[lizardgator]

I'm at an Apple Store now typing on the new 24" iMac. None of the photos I've seen do it justice, in person it is absolutely gorgeous! The keyboard is also fantastic, much better quality than the old keyboard! Even though the keyboard is very thin it has a substantial heft and quality feeling. The display is amazing, everything about the iMac I'm typing on right now exudes elegance and quality.

[MindFad]

It is rather impressive, I'll say. Kinda reminds me of a big iPhone. There's some iPhone spirit there, I can sense it.

[bluedog]

OK, here's my take on it. Yes it matches the iphone, but why did they decide to put glass over the LCD? Same as a the iPhone maybe to make it easier to touch/clean?

Who is with me on guessing they have the touch sensistivity built-in and will ask people who got these to pony up the $130 for Leopard when its released that will secretly unlock their touchscreens!

They did it with the AirportExtreme 802.11n chips in the recent machines. Its a big incentive to purchase Leopard and it gives immediate response to make them feel good about purchasing before Leopard was released.

[Kenneth]

I haven't checked it out in store, but judging from the pictures, I know it will look great.

[Faust]

It does look fantastic. Too bad they are useless to me as I prefer working with either a Mac Pro for heavy duties and a Macbook Pro for writing and other, more lightweight stuff. Crickey, those new iMacs are attractive bitches I must admit.

[wolfen]

Yes. Yes they are. I was worried about the 3D graphics...and then I realized I don't care. WoW is as intense a 3D app as I have. And since I could play it on my Ti 1ghz, I knew any new iMac would kick the living crap out of that performance. This will be fine for the next 4-5 years.

Not to mention I have to put the brightness at its lowest setting for fear of my eyeballs getting a tan.

Only 2 criticisms are really valid as far as I can see. The screen is glossy. Not a prob if your machine faces a wall like mine. The second is the power cord...it's way too short.


post created on a 2.4/2GB/24" iMac

[Aegis]

I think it's a pretty good look overall. Though I find the new black apple logo to be a bit of a distraction though. Perhaps it just takes a little getting used to.

[rnicoll]

I'm a bit disappointed by graphics, as I do game a lot (I'm eying one to replace my desktop system, which is currently a PC with a Nvidia 7950 GT pre-OCed card), and particularly as I'm looking at the 24" model with its massive display resolution, but they should be _okay_. Particularly if I run games at half-resolution (hoping that's feasible, fractional resolutions would look terrible)...

[CadetStimpy]

Originally Posted by rnicoll 

I'm a bit disappointed by graphics, as I do game a lot (I'm eying one to replace my desktop system, which is currently a PC with a Nvidia 7950 GT pre-OCed card), and particularly as I'm looking at the 24" model with its massive display resolution, but they should be _okay_. Particularly if I run games at half-resolution (hoping that's feasible, fractional resolutions would look terrible)...

What games do you play? You might be surprised how well it would run them. I have (what was the latest) 20" iMac, with ATI x1600/128 graphics, and it plays everything from WoW to UT2004 wonderfully. See if they'll give you a test drive at your local Apple Store. They're usually very receptive to doing that at ours.

[besson3c]

If I had such a machine I wouldn't use the Apple keyboard with it. The extra keys and number pad are quite useful.

[jbleisure]

I just saw the new iMac in the store when I went in to pick p iLife 08. Man, I have to say it is a huge dissappointment to me. The glossy screen is terrible, it will be great watching dvds in a darkened room but for working on, forget it. But the biggest shock was the over all design, I really didn't like it, the black apple sign doesn't work for me neither do these things: no sleep light, black line surround...Oh boy what a terrible machine..but if you've come from working on a Dell I bet you'll love it.

[zerock]

hmm i'm planning on getting the 2.8GHz one, to last long time hopefully

[Judge_Fire]

It looks like Europe in the 80s.

Bang & Olufsen, Gaggenau, bleurgh - the plastic whiteness of iBooks, iMacs and MacBooks was a breath of fresh air, but of course that gets old, too. I was hoping for something more contemporary, along the lines of the all metal Mac Pro, something less pronounced.

