[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Yes, it's only four times the size of a phone. But somehow if you double the size to 10" that makes it completely different.

Yes, it does. 7" is still too small for comfortable web browsing, as the article explains. I have two tablets that size, and I wholeheartedly agree with their conclusion.

[imitchellg5]

But a 3.5" phone is more comfortable?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

But a 3.5" phone is more comfortable?

Like I said before:

For media consumption, a 9"+ device is far superior. It's one of the reasons why the iPad, and the Transformer, to a lesser extent, has been so wildly successful. The thing is, for entertainment, you need something that's either ultra portable or has generous screen real estate. A smart phone covers the first, a larger tablet the second, but a smallish tablet is neither.

A 7" tablet still isn't big enough to comfortably browse the web, not without lots of "finger acrobatics" going on, and links that are close together are a pain in the ass to touch. With a larger tablet, you just turn it landscape and it's great.

Don't get me wrong, I think the 7" Fire will sell well, at first. Then ebay and Craig's list will get flooded with them because many people will be dissatisfied. Then, the 7" will be forgotten when the larger Fire comes out, and Amazon will forget it too.

[Eug]

On a 7" unit I probably only ever use it in landscape mode, including for web browsing. (I wouldn't read a book on it.)

BTW, I've decided the iPhone is quite painful for video on the plane. I actually use my laptop for that. (The iPad stays home.) The iPhone is fine for YouTube videos, but for movies I don't like it.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Eug 

On a 7" unit I probably only ever use it in landscape mode, including for web browsing. (I wouldn't read a book on it.)

BTW, I've decided the iPhone is quite painful for video on the plane. I actually use my laptop for that. (The iPad stays home.) The iPhone is fine for YouTube videos, but for movies I don't like it.

Even in landscape a 7" tablet is too small, it is on my Nook color and it is on my Galaxy Tab. Just a little more screen real estate is the fix, and that allows for a larger battery to boot, solving another problem. I take my iPad quite a few places, especially on trips. I haven't opened my MBP in... damn, probably since I upgraded it to Lion.

[Lateralus]

I had a TouchPad for a while, which is essentially identical to the size of the iPad and... 9" is just too large to be truly portable. I hope 7" tablets carve out their piece of the market because it's the only way I'll ever own one again.

[Shaddim]

Meh, I carry my small messenger bag with me most places anyway, and the iPad fits in it perfectly. It definitely beats the bulk of a notebook.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Meh, I carry my small messenger bag with me most places anyway, and the iPad fits in it perfectly. It definitely beats the bulk of a notebook.

The point is: different people have different tastes and needs, and 7" tablets fit those needs for some people (eg: beating the bulk of a 10" tablet).

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

I had a TouchPad for a while, which is essentially identical to the size of the iPad and... 9" is just too large to be truly portable. I hope 7" tablets carve out their piece of the market because it's the only way I'll ever own one again.

Oh not this again. Minority that eludes to being the majority.

Saying a 9" tablet isn't portable is absurd. An iPad weighs 1.32 pounds and is razor thin. To say it isn't portable is the most ridiculous statement I've seen in the past 22 hours.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

The point is: different people have different tastes and needs, and 7" tablets fit those needs for some people (eg: beating the bulk of a 10" tablet).

Maybe a very small %, like 2-4, maybe. It's such a crappy size. Too big for a regular pocket, not big enough for browsing comfort. Bleh.

Then there's the lag in Android, and slow browser, and memory leaks, the so-so quality apps and crappy app stores, no 3G, annoying ads everywhere (unless you root and install AdFree).

I wish, I wish iOS had the flexibility and customization potential of Android, without requiring a JB. Oh well.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Oh not this again. Minority that eludes to being the majority.

Saying a 9" tablet isn't portable is absurd. An iPad weighs 1.32 pounds and is razor thin. To say it isn't portable is the most ridiculous statement I've seen in the past 22 hours.

The iPad is no more portable than the MacBook Air, and you'd never try to sell that to somebody looking for a tablet. Well, you might.

A piece of paper can be razor thin, weigh only ounces... and yet be measured in square yards.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

The iPad is no more portable than the MacBook Air, and you'd never try to sell that to somebody looking for a tablet. Well, you might.

Actually the iPad 2 is thinner, weighs half as much, doesn't take nearly as much space to operate, and gets better battery life. Then there's the issue of not being able to touch browse, which is much better than a trackpad. Yeah, there are some portability issues there, quite a few.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

The iPad is no more portable than the MacBook Air, and you'd never try to sell that to somebody looking for a tablet. Well, you might.

A piece of paper can be razor thin, weigh only ounces... and yet be measured in square yards.

I just don't get you sometimes... on where you try and take conversations.

Let me distill this down. Neither the iPad, nor the Kindle Fire will fit in your pocket.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I just don't get you sometimes... on where you try and take conversations.

