, 12:34 AM
 
Threatening anyone with murder and/or rape is inexcusable.
Screwing journalists to get positive reviews and endorsements is bad (and tacky).
Doxing people for calling out the people who made threats on women is bad.
Saying that all gamers are scum and subhuman is bad.
Saying that the gaming press is corrupt is... pretty accurate.
Claiming that "gamer culture is dead" is ridiculous.
Spamming #gamergate everywhere is way past annoying.
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subego  (op)
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Nov 2, 2014, 02:40 PM
 
That's one of the things which pisses me off about this.

Couldn't give a crap about who a developer sleeps with*, but raiding Wizardchan seems really scummy. Likewise with raiding 4chan's female game developer fund.

I very, very much dislike her for those things, and find them antithetical to fixing the pretty ****ing severe vein of misogyny which runs through gamer culture (and Internet culture for that matter).


*OTOH, if you blog a laundry list of who your ex is ****ing... you are a total scumbag. God, what an asshole.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 2, 2014, 02:57 PM
 
I fail to see any real relationship to journalism, though: my brother worked for Germany's biggest game magazine for a few years, and to claim that sexual favors are the problem laughable. Most of the (soft) pressure was whether the journalists could keep review hardware or they'd have to send it back (and those €€€ graphics cards piled up quickly). Also, the companies seem to get to know the review before it appears, and a few times my brother's boss »adjusted« his article to get better scores.

Only women were serious targets of aggression and astroturfing of some self-proclaimed gamers. The term gamergate has become a poisoned well, if you have some other legitimate complaints, don't associate yourself with it. And to blame both sides equally is really missing the point: there is a big difference between speaking your mind and saying something you disagree with, and having to fear for your life to the degree that you have to move out of your home or you have to cancel public appearances for fear of your life. Big difference. Assuming it is true (and I'm not saying it is) and there were sexual favors traded for better scores in a gaming mag, how does that even compare?
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Laminar
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Nov 2, 2014, 04:13 PM
 
I found this article to be a decent summary written from a neutral point of view.
     
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Nov 2, 2014, 05:22 PM
 
The best piece I have read about Gamergate is probably this one. It is not everything there is to say about it, and I'm not even sure I agree with a big chunk of it, but it is well worth reading. Warning: long.

What strikes me about this whole brouhaha is how there is no solid evidence of wrongdoing among gaming journalists. We know that gaming journalists are being pressured about review scores (see the Gerstman story for the most flagrant example), but that is from the big publishers, not from indie developers. Even the original blog post did not allege any such undue influence, and in fact included enough details to disprove it. You'd think there would be some smoke by now. Instead, it's all anonymous death threats

Also: How come we don't know the name of any prominent GamerGate supporters? It's all just anonymous twitter handles.

Note, btw, about the guy who posted the blog post that started this whole thing: He was interviewed here. It seems to have exploded in ways he couldn't predict - after all, if I put a blog post on some site, I don't expect the entire world to read it. A mistake to be sure, but an understandable one.
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Nov 2, 2014, 07:23 PM
 
One more link:

I’m not “that creepy guy from the Internet”: How Gamergate gave the geek community a bad name - Salon.com

Again, long but worth reading - about why the discussion around GamerGate remains important.
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Nov 2, 2014, 07:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Screwing journalists to get positive reviews and endorsements is bad (and tacky).
And never happened.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Saying that all gamers are scum and subhuman is bad.
Also never happened.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Claiming that "gamer culture is dead" is ridiculous.
I think a lot of people completely misunderstood what the "gamers are dead" opinion pieces were all about. Which is ridiculous because they were pretty clearly written.

There is a pretty notion that there are "gamers" and there's "everyone else" (those filthy casuals, or people who play for story or socialization and not game mechanics, or those who like "arty" stuff like Gone Home and The Path, or senior citizens playing Wii Tennis in the lounge, etc etc).

Except this is nonsense. Do you play games? No one has the right to tell you you aren't a real gamer. This was the real point of those articles, that "gamers versus everyone else" is a ridiculous notion, and that pandering to self-righteous "gamers" is a terrible business strategy. "Gamers are dead," because everyone is a gamer.

So-called "gamers" have been moaning that games are being dumbed down to be more accessible, that games devs are buckling under pressure by "social justice warriors" to be more inclusive, and other such frivolous complaints.

