[tavilach]

A friend and I are both interested in the possibility and impossibility of time travel, and are thinking about teaching a small, student-run course about the subject. This would of course require a good dose of research about the subject. We would want to discuss the physics of time travel (or no time travel), as well as fictional beliefs and perhaps watch a movie or two (for the hello of it). I'd rather not build a course from Wikipedia, so I was wondering if anyone knew of any good places to look for various time travel theories that could be discussed in this type of setting.

[subego]

Check out the references in the Wiki article.

Paul Davies is listed first. He knows his ****.

[anti-sleep]

I'm not exactly an 'expert' on the topic, but it's been my experience that any credible source you find will tell you that it is impossible if our current understanding of physics (both general relativity and quantum theory) is correct.

Also, fictional beliefs is an oxymoron.

[E's Lil Theorem]

Ahhh, DeCal classes, how I miss thee!

I remember my first DeCal class, History 98: The Poetry and History of Tupac Shakur. I couldn't get enough after that. A few years later I even helped a friend teach one on Wrestling

Sorry, flashback...hmm, how about the library? I'm sure there'll be an extensive section on time travel there. Just a thought.

FYI, for non Cal students/alumni, DeCal classes are student-taught classes. Despite common belief, not just any jabroni can teach one, though. You need a proper syllabus and a professor that approves it to sponsor your class. Oh, and "DeCal" stands for democratic education at Cal. Good times

[BlueSky]

I taught a time travel course about 27 years from now.

[osiris]

Watch Back To The Future parts 1,2,3, and read up on John Titor. Shake well, add grains of salt to taste.

For more serious material, search for articles by Michio Kaku.
here's one: http://www.mkaku.org/articles/phys_time_travel.shtml

[baw]

http://timetraveler.ytmnd.com/

[OreoCookie]

Paul Davies' books are pretty good for non-physicists.
But I think this question is physically not answerable, so I would suggest you stick to philosophical points.

Davies, for instance, asks the question: Does God live inside or outside of time and discusses the philosophical implications of that (inside of time means that God lives through the same flow of time as we do and thus can interfere with the lives of humans. But on the other hand, he might not know all of the future, if humans have free will, that is. If God lives outside of time, past, present and future are one. Humans do not have a free will, since `it's all written'. That was just a rough sketch, but there should be enough philosophical questions to fill a course with.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

I taught a time travel course about 27 years from now.

[aberdeenwriter]

Related Articles
Free Audio Clip: Titor Family Attny

George recently interviewed Larry Haber, the attorney for the family of 'time traveler' John Titor (pictured is his alleged time machine). In the pre-taped segment, Haber fields questions to Kay, who claims to be the time traveler's mother, and then relays her answers.
Listen: Win | Real

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/02/23.html

Many citations of Coast to Coast AM shows devoted entirely or in part to John Titor.

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/search...=titor&x=0&y=0

[Pendergast]

I suggest "Gödel Meets Einstein: Time Travel in the Gödel Universe.".

It is probably one of the most serious discussion related to Gödel's theory of time travel, based on General Relativity. He basically sustains the position that because there is no flow of time, it is therefore possible to travel in it, the instant being the only reality we can get from time. This is not contradictory in this that time has to be understood as a landscape, and its flow is actually an artefact of our consciousness.

You could also look into Quantum Gravity, where the latest ideas lead to a time and space reduced to granular consistency (I am not familiar enough with it though, so I suggest you read Smolin's and Ashar's discussions on the topic, especially in the latest special edition of Scientific American).

There is also a book from Julian Harbour "The End of Time" which juggles with relatively similar ideas as those of Quantum Gravity. Apparently, the similarity ends there as there appear to be some basic oppositions between the 2 theories.

Someone else brought the idea that actually, time travel is just passing from one parallel universe to another. I think it is built on the many-world interpretation of Wigner. Since there are as many universes as there can be possibilities of choices (something close to infinity), there are therefore a multitude of very similar universes. Time travel would be a passage from one universe to another, more or less unphased or delayed or advanced than the origin of departure.

Hope this helps.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Pendergast

time has to be understood as a landscape, and its flow is actually an artefact of our consciousness.

[Y3a]

Who's gonna Sponsor it, Doctor Who?

[baw]

Captain Picard!

[RodriCO2000]

Actually both General Relativity as well as Quantum Mechanics show that time does not seem to flow, in essenced we all live in a free standing ever existing moment, the passage of time is an illusion.

With that, I suggest you read Brian Greene and get yourself caught up in Stirng/M Theory. The elegant Universe is a great book, but my favorite one is "The Fabric of the Cosmos" in which Brian goes into extensive detail on time, and reality. It will blow your mind.

