[mqualben]

There doesn't seem to be much news about Flash on the iPhone these days (other than Adobe is working on it, and hacks) and I have been waiting to know.... Since Flash is too bulky and Flash Lite's too weak, I am wondering if Adobe will take a similar approach as Apple will with Snow Leopard, by dropping the virtual machine for ActionScript 1 and 2 (AVM1) from the iPhone version of Flash. AVM2 (AS3) has good improvements in performance and capabilities, and by making iPhone only run AS3 or later, Flash would be much smaller yet still full-powered, and Adobe would quickly $way more developers to make the leap to AS3/AS4. I'm just curious if anyone has come across anything on the matter (point being, learn AS3 sooner than later?).

[SSharon]

One thing is for certain, I don't miss all those flash ads on the iphone. Punching monkeys is not only distracting and intrusive, but will probably kill the already mediocre battery life of the 3G.

[-Q-]

Outside of support for some video playback, I've yet to see a truly compelling reason why I need flash working on my iPhone. And SSharon makes an excellent point about battery life - if just surfing static pages drains the battery that much, I hesitate to see what dynamic flash would do.

[Moonray]

I do not need Flash at all. Neither on mobile devices nor on statonary computers. For videos there are enough formats that will play on all modern OS' browsers, for ads I really don't need any Flash animation and if website owners think they would be cool if they show Flash intros and have Flash menus that's their problem, not mine!

-

[eggman]

Well, there's a ton of video that requires Flash... but Flash is also unparalleled for doing interactive data visualization online. AJAX doesn't even come close.

[turtle777]

I'm not missing Flash.

Hope it doesn't come. That forces web designers to use better alternatives.

-t

[macwall]

I'm not missing Flash either. If flash is ever added on to iPhone a lot of people will need to redesign their apps. Input for a Flash app with a singe pixel mouse pointer is going to be different from a fat finger tip.

[Zeeb]

I would like flash and I think its inevitable that it will make it to the iphone eventually. The ads are annoying but I'd like to watch the embedded videos on cnn and other sites. It would perfect if you could turn flash off if you wanted--I could see not wanting it on all the time.

[choosealex]

flash would be cool on the iphone/ipod touch if it wasn't so energy consuming. if it had a control feature to ask about using certain flash things on the net versus just putting it on all the time,it would work so much better. then you could watch hulu for free and forget about needing to buy tv shows.
like,if they had a little box over the flash application on the page that says "accept flash file
press yes or no..." or whatever.

youtube,that's already there. i'm pretty comfortable with that selection.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I'm not missing Flash.

Hope it doesn't come. That forces web designers to use better alternatives.

I'm going to agree with the entire statement here.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I'm not missing Flash.

Hope it doesn't come. That forces web designers to use better alternatives.

More like, that will simply exclude iPhone users from a bunch of web content for the next four or five years.

[Simon]

Since 90% of that "content" is obtrusive ads I'll be gladly "left out" for the next four or five years. Thanks.

[lpkmckenna]

What might be worth seeing is a Flash app from Adobe. Basically, you could click on a Flash movie on a web page, and it would open in the Flash app instead of inside of Safari.

But a Flash plug-in for Safari? God, no!

[The Godfather]

Apple should enable Embedded Quicktime in Mobile Safari. Cnn.com would inevitably adopt it since the iPhone clique is the most valuable market for advertisers.
And it would be an ironic twist on the yesteryear status quo of Real Media and Windows Media duopoly in web video.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Since 90% of that "content" is obtrusive ads I'll be gladly "left out" for the next four or five years. Thanks.

The news sites I frequent are gradually defaulting to Flash video and phasing out everything else.

Myspace media players are Flash-based, as are what seems like the vast majority of musicians' sites.

I won't miss Flash ads one bit, mind you, but that up there's a substantial chunk of my daily content, gone.

[besson3c]

Flash does make a great video wrapper, as analogika said. It also drives sites like the MLB Gameday site. It has its good uses, although it is indeed often misused.

[Moonray]

Originally Posted by analogika 

The news sites I frequent are gradually defaulting to Flash video and phasing out everything else.

Myspace media players are Flash-based, as are what seems like the vast majority of musicians' sites.

I won't miss Flash ads one bit, mind you, but that up there's a substantial chunk of my daily content, gone.

Only because sites gradually go Flash it doesn't mean that's good and it doesn't mean that now Flash things didn't work well another way before. Since Adobe has hands on Flash it seems to spread way more than it does good.

If you like to flow with the stream it's your choice but you will support taking over things by Adobe Flash where it really isn't needed.

The substantial chunk of my daily content does not blink or needs any animation to catch my attention because I choose what I read myself without such “help”.

-

[turtle777]

It's really odd. Ever since I got my iPhone 3G about 6 weeks ago, I haven't run into a single website that required flash.
I guess my surfing habits just don't require it.

-t

[outaru]

more and more sites are getting iPhone friendly..

That's the power of the iphone..

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Moonray 

Only because sites gradually go Flash it doesn't mean that's good and it doesn't mean that now Flash things didn't work well another way before. Since Adobe has hands on Flash it seems to spread way more than it does good.