Then again, I haven't seen it live, so perhaps this gut reaction was unwarranted

[rubaiyat]

Originally Posted by jbleisure 

I just saw the new iMac in the store when I went in to pick p iLife 08. Man, I have to say it is a huge dissappointment to me. The glossy screen is terrible, it will be great watching dvds in a darkened room but for working on, forget it. But the biggest shock was the over all design, I really didn't like it, the black apple sign doesn't work for me neither do these things: no sleep light, black line surround...Oh boy what a terrible machine..but if you've come from working on a Dell I bet you'll love it.

Exactly my experience.

It sort of doesn't fit together, with odd contrasts and a white plastic mouse left over from the previous models.

Functionally that awful reflective screen is a killer, as is the oddball keyboard layout (I do like its flatness) which unfortunately eliminates the F-keys I use in my day to day software.

Sorry this one gets a pass.

Steve, why are you targetting us designers? So many left for the darkside the last time you had a go at us. Are you trying to finally get rid of us?

[JKT]

Originally Posted by rubaiyat 

...which unfortunately eliminates the F-keys I use in my day to day software.

Er.. no it doesn't. That is what the fn key is for (and you can invert the action of the fn key so that they behave as F keys by default, or as the "media" keys by default).

[rubaiyat]

Besides eliminating the Help key and rearranging the keys (not much point in remembering where they are anymore is there?) you now have to use 2 hands to do what took one finger before.

I don't how many times users will be accidentally jabbing the eject key.

Consistency is so overrated, it seems, and sadly so is any attempts at productivity these days.

btw I have difficulty both reading and discerning what the symbols on the keys are and mean. Is the F4 key also the shutdown key?

[Cadaver]

While I do love my Mac Pro and 30" display, their sheer behemoth sizes are beginning to use valuable desk space. A new 24" iMac all loaded up would be a great alternative, I'm thinking.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

If I had such a machine I wouldn't use the Apple keyboard with it. The extra keys and number pad are quite useful.

The keyboard that comes with the new iMac is complete; all the way out to F19, a "clear" key, full numeric pad (I LOVE the '=' key on it!), cursor keys, page up and down, and everything. Are you talking about still other keys?

[wbeem]

I picked up my 24" iMac yesterday, and I'm on the side of those who are pleased and impressed. The screen is gorgeous. Although it definitely showed a lot of glare in the Apple Store with all those overhead fluorescent lights, it's fine at my home. I don't have any issues with glare whether the lights are on, off, or the sun shines in from the Window. Had I been given a choice, I wouldn't have even thought about getting a glossy screen. Now that I have it, I've gotta say that it doesn't suck. Colors are bright, crisp, clean, sharp, and a plethora of other adjectives.

The keyboard is really my big surprise. I figured I'd hate it, but I really like this thing. It's definitely going to be a lot easier to clean than the old model.

I was waiting for the new model release to decide whether to upgrade from my old iMac G5 or just get a 30" Cinema Screen for my MacBook Pro to use for photo editing. I'm glad I went this way. That 30" monitor definitely would chew up a lot of desk space.

[experimental]

I've been on the G5 iMacs since the first. The very first, with LCD white lines and lawn blower fans! The i-sight 2.1Ghz fixed all that and its been a steady, reliable dream machine ever since.
....... and it is 2 years since then, and as one does, I'd been eyeing the 24 inch for a future possible purchase (inevitable more like). I was happy to see the glass on the new model, for movies and photos, but since I do graphics every day I'll sadly have to pass on it, and think about what to do. You see, the white imac G5 has a subtle apple logo and uniform lcd surround. It does reflect light from the shiny clear over white acrylic, but as long as you face a wall and don't point it towards the ceiling lighting, its not all that much intrusive. This said, the new appearance seems to throw all this aesthetic out the window. Shine on you crazy diamond! With a big black logo to keep you transfixed to boot. It looks a lot like a sony LCD wide screen, with that black and silver surround appearance. I think I'll upgrade to a pro system?! What an excuse .

[Jasoco]

I don't how many times users will be accidentally jabbing the eject key.

You still need to hold it down anyway.

btw I have difficulty both reading and discerning what the symbols on the keys are and mean. Is the F4 key also the shutdown key?

No. It's a Dashboard icon. Yeah, I'm disappointed too.

