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digiology · Nov 16, 2002, 10:12 PM

How do dual monitors work? Are they usefull for every day use? Do they just mirror the image or make the screen space double the size?

Secret Vampire · Nov 16, 2002, 10:29 PM

Depends on the Mac in question, iMacs only allow mirroring, as do some PowerBooks, and the iBook.
Everything else (at least recent models) can use multiple monitors to extend the desktop.

Not all Towers have graphics cards capable of multiple display, my setup is one monitor on the stock ATI Rage128 pro, and one on an ixMicro Twin Turbo card, dirt cheap these days, and they work in X (at least mine does under 10.1.5, can't afford 10.2 yet

)

As to wether you'll use it, it depends how you use your computer, the way it works is pretty transparent, you can drag stuff between the two displays, or have windows spanning the two, and your desktop spans them, so really it's just like a double wide screen. The only downside is you only get the dock and menu bar on one of the screens, but that's not a major issue.

Mr. Blur · Nov 16, 2002, 11:39 PM

just to add to the last response -

i use 2 monitors as well. it's great for apps that need a lot of windows open like some of the audio recording/editing applications (or palettes, like in photoshop. i also find it handy when i am just surfing....mail open on one and browser on the other, or multiple browser windows. also, each monitor can run at its own colour depth and resolution - that is dependant on the video card(s)

l008com · Nov 16, 2002, 11:46 PM

Yes two or more monitors is great. I have a 17" CRT and a 15" LCD, which work out to about the same size. They work great. The LCD i cheap and poor quality while the CRT i a high quality apple display. But I am totally hooked. I keep my buddy list and file transfer windows and itunes controls on my lcd, web browsers on my crt. of coarse in any adobe app multiple monitors is priceless. I've even been known to do one browser window per screen and surf two windows at once. After a week you'll NEVER wanna go back to one processors. I have a dual 533, and since I got dual monitors, i've always said I'd rather give up a processor, than give up a monitor.

passmaster16 · Nov 17, 2002, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by l008com:
Yes two or more monitors is great. I have a 17" CRT and a 15" LCD, which work out to about the same size. They work great. The LCD i cheap and poor quality while the CRT i a high quality apple display. But I am totally hooked. I keep my buddy list and file transfer windows and itunes controls on my lcd, web browsers on my crt. of coarse in any adobe app multiple monitors is priceless. I've even been known to do one browser window per screen and surf two windows at once. After a week you'll NEVER wanna go back to one processors. I have a dual 533, and since I got dual monitors, i've always said I'd rather give up a processor, than give up a monitor.

Yeah i gotta agree there. My dual monitor setup is nice especially when working on multiple documents.

Of course I've found that with two monitors my production has decreased rather than increased

I suppose that the ability to have itunes and ichat up on another display at all times might account for something

hadocon · Nov 17, 2002, 01:07 PM

Yes, as far as I am concerned dual (or more) monitors is the way to go. If your machine supports monitor spanning I say "go for it!" I have been running dual monitor for about a year and I can not go back unless someone buys me a cinemaHD display

Even then I would attach my other monitors - I mean one can not have enough desktop space. The great thing about dual monitors on a mac is that it works transparently - you can set up your monitors to be side-by-side or one on top of the other (sometimes usefull) - and using the monitors control panel you can tell your mac how you have set up the monitors so that the mac mimics your monitor layout.

If you use FCP (like me) wide screens are a must. I have an effective desktop resolution of 2048x768 - that is wider than the cinemaHD, and @ about $400 each 2 15" lcd displays are way cheaper.

I use a dual monitor capable card (Gforce2 MX TwinView) in my AGP slot - and when I get some spare cash I want to get even more monitors (I can do this by adding more graphics cards in my PCI slots)!

It is true though about having your dock attached to only one monitor. I wish there was a way to pin the dick in the middle of both monitors - or better yet, have a dock on each monitor.

I have found that after I instealled the second monitor I have had to increase the traking speed of my mouse as I have quite a bit more mousing to do with this size of desktop.

slider · Nov 17, 2002, 01:56 PM

Thanks hadocon, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Jansar · Nov 17, 2002, 02:36 PM

I had two (but went down to one after the Cinema HD Display). I used to have my internet clients (Entourage, FTP, etc) in one monitor, and the rest in the other monitor.

