Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Gaming > Gaming News & Discussion

Gaming News & Discussion (Page 110)
Thread Tools
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2015, 12:32 PM
 
Remember when I said GTA Online content creator was the rebirth of Halo Forge? Some examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63JAE_1aqGI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SLcC7rhPMI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya7YHRUaxds
     
ajprice
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2015, 05:51 AM
 
PS4 1TB and PS4 Slim light Sony Is Making a Slightly Lighter PS4

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2015, 11:17 AM
 
I'm super-late to the E3 party. Was out of town without a connection again.

Originally Posted by P View Post
The original Doom was cartoonish violence. The more realistic it gets, the weirder it gets. That said, a lot of this is because it is Doom and we all knew what to expect beforehand. You can do some pretty gruesome things with a sword in something like Dragon Age, and that is never an issue.
Yeah, the atmosphere/personality of the old Doom games is officially a thing of the past now. It's a pity that they now fit nicely along every other modern, generic gore shooter.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Whoa, I missed some news last night. Last Guardian, Shenmue 3, FFVII, and a media player for PS4?
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
(it's already available apparently)

oh and Last Guardian (although im' not holding my breath this time).

Last Guardian E3 2015 (YouTube)

****it, looks like i'll be down $400 this month.
I've been prepared to laugh off any Last Guardian news, but watching the gameplay footage made me remember how great ICO and SotC were, and...now I'm excited again.

I'm an idiot.

Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
No ****ing release date for No Man's Sky.
Noooooooo kidding. I'm dying to play the game. The new details did nothing to dampen my enthusiasm. I need more info on how bounties for killing indigenous animals will affect the game though.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
The new supposedly Metroid Prime game for the Nintendo 3DS is.... fugly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=45&v=sGu3Xe1uUUg
The epitome of Nintendo's 2015 E3 showing. Horribly, horribly disappointing. I'm ready for the NX to get here and fail so Nintendo can become a software company. At least then I'll be able to play the games I love on actual modern hardware.

And yes, I'm aware they're never going to do this.

Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Yep. Yep. Yep yep yep yep yep yep.

http://i.imgur.com/eMYX2aE.gifv

If there's one game I'll definitely be buying for PC > PS4, JC3 will be it.

Originally Posted by Stogieman View Post
Oh boy! Oh boy! Oh boy!

This one is going to cause a personal dilemma for me.

Will the rest of the PS4 guys be picking up Battlefront, or is this a maybe?

I'm definitely getting the game, but I've got a decision to make as to which platform.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2015, 11:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Remember when I said GTA Online content creator was the rebirth of Halo Forge? Some examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63JAE_1aqGI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SLcC7rhPMI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya7YHRUaxds
That's pretty incredible, and definitely hilarious.

I'm not picking up the game, but those videos make me wish I was.
     
sek929
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2015, 03:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Will the rest of the PS4 guys be picking up Battlefront, or is this a maybe?
Even though I'm 100% positive the launch will be a complete shitshow, I'm definitely getting it.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2015, 03:54 PM
 
Yeah, ditto.
     
boy8cookie
Mac Elite
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll let you know when I get there...
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2015, 04:10 PM
 
Will also be getting it for PS4.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2015, 04:12 PM
 
This is the part where I mention squads are of two people.I have no idea how easy it'll be to party up on the same server, let alone team.
     
Stogieman
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2015, 04:19 PM
 
Why the hell are squads only 2 people? Is it technical/performance issue or is this just Dice being Dice?

Slick shoes?! Are you crazy?!
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2015, 04:24 PM
 
No idea. Just what I've heard.
     
Stogieman
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2015, 04:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by ajprice View Post
PS4 1TB and PS4 Slim light Sony Is Making a Slightly Lighter PS4
Sony just officially announced a new, lighter PS4. It weighs 2.5 kg, which is ten percent less than the current model. Also, the console uses eight percent less energy and has a matte hard bay cover.

I wish they would release a more energy efficient controller. The battery life on mine is shit.

Slick shoes?! Are you crazy?!
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2015, 04:28 PM
 
AT least add a hand crank so I can give it a quick charge when its on the verge of dying.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2015, 04:43 PM
 
Five-player squads and soldier classes are staples of DICE's Battlefield series. But in further evidence the developer is moving away from its Battlefield template for Battlefront, due out later this year, the studio confirmed to OXM (via GamesRadar) that players will be able to "freely" pick their weapons and gear.

So, no pre-made classes. You unlock items through normal experience point progression.

And instead of squads, Battlefront uses its Partners feature that lets two players play together. Here, the two players can see each other on their heads-up display and spawn on each other.

The interesting thing about this is Partners share unlocks. So, if you Partner with a player who is higher level than you, you can access their unlocked items without having unlocked them yourself.
dibsonfatty
     
sek929
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2015, 05:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Yeah, ditto.
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
Will also be getting it for PS4.
Holy crap, we're getting the band back together.