If you like to flow with the stream it's your choice but you will support taking over things by Adobe Flash where it really isn't needed.

The substantial chunk of my daily content does not blink or needs any animation to catch my attention because I choose what I read myself without such “help”.

I'm not endorsing Flash at all.

I'm just pointing out the current state of things.

[Eug]

I definitely miss having Flash a lot. My understanding is that Flash is the #1 video wrapper on the net at this time, and I notice it.

IMO, Flash as a wrapper used to suck on some Macs, but I don't think that is the case anymore (aside from the fact that it can use up a lot of CPU juice). So, just when Flash got optimized well enough to work on the Macs I have... it got disappeared completely on my new surfing toy, the iPhone.

I do wish that some sites would ease up on the Flash though. Why do some web designers feel compelled to use flash and cheesy music when designing a web page for a local restaurant? When used like that it's just... err... flash. More important is the content. It's kinda pointless if can't easily find the menu or phone number, if I'm out and about with my iPhone.

[daniel]

I really have no use for flash on my iphone

[Moonray]

Originally Posted by analogika 

I'm not endorsing Flash at all.

I'm just pointing out the current state of things.

I do believe you. And I do not like to where the current state of things moves.
And I do not feel committed to follow the herd especially if I don't like the way.

-

[analogika]

Opting not to is a luxury.

Not being *able* to is a problem.

(OTOH, the iPhone itself is a luxury, not a necessity, so it's really not *that* big a deal.)

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by outaru 

more and more sites are getting iPhone friendly..

That's the power of the iphone..

Agreed, and I think that's what this is about. If as many people get iphones as ipods I can't see how this wont have an effect on how those pages use flash. That puts pressure on Adobe to come up with a solution before they lose their standard -- but right now the pressue is on Apple a little bit because a lot of people don't realize they wont be able to view many sites properly. The ads for the iphone don't point this out and I think that will be problematic for Apple in the short run.

Then again, many popular web pages may simply release an application for the iphone which accesses the same content as their website. It should be interesting.

[Eug]

As Mac and iPod adoption went up, QuickTime support on the net decreased.

QT used to be number 1 on the net IIRC. Now I believe it is number three, after Flash and WMV. Or is it back up to number 2 now?

[FireWire]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

[...] but right now the pressue is on Apple a little bit because a lot of people don't realize they wont be able to view many sites properly. The ads for the iphone don't point this out and I think that will be problematic for Apple in the short run.

Incidentally... BBC NEWS | Technology | iPhone ad rapped as 'misleading'

[Eug]

Originally Posted by FireWire 

Incidentally... BBC NEWS | Technology | iPhone ad rapped as 'misleading'

I doubt Apple will care much, but it'd be nice if it give Apple more reason to work with Adobe to get a viable Flash implementation on the iPhone sooner rather than later.

[Moonray]

Originally Posted by Eug 

As Mac and iPod adoption went up, QuickTime support on the net decreased.

Just because things happen at the same time it doesn't mean they cause each other.

As Flash video adoption went up (when Mac and iPod adoption did too), QuickTime support on the net decreased (and the amount of video clips on the net increased while the video quality as well as the quality of the contents of these clips decreased dramatically).

-

[Simon]

The problem with Flash is that works. It doesn't work well and it is abused for all kinds of sh!t, but it appears to be working pretty much everywhere. Meanwhile RealPlayer sucks plain and simple. WMA/V is a PITA. QT player sucks. QT web plugin sucks even more. So it's really no wonder Flash has gained so much market share.

QT could have done a lot better and I blame Apple big time for that. Thanks to iPod/iPhone porn it seems to be getting a second chance though.

What I don't understand is why major web browsers like FF (or Safari for that matter) don't just support MPEG4, h.264 as an open standard right out of the box with no extra plugins required. The same way they do for png. That way content would be as cross-platform compatible as FF is. At the same time as a content provider you don't tie yourself to a proprietary format owned by somebody like Adobe.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Moonray 

Just because things happen at the same time it doesn't mean they cause each other.

As Flash video adoption went up (when Mac and iPod adoption did too), QuickTime support on the net decreased (and the amount of video clips on the net increased while the video quality as well as the quality of the contents of these clips decreased dramatically).

I'm not saying it's cause and effect. I'm just saying that's what happened. DESPITE all the reasons for QT to do well, it didn't.

Yes, I agree that Flash in effect degraded video, but I guess the market felt that degraded video was better than no video at all. (No video is what Mac users got on some sites requiring WMV, and no video is what locked down Windows machine with sites requiring QT.) Furthermore, even when QT and WMV did work, it sucked as Simon says. And Real just sucked even more.

Originally Posted by Simon 

What I don't understand is why major web browsers like FF (or Safari for that matter) don't just support MPEG4, h.264 as an open standard right out of the box with no extra plugins required.

Probably partially because the terms "MPEG4" and "H.264" are so generic. Even QT doesn't have "MPEG4" and "H.264" compatibility right out of the box, if you're talking about the many different versions of them out there.