Keep in mind that the actual possibility of time travel exists, however the technology to make it achieaveable is WAY WAY WAY beyond our reach, and perhaps will be for quite some time.

DO NOT watch or even use BTF Movies as your basis for time travel since it has way too many inconsistencies, its bogus hollywood action.

Read up on your Einstein-Rosen Physics and Quantum Mechanics. Amazing subjects really.

Alas we travel through time all the time, although in extremely small almost irrelevant scales, for example, whe you are standing, and when you observe someone flying past you at 300 MPH. (Super Trains, Planes, Etc.) Their prespective on time is slower, so relative to you they are traveling to the future, again someting like .000000000000000000000000000001 seconds or so, but still the actual time differential is very real.

I just gave myself a headache.



R.

[tavilach]

I'm getting scared now. To teach a tiny little course about this stuff I need to understand quantum mechanics? Would I be able to just read up about the relevant parts without too much effort? This isn't supposed to be a huge ordeal.

[anti-sleep]

Originally Posted by RodriCO2000

With that, I suggest you read Brian Greene and get yourself caught up in Stirng/M Theory. The elegant Universe is a great book, but my favorite one is "The Fabric of the Cosmos" in which Brian goes into extensive detail on time, and reality. It will blow your mind.

I'd be careful of String Theory. It's a nice thought, but the only reason to believe string theory is that you can't disprove it. Technically, it's not even a theory because it can't be tested.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by tavilach

I'm getting scared now. To teach a tiny little course about this stuff I need to understand quantum mechanics? Would I be able to just read up about the relevant parts without too much effort? This isn't supposed to be a huge ordeal.

Then you should do as OreoCookies suggested; go the philosophy route.

You could also limit yourself to "A Brief History of Time".

You know, there is nothing created without some sweat and... time.




Now, don't try to understand QM; no one does.

[OreoCookie]

In regular quantum mechanics (i. e. not quantum field theory), time is just time. Unless you want to spend a few years to learn these things (properly), I would repeat my suggestion to stick to philosophical topics.

[tavilach]

The Philosophy route isn't really about time travel though. The idea that God may be outside of space-time is not something I'd like to talk about, for example.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by tavilach

The Philosophy route isn't really about time travel though. The idea that God may be outside of space-time is not something I'd like to talk about, for example.

I think OC gave you an example.
There are several ways to tackle the issue. For instance, does it make sense to travel in time? Is there a time of reference, i.e.: if the present is now, what about other "present/now" and can they be changed? And if so what really happens?

In Science, using God is to anthropomorphize a potential omnipotent human being through the imaginary.

Time travel is not a simple idea; it is complex and the issues, beyond the technologies required to make it happen, are quite important. The nature of Reality as we know it can be challenged.

[euchomai]

http://www.primermovie.com/index.html

Watch this movie and figure it out, it would be a really fun class. Seriously guys, rent this movie if you like the idea of time travel.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by E's Lil Theorem

FYI, for non Cal students/alumni, DeCal classes are student-taught classes. Despite common belief, not just any jabroni can teach one, though. You need a proper syllabus and a professor that approves it to sponsor your class. Oh, and "DeCal" stands for democratic education at Cal. Good times

So THAT is where the fuzzy brain* thinking comes from.




*chill out, it's just a joke

[meelk]

i wish i could go back in time and kill this thread.

[tavilach]

Thanks for all the suggested resources, but there's still a hurdle for me. I would want to discuss a wide range of beliefs/theories, and if I simply refer to random articles by various people, I will have some viewpoints, but have no idea which of them are considered most probable and/or are most recognized. The course should be an introduction to the subject matter, and as such touch on various things without going into too much detail. If any of you can think of comprehensive and/or "meta" resources, that would be great.

[Doofy]

IIRC, there's a fair few opinions/discussions about time travel over at http://www.everything2.com

Just do a search on it and notice the links at the bottom of each page.

(note, at the current time the server is down and telling us it won't be back up until "Monday morning")

[I Bent My Wookiee]

Originally Posted by tavilach

and are thinking about teaching a small, student-run course about the subject. This would of course require a good dose of research about the subject

You've been saying you're going to start a course since 2009 but have been sitting on your butt ever since.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by meelk

i wish i could go back in time and kill this thread.

According to credible sources, this thread will not happen until 2006.

Uhm, no, wait ?

-t

[euchomai]

Originally Posted by tavilach

Thanks for all the suggested resources, but there's still a hurdle for me. I would want to discuss a wide range of beliefs/theories, and if I simply refer to random articles by various people, I will have some viewpoints, but have no idea which of them are considered most probable and/or are most recognized. The course should be an introduction to the subject matter, and as such touch on various things without going into too much detail. If any of you can think of comprehensive and/or "meta" resources, that would be great.

