Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

mjamieself · Oct 23, 2002, 05:05 PM

I went to the new Orlando Apple store the other day and talked to the Mac "Genius" about a problem. When I connect my 24" crt to my dual 867 G4 I usually get a very limited choice of resolutions and refresh rates. (The additional scan rates are listed but greyed out.) But SOMEtimes when I boot/reboot, the display prefs panel shows ALL possible resolution and refresh combinations. It is then, with the planets all aligned, that I have Mac-nirvana.

The "Genius" immediately said it was the monitor's fault - that it was incompatible with the G4. He said there was no solution. Didn't offer a terminal command to force a resolution. Didn't offer a way to reset the Mac's default resolution. Didn't tell me to trash prefs or zap PRAM. Didn't tell me to/to not turn off the ddc. Didn't suggest another video card/cable. Didn't suggest the G4 needs a 7-pin on the cable. Didn't suggest a dongle with DIP switches.

Anybody smarter than this "Genius"???

(BTW, I've tried 2 ATI cards, 2 nVidia cards, 2 different cables, an OS X server command line from an AKB article, zapping PRAM, and trashing prefs. I've ordered a full 15 pin cable (with the #7 pin). I'll then order a dongle with DIP switches.)

JLL · Oct 23, 2002, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by mjamieself:
Didn't offer a terminal command to force a resolution. Didn't offer a way to reset the Mac's default resolution. Didn't tell me to trash prefs or zap PRAM. Didn't tell me to/to not turn off the ddc. Didn't suggest another video card/cable. Didn't suggest the G4 needs a 7-pin on the cable. Didn't suggest a dongle with DIP switches.

Why should he? It didn't work

juanvaldes · Oct 23, 2002, 05:41 PM

Have you unchecked "Show modes recommended by display"? Under Monitors in Sys Prefs.

thanatos · Oct 23, 2002, 06:00 PM

Boot your computer with your monitor disconected. Then plug it in. It will then show you all the resolutions...

I have never spoken to an Apple Genius, but the people they have on phone support don't know much. They have never helped me with a problem. It has always been me who called them back to tell them the solution I found by experimenting myself or serching in forums.

mjamieself · Oct 23, 2002, 06:53 PM

Yes, I unchecked the display modes option.

And he should have at least OFFERED some suggestions! I hate it when support people take the easy way out. I HATE IT, HATE IT, HATE IT!

I need a drink...

I'll try plugging the monitor in like thanatos suggested.

Doerak- · Oct 23, 2002, 07:25 PM

It is not your monitor. I have the same problem with a EIZO 17" F56. Proberply a bug.

K++ · Oct 23, 2002, 07:33 PM

Do this:
Restart your computer and hold down the right shift button. The computer talks to your monitor and finds out what it supports and will set your monitor to the native resolution, then when you check the prefs you should see all your available resolutions.

mjamieself · Oct 23, 2002, 07:37 PM

Nope, the plugging in while the G4 is on didn't work. I tried plugging and unplugging, turning the monitor on and off.

Sometimes the menubar icon for displays shows "Detect Monitors" and sometimes it doesn't.

I know this machine and video card are capable of driving the monitor at several higher resolutions and different refresh rates, because it occasionally works just fine. And it works in OS 9 with a shareware control panel (Multi- Resolutions).

Any suggestions from you geniuses out there?
--jamie

chatwood2 · Oct 23, 2002, 08:54 PM

try the ghead adaptor from dr bott, its a $20 pass-thourgh video cable dongle. It tricks the mac into thinking that the monitor attached is capable of every size and refresh rate.

- Chris

MacManMikeOSX · Oct 23, 2002, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by mjamieself:
I went to the new Orlando Apple store the other day and talked to the Mac "Genius" about a problem. When I connect my 24" crt to my dual 867 G4 I usually get a very limited choice of resolutions and refresh rates. (The additional scan rates are listed but greyed out.) But SOMEtimes when I boot/reboot, the display prefs panel shows ALL possible resolution and refresh combinations. It is then, with the planets all aligned, that I have Mac-nirvana.

The "Genius" immediately said it was the monitor's fault - that it was incompatible with the G4. He said there was no solution. Didn't offer a terminal command to force a resolution. Didn't offer a way to reset the Mac's default resolution. Didn't tell me to trash prefs or zap PRAM. Didn't tell me to/to not turn off the ddc. Didn't suggest another video card/cable. Didn't suggest the G4 needs a 7-pin on the cable. Didn't suggest a dongle with DIP switches.