At the same time, GamerGaters said nothing as Shadow of Mordor was promoted with an aggressive, unethical campaign giving early review access to YouTubers as long as they reviewed the game exactly as they were told to, and dissenters were hit DMCA orders. (This was exposed by Jim Sterling, one of those "social justice warriors" GamerGaters are moaning about.)

Shadow of Mordor's shady, controversial brand deal: A closer look

But no, GamerGater attacked a dev who gave away her text adventure game for free and accused her of fncking for good reviews.

GamerGate is not about "corruption" or "ethics" or anything similar. They are exclusively concerned with demonizing feminists who comment about problematic issues. By their own words and deeds, they clearly don't care about anything else.
     
lpkmckenna
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Nov 2, 2014, 07:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
The best piece I have read about Gamergate is probably this one. It is not everything there is to say about it, and I'm not even sure I agree with a big chunk of it, but it is well worth reading. Warning: long.
Read that yesterday. Good stuff.
     
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Nov 2, 2014, 07:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I found this article to be a decent summary written from a neutral point of view.
That's not neutral.
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lpkmckenna
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Nov 2, 2014, 07:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Couldn't give a crap about who a developer sleeps with*, but raiding Wizardchan seems really scummy. Likewise with raiding 4chan's female game developer fund.
I find the notion that she pulled off these elaborate hacks to be pretty preposterous.
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 2, 2014, 07:41 PM
 
I understand the claim to be it was her fans.
     
lpkmckenna
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Nov 2, 2014, 07:44 PM
 
This is pretty damn funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr2JPjhtGZA

EDIT: Fixed my link.
EDIT2: Fixed it again. Grrrr...
( Last edited by lpkmckenna; Nov 2, 2014 at 07:59 PM. )
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Nov 2, 2014, 07:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
And never happened.
Like you would know. Given her other actions, it's obvious that her moral compass is seriously broken.

Also never happened.
Right.

I think a lot of people completely misunderstood what the "gamers are dead" opinion pieces were all about. Which is ridiculous because they were pretty clearly written.
I read the Twitter posts and articles, I know the context of those statements.

Anyone who wants to see a perspective that's actually neutral, here's Totalbiscuit's take, another that's more recent.
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lpkmckenna
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Nov 2, 2014, 08:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Like you would know. Given her other actions, it's obvious that her moral compass is seriously broken.
It never happened. Show me the link to the game reviews.

Who the fnck is Ben Dreyfuss? I'm talking about what game editors wrote on their sites, not what some nobody at a political site wrote.

Anyone who wants to see a perspective that's actually neutral, here's Totalbiscuit's take, another that's more recent.
I'll watch this stuff, but in the first 60 secs, he tries to tell us that the harassment and death threats are not what this is all about. This STARTED with harassment of Zoe Quinn following the LIES that she fncked 5 guys for positive reviews. Trying to make it about something else is an attempt to change the discussion.

It's not that there's not a serious discussion to be had about games journalism. It's that there's no serious discussion to be had that Zoe Quinn or Anita Sarkessian are the cause (or even a symptom) of problems in games journalism. The entire notion is friggin' absurd.

EDIT: I am now on minute 11 of the first video, and he still hasn't addressed GamerGate to any degree. So far, he's basically said "Some writers, like Nathan Grayson, wrote Op-Eds not reviews." Um, so fncking what? How is that "corrupt?" I'm starting to think you've asked me you watch almost an hour of videos that will barely discuss the subject of this thread.

EDIT2: Oh look, at 25 mins, he finally starts discussing something relevant to this thread: the articles about "gamers are dead." And he accuses those articles of being "anti-consumer" and attacking game players. Which is exactly what they weren't. As I said above, "gamers are dead" is about the death of the concept of "the gamer," of the phoney distinction between "true gamers" and "the other people." The only people who are attacked are the people who believe gaming is "their hobby" and those dirty feminists and "SJW" aren't allowed to call themselves gamers and need to be demonized for having an opinion about games.

EDIT3: So I'm 11 minutes into the second video, and both TB and the interviewer are saying what I've been saying: the injection of social criticism into video game reviews is NOT an issue of ethics or corruption. But the GamerGaters say that's exactly what it's about!

