[andi*pandi]

Did he grow up poor though, or just middle class?

At this point in the campaign I'm getting texts from both parties (or people pretending to be them) asking for money. Like, no. I have my yard signs.

[subego]

I’m only getting texts for local races. I guess my number hasn’t been sold up the chain yet.

Email spam is relentless from both teams though. All ask for money. Curiously, Apple Mail has categorized Trump/Vance spam as junk.

[OreoCookie]

But is money really what is missing? I am under the impression that both sides have plenty of money. Why ask for more? Ok, in Trump's case, I have a good guess. But what about the Democrats?

[andi*pandi]

It used to be for $$$ TV ads. Now with streaming not sure how many eyeballs see ads.

Perhaps all those spammy emails/texts are spendy?

For some reason how much war chest someone has is seen as an indicator of popularity almost as much as voting.

[reader50]

Dems are pretty well set on money. Big advantages across the board, largely from grassroots donations.

Trump was short, unable to match Harris in ad spending outside of PA and Georgia. Recent support from billionaires has made that easier, but I think his ad spends are still short of Harris' in some swing states.

The candidates who are starving for cash are the down-ballot Rs. After taking over the RNC, Lara Trump vowed all that money would go to Trump. It's supposed to support lesser office races across the nation. So R senators, house candidates, governors, state offices -- they're all strapped for cash.

[subego]

From the spam…

“As you read this, we are being outspent by the Trump campaign and right-wing super PACs in key battleground states such as Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona, and North Carolina.

If we lose these states, we lose the election.

We know that sounds scary, but we’re sharing this because there are still nine days to do something about it.”

[reader50]

Someone's doing some gentle lying there. It's true that anyone who loses those 4 states will lose the election. But the last figures I've seen, Trump and Harris are matching spending in PA and GA. Harris is outspending Trump in each of the other 5 swing states. With enough cash to spare, she's been releasing millions to down-ballot Dems. If right-wing PACs increase Trump's cash in swing states, Harris will just match it.

Here are more lies:
• "Your donations will be matched." Or doubled, or tripled. This is BS - there's no special donor doing careful matching. Read all the fine print - the special someone is never identified.
• "We have an upcoming deadline for fundraising." More BS - and the supposed deadline is never identified. They're happy to accept donations even after the election - it rolls over to the next election.

[subego]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Someone's doing some gentle lying there.

Say it ain’t so!!!

[Thorzdad]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

It used to be for $$$ TV ads. Now with streaming not sure how many eyeballs see ads.

The ads are all over streaming, too, especially the big platforms that now do ads. There are also special events (like the World Series) which charge a lot more for ad time. Over the past four WS games, I have seen a metric ton of pro-Trump anti-trans ads, and nary a Harris ad.

[Laminar]

I need to figure out how to share my YouTube premium account with my kids. My son likes watching gaming content on YouTube but he does it without being signed in, so he's getting blasted with political ads. I got my daughter set up on YouTube kids with my account so I think she's ad-free, which is nice.

Hulu is the only ad-supported streaming service we use so I'm just putting off Only Murders until after the election. Or maybe for good? Every single character in that show is annoying and unlikeable. I'd rather watch New Girl reruns.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

The ads are all over streaming, too, especially the big platforms that now do ads. There are also special events (like the World Series) which charge a lot more for ad time. Over the past four WS games, I have seen a metric ton of pro-Trump anti-trans ads, and nary a Harris ad.

Do you use a VPN?

I can see Harris skipping ad spends in red states, but the Trump team should skip them too. Here in CA, I'm only getting snailmail ads for local and state races.

But my VPN is getting me online ads for Trump, Harris, and multiple San Francisco local races. I'm not in that area, and my usual VPN server is in Los Angeles. Someone's trying to match up VPN users to real locations, with lots of wrong guesses.

So I'm thinking the Trump team thinks you're actually in a swing state, while the Harris team doesn't think so. Switch your VPN server to a (different?) swing state, and watch the political ads come in. I wouldn't try a PA server right now. Those guys are getting clobbered.

[Thorzdad]

Nope. No VPN.

[subego]

Just got more spam asking to donate.

[subego]

Please clap

[subego]

I find it hilarious Nick Fuentes is from Berwyn.

[Spheric Harlot]

Bwaaaahahaha

The Onion just bought InfoWars in the bankruptcy sale.