Anybody smarter than this "Genius"???

(BTW, I've tried 2 ATI cards, 2 nVidia cards, 2 different cables, an OS X server command line from an AKB article, zapping PRAM, and trashing prefs. I've ordered a full 15 pin cable (with the #7 pin). I'll then order a dongle with DIP switches.)

next time he says no solution insult his intellgence and geekyness you might get a solution out of him, or not.

mjamieself · Oct 23, 2002, 09:22 PM

The "right shift" trick didn't do anything that I could tell regarding the display. (I think it did disable my wacom graphire tablet.)

I just ordered the gHead via overnight express. Thanks for the help! Let's hope it works as well in OS X as the screenshot shows in OS 9.

http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?code=0101-GHED

I've also got a compucable vga adapter coming that may help. A lot of this stuff is gonna end up on eBay...maybe the monitor too!

See...now why couldn't the "Genius" suggest some of the things you guys have!?!?

"Idiot..."

Later,
--jamie

k2director · Oct 24, 2002, 03:35 AM

When the first Apple store opened in Glendale, CA, I was pretty impressed with the Genius they had on hand for opening day.

But since then, the guys behind the Bar have gone from Genius to only just somewhat-well-informned.

You know you're in trouble when you go up to the Bar, and the Genius starts looking up your problem in the Apple Knowledge Base.

ShotgunEd · Oct 24, 2002, 04:12 AM

Originally posted by K++:
Do this:
Restart your computer and hold down the right shift button. The computer talks to your monitor and finds out what it supports and will set your monitor to the native resolution, then when you check the prefs you should see all your available resolutions.

Computer: Hey baby, fancy supporting some naughty resolutions?
Monitor: giggle giggle...

eno · Oct 24, 2002, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by mjamieself:
I went to the new Orlando Apple store the other day and talked to the Mac "Genius" about a problem. When I connect my 24" crt to my dual 867 G4 I usually get a very limited choice of resolutions and refresh rates.

...

The "Genius" immediately said it was the monitor's fault - that it was incompatible with the G4. He said there was no solution.

Jeez.... lighten up and lose the tone! I admit these dudes aren't always up to true "Genius" standard, but I have to ask you: WHAT THE F DO YOU EXPECT?

How much experience do you think this genius has had plugging TWENTY-FOUR INCH CRTs into Macs? For that matter, how much experience has anybody?

Given that Apple only sells LCDs nowadays anyway I think he was perfectly within his rights to tell you it's "unsupported" because, quite frankly, it IS unsupported. Sounds like he was smarter than you give him credit for, seeing as he was wise enough not to bother recommending to you all the dumb tricks that everybody's been telling you in the thread which haven't worked.

You don't even mention the brand. What is it? Poonsonic or something? Bah.

You should've bought an Apple LCD or two.

Targon · Oct 24, 2002, 03:17 PM

try switch res

NathanA · Oct 24, 2002, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by mjamieself:

I'll try plugging the monitor in like thanatos suggested.

You don't have to unplug the monitor, just startup your computer with the monitor powered off. Then give your machine ample time to completely boot before turning the display on. That will achieve the same thing.

This will show you all the resolutions that the graphics card can support regardless of whether or not the display can handle them.

Part of your problem may be the Apple DVI->VGA adapter, it doesn't have all the probe pins required for some monitors. I had the same problem on my Dual 867 until I replaced the Apple adapter with one supplied by ATI for a Radoen 8500.

-Nathan

SecretAgentX · Oct 25, 2002, 04:04 AM

Originally posted by k2director:
When the first Apple store opened in Glendale, CA, I was pretty impressed with the Genius they had on hand for opening day.

But since then, the guys behind the Bar have gone from Genius to only just somewhat-well-informned.

You know you're in trouble when you go up to the Bar, and the Genius starts looking up your problem in the Apple Knowledge Base.

And I suppose the Geni should all know EVERYTHING just off the cuff?

Get real. They are smart because they know where to find the solution�not because they already know the solution.