Originally Posted by Stogieman View Post
Sony just officially announced a new, lighter PS4. It weighs 2.5 kg, which is ten percent less than the current model. Also, the console uses eight percent less energy and has a matte hard bay cover.

I wish they would release a more energy efficient controller. The battery life on mine is shit.
Two f**king AAs in my 360 controller greatly outlasted these PS4 dealies.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
dibsonfatty
Unlock ALL the things for Fatty!
     
ajprice
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 23, 2015, 02:38 AM
 
I don't know if it makes any difference at all to battery life, but in Settings > Devices > Controllers on PS4 you can turn down the light bar brightness from 'blinding' to 'on' and speaker volume down to something sensible instead of shouting at deaf people loud.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 23, 2015, 04:44 AM
 
You'd think making a controller that runs on batteries would be a solved problem by now.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 23, 2015, 11:02 AM
 
Okay, it's settled then. At least 8 people on my friends list are getting it. No brainer.
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 23, 2015, 11:13 AM
 
Batman: Arkham Knight launches today, and the PC version is apparently utterly broken. To begin with there is a 30 fps lock, which every PC gamer I know detests with a passion, and users of cards as high as a 970 report severe stuttering even at 1080p. AMD cards have problems as well - to be expected with a Gameworks title, I guess - so it affects everyone. Caveat emptor until they fix it.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 23, 2015, 11:32 AM
 
Remember, that's why you never, ever, EVER pre-order games. It's the only way developers will learn that they can only ship viable products.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 23, 2015, 11:36 AM
 
I guess that's why they refused to send out review copies of the PC version. Shady, shady, shady.
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 23, 2015, 11:38 AM
 
That is a lesson I have learnt. I have an offer for 40% off if I preorder, and I was tempted, but I didn't. Now I'll probably pick it up on a sale this fall or something.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 23, 2015, 02:14 PM
 
Everyone on Reddit is saying, "The GOTY edition will be fixed, DLC will be free, and the cost will be $39.99. Why not wait?"

This argument could be applied to every single-player game in existence.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 23, 2015, 02:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
This argument could be applied to every single-player game in existence.
Yeah. Though its better applied to SP experiences. In fact, I wonder if there's a noticeable trend in SP initial sales being lower, but the tail being longer than MP games.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 23, 2015, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Yeah. Though its better applied to SP experiences. In fact, I wonder if there's a noticeable trend in SP initial sales being lower, but the tail being longer than MP games.
No specific NPD numbers mean we'll probably never know. It's got to be the case, but the severity will remain a question mark.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 23, 2015, 04:20 PM
 
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 23, 2015, 04:56 PM
 
WTF? Destiny: The Taken King director defends £40 expansion price tag • Eurogamer.net
Eurogamer: Final question on prices -

Luke Smith: Is it also the final question on the emotes?

Eurogamer: I'm not going to mention them again. I can't get them.

Luke Smith: But you can if you buy the Collector's Edition.

Eurogamer: I'm not going to buy the game and the two DLCs all over again.

Luke Smith: Okay, but first I want to poke at you on this a little bit.

Eurogamer: Poke at me?

Luke Smith: You're feeling anxious because you want this exclusive content but you don't know yet how much you want it. The notion of spending this money is making you anxious, I can see it -

Eurogamer: I do want them. I would buy them -

Luke Smith: If I fired up a video right now and showed you the emotes you would throw money at the screen.

Eurogamer: What I'm saying is that fan frustration is not because they don't understand the proposition. It comes regardless of how cool the exclusive content is. The frustration - and mine as a fan - is that the method of acquiring it requires me to re-buy content I bought a year ago.

Luke Smith: [Long pause] It's about value. The player's assessment of the value of the content.
     
sek929
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 23, 2015, 05:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Lulz

"We knew you'd want this shit so bad we basically realized you'd pay anything for it"
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 23, 2015, 07:02 PM
 
For three new emotes? I don't think people are that crazy. I also heard the collector's edition was temporarily sold out (lulz). I also don't wonder if they see this as a chance to goose their sales numbers.

The arrogance is just galling though. If anything, those emotes should be for people who have been with the game since the beginning and have all the DLC. Those are you bread and butter, idiots.

Anyway, maybe the short answer is... Activision.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2015, 09:48 AM
 
The pricing has to be Activision, but Luke Smith is a certified cretin.