Yes, the man from Mars I am. Along with everybody else who disagrees with you, apparently.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Yes, the man from Mars I am. Along with everybody else who disagrees with you, apparently.

Or, just the man from Arizona, where it gets really hot and people love baseball?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I just don't get you sometimes... on where you try and take conversations.

Let me distill this down. Neither the iPad, nor the Kindle Fire will fit in your pocket.

I have a friend who carries his Galaxy Tab 7 around in his back pocket.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Maybe a very small %, like 2-4, maybe. It's such a crappy size. Too big for a regular pocket, not big enough for browsing comfort. Bleh.

Do you know that for a fact? Or are you just speculating based on your own personal preferences? I'm speculating that there are enough people in the market for Amazon to be able to justify a 7" color ereader that also has Android functionality.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Then there's the lag in Android, and slow browser, and memory leaks, the so-so quality apps and crappy app stores, no 3G, annoying ads everywhere (unless you root and install AdFree).

I agree completely. The Android experience is nowhere near as polished as the iOS experience. It's why I don't own an Android. That said, plenty of people are happy with the Android experience and have explicitly chosen Android over iOS. Again, *our* preferences do not reflect *everyone's* preferences.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Actually the iPad 2 is thinner, weighs half as much, doesn't take nearly as much space to operate, and gets better battery life. Then there's the issue of not being able to touch browse, which is much better than a trackpad. Yeah, there are some portability issues there, quite a few.

Chances are though, if you have room in your bag for an iPad, you have enough room for a MacBook Air. And I'd much rather have an actual computer.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Chances are though, if you have room in your bag for an iPad, you have enough room for a MacBook Air. And I'd much rather have an actual computer.

I guess to you the iPad isn't an actual computer.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I guess to you the iPad isn't an actual computer.

Not until the day that I can do what I actually use a computer for comfortably on the iPad, no. Which likely will be never, since I can't do what I do without a physical keyboard.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Not until the day that I can do what I actually use a computer for comfortably on the iPad, no. Which likely will be never, since I can't do what I do without a physical keyboard.

I see.

To me it does do what a real computer does for me. So to me it is a real computer. Keynote I use. Studiometry Touch: business database. Hmmm, Email. Web surfing. Photoshop. Video. Seems to do the trick for me.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Do you know that for a fact? Or are you just speculating based on your own personal preferences? I'm speculating that there are enough people in the market for Amazon to be able to justify a 7" color ereader that also has Android functionality.

I own 7" tablets, they're good devices just not a good size. Jobs was right, it's a `tweener size and it just doesn't fit well.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Chances are though, if you have room in your bag for an iPad, you have enough room for a MacBook Air. And I'd much rather have an actual computer.

No way. For on the go stuff, the tablet is much better. Not to mention the space limitations, like on a plane. An open laptop takes up so much area, whereas a tablet is much more convenient and comfortable. Also, it may not sound like much, but a pound is a pound, and in a messenger bag that you carry for hours, that can start to seem like a lot.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I have a friend who carries his Galaxy Tab 7 around in his back pocket.

If accidentally he falls on his ass, that's the end of that.

[Uncle Skeleton]

I suspect the real computer / fake computer divide boils down to touch-typing. Does anyone type more than 1 sentence on a touch-screen? Does anyone scoff at tablets even though they never type more than a sentence in the same 5 minutes?
/2¢

[Eug]

It's interesting you mention that. I do surf MacNN on the iPad occasionally, but prefer to do it on a desktop or laptop, because I hate typing on the iPad (or iPhone) for answering posts in MacNN virtual-smackdown fests.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

I suspect the real computer / fake computer divide boils down to touch-typing. Does anyone type more than 1 sentence on a touch-screen? Does anyone scoff at tablets even though they never type more than a sentence in the same 5 minutes?
/2¢

Typing is indeed a bit of a factor, but external keyboards are available.
Processing power, screen real estate and proper file management are the bigger issues for me; I go to the laptop with external display when I use real Photoshop or Aperture. All of my files live on my laptop with copies only on my iPad.

My iPad is used strictly for consumption: web, Flipboard, Zite, Flickr, mobile video. I only ever use it for creation in a pinch; keynote editing, minor photo editing.

If I know I'll be doing some creation, the MBAir goes into my bag rather than the iPad.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

If accidentally he falls on his ass, that's the end of that.

That's very true. I'm only saying that there are some pockets tat a 7" tablet will fit into.

[Shaddim]

I agree. I have cargo pants that have pockets big enough for a 7" tablet, but that's how I almost broke my Nook Color. An opening car door smacked me in the leg and I heard a crunch, luckily I only broke one of the retaining clips to it's protective cover. Still gave me a bit of a scare.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I see.