Appleman · Oct 25, 2002, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by thanatos:
I have never spoken to an Apple Genius, but the people they have on phone support don't know much. They have never helped me with a problem. It has always been me who called them back to tell them the solution I found by experimenting myself or serching in forums.

RIGHT!

ollio · Oct 25, 2002, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by SecretAgentX:

And I suppose the Geni should all know EVERYTHING just off the cuff?

Get real. They are smart because they know where to find the solution�not because they already know the solution.

off topic: plural of Genius is Genii

Appleman · Oct 25, 2002, 06:43 AM

I recently bought a 20" Apple Colorsync crt and hooked it up to my Ti500.

The way it works is quite random indeed. Most of the times it does understand the resolution options, but sometimes get confused with the two screens. It's not completely foolproof.
Choosing "detect new displays" mostly works.
It's buggy. Because sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

OreoCookie · Oct 25, 2002, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by mjamieself:
I went to the new Orlando Apple store the other day and talked to the Mac "Genius" about a problem. When I connect my 24" crt to my dual 867 G4 I usually get a very limited choice of resolutions and refresh rates. (The additional scan rates are listed but greyed out.) But SOMEtimes when I boot/reboot, the display prefs panel shows ALL possible resolution and refresh combinations. It is then, with the planets all aligned, that I have Mac-nirvana.

The "Genius" immediately said it was the monitor's fault - that it was incompatible with the G4. He said there was no solution. Didn't offer a terminal command to force a resolution. Didn't offer a way to reset the Mac's default resolution. Didn't tell me to trash prefs or zap PRAM. Didn't tell me to/to not turn off the ddc. Didn't suggest another video card/cable. Didn't suggest the G4 needs a 7-pin on the cable. Didn't suggest a dongle with DIP switches.

Anybody smarter than this "Genius"???

(BTW, I've tried 2 ATI cards, 2 nVidia cards, 2 different cables, an OS X server command line from an AKB article, zapping PRAM, and trashing prefs. I've ordered a full 15 pin cable (with the #7 pin). I'll then order a dongle with DIP switches.)

In this case,, the Apple genious is right.. There is just an out--dated mpg (or so the company is called) video card that supports the special resolutions..

If you are talking about a 24" widescreen monitor..

sniffer · Oct 25, 2002, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by eno:

Jeez.... lighten up and lose the tone! I admit these dudes aren't always up to true "Genius" standard, but I have to ask you: WHAT THE F DO YOU EXPECT?

How much experience do you think this genius has had plugging TWENTY-FOUR INCH CRTs into Macs? For that matter, how much experience has anybody?

Given that Apple only sells LCDs nowadays anyway I think he was perfectly within his rights to tell you it's "unsupported" because, quite frankly, it IS unsupported. Sounds like he was smarter than you give him credit for, seeing as he was wise enough not to bother recommending to you all the dumb tricks that everybody's been telling you in the thread which haven't worked.

You don't even mention the brand. What is it? Poonsonic or something? Bah.

You should've bought an Apple LCD or two.

You don't know how much stuff genius sits on before you actually meet a real one. I am at the moment at a pc usersupport team at a huge central hospital, and I promise you, some of these guys working here do know a few things or two. No kidding. True genius excists.

mrmister · Oct 25, 2002, 09:02 AM

I am of two minds. It sucks that some of the Apple Geniuses aren't as sharp as we'd like to see them be, and while they use Knowledge Base they should definitely not be beholden to it--I feel an average AG should be able to answer a lot of daily issues from his general store of knowledge...like I do.

At the same time, I have to say that my encounters with them have been pretty damn good.

tpitts1 · Oct 25, 2002, 09:21 AM

nevermind me:o

mjamieself · Oct 25, 2002, 01:13 PM

chatwood2 is a Genius in my book!! The ghead adapter from Dr. Bott worked!! It works on BOTH of the ATI cards I have installed (one AGP, one PCI).

FYI, SwitchRes didn't work.

FYI, fully booting the computer then turning on the monitor did NOT give me all the resolutions available.

FYI, (NathanA) I've tried 4 different cards and the missing resolution problem happens intermittently with each; suggesting that it is not the card at issue.

