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freudling · Dec 31, 2006, 06:09 AM

Can we also stop getting people to pose for pictures? It is like doing the robotic at parties. "Oh, hey! Guys, scrunch in. Oh come on freudling, smile!" ... Digital camera warms up... and warms up. Delayed flash. Time to try again so nobody this time will be tricked by the delayed flash...

PowerPoint, like posing for pictures, is a residual tradition passed on from previous decades/generations/schools of thought. Candid pictures are most always better than posed for ones. As for PowerPoint, our Biochem prof's laptop busted one class, and he had to teach us on the whiteboard. After the class, he asked all of us if we liked the class better without the "digital slides" that is PowerPoint. Everyone just sighed and said yes in unison. This was a large lecture hall.

I then read an article called, "Does PowerPoint Make Us Stupid?". Now I think I know why we liked the class more. It was more tangible, more real and more animated. We saw the chemical processes being "drawn up" in an "on the fly" approach as the instructor was just scribbling his thoughts as he lectured.

PowerPoint is plain stupid. People should not have to see your bullet points that you use as a guide for your presentation. It ends up being this regimented, boring, piece of dribble that not only puts people to sleep because of the way it is mapped out visually - bullets - but because the instructor is constrained also.

Save for multi-media rich environments and marketing tools, please drop this open wound of a lecture/presentation method.

CNN.com - Does PowerPoint make us stupid? - Dec. 30, 2003

jebjeb · Dec 31, 2006, 07:37 AM

PowerPoint only sucks when it is used incorrectly, which unfortunately is about 95% of the time.

My philosophy with Presentations is that if you actually handed out the presentation that was on screen to someone who had not seen you present it, it would make sense but wouldn't tell the whole story or complete the picture. Handouts and presentations are not the same thing!

A presentation should be there to push out the main ideas of what the presenter is talking about. It is not a lecture or course guide.

Check out Presentation Zen for many ways on how it can be done properly.

PowerPoint doesn't make us stupid, lazy or ineffective presenters do.

ghporter · Dec 31, 2006, 08:48 AM

PowerPoint is easily used-and easily MISused. I cannot begin to list the number of times I've had to sit through badly composed, badly thought out, and badly executed presentations-and not all of these have been PowerPoint presentations! The problem is that it is so easy to put stuff together with PowerPoint that ANYONE can do it. It's just that not everyone can do it well, nor does everyone have enough sense to see that less is more in terms of the bells and whistles PowerPoint provides.

I think it's appropriate to slap people's hands when they put in any but the most subtle and simple transitions, use any color scheme that includes colors on opposite sides of the color wheel, and when they put too much crap on each slide.

Worse than all of these: people who READ THEIR DAMN SLIDES TO YOU DURING THEIR PRESENTATION!!!!! WTF people? If i can't even READ then why am I at your bleeding presentation anyway? The ONLY excuses for reading anything verbatim from a slide is when it is the ONE CRUCIAL POINT of the presentation, or ABSOLUTE PRECISION is critical. Holy crap, people, THINK!!!

But other than that, I have no real interest in the matter.

Mastrap · Dec 31, 2006, 09:59 AM

It's part of my job to present reasonably complex ideas to people with sometimes little knowledge if the matter presented. I use PP (actually I use Keynote) as sparingly as possible. I will pull up key points, but I will only pull them up on screen after I have talked about them.
I also use Keynote to present media clips, which it does beautifully.

imitchellg5 · Dec 31, 2006, 10:57 AM

I never use PowerPoint. I always use Keynote. It's more professional IMO.

Wiskedjak · Dec 31, 2006, 11:30 AM

With Keynote, it is easier to make much nicer looking presentations than with PowerPoint. However, it is also easier to make much worse presentations.

Ultimately, the quality of the presentation relies upon the presenter, not the software used to make the presentation. And, even the best looking presentation can fail to be successful.

ink · Dec 31, 2006, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

people who READ THEIR DAMN SLIDES TO YOU DURING THEIR PRESENTATION!!!!! WTF people?