[JKT]

Originally Posted by rubaiyat 

Besides eliminating the Help key and rearranging the keys (not much point in remembering where they are anymore is there?) you now have to use 2 hands to do what took one finger before.

Erm, no. All you need to do is toggle the way in which the fn key works in Sys Prefs, the same as you do on a laptop keyboard - either have them function as F keys by default (and media keys with fn) or media keys by default (and F keys with fn):



Given that the order of the keys didn't exist beforehand as none of the F keys had any media functions on the old keyboard, this is not changing anything. If you want F9 to F11 to remain as Exposé keys, just toggle the fn setting and assign them that way.

[Veltliner]

Mediocre design, glossy screen, sub-par gpu...

Nothing to be excited about.

Let's hope for a redesign soon.

An iMac, completely black or white or aluminum, matte screen or glossy to choose from, and a decent graphics card.

[Andhee]

Originally Posted by Aegis 

Though I find the new black apple logo to be a bit of a distraction though. Perhaps it just takes a little getting used to.

Its not a distraction, its just a subtle reminder that you have bought a quality machine from a quality company

Originally Posted by Veltliner

Mediocre design, glossy screen, sub-par gpu...

Nothing to be excited about.

Let's hope for a redesign soon.

An iMac, completely black or white or aluminum, matte screen or glossy to choose from, and a decent graphics card.

Why would they redesign it when it's selling like mad, and also, the majority of users arn't hardcore gamers that are bothered about 3fps less than the old model. They changed it for a reason, probably to make the OS run smoother, its not like they chose it randomly, there is a reason behind it, thats my verdict anyway.

Alot of people like the new iMac's looks because it looks more professional and less like a kids toy.

Also, I think Apple are trying to get rid of the "Apple computers are made for developers" statement that usually goes with there name, and they are trying to appeal to more people other than graphic designers, hence the use of the glossy screen. Developers should be using the higher spec'd Mac Pro over the iMac, as it is more of a home use machine, with the occasional game if needs be.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Andhee 

Its not a distraction, its just a subtle reminder that you have bought a quality machine from a quality company



Why would they redesign it when it's selling like mad, and also, the majority of users arn't hardcore gamers that are bothered about 3fps less than the old model. They changed it for a reason, probably to make the OS run smoother, its not like they chose it randomly, there is a reason behind it, thats my verdict anyway.

Alot of people like the new iMac's looks because it looks more professional and less like a kids toy.

Also, I think Apple are trying to get rid of the "Apple computers are made for developers" statement that usually goes with there name, and they are trying to appeal to more people other than graphic designers, hence the use of the glossy screen. Developers should be using the higher spec'd Mac Pro over the iMac, as it is more of a home use machine, with the occasional game if needs be.

Bravo! You have been elected Apple customer of the month!

[Andhee]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

Bravo! You have been elected Apple customer of the month!

Woohoo!

[D.O.G.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by Andhee 

Its not a distraction, its just a subtle reminder that you have bought a quality machine from a quality company

Sure. Just like rattles on a chrysler product aren't defects, they're just reminders you're supporting American companies.

Why would they redesign it when it's selling like mad, and also, the majority of users arn't hardcore gamers that are bothered about 3fps less than the old model.

That's just it: IT IS NOT 3FPS.

iMac Aluminum versus Others





It's literally over TWICE as fast in Halo and quake 4, and a huge chunk faster in most every single other game, excluding PREY.

They changed it for a reason, probably to make the OS run smoother, its not like they chose it randomly, there is a reason behind it, thats my verdict anyway.

In other threads, people have posted specs by MacBench. Even quartz runs SLOWER on the new models, so no, the OS does not run smoother. OpenGL is laughable, the old one is MUCH MUCH faster. And yes, they did do it for a reason: TO SAVE MONEY. They put in a low-end graphics card that is already outdated in a new machine, and try to convince people it's an upgrade.

[ghporter]

Ok, benchmarks say the new iMac is slower in rendering game video. OTHER THAN THAT, I don't see anything to not like about it (and let's leave the whole "glossy screen" thing in the existing thread, shall we?). Since I don't play any games on my computers except the occasional solitaire hand, this is a trifle-and one I think may be addressed with updated drivers in the near future.