EDIT4: So I finished the second video. Overall, much more relevant to our thread. I have to say, I think TB is drastically underplaying the leadership role that misogynist trolls have played in GamerGater, and overstating the seriousness of the ethical concerns that have been raised under the GamerGate banner. For instance, and the last few moments he brought up the "conspiracy" of GameJournoPros, and says an apology for this "abuse" is still owed to consumers. But Ars Technica writer Kyle Orland already addressed this issue well before this interview:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/0...g-journalists/

I think it's incredibly disappointing that TB thinks these allegation have any merit, especially since he claims that gamers are still owned an apology for it. But does Milo Yiannopoulos, that right-wing gadfly at Breitbart who "uncovered" this "abuse" owe gamers an apology for his actual bashing of gamers? That's right, Milo was a habitual games basher before he decided to exploit the GamerGate saga for his own rightwing causes.

If you don't think GamerGate is about bashing feminism (as I said several times above), what exactly do you think this column from Milo is all about?

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-L...Industry-Apart

That's right, read the full URL: Lying Greedy Promiscuous Feminist Bullies.

"Ethics in Game Journalism." Like I said, this is about bashing women for wanting a say in how they are represented and misrepresented.
( Last edited by lpkmckenna; Nov 2, 2014 at 09:45 PM. )
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Nov 2, 2014, 09:14 PM
 
Don't strain yourself, then. Essentially one side believes #gamergate is about the threats, while the other sees it as corruption within gaming journalism. Until both can see that it's about both, it's a pointless exercise to even discuss it, as all that leads to is more crying from both.

I didn't say Grayson wrote a review, however he does wield a good deal of influence at Kokaku. Ben Dreyfuss is a contributor for Motherjones, but he also writes freelance pieces for numerous other online publications, including lifestyle pieces involving game culture.

At the same time, GamerGaters said nothing as Shadow of Mordor was promoted with an aggressive, unethical campaign giving early review access to YouTubers as long as they reviewed the game exactly as they were told to, and dissenters were hit DMCA orders. (This was exposed by Jim Sterling, one of those "social justice warriors" GamerGaters are moaning about.)
That just points back to the corruption I was talking about, this isn't new, it's been going on for decades.


Edit: and that expends the amount of f**** I give regarding the subject, so whatever.
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Laminar
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Nov 2, 2014, 09:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
This STARTED with harassment of Zoe Quinn following the LIES that she ****ed 5 guys
Great, now I'm hungry.
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 2, 2014, 09:33 PM
 
I'm about to **** a Wendy's Baconator.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Nov 2, 2014, 09:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
It never happened. Show me the link to the game reviews.
How about a link to Kukaku's editor himself admitting Quinn and Grayson had a romantic relationship? 5 minutes into this clip. Anyway, blah, blah, not like it will change anyone's POV anyway. Carry on.
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lpkmckenna
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Nov 2, 2014, 10:32 PM
 
If you still don't think GamerGate is about misogyny, let's all remember that it was originally called The Quinnspiracy, and was fixated around the lie that Zoe Quinn fncked 5 guys to get good reviews.

Here was one of the early ringleaders: The Internet Aristocrat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5-5...vkQlgfGGJR2yxQ

He starts off with a somewhat relevant discussion about DMCA takedown abuse, then whining about feminist criticism entering games media, before launching into his rant about Zoe's sex life. And it's fncking vile. The long work up leads to the penultimate slut-shaming rant at about 16 mins in:

Originally Posted by Internet Aristocrat
Do I have that right, Zoe? You fnck for publicity, you fnck to suppress stories, and then you also fnck people to make anybody who criticizes you to go away.
And then he goes into full-till bullish!t mode and conjures up a story that Phil Fish and Zoe Quinn were probably fncking and that's the only reason he defends Zoe Quinn. We literally hear The Internet Aristocrat make up a story about a new sexual scandal without a shred of proof. And then he suggests 2 more unproven sexual affairs, one involving Anita Sarkessian, again without a shred of proof. But yeah, this is all about "ethics in game journalism."

This video was incredibly popular, with almost a million views, and it got two sequels with even more bullish!t loaded in. These are the kind of people who spearheaded GamerGate, not Total Biscuit.
     
lpkmckenna
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Nov 2, 2014, 10:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
How about a link to Kukaku's editor himself admitting Quinn and Grayson had a romantic relationship?
We already know that. It was admitted openly. But it was after he mentioned her in passing for an article, and he never wrote a review about her game. The scandal literally never happened.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Nov 2, 2014, 10:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
If you still don't think GamerGate is about misogyny, let's all remember that it was originally called The Quinnspiracy, and was fixated around the lie that Zoe Quinn fncked 5 guys to get good reviews.