And to all the people defending the Geniuses/Genii (the dictionary lists both forms as acceptable), my point was that he could have - even, SHOULD have - at least offered some suggestions. He acted like it couldn't possibly be OS X that was the problem. The Genius was exemplary of all the lazy tech people (and I know there are plenty who DO know their stuff) who don't want to be bothered helping a customer and take the lazy way out, blaming the 3rd party. Which of us hasn't had that happen?? Tech support people won't know everything, but when they won't even try to help solve the problem then they are NOT doing their job.

Thank you everyone for your help! Thank you to the MacNN community. And for those of you who just had negative things to say - many off topic - one day maybe you'll have a problem that we can help with.

Sincerely,
--jamie

melanie · Oct 25, 2002, 04:32 PM

I passed on a job as an Apple Genius (didn't want to work weekends) and you had me stumped...I would NEVER have given that answer "that it was incompatible with the G4" instead I would have asked you to enjoy the store, look around a bit while I find the answer...and if I couldn't find it then I would have taken your email address or and sent you the answer when I found it...that is customer service. I would have looked at the apple site then here and probably posted a query in this group looking for an answer...I have a 24" crt connected to a G4 without any issues...would have stumped me.

Miniryu · Oct 25, 2002, 07:46 PM

Sure I'm smarter than an Apple Genius. I may not know more about Macs than one, but I'm smarter.

chatwood2 · Oct 25, 2002, 08:34 PM

glad I could help.

- Chris

Kristoff · Oct 26, 2002, 01:38 AM

mjamieself, great to hear...

I am about to buy that Dr. Bott thingy.

I have a Hitachi SuperScan 753 that fully supports 120 Hz @ 1280x1024 on Windows and Linux w/XF86, but only shows 80Hz with OS X.

The eye-strain difference between 80Hz and 120Hz is amazing when you work over 16 hours a day at the thing (been moonlighting lately).

The $20 will be well spent if it does work.

Thanks for sharing your results with us!

And thanks to chatwood2 for the tip!

The Evener · Oct 27, 2002, 06:02 AM

Maybe they should have Apple Geniuses responsible for certain items ie. PowerBook/iBook genius, G4 tower genius, etc. Probably too cumbersome to implement, but in many ways you'll encounter a host of issues playing with a tower (ie. swapping cards, drives, etc) you'll never encounter with a laptop, and vice versa. I suspect the Apple Gs have to be pretty sharp since they're getting it from all platform angles.

Mojo-ike · Oct 27, 2002, 03:16 PM

okay, how about this one i asked the other week: are most games able to take advantage of the 22 and 23 wide screens? ie, do the quake games (especially 3) display in widescreen format? if they dont apprreciate the widescreen and preferr the standard sizes do they black bar it?

Jeff75 · Oct 27, 2002, 06:16 PM

Be sure your monitor is plugged in and fully powered on before you start up. If the monitor isn't fully on, your Mac can't query it for all the resolutions it's capable of.

I encountered the same problem when I was fooling around swapping SCSI drives in my new dual gig mirror. I duitifully powered down my 5-yr old CRT monitor before disconnecting it from the Mac.
Sometimes I would forget to turn on the monitor before restarting the Mac. When I did, I didn't get the choice of resolution.

All I had to do was fully power on the CRT monitor BEFORE (re)starting and the full range of resolutions were available. What I describe was repeatable and predictable.

rlmorel · Oct 27, 2002, 08:00 PM

Hey come on folks. Take it easy on the genius bar folks. In all of your working life, haven't you worked with people who were not up to snuff? It happens.

My experiences with the Apple Genius Bar workers at the Peabody Massachusetts store have been fun and informative.

Adam Betts · Oct 27, 2002, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by Miniryu:
Sure I'm smarter than an Apple Genius. I may not know more about Macs than one, but I'm smarter.

I wouldn't want you to be an Apple Genius. I've read your previous post and you don't know that much about mac, honestly.

Since EBCDIC · Oct 28, 2002, 02:29 AM

My various experiences with the Apple Geniuses have been no better than fair, ever.

Not one of them seemed to have any serious background of time with the Mac. Not one of them wanted to go out of their way to suggest solutions that weren't obvious or from the solutions database. Not one of them wanted to follow up.

I have found USENET and MacNN to be a thousand times better than the Apple Geniuses.

Perhaps it's the title "Apple Genius" that's the problem. If Steve Jobs ever asks me I'll suggest that they change it to "Maybe not a Genius, but smarter than 78 per cent of you".