[BRussell]

The Senate is debating and voting on this now. At least 65 senators appear to support it, including virtually all Republicans and about half the Democrats.

Does anyone here actually think this is something we should pass?

[Demonhood]

No.

[Dork.]

Just like when they were debating the Gay Marriage amendment, I can't help but wonder whether there are more important things for them to talk about right now.

[Dakar]

Because if you want to show you love freedom, you must pass an amendment to restrict people's inconsequential actions.

Edit: I thought this failed in the 90s.

[Millennium]

No, this should not be passed.

Dakar: Yes, it did fail in the 1990s. However, people keep trying to pass it again.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Just-in-time-for-the-Fourth-of-July grandstanding.

But it's no more useless than a lot of specific 'hate crime' legislation.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Demonhood

No.

Ditto.

[davesimondotcom]

Call me a Constitutional purist or whatever, but I don't see why people keep trying to ammend it for certain things that just aren't necessary.

At least this won't actually alter the Constitution on passage, just put it to the states for ratification. But the Senate voting on two ammendments in one month is kind of a record, isn't it?

[Monique]

No it should not passed.

[RAILhead]

Thank goodness we know what a Canadian thinks about it! WHEW! All us US citizens was a-sweatin' that!

[FeLiZeCaT]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Thank goodness we know what a Canadian thinks about it! WHEW! All us US citizens was a-sweatin' that!

Wait.

Soon, there'll be enough Canadians and Mexicans in the US to have the flag upgraded with maple leafs instead of stars and a bull in the middle.

No one would dare burn such a flag...

[RAILhead]

That's for freakin sure.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Thank goodness we know what a Canadian thinks about it! WHEW! All us US citizens was a-sweatin' that!

And here's the opinion of another Canadian: freedom of expression is universal value, not just an American one.

And here's the opinion of an American:

Originally Posted by Franklin D. Roosevelt

Four freedoms: The first is freedom of speech and expression, everywhere in the world.
The second is freedom of everyone to worship God in his own way, everywhere in the world.
The third is freedom from want, everywhere in the world.
The fourth is freedom from fear, anywhere in the world.

[Monique]

It should not happen in any country. You want to burn the flag of your country go ahead.

[itai195]

Yet another reminder of why US politics suck

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Monique

It should not happen in any country. You want to burn the flag of your country go ahead.

Exactly. Certainly burning the flag of one's country might be considered rude; that's a viewpoint I can understand and respect. But rudeness is not a crime, and it should not be one.

[FeLiZeCaT]

All flags should be burn, regardless of the countries. Call me idealist, but nations are the last thing humanity requires ofr its survival. Same goes for all religions; there is none better than the other one.

Flags are symbols; they represent concepts, but they say nothing about who you are. They can be used to remember a past, what a nation is, but it is far too limited a symbol to be any revelation.

Let flags burn to ash, any flags, all flags. Let us stop wearing the piece of cloth as if our pride depends on it. Let's burn what keeps us from looking at one another in the eye, as equals, instead of a colored veil that hides who we really are.

[ink]

Hatch just needs a reason to get re-elected. He can put this on his "I'm a conservative" report card in November.

[BRussell]

So no one supports this, even though the vast majority of our congress supports it?

Here's an odd twist on the debate: A flag is supposed to be burned when it gets old, according to US law, US Code, Title 4, Section 8. It's very easy to find examples of good patriotic Republican Americans burning flags on flag day. So how do you tell the good burners from the bad burners?

[darth-vader000]

While I abhor the act of flag burning, I cannot see legislating patriotism, beside while I do hate it, people who complain about free speech do have a point.

I see this a ploy to get back in touch with the conservative base that the republicans are in danger of alienating.

The same could have been said about the marriage amendment.

[BlueSky]

Here's something some guy just said on Lou Dobbs. Say the amendment passes and gets ratified and all that:

Supposin' you have 2 boy scouts burning a flag. A cop comes along and asks why they're burning the flag. The first boy scout says "I'm retiring the flag. Flag guidelines say one of the ways to dispose of a flag is to burn it".

He asks the other boy scout why. The second boy scout says "I'm burning the flag because I hate my country". So he gets arrested...because of a thought, an intention.

---

So, isn't he in reality being arrested for hating his country? (or being pissed off at his country, whatever.)

The result is the same, a burned flag, but the thought police take one to jail. What's sacred, the flag? Or the freedom of thought and a harmless expression of that thought?

I don't get why they don't get it. It's quite obvious as to where that scenario leads.