[Andhee]

I was also taking into account leopard when I did that post D.O.G.S CEO btw, so I suggest we wait for leopard and then recieve some new bench marks of certain items within leopard. As ghporter said, I don't see anything wrong with this video card, as the average user wouldn't care, and Apple are trying to make an affordable machine for normal computer users. I think it makes sense that if youre wanting to play hardcore games, you should be getting a PRO machine, as the iMac is designed for normal computer usage, nothing extensive.


Oh yeah and also, why would they release a machine that would become outdated as soon as the new OS comes out, the graphics card is most probably chosen to benefit leopard users to improve usability.

[D.O.G.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by Andhee 

I was also taking into account leopard when I did that post D.O.G.S CEO btw, so I suggest we wait for leopard and then recieve some new bench marks of certain items within leopard. As ghporter said, I don't see anything wrong with this video card, as the average user wouldn't care, and Apple are trying to make an affordable machine for normal computer users. I think it makes sense that if youre wanting to play hardcore games, you should be getting a PRO machine, as the iMac is designed for normal computer usage, nothing extensive.

I don't want to play hardcore games. I'd just like them to be an improvement over the LAST model. And no, I shouldn't be getting a PRO machine. Pro machines are huge, cost a ton of cash, and they are for PROFESSIONAL users. Gamers, on the other hand, are not PRO users. They are generally consumers. When some of my diehard PC friends saw how well my 24" iMac with 7600GT played games on it's huge screen, they wanted one. Now, not so much. This thing could get stomped by an emachines with a $100 graphics card thrown in it.

Oh yeah and also, why would they release a machine that would become outdated as soon as the new OS comes out, the graphics card is most probably chosen to benefit leopard users to improve usability.

Not bloody likely.

[analogika]

I really don't see the issue, considering that they just lowered prices by a couple of hundred dollars across the board.

That *is* an improvement.

Nobody is disputing that gaming is a weakness of the Mac platform. It's also never been a priority of the Mac customer base since the late 80s.

I hope we'll see this change over time, but AT THE MOMENT, Apple is doing better than ever selling to their existing market, rather than trying to break into an entirely new market segment that puts them at the mercy of

a) third-party software companies (and we all know how often dependency upon 3rd parties has given Apple the royal ass-reaming), and

b) complete geeks, a good portion of whom won't buy a machine AT ALL that they cannot completely overhaul every single part of over the course of the next two years, and which Apple will NEVER build - ever.

The casual gamer is fine with what's in the iMac. The OMG SERIOUS gamer is probably either the freak mentioned in b) above or owns a gaming console anyway.

The people in between might just not warrant Apple breaking the mold until the software companies follow through on the promise they already broke once six years ago.

[rnicoll]

Originally Posted by Andhee 

Developers should be using the higher spec'd Mac Pro over the iMac, as it is more of a home use machine, with the occasional game if needs be.

What on earth for? We host several hundred users on servers less powerful than a Mac Pro, for most developers it would be like using a sledgehammer to swat flies..

[rnicoll]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Nobody is disputing that gaming is a weakness of the Mac platform. It's also never been a priority of the Mac customer base since the late 80s.

And when id Software stop doing cutting edge tech demos at WWDC, I will stop bemoaning the fact that the top of the range iMac has a graphics card that is essentially a joke for a screen that big. A 2.8 Ghz Core2Duo Extreme is not a standard consumer model processor, pairing it with a X2600 Pro is like.. well, I'm lacking metaphor right now, but a little crazy...

I'm desperately hoping it's part of Apple's masterplan to release a gaming Mac Pro with a single Core2Duo, and a 8800 or X2800 as an option, at around the price of the top of the line iMac...

[AC Rempt]

Well, seeing as I can't find a 24" iMac in San Diego right now, I would say they are doing all right. Oy. I may actually have to order online for the first time in years.

[D.O.G.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by rnicoll 

And when id Software stop doing cutting edge tech demos at WWDC, I will stop bemoaning the fact that the top of the range iMac has a graphics card that is essentially a joke for a screen that big. A 2.8 Ghz Core2Duo Extreme is not a standard consumer model processor, pairing it with a X2600 Pro is like.. well, I'm lacking metaphor right now, but a little crazy...

A supercharged v8 with bias ply 195/55/15 size tires.