I was first introduced to his work when he was a snarky journalist at 1UP. His shtick was a lot less grating when he wasn't working for the other guys, but he was always a d-bag.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2015, 10:39 AM
 
Driveclub PlayStation Plus Edition launches tomorrow - NeoGAF

Watch the US edition get delayed by two weeks because they need to stabilize servers after this.
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2015, 11:55 AM
 
Batman user reviews are now so bad that the game has dropped off the front page rotation on Steam, and GMG is offering refunds to everyone who bought it. GMG has been pushing it hard, with 40% off (from a too high $60 price, but still), so I can imagine that those two sellers account for a very large percentage of the PC copies sold.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2015, 02:27 PM
 
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2015, 02:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Just watched it. Looks pretty amazing.
     
mattyb
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Standing on the shoulders of giants
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2015, 06:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
**** yeah.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 04:03 AM
 
Hah!

'Batman: Arkham Knight' for PCs pulled because of glitches

The number of refunds issued actually ended up costing them money, more than if they'd not issued it at all. So yeah, now that we can refund, go ahead and pre-order all you want, now that Steam has refunds we can hurt any PC game dev who tries to screw players (which I didn't think could happen, given how complacent some gamers are, but I'm glad to say I was wrong).
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 04:20 AM
 
This is the best news in a long time for PC gaming. I hope that this teaches them a lesson or three.

I wonder who ported it. It's clear from the comments that it was not internal WB nor Rocksteady.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 07:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
The pricing has to be Activision, but Luke Smith is a certified cretin.

I was first introduced to his work when he was a snarky journalist at 1UP. His shtick was a lot less grating when he wasn't working for the other guys, but he was always a d-bag.
Bungie has backed down, the extra emotes and whatnot will sold separately - another $20, so not much of a backing down - but the best part is this:

"Reading my interview with Eurogamer and imagining it came from some random developer of a game I love — that random developer looks like an Asshat," Smith wrote. "But that Asshat was me — and those words rightfully anger you."

"I'm sorry."
The reason you look like that is... well... do you have a mirror nearby? And a chair? You might want to sit down for this.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 10:54 AM
 
Driveclub up for PS+ users
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 10:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
The number of refunds issued actually ended up costing them money, more than if they'd not issued it at all.
How does that work?
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 11:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Bungie has backed down, the extra emotes and whatnot will sold separately - another $20, so not much of a backing down - but the best part is this...
That was a weird semi-deflection apology, wasn't it?
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 11:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
How does that work?
Usually the retailer (Steam or GMG or whatever) keeps its cut after a refund. Apple keeps the entire cut if the cost of an app is refunded. We don't know what Steam's agreement is, but I'm sure they keep some money for their troubles.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 11:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Usually the retailer (Steam or GMG or whatever) keeps its cut after a refund.
Oh ho ho! That is hilarious then. They could get paid twice (in the future)
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 11:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Driveclub up for PS+ users
I'll download it tonight and try it out tomorrow.

At this stage, I'm a lot more interested in Project Cars.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 12:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
The number of refunds issued actually ended up costing them money, more than if they'd not issued it at all. So yeah, now that we can refund, go ahead and pre-order all you want, now that Steam has refunds we can hurt any PC game dev who tries to screw players (which I didn't think could happen, given how complacent some gamers are, but I'm glad to say I was wrong).
Which brings up another question: how many publishers will simply refuse to accept the risk of a shoddy port refund storm, and refuse to bring the titles to PC at all?

This could backfire a bit.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 12:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Which brings up another question: how many publishers will simply refuse to accept the risk of a shoddy port refund storm, and refuse to bring the titles to PC at all?
But consoles are dying, breh

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
This could backfire a bit.
They'll just amend their contracts with Steam and such so they don't take the hit.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 03:50 PM
 




     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 03:59 PM
 
Things are escalating
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 04:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
They'll just amend their contracts with Steam and such so they don't take the hit.
Steam might have to ditch the refund policy, or at least limit it for certain games.

I wonder if they'll put up a little icon, "refunds not accepted for this game". Would be a nice warning label.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 08:16 PM
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ2wGmsdHBs

TB is spot-on, as usual. (Good Fury X analysis too).

Speaking of the latter, as a tester, not a hardware reviewer/critic, I don't have to give info or my thoughts regarding beta hardware that I test, at least not to the public, but I am working on a light review-like thing of the Fury X that I'll publish soon. The state of it is not nearly as bad as some sites claim, and if I had to sum up a one line blurb to describe it it's, "a 2016 GPU, sold in 2015".
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2015, 08:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Which brings up another question: how many publishers will simply refuse to accept the risk of a shoddy port refund storm, and refuse to bring the titles to PC at all?

This could backfire a bit.
If it means fewer broken or buggy-as-all-hell games, then that's fine. My Steam library is already at a state where I may never catch up with playing half of what I've purchased.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Oh ho ho! That is hilarious then. They could get paid twice (in the future)
Yeah, it's not Steam's fault that the game is broken and sucks balls, they fulfilled their obligations to WB and their customers (and then some).
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:05 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,