It's a multitasker's dream!

hadocon · Nov 17, 2002, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by Jansar:
I had two (but went down to one after the Cinema HD Display). I used to have my internet clients (Entourage, FTP, etc) in one monitor, and the rest in the other monitor.

It's a multitasker's dream!

Will you be the one that buys me a cinema HD?

Actually, before I ever finish school and am able to afford a cinema HD (or whatever else is out @ the time) I want to buy at least 2 more 15" LCD displays (the original Apple ones - that come on a detachable stand) and make a 4x4 array of screens. What I really want to do is buy a glass desktop and place 2 screens under the glass and use those displays for when I really need some extra screen real-estate (like FCP editing) and place the other 2 displays on my desk as usual. Totally AWESOME!

This type of setup would also be great when I am working on paper and pencil homework as my eyes would not have to jump as far from page to screen - essentially I could have the screen right beside my paper (under the glass)

hadocon · Nov 17, 2002, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by digiology:
How do dual monitors work? Are they usefull for every day use? Do they just mirror the image or make the screen space double the size?

digiology: I see that you are from Cork. Have you been to the Powerbook factory there?

digiology · Nov 18, 2002, 03:15 PM

Im using a Dual 1Ghz G4 with the GeForce 4 card that came with it.I think I saw an adapter for ADC ports for connecting VGA monitors to it therefore letting me use two displays (the monitor im using now is VGA and so would the other one) can I use video mirroring also if I want?

hadocon: No I haven't been there, I didn't know they made powerbooks at all. Once I got some free DVD-rs from a friend who works there though

superblue · Nov 22, 2002, 07:10 AM

Could anyone with these fantastic-sounding set-ups post some shots of the System Prefs set-up screen, and if you can, a photo of your monitors - I'd like to see what can be done!

Also, does having extra monitors slow down your system at all? And how do you go about using a tablet and pen over multiple monitors? (I have a Wacom Graphire)

rm199 · Nov 22, 2002, 07:24 AM

Do any games take advantage of dual monitors?

RM

digiology · Nov 23, 2002, 08:17 AM

Yeah, could any one tell us if it is an advantage to games?

rm199 · Nov 23, 2002, 11:18 AM

web searches pretty much show zero except for Matrox (whos Parhelia was pushing multihead gaming).

I can understand why they dont make games dual head - small part of the market really but it would be nice

RM

residentEvil · Nov 23, 2002, 02:12 PM

i'm running 3 monitors...2 LCDs and one CRT.

only game i know of that takes use of multi head (3) is a flight simulator...

middle monitor is your front view. left monitor would be what you see if you turn your head to the left...right monito would be what you see if you turn your head to the right.

game name: might be microsoft's flight simulator...i could search, but so can anyone. its out there

Eug · Nov 23, 2002, 05:57 PM

Out of interest's sake, what does the screen grab look like when you have the two monitors off kilter from each other, instead of side by side?

Eg. like in this pic:

superblue · Nov 24, 2002, 12:49 AM

...and if you shift + apple + 4 + space to grab a window, is it smart enough to grab the window beyond the confines of the monitor?

Damn! I'm getting really itchy for a second monitor now!!!

CRASH HARDDRIVE · 04:14 PM

A screen capture of 'off kilter' monitors will merely place white space around whatever area is outside the desktop area in whatever way is needed to form a rectanglular-shaped image of the entire desktop space. (Basically the same way you need white space around the setup pic posted by Eug. Picute that without the comps themselves, just their desktops.)

Off kilter monitors you'd set up in the controll panel by dragging them to reflect the real-world setup of the monitors.

Each monitor can be at its own resolution and color depth as well. A screen capture will show smaller resolution monitors as physically smaller in space.

A Dual monitor setup is the only way to go for me using a desktop system. I'm even used to using dual monitors with my TiBook often. All my most used PCs are dual monitor as well. For me it just makes working easier by far. I find on a single monitor system I'm constantly wanting to shuffle windows off to a non-existant side space where another monitor would be.

As mentioned, apps like Photoshop and video and sound editing apps are just the best with multiple monitors. How anyone works in Photoshop with palletes and such all over the workspace rather than on thier own monitor is beyond me! Drives me nuts to even try it anymore!

