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Donald Trump, 45th President of the United States of America: The Drinking Thread (Page 6)
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OAW
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Mar 1, 2017, 04:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Again, I'm impressed he mentioned it on that big a stage.
Personally I wouldn't use the word "impressed". You don't get points in my book for showing basic human decency. More like I was "pleasantly surprised" that he did the right thing instead of catering to the more "alt-right" members among his supporters by not mentioning it at all. Especially with Bannon on his team. That being said, had those Jewish cemeteries not been vandalized on such a large scale along with the 100+ bomb threats at Jewish community centers in 2017 ... I would bet money that he wouldn't have mentioned the shooting by that racist redneck in MO.

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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 4, 2017, 05:38 PM
 


*shot*
     
Waragainstsleep
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Mar 4, 2017, 09:08 PM
 
He's complaining that a foreign ambassador visited the president? What a ****ing dumbass.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Mar 4, 2017, 09:23 PM
 
Even for him those come off as unhinged.
     
subego
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Mar 4, 2017, 09:29 PM
 
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OldManMac
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Mar 5, 2017, 01:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post


*shot*
A FISA court judge has to have probable cause to issue a wiretap warrant, so if his phones are being tapped, then he's likely to be committing a crime, and if his phones are tapped, he just broke the law revealing it, because those are secret orders. What an utter ass! More scaremongering, to keep his gullible and uneducated, low information, supporters off track while the boys in the backroom do all the dirty dealing. Being the malignant narcissist and sociopath that he is, he should flip out relatively soon, so the impeachment and removal can get started. America Über Alles, right?
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 5, 2017, 01:53 AM
 
     
subego
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Mar 5, 2017, 12:05 PM
 
Never even heard of the book until now.

I gather whatever can be said for the book, it's well written, which no doubt bears some responsibility for its popularity.

It's hard to tell how much is racism and how much is classism.
     
subego
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Mar 5, 2017, 12:30 PM
 
So, the WH isn't commenting on the wiretap because it's an ongoing investigation.

I get a "let's just use those words everybody else uses and see if people buy it" vibe.
     
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Mar 5, 2017, 12:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Never even heard of the book until now.

I gather whatever can be said for the book, it's well written, which no doubt bears some responsibility for its popularity.

It's hard to tell how much is racism and how much is classism.
I guess he could have used Mark Twain's work, that would have been so much worse.
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subego
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Mar 5, 2017, 02:12 PM
 
Well, it sounds like this book is trying to poke a stick at a more difficult question.
     
Laminar
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Mar 6, 2017, 12:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
Being the malignant narcissist and sociopath that he is, he should flip out relatively soon, so the impeachment and removal can get started.
Do you think this kind of thing furthers productive discussion?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 7, 2017, 01:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Never even heard of the book until now.

I gather whatever can be said for the book, it's well written, which no doubt bears some responsibility for its popularity.

It's hard to tell how much is racism and how much is classism.
Which of the two would you say this admin is more concerned by?
     
andi*pandi
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Mar 7, 2017, 01:47 PM
 
haven't read the book but will assume there's something in there about liberal elites?

( Last edited by andi*pandi; Mar 7, 2017 at 02:06 PM. )
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 7, 2017, 01:57 PM
 
Lol, looks be the gif but not sure what it's in reference to
     
subego
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Mar 7, 2017, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Which of the two would you say this admin is more concerned by?
I'm not sure I understand the question.

I think Trump is far more classist than he is racist, despite the narrative jerk being in the opposite direction.

Because of my displeasure with the narrative jerk on Trump, I'm approaching Bannon's with caution.

I have to note here, I'm not questioning whether Trump or Bannon are loathsome people. I'm arguing the precise manner of loathsome is relevant because that's the target which needs to get hit.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 7, 2017, 02:39 PM
 
I'm asking whether the actions of this administration would be more aptly labeled classist or racist.
     
subego
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Mar 7, 2017, 02:57 PM
 
Classist.

Cracking down on illegal immigration is classist, as is appointing billionaire executives to his cabinet, diddling with Obamacare, and playing tons of golf
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 7, 2017, 03:00 PM
 
Muslim ban, removing oversight of police, withdrawing from voting rights lawsuits, moving to enforce drug laws?
     
subego
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Mar 7, 2017, 06:09 PM
 
I'll grant the cop thing.