Power
Point
Is
Usually
A
Waste
Of
Time
And
Energy

That said, I agree that it can be used effectively. Larry Wall is a genius with presentation software (although I don't think he uses PowerPoint...):

State of the Onion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
perl.com: The State of the Onion 10

Chuckit · Dec 31, 2006, 02:10 PM

Amen to both points. But especially the one about posing for pictures. People almost seem to expect it nowadays, so they'll drop whatever interesting thing they were doing and just stand there if they see me pointing a camera at them. Argh.

PowerPoint also sucks for most of the things it's used for, though it's useful for some things (e.g. it is a waste of my time to draw out a chart and graph of our freakin' sales numbers to illustrate a trend).

keekeeree · Dec 31, 2006, 03:54 PM

PowerPoint never works unless you incorporate lots of really cool lens flares:

Peter · Dec 31, 2006, 04:00 PM

unfortunatley there are 0 alternatives to PowerPoint on the windows platform.

andi*pandi · Dec 31, 2006, 04:11 PM

powerpoint should supplement the lectures, but not replace the scribbling on the board. I like it when the prof makes the slides/pdf available for review, it saves a lot of notetaking--but it is not the complete story.

His Dudeness · Dec 31, 2006, 05:00 PM

Here's a secret to the eventual overthrow of the Navy:

Take away Powerpoint from the Navy. It will cease to function and will wither away into nothingness.

imitchellg5 · Dec 31, 2006, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Peter

unfortunatley there are 0 alternatives to PowerPoint on the windows platform.

Ehh not really. There are a few, I can't remember the names off of the top of my head.

besson3c · Dec 31, 2006, 05:34 PM

Why is Keynote more professional than Powerpoint?

Nifty looking transitions don't mean squat, since the vast majority of the time they are overused and tacky.

I agree that Powerpoint/Keynote is fine for emphasizing key points only, but that most presentations are poorly done, partially because it makes it easy for the presenter to put a focus on the tool rather than the content itself.

imitchellg5 · Dec 31, 2006, 06:51 PM

It has cleaner themes and fonts. The transitions in Keynote aren't as tacky as the ones in PowerPoint IMO.

mitchell_pgh · Dec 31, 2006, 06:53 PM

Some of my favorite photos are posed. Saying that posed photos are outdated, etc. is just silly.

Regarding PowerPoint, it's very useful when trying to convey big ideas in a limited amount of time. It's best used in combination with other teaching techniques, etc. but to say it shouldn't be used is foolish.

Could you imagine a MacWorld without Keynote?

Steve Jobs is a master presenter. I think he knows what works.

besson3c · Dec 31, 2006, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

It has cleaner themes and fonts. The transitions in Keynote aren't as tacky as the ones in PowerPoint IMO.

I don't think any of this matters. A good presentation is about its content and organization, not about its flash. Flash ought to be, by far, the least important element of a good presentation.

Millennium · Dec 31, 2006, 07:50 PM

PowerPoint need not be so bad for presentation as it is. The problem is that rather than attempting to help the user present the information in truly useful ways, it's totally free-form: the only templates seem to deal in useless fluff rather than gearing toward presenting certain kinds of information.

This leaves people who aren't trained in communications -i.e. just about all of us- lost in the fog, and so is it any wonder that they grope about blindly and end up producing crap? They don't know any better, and the software makes no attempt to teach them.

Chuckit · Dec 31, 2006, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Some of my favorite photos are posed. Saying that posed photos are outdated, etc. is just silly.

Even in posed photos, unless we're talking about professional photoshoot stuff, I find what usually makes them worthwhile are the spontaneous aspects. Photos that are just people standing there not acting like themselves don't have any kind of action or emotional resonance, so I don't see why a photo like that would be one of your favorites.

mitchell_pgh · Dec 31, 2006, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Even in posed photos, unless we're talking about professional photoshoot stuff, I find what usually makes them worthwhile are the spontaneous aspects. Photos that are just people standing there not acting like themselves don't have any kind of action or emotional resonance, so I don't see why a photo like that would be one of your favorites.