To me it does do what a real computer does for me. So to me it is a real computer. Keynote I use. Studiometry Touch: business database. Hmmm, Email. Web surfing. Photoshop. Video. Seems to do the trick for me.

I write on average about 30-40 pages a week, I simply can't do that on a tablet. Or work with RAW photos.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

No way. For on the go stuff, the tablet is much better. Not to mention the space limitations, like on a plane. An open laptop takes up so much area, whereas a tablet is much more convenient and comfortable. Also, it may not sound like much, but a pound is a pound, and in a messenger bag that you carry for hours, that can start to seem like a lot.

Perhaps, but the specific reference was a MacBook Air. Yes, I'd rather have a tablet to carry around while traveling instead of my 15" MacBook Pro, but I'd rather have an 11" Air even more.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I see.

To me it does do what a real computer does for me. So to me it is a real computer. Keynote I use. Studiometry Touch: business database. Hmmm, Email. Web surfing. Photoshop. Video. Seems to do the trick for me.

Yes. *To you*

This is what you constantly seem to not get: different people have different needs and preferences. Just because something works for one person doesn't mean that it'll work for you, and visa-versa. What you need from a mobile computing platform is clearly different from what imitchellg5 needs. *Neither of you is wrong*, but you do need different solutions.

(by the way, the iPad doesn't run Photoshop. It runs a pale shadow of Photoshop that doesn't even compare with Photoshop Express in terms of photo manipulation ability. It might suit *your* needs, but it isn't Photoshop)

[Big Mac]

My brother got his Fire today, and I've played with it a bit. We're both pretty impressed. I'll elaborate in a future post, but so far we've only experienced one initial web browser problem that was cured by a reboot, and to me it seem very fast and smooth.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Yes. *To you*

This is what you constantly seem to not get: different people have different needs and preferences. Just because something works for one person doesn't mean that it'll work for you, and visa-versa. What you need from a mobile computing platform is clearly different from what imitchellg5 needs. *Neither of you is wrong*, but you do need different solutions.

(by the way, the iPad doesn't run Photoshop. It runs a pale shadow of Photoshop that doesn't even compare with Photoshop Express in terms of photo manipulation ability. It might suit *your* needs, but it isn't Photoshop)

What's reality? It's been the hottest consumer product since the original launched.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

What's reality? It's been the hottest consumer product since the original launched.

Yes. And it's a great product.

*But it's not a great product for everybody*

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Yes. And it's a great product.

*But it's not a great product for everybody*

We get it dude.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

We get it dude.

And, yet you keep on writing posts that suggest you think everyone should just buy the products you buy and use them the way you use them.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

My brother got his Fire today, and I've played with it a bit. We're both pretty impressed. I'll elaborate in a future post, but so far we've only experienced one initial web browser problem that was cured by a reboot, and to me it seem very fast and smooth.

And everyone ignores the first actual qualified post in this thread...

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

And, yet you keep on writing posts that suggest you think everyone should just buy the products you buy and use them the way you use them.

To be fair, that was what Jobs thought too. In fact, I think he said almost the exact same thing in the book.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

To be fair, that was what Jobs thought too. In fact, I think he said almost the exact same thing in the book.

Sure, and that's *exactly* what he had to think as CEO of Apple. However, the world would be incredibly dull if we all bought the same stuff and all used that stuff the same way ... even if the stuff we all bought was iStuff. The sad reality is that people have individual tastes; most of us are itching for iThings right now, but there are still many people who make a decision for something different, due to a wide variety of preferences and needs.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

And everyone ignores the first actual qualified post in this thread...

I tested one today. Gave it a good go for about an hour. People here are aware of my view of 7" tablets. Aside from that limitation... which made reading suck... I found the device... the software to be a muddled, limited, half-baked approach at a tablet. Going from an iPad, it's like stepping out of an Audi A4 and into a 2 stroke, 3 wheeled, East German rust bucket.

It's like a tablet version of Amazon.com. The problem is, with no Bluetooth, no camera, a limited interface and next to no Apps, it sucks at being a tablet. Then, on how it's purposed to be an eReader, it sucks at this too. Mags and newspapers are brutal, so are textbooks. Novels? Much better on an eInk Reader.

I can't wait to see return rates and actual sell through numbers.

[imitchellg5]

I'm sure you went into it with an open mind.

[Eug]

I checked out an A4, and then bought the cheaper and less peppy and less sleek Prius. Then I bought another Prius 3 years later. The A4 wasn't even a consideration the second time around. Car analogies still always suck though.

P.S. On the iPad I never use Bluetooth, and I never use the camera either. I don't even use the accelerometer. (I have the screen orientation locked.) It also isn't great as an e-reader either. Mags and newspapers? Who cares? I certainly don't. I've deleted those apps off my iPad because they're irrelevant.