Here was one of the early ringleaders: The Internet Aristocrat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5-5...vkQlgfGGJR2yxQ

He starts off with a somewhat relevant discussion about DMCA takedown abuse, then whining about feminist criticism entering games media, before launching into his rant about Zoe's sex life. And it's fncking vile. The long work up leads to the penultimate slut-shaming rant at about 16 mins in:

And then he goes into full-till bullish!t mode and conjures up a story that Phil Fish and Zoe Quinn were probably fncking and that's the only reason he defends Zoe Quinn. We literally hear The Internet Aristocrat make up a story about a new sexual scandal without a shred of proof. And then he suggests 2 more unproven sexual affairs, one involving Anita Sarkessian, again without a shred of proof. But yeah, this is all about "ethics in game journalism."

This video was incredibly popular, with almost a million views, and it got two sequels with even more bullish!t loaded in. These are the kind of people who spearheaded GamerGate, not Total Biscuit.
I don't care about Quinn, or who she's allegedly screwing, or Sarkessian and her bilking supporters out of piles of money, the only angle that interests me is the morally bankrupt state of the gaming industry. My eyes almost literally glaze over when the BS over Quinn and Sarkessian comes up, that's a complete distraction.
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Nov 2, 2014, 10:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
We already know that. It was admitted openly. But it was after he mentioned her in passing for an article, and he never wrote a review about her game. The scandal literally never happened.
Whatever. No one knows what influence he may or may not have asserted, certainly not us. TB's point, and mine too, is that there shouldn't be romantic relationships between journalists and devs to begin with. Period.
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lpkmckenna
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Nov 2, 2014, 11:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
TB's point, and mine too, is that there shouldn't be romantic relationships between journalists and devs to begin with. Period.
TB never said that. He said there should be fuller disclosure of seeming conflicts of interest.

And the notion that devs and journalists should *never* have relationships is idiotic. It's only relevant if a given journalist is reviewing or endorsing a particular dev.

... Sarkessian and her bilking supporters out of piles of money ...
Anita never bilked anyone out of anything. People voluntarily gave her money to make videos about stuff they want to watch. Any suggestion otherwise is ridiculous.

My eyes almost literally glaze over when the BS over Quinn and Sarkessian comes up, that's a complete distraction.
What you call a distraction is the heart of GamerGate.

EDIT: And it's a "distraction" that you yourself brought into this thread:
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
Screwing journalists to get positive reviews and endorsements is bad (and tacky).
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Nov 2, 2014, 11:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
TB never said that. He said there should be fuller disclosure of seeming conflicts of interest.

And the notion that devs and journalists should *never* have relationships is idiotic. It's only relevant if a given journalist is reviewing or endorsing a particular dev.
Whatever, I don't agree.

Anita never bilked anyone out of anything. People voluntarily gave her money to make videos about stuff they want to watch. Any suggestion otherwise is ridiculous.
Whatever.

What you call a distraction is the heart of GamerGate.
Not to me, don't care.

EDIT: And it's a "distraction" that you yourself brought into this thread:
Was talking about the Quinn sexcapades, don't care.
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Laminar
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Nov 3, 2014, 12:26 AM
 
So wait; are we talking about your concerns regarding the gaming industry or are we discussing the hashtaggamergate controversy? I thought we were trying to discuss gamergate but it sounds like you're trying to say gamergate is only about your concerns.
( Last edited by Laminar; Nov 3, 2014 at 01:23 AM. )
     
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Nov 3, 2014, 01:01 AM
 
You can discuss whatever you want, the Guinn aspect is just a symptom, one that's been beaten to death, not the cause.
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Nov 3, 2014, 02:00 AM
 
     
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Nov 3, 2014, 06:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Like you would know. Given her other actions, it's obvious that her moral compass is seriously broken.
Innocent until proven guilty. Not even that blog post from ex alleged anything remotely resembling corruption, that was all an invention in the minds of people who wanted to see that. No, if you want to look for corruption, look at the big publishers, not indies.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Nov 3, 2014, 11:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Innocent until proven guilty. Not even that blog post from ex alleged anything remotely resembling corruption, that was all an invention in the minds of people who wanted to see that. No, if you want to look for corruption, look at the big publishers, not indies.
This ain't a court of law, it's public opinion (otherwise there wouldn't be >100k people demonstrating in Ferguson, Mo). As was mentioned earlier, her actions against Wizardchan and the 4chan fund show she's completely capable of screwing people for money.