[BLAZE_MkIV]

That amused me. I was kinda hoping they'd do a podcast type show

[Waragainstsleep]

Would have been even funnier if they'd bought Jones' image rights and contract along with. Then made him say stuff he'd hate.

[Thorzdad]

Fun times going down in S. Korea today. President declaring martial law in an attempt to essentially conduct a coup against the legislature.

[Thorzdad]

Republicans don’t care if women are dying due to abortion bans, but they don’t want you to know about them.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

Fun times going down in S. Korea today. President declaring martial law in an attempt to essentially conduct a coup against the legislature.

Some legislators are taking shifts, sleeping in the chamber or their offices. So if their Prez does it again, they can vote martial law away again promptly. Impeachment proceedings are scheduled for Saturday.

Here's hoping they have fewer gutless wonders than we did - maybe they'll pull off the impeachment and protect their country.

[Thorzdad]

S. Korea has a relatively strong (if recent) history of overthrowing dictatorial governments, so I expect the impeachment to go through. The saving grace in all of this, though, was that the military wasn’t all-in on the coup. I hope our own military leaders have similar backbone, and have planned accordingly for what may come.

Trump joked about using martial law in his first regime. This time, though, I wouldn’t discount the threat. The fly in the ointment, here in the US, are the armies individual states have in the form of the national guard. Those are under the command of the governors, which could make things really...interesting.

Here in Indiana, the incoming nutjob governor has already announced he will move command of the national guard and the state police into cabinet positions, which has some observers a bit nervous, as this guy is a bright-red MAGA, and ran on a promise to follow Trump over a legislative cliff.

[reader50]

Martial law isn't a thing in the US - the Constitution has no provision for its own suspension. Not even temporarily during emergencies. The way I read it, martial law can happen in a US territory, but not in a state. So Trump might be able to declare martial law in Puerto Rico or Guam.

[subego]

IIUC, martial law doesn’t suspend the Constitution. It does dick around with habeas corpus.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Here's hoping they have fewer gutless wonders than we did - maybe they'll pull off the impeachment and protect their country.

The story is really weird: apparently, he was the lead prosecutor who led the conviction of former President Park (the daughter of General Park, the former dictator). Due to a shortage of personnel in the Conservative Party due to, well, convictions and scandals, he was selected as the next president. From anti-corruption fighter to attempted dictator.

(This is according to a Korean colleague who keeps me up to date.)

[Thorzdad]

Kind of surprised the United Health CEO shooting hasn’t been mentioned here yet. I am struck by just how “Good. Fuck him” the response seems to be among the general (internet) public, as far as I’ve see, anyway. I’m also struck by the dichotomy between that and the enormous outpouring of resources by the powers-that-be to catch the perpetrator.

It’s like, in one fell swoop, the hatred of healthcare, and especially health insurance, on the part of the general public has finally boiled to the surface for all to see. If they ever catch the guy, I can’t imagine how hard it’s going to be to seat an unbiased jury. I’m betting he’ll “turn his gun on himself” if they ever do catch him.

[reader50]

I figure they'll catch him. He's made mistakes, so it's only a matter of time. We won't know his motive until after he's identified, but the most plausible explanation is that coverage was denied, and he lost someone. Or is scheduled to lose his own life.

We the customers pay our insurance premiums, expecting to be covered when needed. The routine denials of coverage or early cutoffs, leave you facing a choice of bankruptcy or death. At this critical time, you need to hire a lawyer to fight for the coverage you paid for. And the US mostly lacks loser-pays-legal-expenses laws, so even if you win, you're likely out the legal fees.

So you get gypped when you need support the most, and have the least resources to fight back. Even if you win, someone may have died by then, and you still get gypped financially. And insurance companies get rich screwing you over this way. Profiting off people's pain.

Gotta say I'm not feeling sympathetic to the CEO either - he ultimately set or maintained the policies that hurt people. And no doubt took home great stock options.

May I remind you it was UnitedHealth that developed and used the nH Predict AI (2023) to override doctors recommendations and cut off payments if you need above-average-length rehab stays. And since the longer-than-average stays disappeared, the average decreased. Resulting in endlessly-contracting rehab payments. UH case workers get fired if they authorize coverage anyway. The feds banned AI coverage decisions in 2024, but only for Medicare Advantage plans. So far as I know, AI can still override doctors for everyone else.