[Shaddim]

I suppose I'm amazed that people buy something like an iPad and have no intention of using even 1/3rd of it's potential. That's just baffling.

I read the daily "paper" on mine, browse the web, read email, maintain social networks, watch video blogs, Skype, shopping, read magazines and comics that are automatically delivered, do all my banking, play Pandora to Bluetooth nodes in different rooms, organize various collections, do some casual reading, prepare all my class and study materials, play games. Oh, and it controls my HT, audio systems, lights, network, and security system.

Do you guys only use these things for couch surfing and Angry Birds?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I checked out an A4, and then bought the cheaper and less peppy and less sleek Prius. Then I bought another Prius 3 years later. The A4 wasn't even a consideration the second time around. Car analogies still always suck though.

P.S. On the iPad I never use Bluetooth, and I never use the camera either. I don't even use the accelerometer. (I have the screen orientation locked.) It also isn't great as an e-reader either. Mags and newspapers? Who cares? I certainly don't. I've deleted those apps off my iPad because they're irrelevant.

Because u don't use the camera... because u don't read newspapers and magazines... Etc. therefore, these things ahouldn't matter to anyone?

So the next iPad should ship with a smaller screen, no bluetooth or camera, no accelerometer, no access to Mags and newspapers formatted for its screen...

This way, the iPad will stop penetrating education ad a textbook replacement; people won't be able to use wireless headsets; all those games that use the accelerometer will be DOA, and everytime you switch to a video or reposition on the camera you'll have to manually change orientation...

Ya, this sounds like a major step ahead. I dare u to pitch this to Apple's board. I wonder how far they'd fling u out the window.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Because u don't use the camera... because u don't read newspapers and magazines... Etc. therefore, these things ahouldn't matter to anyone?

So the next iPad should ship with a smaller screen, no bluetooth or camera, no accelerometer, no access to Mags and newspapers formatted for its screen...

No. But, because not everyone uses bluetooth, camera or accelerometer and not everyone reads magazine or newspapers, those aren't necessarily criteria for a successful tablet for everyone.

Originally Posted by freudling 

Ya, this sounds like a major step ahead. I dare u to pitch this to Apple's board. I wonder how far they'd fling u out the window.

We aren't talking about changing the iPad. That product has it's place for a large number of people. We're talking about the Kindle Fire and the customers that has value for.

[imitchellg5]

Who uses the iPad's camera? Seriously, who?

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Who uses the iPad's camera? Seriously, who?

People who enjoy looking like a tool

The Fire will fill a much larger niche than people here think exists. I don't foresee nearly as many returns or resales of the item as someone above claimed. I ordered one that should arrive today and I fully expect to have more utility for it than I would an iPad.

I have a Blackberry and an iPod touch. Both are fine for what they are but the limited size of the screen is a nuisance for extended reading or media consumption.

I have a Macbook Pro so portable computing and the ability to do actual work is covered by that.

A 7 inch tablet that can cover the middle area between the other devices for personal emails (especially ones with photos), an occasional movie/show, and reading periodicals or books. In those areas the Fire is going to be useful and well received.

The Audi comparison is idiotic.
The Fire isn't meant to have as large a range of uses as an iPad. The fact that its UI was pruned down from a normal Android OS configuration to what it is now should be a dead giveaway to even the most obtuse dolt. If someone wants or needs a tablet that does all the things a full fledged device does then go for an iPad or whatever else is in the top tier of the device market. If you have more limited needs because you already have other electronics or for whatever else reason then I think you'll be more than happy with the Fire.

[Spheric Harlot]

^ Agreed in priciple.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I suppose I'm amazed that people buy something like an iPad and have no intention of using even 1/3rd of it's potential. That's just baffling.

Well, I don't encode video 24/7 either with my 12 GB i7 iMac. I guess I'm not using it to its potential.

I read the daily "paper" on mine, browse the web, read email, maintain social networks, watch video blogs, Skype, shopping, read magazines and comics that are automatically delivered, do all my banking, play Pandora to Bluetooth nodes in different rooms, organize various collections, do some casual reading, prepare all my class and study materials, play games. Oh, and it controls my HT, audio systems, lights, network, and security system.

Do you guys only use these things for couch surfing and Angry Birds?

Yes, just that and email, and maybe the occasional video. That's why I'm looking for something smaller and cheaper.

I usually do my banking on my desktop, because that's where my personal finance software resides, on the computer on the desk where I keep all my receipts. No serious reading because I hate the iPad for extended reading, and I control my HT with a Logitech Harmony remote. The remote stays on the couch/coffee table permanently.

ie. The right tool for the right job, not one tool fits all.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Who uses the iPad's camera? Seriously, who?

FaceTime and Skype. Business associates, friends, and family use it all the time.