I'm right there with you regarding the big publishers, but it takes 2 sides for corruption to work and I really do believe that journalists should be held to a higher standard than regular folks.
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Nov 3, 2014, 12:07 PM
 
I enjoyed Anita's videos on gamer tropes, before this all happened, and thought she had some valid points to raise. There's some games I have no desire to play because of the way they treat female characters as window dressing or recipients of violence. (GTA, for example) I don't mind playing with a male avatar, but it is nice to be able to play as a capable female (Tomb Raider, despite the DDDs). None of her points make the games inherently evil or not fun to play, it's just pointing out trends, as she herself has said. Encouraging game companies to diversify, is that really a bad thing?

Now that this gamergate has happened, people are coming out of the woodwork to discredit and threaten her. Someone reposted an article on facebook, and I was appalled at the creatures who came out of the woodwork to call her c***, stupid b****, while at the same time asserting that she made up the death threats, or that it was part of gamer culture to swear/make threats at each other and she overreacted (really???), or that she generalized about games (perhaps the only coherent thought). If that is gamer culture, then who would admit to being a part of it? On Facebook, it's your real name, so these were real people frothing at the mouth, not sockpuppets.

I don't know about her Kickstarter, but when Yogscast fell back on their Kickstarter, I didn't dox them or send violent threats.

(Edit: that Salon article is very good. Felicia Day has given so much to the nerd community, and is awesome. Never heard of Arthur Chu, but good on him. )
( Last edited by andi*pandi; Nov 3, 2014 at 12:19 PM. )
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 3, 2014, 02:22 PM
 
@Andi

If I'm understanding you correctly, and Anita turned you off of GTA, that right there is where I have a problem with her.

If we're talking GTA3, we're talking about one of greatest games ever made. I'm saying this purely from a game design standpoint.

What did she say which turned you off?
     
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Nov 3, 2014, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If we're talking GTA3, we're talking about one of greatest games ever made.
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 3, 2014, 02:40 PM
 
WRT my overall position, I'm one of those people who see the journalism angle as almost inconsequential. I didn't need this to tell me games "journalism" is bullshit, I'm not even sure this would tell me that, since it appears she didn't get good reviews out of it as she was accused.

Further, even if she did, that's the reviewers ethical problem, not Quinn's.

OTOH, if she burned Wizardchan as has been accused, and made as much hay from it as it appears, that's really scummy, and a jaw-dropping display of hypocrisy.
     
andi*pandi
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Nov 3, 2014, 03:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
@Andi

If I'm understanding you correctly, and Anita turned you off of GTA, that right there is where I have a problem with her.

If we're talking GTA3, we're talking about one of greatest games ever made. I'm saying this purely from a game design standpoint.

What did she say which turned you off?
I will admit that I already had knowledge of the GTA series, so it wasn't that Anita *convinced* me not to like GTA, more that I found myself nodding in agreement. Have I played GTA? No. I have watched a few gameplay vids, and what I've seen has not encouraged me to drop $50 on any of them. No, I am not a "girl gamer" on the level of Felicia Day. Sure, there's some aspects that I'd probably find fun.

Are there women characters in the games, beyond the hookers? Do they do anything interesting, beyond getting run over?
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 3, 2014, 04:09 PM
 
There certainly aren't any consequential female characters I recall, but that's completely in keeping with the genre it's emulating.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's a game about homicidal maniacs. Us menfolk pretty much have the market cornered on that IRL and fiction.
     
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Nov 3, 2014, 04:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I will admit that I already had knowledge of the GTA series, so it wasn't that Anita *convinced* me not to like GTA, more that I found myself nodding in agreement. Have I played GTA? No. I have watched a few gameplay vids, and what I've seen has not encouraged me to drop $50 on any of them. No, I am not a "girl gamer" on the level of Felicia Day. Sure, there's some aspects that I'd probably find fun.

Are there women characters in the games, beyond the hookers? Do they do anything interesting, beyond getting run over?
Depends on the game. Women are a part of the storyline and side missions. A common thread through the series is getting a girlfriend and maintaining that relationship. The majority of the antagonists are men.
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 3, 2014, 04:15 PM
 
I should note for clarity I was talking about 3.
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 3, 2014, 06:35 PM
 
And to further note for (hopefully) more clarity, I don't question calling out GTA3 for the hookers. It's not like "genre appropriateness" is some sort of magic defense.