You are talking in absolutes.

I'm not talking about the old style family reunion photos where there are rows and rows of people all lined up. I'm talking about posed shots where the group will get together for the photo. Sure, spontaneous photos are great, but it's simply not realistic when you need one photo to capture the entire group.

I have a great photo of my friends just after a canoeing trip. Nobody is acting like anything... and while there might not be "action" there is a ton of emotional energy.

Posed DOES NOT mean stiff as a board or bland.

Salty · Dec 31, 2006, 08:40 PM

It all depends I have some great photos that people posed for, but typically I get them with either a photo when they're not looking, and then I snap a quick one after they decided to smile. I never give people time to over think a photo cause then they're just awkward.

As for PPT, and Keynote. General wise rule of thumb. Avoid quotes, power point should have up the main points that you're presenting on, briefly so that people can remember what you're talking about if they tuned out for a second, or if they took notes and are rereading them.

The OT Prof at school uses PPT masterfully, someday hopefully he'll use Keynote. He puts up major things that need to be taken down, and will give major topics, other than that he just flat out lectures. If he wants a visual of something he's talking about, it'll be up there.
For my Education classes the Prof uses PPT differently but she lectures mainly so that you know what to take down, and so you get great notes, probably the best I have for any class, and you get a good lecture.
Our communications prof however is ironically the worst of the PPT using profs. He uses all the tacky animations, all the crappy sound effects on ever bullet. Apparently he's got lots of connections in Canadian Media companies but dang do his classes suck! I think I went to about 5 last semester (there's 2 a week haha).

I've found that students often lean toward PPT because they don't want to be seen and instead want their info to be scene. Ironically we're also more comfortable tuning out during a PPT slide show. In my environmental science class I got up, was animated, actually a lil subdued because the room was too warm, talked about processor architecture and actually got the class's attention because I didn't have a PPT slide show.

I've found keynote generally makes the slide show go better just because it looks classier. But when given the option of having yet another slide show, or just presenting lately I've gaken to just presenting.

imitchellg5 · Dec 31, 2006, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

You are talking in absolutes.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes

Chuckit · 08:59 PM

Posed photos? Wipe them out. All of them.

jcadam · Dec 31, 2006, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

PowerPoint is easily used-and easily MISused. I cannot begin to list the number of times I've had to sit through badly composed, badly thought out, and badly executed presentations-and not all of these have been PowerPoint presentations! The problem is that it is so easy to put stuff together with PowerPoint that ANYONE can do it. It's just that not everyone can do it well, nor does everyone have enough sense to see that less is more in terms of the bells and whistles PowerPoint provides.

I think it's appropriate to slap people's hands when they put in any but the most subtle and simple transitions, use any color scheme that includes colors on opposite sides of the color wheel, and when they put too much crap on each slide.

Worse than all of these: people who READ THEIR DAMN SLIDES TO YOU DURING THEIR PRESENTATION!!!!! WTF people? If i can't even READ then why am I at your bleeding presentation anyway? The ONLY excuses for reading anything verbatim from a slide is when it is the ONE CRUCIAL POINT of the presentation, or ABSOLUTE PRECISION is critical. Holy crap, people, THINK!!!

But other than that, I have no real interest in the matter.

Reminds me of my Army days. As a staff officer, I would have to prepare my weekly status brief to the boss with PowerPoint (he also had a thing for pretty charts and graphs, and an aversion to numbers and tables) - and 99.9% of his comments to me (and the other staff weenies) had to do with formatting, font choice, colors, etc. The actual information being briefed was rarely discussed.

kick52 · Dec 31, 2006, 10:33 PM

i hate the little school kids that make stupid slides with loads of weird, happy colours, and use 5000000000 transitions.

Wiskedjak · Jan 1, 2007, 12:06 AM

If I use a transition, the only one I will ever use is the fade. I find anything else, PowerPoint or Keynote, to be tacky.

Salty · Jan 1, 2007, 04:40 AM

Cube, blinds, mosaic I don't mid, those sorts. The others they only belong in certain scenarios. Most PPT ones suck.