I've used a dual setup in some form or another since about 1995 and never looked back. Currently at home I have dual LCDs attached to switch boxes allowing me to share them dual with a G4 and two PCs as well as my TiBook. It sometimes gets very confusing which 2nd desktop of which system I'm looking at- I really have to watch the switches.

As for games, I used to play A-10 Cuba from Bungie on a 3 monitor system I set up at work (for video editing, not games-but it was a great system for games at the time). This was in 1996 or so, back then very few people had even seen a dual monitor system, let alone 3 playing a flight sim on all 3 screens. The effect I STILL fing more amazing and more playable than most of the more modern 3D games. If anyone has a copy of A-10 Cuba (no the graphics aren't 'high-tech' by today's standards) but you can still get a great idea of the potential for multi- monitor gaming and as far as I know it still runs on most sytems in OS9.

If you're really considering getting multi-monitors, I'd say go for it. Anything your comp could do with one monitor it still can anyway. To me, it just gives a computer double the apparent function.

Edit: oops dual LCDs not CRTs

zac4mac · Nov 24, 2002, 01:34 PM

I've been hooked on dual monitors for a few years now. My duallie at home and my old8500 at work both run 2 monitors. 21&17 at home, 19&17 at work.
Both mine are dual card(built in VRAM and a card on the 8500, Radeon AGP and Orion PCI on the DP550)
I have a real hard time doing Photoshop without a separate Palettes monitor.
The first time I tried it(OS 8.1 or 8.5), I hooked up a second monitor and card and the Control Panel recognized the change and gave me options for both monitors resolution, refresh, color depth and arrangement. True Plug & Play.

Thinking real hard about getting a Radeon 9700 when they finally come out for Mac, sometimes the two cards conflict, like if an animated window crosses the line to the other monitor. I think that wouldn't happen with a single card running both TVs. I've had less trouble since I traded my OEM Radeon for a retail version, no more driver conflicts between Apple and ATi.

Don't mix chips, either use both ATi or nVidia, or a single AGP card for both..

MickS · Nov 24, 2002, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by rm199:
Do any games take advantage of dual monitors?

RM

F/A 18 used to do this to provide a left quarter, ahead, right quarter view. Very, very nice

I don't know whether any existing games do.

tyssejc · Dec 26, 2002, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by digiology:
[B]Im using a Dual 1Ghz G4 with the GeForce 4 card that came with it.I think I saw an adapter for ADC ports for connecting VGA monitors to it therefore letting me use two displays (the monitor im using now is VGA and so would the other one) can I use video mirroring also if I want?

I have the same tower as you do, with the same setup. I know what you're talking about; it's the VGA Extractor from Dr. Bott (a cable that has an ADC plug at one end and a VGA plug at the other). I just got this little cable, and it does not allow me to use multiple monitors. I plugged both monitors into the ports in the card, but neither of them received a signal when I turned on the computer.

Is this some sort of glitch or do I have to get a new video card to get multiple displays? PLEASE HELP!!

dannyn · Dec 27, 2002, 02:04 AM

Here's a quickie screenshot (command-shift-4) of my dual monitor setup (Cinema Display + Powerbook Ti800):

Tons of desktop space to play with.

icruise · Dec 27, 2002, 04:46 AM

Dual monitors are great. Once you get used to them they can really change the way you work.

tyssejc · Dec 27, 2002, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by tyssejc:
I have the same tower as you do, with the same setup. I know what you're talking about; it's the VGA Extractor from Dr. Bott (a cable that has an ADC plug at one end and a VGA plug at the other). I just got this little cable, and it does not allow me to use multiple monitors. I plugged both monitors into the ports in the card, but neither of them received a signal when I turned on the computer.

Is this some sort of glitch or do I have to get a new video card to get multiple displays? PLEASE HELP!!

Nevermind ... I tried it with a different monitor and got great results

Thanks anyway

Mac Zealot · Dec 28, 2002, 08:31 AM

I used to do dual monitors, and it's a GREAT thing, but right now I've run out of desk space and need another table.

I keep the monitor on my left hooked up to my celery 900 box. It's -REALLY- handy to have a second computer ready.