That said, if my analysis fails to touch on the part where the game design is utterly frigging brilliant, I would expect someone to question my appreciation of the industry I'm castigating.

To be extra clear: the industry is absolutely deserving of castigation. Not questioning that for a second.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 3, 2014, 07:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
There certainly aren't any consequential female characters I recall, but that's completely in keeping with the genre it's emulating.
(Emphasis mine.)
But that's at the heart of Sarkessian's criticism of many games: the stereotypes put forth in this genre are considered less and less acceptable by society.
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I don't mind playing with a male avatar, but it is nice to be able to play as a capable female (Tomb Raider, despite the DDDs).
According to the videos I've seen they've toned that down, Lara no longer has to fear for her spinal disks when she hits 45.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I'm right there with you regarding the big publishers, but it takes 2 sides for corruption to work and I really do believe that journalists should be held to a higher standard than regular folks.
The journalism angle is just a smoke screen in the debate.
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Mike Wuerthele
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Nov 3, 2014, 07:08 PM
 
The issues are pretty simple.

1) Threats of any kind towards other human beings over Internet journalism are ridiculous, regardless of reason.

2) Gaming websites feast at the PR mother, and that's essentially unavoidable as long as the READERS demand early access and "insider knowledge." Where do they think this comes from?

3) #gamergate may have a vague point about gaming journalism "ethics", or had one, but the message has been completely lost, see #1 above. How can a group responsible for threats, doxxing, and other ill behavior have any ground to stand on regarding ethics?

4) Completely objective review of a game? Here's one: takes 10GB of hard drive space, and 16GB of RAM. Absolutely everything else in a game review is opinion. The key is finding a reviewer whose tastes run parallel to your own.
     
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Nov 3, 2014, 07:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mike Wuerthele View Post
3) #gamergate may have a vague point about gaming journalism "ethics", or had one, but the message has been completely lost, see #1 above. How can a group responsible for threats, doxxing, and other ill behavior have any ground to stand on regarding ethics?
It's too late, the perception of what gamergate is already somewhere else. Anyone shouting on the top of his lungs that gamergate is really about something else, is wasting his breath.
Originally Posted by Mike Wuerthele View Post
4) Completely objective review of a game? Here's one: takes 10GB of hard drive space, and 16GB of RAM. Absolutely everything else in a game review is opinion. The key is finding a reviewer whose tastes run parallel to your own.
While there are subjective bits everywhere, some things are objective (e. g. performance on certain hardware, glitches, etc.). And the companies are trying very hard to influence writers (including some things that an outsider would consider absolutely ridiculous -- and ineffective).
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P
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Nov 3, 2014, 07:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I don't mind playing with a male avatar, but it is nice to be able to play as a capable female (Tomb Raider, despite the DDDs).
You should try the reboot (called just Tomb Raider, from 2013) - she looks downright human. Also playing as a female character in a Bioware game (any of the really, except DA2, but the Mass Effect games in particular).

Encouraging game companies to diversify, is that really a bad thing?
Cue Colbert suggesting "separate but equal games", and Sarkeesian saying she'd be fine with that, completely messing up the joke.

That clip is well worth watching, btw. Hilarious.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 3, 2014, 10:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
(Emphasis mine.)
But that's at the heart of Sarkessian's criticism of many games: the stereotypes put forth in this genre are considered less and less acceptable by society.
Go on...
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 3, 2014, 10:38 PM
 
I mean, I'm confused...

The homicidal maniac mass-murderer as exclusively male is a stereotype society no longer accepts? I assume that's not what you're saying, so that means I'm probably stupid. Break it down for a stupid person like myself.
     
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Nov 3, 2014, 10:45 PM
 
"less and less acceptable"? Must be why GTA:V broke so many sales records. I don't play it, or even allow it in my home, but Sarkessian is deluded if she thinks that strong masculine themes in games (or media as a whole) are on the decline.
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subego  (op)
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Nov 3, 2014, 11:30 PM
 
That was one of my potential responses... they are?

Which makes me think I'm not getting the point.
     
Laminar
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Nov 3, 2014, 11:41 PM
 
Here's how I took it - in the GTA games, women are most prominently featured as hookers to kill for a refund, strippers to pay for a lap dance, girlfriends to conquer for an achievement, or a damsel in distress to be saved. They exist elsewhere but not as prominently.
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 4, 2014, 12:37 AM
 
That is an accurate assessment.
     
 
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