The Muslim ban is pretty incoherent, drug law enforcement could mean anything, and voter ID is partyist.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 7, 2017, 06:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Cracking down on illegal immigration is classist,
This like a few of the others, can go either way.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
as is appointing billionaire executives to his cabinet, diddling with Obamacare
Given

Originally Posted by subego View Post
and playing tons of golf
Oh christ, every president plays golf.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
The Muslim ban is pretty incoherent
Be a dumb racist doesn't make one less racist. It's got Bannon and Millers fingerprints all over it.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
drug law enforcement could mean anything
That's rather naive. You know who drug laws affect disproportionately.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
and voter ID is partyist.
That doesn't change it being racist.
     
subego
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Mar 8, 2017, 10:43 AM
 
The golf was a joke.

I made the point about pot in the Sessions' thread. State law is how drug policy gets used against minorities.

When it comes to the Muslim ban, what makes it not racist is it doesn't apply to Saudis, and a bunch of other Muslim countries.

With the IDs, the race of the people affected is irrelevant. I'd say that does change the racism profile.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 8, 2017, 11:43 AM
 
Good post, I'll have to address it on a real keyboard tho
     
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Mar 8, 2017, 12:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Do you think this kind of thing furthers productive discussion?
It's the elephant in the room, that everyone wants to pretend isn't there. There are several prominent psychotherapists who have said so, and I know one very well. my ex, who agrees. It's an incurable illness, and a narcissist like him will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, admit they're wrong.They use people for their means, and destroy people when they get in the way. There are two main reasons he ran in the first place; to bolster his insatiable ego, with the word "President" on his resume, and to use the office of the presidency to bolster his business connections. That's it. He speaks at a fifth grade level, and now it's coming out that he also reads at that level.

Any one who thinks that donald trump cares about them is naive at best, and an utter fool if they keep believing, due to what's readily available to see him as.

He is, IN FACT, mentally unstable, and he's being played by the Republicans, and Steve Bannon, to get their objectives accomplished, just like he played tens of millions to get in the White House. History is replete with examples of populations that were conned into believing what they wanted to believe, to achieve some murderous thug's goals.

I came from such a country in 1953, when my parents emigrated to the U S. Although the circumstances weren't exactly the same, those people were conned into believing their economy was a shambles because of a certain ethnic group. Six million were gassed, along with left handed people, homosexuals, gypsies, people of color, and anyone else who wasn't "pure" Aryan! My father marched in the German Army, into Russia, and what he saw affected him until his dying day!

When I was put into first grade, a few weeks after arriving, we had air raid drills, because the scare then was communism. Even then I thought it utterly stupid to think that a desk was going to save me from a bomb, but we had to play along. Communism remained a scare until the mid 70s, when we got our asses handed to us in Vietnam, despite the French warning us not to go there.

The scare du jour now is the Muslims, whom simple minded people that know nothing about them have painted as a barbaric, murderous culture, because some one on Fox News told them to. Never mind the fact that an American is more likely to get killed by his own lawn mower, or by a toddler picking up a loose gun, and that right wing white "Christian" radicals kill more Americans every year than Muslims do; uneducated people need someone else to be afraid of, as they wander blissfully unaware through life, never being afraid to show the rest of the world how much they know, but how little they really understand!
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Mar 8, 2017, 02:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Classist.

Cracking down on illegal immigration is classist, as is appointing billionaire executives to his cabinet, diddling with Obamacare, and playing tons of golf
It may shock some, but I agree. However, there's been so much classism from the other direction for so long (against the "1%"), any amount going the other way is going to feel more pronounced.
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Mar 10, 2017, 11:24 AM
 
Donald needs to have some of his events at places that don't have his name on them. Just to even out the distribution of his fame, the perception of favor-gathering, and the opportunity for rubbernecking. Or he should even dine quietly behind a screen at a small chinese restaurant like the Bush family did, discreetly without fuss.

https://consumerist.com/2017/03/09/d...r-competition/
     
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Mar 10, 2017, 11:29 AM
 
Those days are gone. Obama set the bar as the first "rock star" president, making practically everything a media event while he pontificates to the crowds. I'm sick of seeing that red-faced orangutan, but it is what it is.
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Mar 10, 2017, 11:38 AM
 
Yes, but Obama didn't have his events all at places that he owned, feathering his own nest at the same time. It's not the rock star bit that I mind, so much, sure that's the 24-news-cycle modern world... but come on, he's soaking all this money in from the presidential name and fame. Take the crew to some other fancy restaurant. If he's for "the little guy" he shouldn't be putting smaller restaurants out of business.
     