Oh, and in 2021, UnitedHealth decided to skip paying ER bills if it doesn't believe you had an emergency. It's not clear if this ever went into effect - they delayed it until after the pandemic passed, and it drew heavy criticism.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

Fun times going down in S. Korea today. President declaring martial law in an attempt to essentially conduct a coup against the legislature.

The impeachment effort failed, because the scumbag's own party members boycotted the vote. Staying outside the chamber, on the theory he should resign rather than be removed. Opposition party has scheduled another impeachment vote in a few days.

It has since come out the scumbag had an arrest list he tried to have executed during martial law, including the opposition party leader. Gonna get his enemies.

This all feels kinda familiar.

[OreoCookie]

Yesterday, my family and I met a Korean colleague and his wife, and we followed the vote live. It was really sad that the opposition opted to go down this route, clearly not trusting its members to stick to voting no.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

I am struck by just how “Good. Fuck him” the response seems to be among the general (internet) public, as far as I’ve see, anyway.

Murder is cool now.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by subego 

Murder is cool now.

Yep, I'm seeing this sentiment, and find it between deeply disturbing and outright terrifying.

It highlights how fundamentally broken U.S. healthcare is, and how everybody KNOWS it.

And yet, the president-elect ran in part on repealing Obamacare (without even concepts of a plan for actual reform).

[Thorzdad]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

And yet, the president-elect ran in part on repealing Obamacare (without even concepts of a plan for actual reform).

There are videos on YouTube of Trump supporters applauding repealing “Obamacare” and not understanding (until it’s pointed out to them) that “Obamacare” is the same as the Affordable Care Act, which they use and love.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by subego 

Murder is cool now.

To liberals, you mean?

[subego]

Is this a rhetorical question?

[Laminar]

No. Murder has always been cool to conservatives, as long as it is the murder of a "bad" person by a "good" person. In conservative circles, that's usually the murder of black and brown people by white people. See...every slave hunter, every union buster, every cop shooting, every war, every right wing terrorist and vigilante. Why are George Zimmerman and Kyle Rittenhouse out there giving speeches and autographs? Because murder is and has always been very cool to conservatives.

This is only notable because liberals are saying, "Yeah he got murdered, so what?" This has elicited a "sO mUcH fOr ThE tOlErAnT lEfT" response that always comes from conservatives when liberals dip their toes into a fraction of the horrific things conservatives have always done.

[subego]

I don’t define the Rittenhouse killings as murder. I define them as self defense.

If I sing his praises, I’m not condoning murder. Not saying I’m guiltless, but I’m not guilty of that.

[christ]

There is a certain amount of irony in the two posts above this following each other: saying the same thing from different perspectives.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by subego 

I don’t define the Rittenhouse killings as murder. I define them as self defense.

If I sing his praises, I’m not condoning murder. Not saying I’m guiltless, but I’m not guilty of that.

Yes, the point of politicians, think thanks, and media escalating those stories was because it's very easy to pick a side and define the situation to meet your viewpoint.

Can we go back to my original question?

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

To liberals, you mean?

Think of it as an extra-late term abortion.

[andi*pandi]

If only the healthcare CEO had been holding a skateboard!

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

This is only notable because liberals are saying, "Yeah he got murdered, so what?" This has elicited a "sO mUcH fOr ThE tOlErAnT lEfT" response that always comes from conservatives when liberals dip their toes into a fraction of the horrific things conservatives have always done.

This is a watershed moment, for me, because the instant supposed "liberals" cheered the murder of this guy, they lost any moral high ground they might ever have had.

I've found myself drifting recently from abject terror and empathy for those affected by the inexorable slide into reactionary authoritarianism, to a position of resignation.

The obviously mixed reaction of muffled cheering of this cold-blooded murderer on supposedly liberal talkshows like Colbert or Kimmel undermines the indignation, and their sarcastic take on the morally corrupt right-wing GOP rings hollow now.

I haven't seen them address this.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

This is a watershed moment, for me, because the instant supposed "liberals" cheered the murder of this guy, they lost any moral high ground they might ever have had.

I've found myself drifting recently from abject terror and empathy for those affected by the inexorable slide into reactionary authoritarianism, to a position of resignation.