I find it about as useful as dual monitors, as the only bad thing is you can't copy/paste across and such, etc.. AND you have to have dual keyboards/mice

:shrug:

i have a cinema display, and usually what I do with double browser windows is put 1 over the other because some sites have bad glitches. *shrug*

Donlaub · Jan 18, 2003, 05:53 PM

I've been planning to retire my 17" CRT studio display, and plunking down a bit of cash for a cinema display. Would I be better off just buying a 15" of 17" studio display to put next to my 17"....let's see: a 22' cinema is 1600 x 1024 and costs $2500 new, or $2200 refurbished; my current monitor has 1024 x 768, and a 15" studio has the same resolution. If they are side by side that's 2048 x 768 for about $500. (I just noticed apple doesn't sell them anymore).

Do you out there that have dual displays think the savings is worrth the inconvenience of two displays, or should I stop being cheap, and get the cinema?

Thanks,

Don

Mac Zealot · Jan 18, 2003, 07:38 PM

no. a 17" CRT and a 15" LCD will be hard, if not impossible, for your eyes, and for ergonomics, to keep switching between.

CRTs and LCDs are totally different, as well. Two CRTs is ok, two LCDs even better, but a CRT and LCD can be a problem.

I did this for a while, but the CRTs tend to be hard to organize (they take up more space so you end up having them sticking out), and the refresh can get annoying for your eyes.

I prefer one LARGE display, as you have more room. But, if you are planning to spend that much coin, I'd go for either a set of 1740ox displays from formac, or a formac 2010 (20"), and 17".

They seem to have displays that are pretty on-par compared to apple's, and they still look pretty good.

If anything, if you WANT an apple display, BE CAREFUL!!!!!!!!!!

You might want to go to an apple store and inspect the one you want (have them test it), before buying it, or even making sure you can get one from a store that has a good policy or one that will easily take it back if it has a few dead pixels. I've seen many dead-pixel cases with all apple LCD displays, and sometimes things go good, sometimes the owner just got shafted with a defective monitor.

And I say you take whatever caution you want because you're about to blow 2500, if anything, and they should be happy to make sure you're satisfied with the product

Donlaub · Jan 19, 2003, 11:37 AM

Thanks for the good advice, Zealot!

I was even thinking of buying a Cinema display on eBay, to save a few hundred $. It's just not worth the aggrivation! You'd think I'd have learned my lesson with my cheapo RAM nightmare!

There is a great Apple dealer (Smalldog electronics) across the mountains in Waitsfield. I'll be worth the drive to be able to check out all the displays you mentioned.

OreoCookie · Jan 19, 2003, 02:41 PM

You simply get addicted to it. Browsing. TeXing. Programming. I love it.

mark9939 · Jan 20, 2003, 12:50 AM

I LOVE dual monitors. I use them with my iBook when I'm sitting at a desk and I just set them up on my XP box. They are really addictive. I play a DVD on one monitor and browse on the other.

Definately get one.

Xyphoid Process · Jan 22, 2003, 12:45 PM

Does anyone have experience running Jaguar with two monitor cards, one AGP and one PCI?

Specifically, how does Quartz Extreme function with only one supported card? I'd like to add a second monitor (via PCI card) for palettes/iTunes etc... but I don't want to sacrifice overall system speed. I'm currently running a Sawtooth 400 under 10.2.3 with a flashed GeForce2 single head.

Thanks!

ebisix · Jan 23, 2003, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by Eug:
Out of interest's sake, what does the screen grab look like when you have the two monitors off kilter from each other, instead of side by side?

Eg. like in this pic:

Wow! Nice picture. I never knew that you could use two displays like that. I thought that it was just mirroring so you could use a bigger screen. Thanks.

Mac Zealot · 10:49 PM

Originally posted by Xyphoid Process:
Does anyone have experience running Jaguar with two monitor cards, one AGP and one PCI?

Specifically, how does Quartz Extreme function with only one supported card? I'd like to add a second monitor (via PCI card) for palettes/iTunes etc... but I don't want to sacrifice overall system speed. I'm currently running a Sawtooth 400 under 10.2.3 with a flashed GeForce2 single head.

Thanks!

You're better off getting a newer agp card. I believe geforce 4mx cards work on a sawtooth (agp 2x).. and I actually have a friend who's trying to sell one, if you're interested IM me.