Being a teacher isn't easy, it is the ability to see all these links you've found and spend quality time researching to figure it out for yourself. When students come to a class they expect to see a teacher that offers his opinions strongly, you need to learn the content enough so that your self esteem doesn't take a hit the first time a student questions you.

[olePigeon]

"Hold on, lemme put the crystals in... OK, turn it on."
*zap*
"Nnng! Kip... Kip turn... turn it off... turn it off, Kip!"

Traveling to the past would appear to be impossible given that any mass can not travel faster than light, less you'll be the size of the universe. You also have the problem that the moment you leave any point in time, you create inifinit number of time branches, dimensions, and multiverses.

The problem with going forward in time is that there is no forward. There is only now. However, since time is relative, in the event of attempting to travel back in time, the relative universe around you would probably've passed you by a few hundred years (if not thousand as you approach the speed of light.) So while within the confines of General Relativity, you haven't actually gone forward in time, but for the most part, you have "traveled" a few hundred years within a few minutes of your own time. It's called the Twin Paradox.

Sounds like fun.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by tavilach

Thanks for all the suggested resources, but there's still a hurdle for me. I would want to discuss a wide range of beliefs/theories, and if I simply refer to random articles by various people, I will have some viewpoints, but have no idea which of them are considered most probable and/or are most recognized. The course should be an introduction to the subject matter, and as such touch on various things without going into too much detail. If any of you can think of comprehensive and/or "meta" resources, that would be great.

The few times I've ever truly been at the leading edge of thought or research on a subject it has been after much research, over a good length of time and having become AT LEAST aware of every significant idea, discovery, line of research by others and school of thought that was in print. For a while I was a virtual 'expert student' of one of these subjects, just because I followed ALL the leads.

The problem with Time Travel is that so many people have an idea of what Time Travel is and some of these people attempt to talk or publish on it without actually doing much in the way of original thought or research.

Your post suggests you will reach a point where you will have to postpone doing the class until you first complete your own homework, or you will begin your homework and once you reach a certain point will just start the class (even though there is still much for you to learn on the subject) or you will just moderate the class.

You need to just start slogging through the material and, however briefly you wish, catalog and index it all as you go along. Your asking the question in this post tells me you have a long way to go before you'll feel comfortable even knowing the parameters of the subject.

Once you have learned enough you will be able to ANSWER our questions and we will look to YOU for answers.

Good night and Good luck.

[zeta101]

tavilach, do you have any formal education in physics or a physical science? Although time travel is very popular in science fiction, it doesn't mean the ideas and science behind it is easy to understand. Also, have a rough idea of the subject does not qualify you as a teacher in the subject.

You will be doing a great disservice to the people you try to teach if you are not an expert in the subject. An informal chat between friends about whether time travel is possible or not is one thing, but wanting to teach a small course in it is another.

I'm curious, are you at school/university? I find it strange for someone to want to teach a course like this.

I hope I haven't come across as being too negative!

[tavilach]

The class will meet for a total of 13-15 hours during the semester, so all this talk about being an expert seems a bit over the top. Check out all the classes that students teach: http://www.decal.org/courses/index.php. I think I'm certainly qualified to learn some material and then relay it to a few students. This isn't about becoming an expert in all facets of time travel.

[wdlove]

Will save my money for a Mac.

[euchomai]

Originally Posted by wdlove

Will save my money for a Mac.

Dang, you are post whoring tonight!

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by anti-sleep

I'd be careful of String Theory. It's a nice thought, but the only reason to believe string theory is that you can't disprove it. Technically, it's not even a theory because it can't be tested.

I understood that it's not that it can't inherently not be tested; it's that there's no way with current technology or theoretic technology. That doesn't mean we won't be able to test it eventually.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by tavilach

The class will meet for a total of 13-15 hours during the semester, so all this talk about being an expert seems a bit over the top. Check out all the classes that students teach: http://www.decal.org/courses/index.php. I think I'm certainly qualified to learn some material and then relay it to a few students. This isn't about becoming an expert in all facets of time travel.

Good luck!

[forkies]

Originally Posted by euchomai

tonight!

tonight?

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by aberdeenwriter

Good luck!

Why is that so funny?

[cpt kangarooski]

Your course sucked. I want my money back.

[baw]

I read this thread 2 years ago.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by cpt kangarooski

Your course sucked. I want my money back.

So sue him

-t

[euchomai]

If you don't want advice then don't ask us, it doesn't always turn out how you'd like.