A ferrari with a cavalier engine.

A huge hammer head with a handle that's too short to use.

20oz of soda in a 10 oz glass.

[rnicoll]

Originally Posted by AC Rempt 

Well, seeing as I can't find a 24" iMac in San Diego right now, I would say they are doing all right. Oy. I may actually have to order online for the first time in years.

Oh, I think the iMac 24" is a brilliant machine, and they'll sell loads. I'm mostly just annoyed that they seem to be pushing for Mac games, while not actually providing half-decent gaming hardware to match, and I fail to see why it would be such a problem for them to stick a decent graphics card in the iMac, even if just as an upgrade option...

[villalobos]

It looks pretty good, but I could not go pass the glossiness... It was awful in the Apple Store. Better use this in a dark room.

[AC Rempt]

Originally Posted by D.O.G.S. CEO 

I don't want to play hardcore games. I'd just like them to be an improvement over the LAST model. And no, I shouldn't be getting a PRO machine. Pro machines are huge, cost a ton of cash, and they are for PROFESSIONAL users. Gamers, on the other hand, are not PRO users. They are generally consumers.

Hardcore gamers demand more from their machines that pros do, by and large. The gamers I know, and just to muddy the waters even more, this includes professional gamers, want the latest and greatest. For instance, SLI is big in the gamer market, but doesn't have much play in the pro market.

And for pros, I'm talking illustrators, photographers and video artists.

In the end, I think comparing the two is apples and oranges (forgive the pun).

[Kar98]

Originally Posted by jbleisure 

I just saw the new iMac in the store ...Oh boy what a terrible machine..but if you've come from working on a Dell I bet you'll love it.

Funny you should say that:



Note: check URL of the image above.

[rnicoll]

Originally Posted by AC Rempt 

Hardcore gamers demand more from their machines that pros do, by and large. The gamers I know, and just to muddy the waters even more, this includes professional gamers, want the latest and greatest. For instance, SLI is big in the gamer market, but doesn't have much play in the pro market.

And for pros, I'm talking illustrators, photographers and video artists.

In the end, I think comparing the two is apples and oranges (forgive the pun).

Okay, but that's like saying "Anyone who wants more than reading e-mail and slowly surfing web pages should buy a Mac Pro". The iMac 24" will not play pretty much any game coming out this year, at native resolution, usefully. The gap between the an X2600 Pro and the sort of high-end gaming rigs you're talking about is like comparing a Mac Mini to a Mac Pro.

I don't want Apple to stick two overclocked X2800 GTXYZ Turbo Ultra Zoom cards into an iMac, I want them to offer something like a Nvidia 8800 GTS (think that's the basic 8800 card), which shouldn't even require significantly more cooling (the ATi cards run significantly hotter than their Nvidia counterparts, this generation).

Edit: Or a Mac Pro with a single Core 2 Duo chip. 99% of stuff I run is single threaded, having quad Xeon cores is such a dramatic waste I can't begin to describe it. Dual cores is still a waste, but at least should give me better OS responsiveness.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by rnicoll 

And when id Software stop doing cutting edge tech demos at WWDC, I will stop bemoaning the fact that the top of the range iMac has a graphics card that is essentially a joke for a screen that big. A 2.8 Ghz Core2Duo Extreme is not a standard consumer model processor, pairing it with a X2600 Pro is like.. well, I'm lacking metaphor right now, but a little crazy...

It's like building a machine to perfectly complement Apple's offerings at the moment.

The iMac comes with music production software, video editing software, photo cataloguing and editing software, and DVD authoring software.

The iMac, with its middle-of-the-road graphics card, absolutely EXCELS at ALL of those things, even if you step it up to the more professional variants of those software applications (although of course once you get into pro levels, you need pro accessories - audio interface, external monitor for color accuracy, video interface/camera).

In other words, if you're expecting it to perform well in a market it is OBVIOUSLY not aimed at, then yes, it's a little crazy.

Rob's stupid rants are as appropriate as someone barging into the iPhone forum and blathering on and on about how the iPhone is a complete piece of **** because the PSP is so much better at Tony Hawk for the price, and how everybody who buys one is an idiot who's drunk the Kool-Aid and now somehow has to justify buying such a hunk of crap.