Wiskedjak · Jan 1, 2007, 10:27 AM

I find cube, while very cool visually, to be among the most distracting, and therefore worst, transitions.

imitchellg5 · Jan 1, 2007, 11:31 AM

It works for Steve J., but most people abuse it.

ghporter · Jan 1, 2007, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by jcadam

Reminds me of my Army days. As a staff officer, I would have to prepare my weekly status brief to the boss with PowerPoint (he also had a thing for pretty charts and graphs, and an aversion to numbers and tables) - and 99.9% of his comments to me (and the other staff weenies) had to do with formatting, font choice, colors, etc. The actual information being briefed was rarely discussed.

While in the Air Force, I ran into "official PowerPoint themes," "official PowerPoint color schemes" and "authorized/mandatory transitions" for "official" presentations. These were, of course, neither well publicized nor well thought out. The lovely "you didn't read my mind, but it's official so you're in the dog house" mentality was rampant in some levels of some organizations. Fortunately, all the brass I dealt with was more interested in content than formatting-unless the formatting was BAD and distracting. Working for the IG was a Good Thing, because not only did my Command IG have a real mission and knew what it was, the IG office as a whole knew how to use PowerPoint effectively and without excessive and useless crap thrown in. What a breath of fresh air!

freudling · Jan 1, 2007, 05:58 PM

Like I said, PowerPoint has some uses (media rich stuff or marketing tool). Other than that, it sould be wiped clean.

What also ingrained the material when our Biochem prof had to present with the whiteboard instead of PowerPoint was the fact that we had to take notes. Taking notes helps commit the material to long-term memory. PowerPoint on the screen or printed off, doesn't have this effect.

Posed for pics. Stupid stupid. Posed for pics have their uses (i.e. staff shot for a website), but if you can get candid shots of all categories of pics why not? Sorry, out with the old, in with the new generation.

mduell · Jan 2, 2007, 02:57 AM

PowerPoint (and Keynote) certainly can be misused. But in the right hands, they can also make excellent presentations that couldn't be done with a white board.

This is one of my favorite presentations of all time: OSCON 2005 Keynote - Identity 2.0
Even if you don't care about the underlying material, the presentation is just amazing.

macintologist · Jan 2, 2007, 03:43 AM

If you want to make a good presentation, just watch Steve Job's keynotes and everything the way he does it. He's the Yoda of presentations.

freudling · Jan 2, 2007, 03:57 AM

mduell:

That presentation sucked. Sorry, I understand you think it is amazing, but all it was was some guy from Vancouver, who sounded like a drone throughout, ramble about identity shoving keywords in my face. Doing all the visualizations for me. I don't need anyone to do that for me. I will visualize and connect ideas in the way I see fit: the way my mind naturally maps out and connects ideas.

Glorified bullet points.

Jellytussle · Jan 2, 2007, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

PowerPoint (and Keynote) certainly can be misused. But in the right hands, they can also make excellent presentations that couldn't be done with a white board.

This is one of my favorite presentations of all time: OSCON 2005 Keynote - Identity 2.0
Even if you don't care about the underlying material, the presentation is just amazing.

Damn, I came in here just to post that. Still, I think that part of its appeal is its freshness. Can you imagine if every presentation was like that?

Jan 2, 2007, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Worse than all of these: people who READ THEIR DAMN SLIDES TO YOU DURING THEIR PRESENTATION!!!!! WTF people? If i can't even READ then why am I at your bleeding presentation anyway? The ONLY excuses for reading anything verbatim from a slide is when it is the ONE CRUCIAL POINT of the presentation, or ABSOLUTE PRECISION is critical. Holy crap, people, THINK!!!

It's even better when they also hand out a paper copy of all the slides to "follow along" with while they read them verbatim.

This seems to be a popular pastime in technical training classes I've taken. Usually, complete wastes of time and money. Just give me the paper copy and I'll read it on my own time in a quarter of the time it takes the instructor to read the same things aloud.