[Montezuma58]

Burning flags contributes to global warming. Plus think of all of the children breathing the second had smoke from the smoldering flags. We really need this amendment. Please think of the children.

[greenG4]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Here's something some guy just said on Lou Dobbs. Say the amendment passes and gets ratified and all that:

Supposin' you have 2 boy scouts burning a flag. A cop comes along and asks why they're burning the flag. The first boy scout says "I'm retiring the flag. Flag guidelines say one of the ways to dispose of a flag is to burn it".

He asks the other boy scout why. The second boy scout says "I'm burning the flag because I hate my country". So he gets arrested...because of a thought, an intention.

---

So, isn't he in reality being arrested for hating his country? (or being pissed off at his country, whatever.)

The result is the same, a burned flag, but the thought police take one to jail. What's sacred, the flag? Or the freedom of thought and a harmless expression of that thought?

I don't get why they don't get it. It's quite obvious as to where that scenario leads.

As an (old) Eagle Scout, this is an interesting thought process. Especially since I have retired at least two flags that I remember. (By burning). Before reading this I was for this because I hate seeing the flag disrespected. But, I can see the slipperly slope you are referring to. <reflecting quietly>

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by BRussell

So no one supports this, even though the vast majority of our congress supports it?

Here's an odd twist on the debate: A flag is supposed to be burned when it gets old, according to US law, US Code, Title 4, Section 8. It's very easy to find examples of good patriotic Republican Americans burning flags on flag day. So how do you tell the good burners from the bad burners?

Keep in mind this isn't exactly an anti-BURNING ammendment, but rather an anti-DESECRATION ammendment.

Actually, it's not even that. It's just that it will give Congress the right to make anti-desecration legislation without any sort of problems with Constitutionality.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

Keep in mind this isn't exactly an anti-BURNING ammendment, but rather an anti-DESECRATION ammendment.

Actually, it's not even that. It's just that it will give Congress the right to make anti-desecration legislation without any sort of problems with Constitutionality.

Well, it's a stupid idea and unnecessary. Thankfully, it failed. Again.

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Well, it's a stupid idea and unnecessary. Thankfully, it failed. Again.

Yeah, I agree it's stupid and unnecessary. I think that it's stupid to ammend the Constitution every time someone sneezes.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

The result is the same, a burned flag, but the thought police take one to jail. What's sacred, the flag? Or the freedom of thought and a harmless expression of that thought?

The example is a pretty good one, because it illustrates that burning a flag shouldn’t be a crime in the first place- made all the more obvious by the disposal tradition. It’s ridiculous that a court would ever have to determine ‘intent’ in such a matter.

But with actual crimes, the state of mind, thought process and intent of the perpetrator can very much be taken into consideration by the law, otherwise we wouldn’t have "__ with intent to commit__" , differing degrees of felonies, or concepts like premeditated acts carrying stiffer sentences.

[jcadam]

IMHO, desecration of the flag should result in your citizenship being revoked and you being dumped via helicopter into some random third-world craphole.

[Montezuma58]

If I made a computer animation of an American flag burning would that count as flag desecration? What if I made photo copies of a flag and wiped my butt with them, would that count as flag desecration? What about all those canceled stamps on the mail I receive that I just wad up and throw away?

Just some of the weird implications that would have to be considered if this amendment actually passed.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by jcadam

IMHO, desecration of the flag should result in your citizenship being revoked and you being dumped via helicopter into some random third-world craphole.

Uh, what's humble about that?

[Monique]

There are more important amendments the Congress could pass, like the ERA.

[demograph68]

Isn't it technically a desecration for a flag to touch the ground?

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Monique

There are more important amendments the Congress could pass, like the ERA.

If "equal rights under the law" were any less vague and broad than "desecration of the flag", then you might have a point. As the ERA stands, however, it's a badly-crafted law no matter how good its intent might be.

[lpkmckenna]

Actually, the ERA has expired, more than 20 years ago.

[Sky Captain]

Only burning an American flag is protected as free speach.
Burn an Mexican flag and get arrested.

Freedom of speech is only protected for those who hate America.

[Demonhood]

um, did you miss this paragraph?

While it is not illegal to burn the Mexican flag, or any other flag, according to Arizona law, reckless burning occurs when someone burns something and a fire or explosion results that damages a structure or property, Hopffer said.

if you're going to burn something, do so responsibly.

[Sky Captain]

Yeah, I missed it.
But I'll bet you dimes to a doughnut that if illegals were burning an American flag, nothing would have come of it.

[davesimondotcom]

Why in the world anyone would want to burn anything in the summertime in Arizona, I'll never know... as if they need more heat.