The slide toward fascism over the past 8 years has certainly had far-reaching effects. I think a lot of people have had the same response as you - going from hope and optimism about the future to hopelessness after seeing one democratic institution after another being demolished. Voting doesn't work anymore. Protesting doesn't work anymore. The government and its built-in protections against internal abuses of power are being intentionally and systematically dismantled. What's the solution? What's the way out?

Conservatives are fine with culture war deaths and liberals are fine with class war deaths? When the billionaire sub collapsed there was certainly a lot of cheering, or at least "so what?" responses from liberals.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Can we go back to my original question?

I never left the original question.

I don’t see Rittenhouse (for example) as comparable to Mangione. One was self defense, one was murder.

I think it’s fair to take issue with me considering the Rittenhouse killings to be self-defense, but that’s a different problem from condoning murder.

[Laminar]

The culture war is continuing to do its job of derailing conversations into semantics.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Conservatives are fine with culture war deaths and liberals are fine with class war deaths? When the billionaire sub collapsed there was certainly a lot of cheering, or at least "so what?" responses from liberals.

An accident resulting from criminal negligence and billionaire hubris is not the same thing as cold-blooded murder.

But then, I don't understand the death penalty, either.

The problem is that I don't want to no longer give a shit about what my American friends bring upon themselves.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

When the billionaire sub collapsed there was certainly a lot of cheering, or at least "so what?" responses from liberals.

I'm not remembering this response. My personal response was it was dumb to deep-dive in a ship made of wrong materials for the application. But I don't recall thinking much about the occupants. Rather, I was thinking the company won't survive the lawsuits.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

The culture war is continuing to do its job of derailing conversations into semantics.

I’m trying to explain the pathology behind why someone might glorify Rittenhouse, and how that’s distinctly different behind the pathology behind glorifying Mangione, which I can’t say I understand.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by subego 

I’m trying to explain the pathology behind why someone might glorify Rittenhouse, and how that’s distinctly different behind the pathology behind glorifying Mangione, which I can’t say I understand.

You're assuming everyone glorifying Rittenhouse is glorifying self-defence. They definitely aren't. Most of them know just as well as we do that he set out to kill and thats what they're glorifying. Enough white privilege to get away with murder.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by reader50 

I'm not remembering this response. My personal response was it was dumb to deep-dive in a ship made of wrong materials for the application. But I don't recall thinking much about the occupants. Rather, I was thinking the company won't survive the lawsuits.

This is pretty representative of the general feel at the time:

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

This is only notable because liberals are saying, "Yeah he got murdered, so what?" This has elicited a "sO mUcH fOr ThE tOlErAnT lEfT" response that always comes from conservatives when liberals dip their toes into a fraction of the horrific things conservatives have always done.

Cheering someone’s death is unacceptable even if the anger and frustration is understandable.

Many Americans feel dehumanized by the US healthcare industry, insurances in particular. I’d be interested to know how many people commit suicide, because they are drowning in medical debt. The stories I hear made me decide to never move to the US permanently as the risk to me and my family is simply too high. A cancer diagnosis could not just be devastating for me, because a loved one may die. But we may lose our home and everything else, too, even though I did “all the right things” such as getting a good job and being insured. The news that another insurance wanted to put time limits on anesthesia was another ugly piece to this bigger picture.

The United Healthcare CEO’s death remind me of the assassination of Shinzo Abe, former Japanese Prime Minister. He got murdered, because the assassin wanted to shine a spotlight on Abe’s and Abe’s family’s dealings with the Unification Church. Since then, the LDP (the Japanese Conservative Party) has worked hard to cut ties with the Unification Church. The assassin succeeded, and I doubt anything would have happened if he hadn’t killed Abe.

I’m surprised that not more representatives of the US healthcare industry have been killed by people who have been (or at least feel) wronged by, say, their insurance provider or some other cog in this machinery. My way out to keep a consistent world view is to focus on maintaining the humanity of everyone involved, including, of course, the United Healthcare CEO’s.

@Spheric
I don’t remember seeing anything like that, but I reckon I wasn’t looking in the “right” (or rather, wrong) corners of the internet. Personally, I thought it was more of a Darwin Award-type of situation after learning how the submarine had been constructed. But even with a properly constructed submarine, this was dangerous. What I disliked was how much press the accident got and how much effort was put into trying to recover the wreckage. I thought that was disproportionate.