Well, duh.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by rnicoll 

Okay, but that's like saying "Anyone who wants more than reading e-mail and slowly surfing web pages should buy a Mac Pro".

No, it's more like saying "anybody who's into racing is probably better off NOT buying a Lexus."

You can plaster the internet forums up and down with rants on how the Lexus is a crap car because its accelation specs are way lower than a racer should expect from spending that much on a car, but you'll be laughed at. If your response to that is to insult Lexus customers, then I wouldn't consider it overly surprising if you got banned from an internet forum.

Originally Posted by rnicoll 

The iMac 24" will not play pretty much any game coming out this year, at native resolution, usefully.

So what?

It will do pretty much EVERYTHING ELSE you can even DO with a computer, MORE than usefully (see post above).

[Dagny]

Dude, Apple is PUSHING games. They know they are weak in that area, and they are trying to get better.... but right now, what system that they sell actually plays them well? Oh, the MAC PRO. THATS IT. That's what everybody is pissed about. Especially since the LAST iMac plays games over 50% faster than the current model!

[Dagny]

Originally Posted by analogika 

So what?

It will do pretty much EVERYTHING ELSE you can even DO with a computer, MORE than usefully (see post above).

So the LAST iMac with the 7600GT does EVERYTHING you can DO with a computer, MORE THAN USEFULLY. Gaming, production, editing, WHATEVER. It was a strong machine! And I have a feeling it was taking a lot of mac pro sales....

[rnicoll]

Originally Posted by analogika 

It's like building a machine to perfectly complement Apple's offerings at the moment.

I was about to ask "Well why didn't they use a bottom end graphics card then?" and realised that H.264 decoding is probably a decent excuse...

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Dagny 

Dude, Apple is PUSHING games. They know they are weak in that area, and they are trying to get better.... but right now, what system that they sell actually plays them well? Oh, the MAC PRO. THATS IT. That's what everybody is pissed about. Especially since the LAST iMac plays games over 50% faster than the current model!

The last model was a couple hundred more expensive than the current one and slower at everything EXCEPT games.

And Apple TRIED to push games - repeatedly.

Where is this marvellous platform from id software? Where are all the games that were promised for simultaneous release on the Mac?

Like HELL Apple is gonna push a completely new market where the developers have ****ed them over time and again.

[Dagny]

Yeah, and it was WORTH a couple hundred more. Do you think any human can really detect the difference between the milliseconds of photoshop filters of a C2Duo 2.33 and a 2.4? or a 2.8? It really is NOT that big of a difference. Boot up a game, however, and it's quite apparent which system is struggling to achieve 30fps, and which is humming along at 70+fps. Plus it had a BETTER LCD.

[rnicoll]

Originally Posted by analogika 

The last model was a couple hundred more expensive than the current one and slower at everything EXCEPT games.

And Apple TRIED to push games - repeatedly.

Where is this marvellous platform from id software? Where are all the games that were promised for simultaneous release on the Mac?

Like HELL Apple is gonna push a completely new market where the developers have ****ed them over time and again.

You mean the new platform that id debuted at WWDC, even before QuakeCon?

id Software debuts new engine at Apple conference - Joystiq
id Software dubs new game 'Rage' - Joystiq

Well, not out for any platform yet. They haven't even announced a release date, but I'd imagine it will be out during 2008. At the same time it's out for every other platform. Oh, something else I found while researching this:

"IGN: How big was the response you got from showing Tech 5 at Mac World?

Tim Willits: We actually got a much better response than we thought we would. It was kind of a last minute thing. Apple's been working with us on some things and knew what we were working on and literally 10 days before the show said "We really love your stuff, we love the fact that you guys are working on Macs. Can you show it?" So it ended up being a big surprise. Usually we flag some press that we're going to be there. Also we did the DOOM 3 technology in 2001 at Mac World in Tokyo so we'd done this before and anytime we can get John Carmack on stage with Steve Jobs…"

- IGN: E3 2007: id Into the Future

Let me emphasise "Apple's been working with us on some things..."

[analogika]

I'm sure they'll be there when id is.

[rnicoll]

Originally Posted by analogika 

I'm sure they'll be there when id is.

And I'll be here with my credit card, waiting