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Mar 10, 2017, 11:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Those days are gone. Obama set the bar as the first "rock star" president, making practically everything a media event while he pontificates to the crowds.
Presidential News Conferences

Looking for your citation.
     
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Mar 10, 2017, 05:59 PM
 
And Trump continues to insult the intelligence of all but is most stupid and/or willfully blind supporters.

The unemployment numbers candidate Donald Trump assailed for months on the campaign trail as "phony" and fictional are suddenly up to snuff.

The numbers haven't changed, nor has the Bureau of Labor Statistics' methodology for compiling them, but with the jobless rate ticking down and hiring on the rise, Trump is eager to point to the economic indicators as a sign that his presidency has been a boon for the economy.

"I talked to the President prior to this and he said to quote him very clearly: 'They may have been phony in the past, but it's very real now,' " Spicer said Friday from the White House podium, hours after the government announced 235,000 new jobs in February and a dip in the unemployment rate to 4.7% from 4.8%.


Spicer's response prompted inevitable laughter in a room of reporters mindful of Trump's repeated smear of government-compiled jobs numbers.

"Don't believe these phony numbers when you hear 4.9 (%) and 5% unemployment," Trump told his supporters after winning the New Hampshire primary in early 2016. "The number's probably 28, 29, as high as 35. In fact, I even heard recently 42%."

In other instances, Trump suggested the unemployment number could be anywhere between 18% and 42%, calling the official number everything from "total fiction" to "one of the biggest hoaxes in American modern politics."


The refrain was a familiar one for Trump, who continued to cast doubt on the monthly unemployment figure throughout his campaign -- likely because the downward-trending stat signaled an economy on the upswing under President Barack Obama, whom Trump lampooned daily as ineffective on the stump.
Trump held up little evidence on the campaign to back up his suggestion that the unemployment numbers were "phony," other than to claim that his rallies would not be so well-attended if the unemployment number was really just around 5%.

But Trump's mistrust of the unemployment figure went deeper than cautious skepticism.

That's because Trump also ascribed a motive, suggesting -- without evidence -- that the figures were being falsified to make Obama look like a more successful president.

All of that was gone Friday morning as the numbers were announced.
Unemployment numbers not 'phony' to Trump anymore - CNNPolitics.com

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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 10, 2017, 07:37 PM
 
Spicer's response prompted inevitable laughter in a room of reporters mindful of Trump's repeated smear of government-compiled jobs numbers.
This is the normalization of lying. There's nothing funny about this at all. The President lies in the most brazen manner and it doesn't matter. Just Trump bein' Trump!
     
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Mar 10, 2017, 10:45 PM
 
^^^

"But her EMAILS!!! Lock her up! Lock her up!"

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Mar 10, 2017, 11:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Yes, but Obama didn't have his events all at places that he owned, feathering his own nest at the same time. It's not the rock star bit that I mind, so much, sure that's the 24-news-cycle modern world... but come on, he's soaking all this money in from the presidential name and fame. Take the crew to some other fancy restaurant. If he's for "the little guy" he shouldn't be putting smaller restaurants out of business.
It's easier to guard and control a place you own. He's had more death threats since the election than Obama did during his first 4 years.
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Mar 10, 2017, 11:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Presidential News Conferences

Looking for your citation.
I noticed that they don't count addresses, just official conferences.
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Mar 10, 2017, 11:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
This is the normalization of lying. There's nothing funny about this at all. The President lies in the most brazen manner and it doesn't matter. Just Trump bein' Trump!
That's the point. The amount of control he has over the MSM, making them run around in circles, is damned impressive. Sure, the people who hate him will only hate him more, but he doesn't give a single shit what they think.
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Mar 11, 2017, 04:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It's easier to guard and control a place you own.
This is unmitigated bullshit. It's easier to guard an control a place that's easier to guard and control. If all else were equal, maybe there is a small advantage to you owning the facility, but if security was actually a concern, he would be at the White House or Camp David.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
He's had more death threats since the election than Obama did during his first 4 years.
Considering the according to the Secret Service, the rate of death threats against Obama were up over 400% compared to GWB, this sounds like a fabricated statistic. Do you have a credible citation for it?
     
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Mar 11, 2017, 12:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
This is unmitigated bullshit.
No it isn't, you're just trying to be inflamatory again, but failing because you've gone to the well too often for it to work anymore.

Do you have a credible citation for it?
Yep, but I can't be bothered to get it for you.
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Mar 11, 2017, 01:32 PM
 
I think we are in an era now where politicians don't even have to try hard to lie because it is so easy to get away with things. For example, Trump saying that his electoral college victory was the biggest since Reagan... Not egregious in severity, I will grant you, but just soooo lazy. Either he is lying to the public or an adviser lied to him and he repeated this.

Either way, obviously there wasn't much of an attempt to verify facts before saying this publicly. Why? Because it doesn't matter, there aren't really any consequences.
     
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Mar 12, 2017, 03:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No it isn't, you're just trying to be inflamatory again, but failing because you've gone to the well too often for it to work anymore.
The whole idea of it is just stupid. What does owning something have to do with making it easier to guard and protect?
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yep, but I can't be bothered to get it for you.
Ahhh, in other words, you are just making stuff up again. Ok. so long as we're all clear.
     
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Mar 12, 2017, 02:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
The whole idea of it is just stupid. What does owning something have to do with making it easier to guard and protect?
Because it's familiar ground and his own security knows all its strengths and weaknesses. Duh?

Ahhh, in other words, you are just making stuff up again. Ok. so long as we're all clear.
QQ
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Mar 12, 2017, 02:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I think we are in an era now where politicians don't even have to try hard to lie because it is so easy to get away with things. For example, Trump saying that his electoral college victory was the biggest since Reagan... Not egregious in severity, I will grant you, but just soooo lazy. Either he is lying to the public or an adviser lied to him and he repeated this.

Either way, obviously there wasn't much of an attempt to verify facts before saying this publicly. Why? Because it doesn't matter, there aren't really any consequences.
There are no consequences for a politician because the MSM itself lies so frequently.
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 12, 2017, 07:44 PM
 
Ok, on a keyboard: I'm gonna go over a few of these again, because some warrant more in depth discussion.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Cracking down on illegal immigration is classist
I could use some further explanation on this one as to how exactly. I've also seen it argued that illegal immigration is useful for the rich, thereby making it classist in both states. But, it's only racist in one.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
I made the point about pot in the Sessions' thread. State law is how drug policy gets used against minorities.
Looking at federal statistics, the vast majority of federal drug prisoners are non-white. I assume anyone Sessions targets will not be going to state jail.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
When it comes to the Muslim ban, what makes it not racist is it doesn't apply to Saudis, and a bunch of other Muslim countries.
This is absurd. It's the "I have a black friend" defense. I posit this: Is it easier to get a muslim ban enacted if you ban all countries or only a few countries?

If you want to get rid of all muslims, do you only take a binary position, or do you take what you can get?

Originally Posted by subego View Post
With the IDs, the race of the people affected is irrelevant. I'd say that does change the racism profile.
It wouldn't work if it didn't disproportionately impact one race. They are intrinsically linked.

Ok, let me approach this another way: Wouldn't the timing of the promulgation of these laws indicate racist intent?

---

Allow me to make my point another way: Including past GOP administrations of the last 30 years or so, where would you rank this one in terms of most overtly impacting or targeting people of color in the US?
     
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Mar 12, 2017, 09:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It's easier to guard and control a place you own.
Weak AF.



Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
He's had more death threats since the election than Obama did during his first 4 years.
This absolutely should be true. It almost certainly isn't. Though I'm sure Trump says it is.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
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Mar 13, 2017, 03:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I noticed that they don't count addresses, just official conferences.
Yes - you specifically mentioned that he turned everything into a media event, but the only source I could find was news conferences. I assume your source covered media events in total, which is why I was looking forward to reading it once you provided it.
     
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Mar 13, 2017, 06:34 PM
 
Well, he'd delivered 699 televised speeches using a teleprompter by Jan of 2013.
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Mar 14, 2017, 02:12 PM
 
Great! And how does that compare to other presidents?
     
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Mar 14, 2017, 02:58 PM
 
And also, CTP, do you think your neighborhood's average annual income being below poverty levels has anything to do with your support of Trump?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 14, 2017, 04:26 PM
 
My neighborhood's annual income isn't below the poverty level.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
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Mar 14, 2017, 04:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
My neighborhood's annual income isn't below the poverty level.
Well, I guess since I don't have to back anything up I can just say stuff?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 14, 2017, 04:39 PM
 
Did you ever actually plan on becoming a US citizen? I'm thinking "no", you just wanted people to start taking you seriously when talking about the election, for once.

Anyhow, you're going back in the bag, there's no need to talk with you.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
 
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