[Xeo]

Honest question. I know there are Christians on the left here. I just can't think of anyone on these boards on the right that isn't Christian. So are you out there? What is your belief system?

Oh, and this is open to the world at large.

(Is it possible for you guys to not start flaming Christianity? I really just want to know more about the community here. Hey, I got an idea, just vote in the poll and don't comment at all unless you are a non-Christian conservative.)

[PacHead]

Me.

[Logic]

Well, some call me a conservative and others call me a socialist. So you could perhaps add me to that list but I'm not sure I should vote on it. It's difficult to define right-left, and especially if you are doing a transatlantic comparison.

[BRussell]

I can come up with about 5 pretty easily. But I'll let them label themselves.

[Xeo]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Me.

So what's your belief system then?

[Xeo]

Originally posted by Logic:
Well, some call me a conservative and others call me a socialist. So you could perhaps add me to that list but I'm not sure I should vote on it. It's difficult to define right-left, and especially if you are doing a transatlantic comparison.

Well what's conservative and liberal would vary from country to country so I suppose thinking about the American way of conservatism vs liberalism.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Xeo:
So what's your belief system then?

I'm not really religious at all, to be honest. I do have strong morals though, and I believe strongly in my own values.

My parents = Jewish & Christian - - -

I used to celebrate both hanukkah and christmas - Double as many presents etc.

My support for Bush has zero to do with religion though.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Xeo:
Well what's conservative and liberal would vary from country to country so I suppose thinking about the American way of conservatism vs liberalism.

k, then I definitely would not fit as a non-Christian right winger

[Shaddim]

Right here. I'm non-Christian Right.

[Zimphire]

I'm more a Christian-middle.

[ironknee]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I'm more a Christian-middle.

that's a good one zim

i am middle and non christian

[ironknee]

Originally posted by ironknee:
that's a good one zim

i am left/middle and non christian

[Xeo]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Right here. I'm non-Christian Right.

Well that's news. I thought you were Christian. What do you believe then?

And if you're middle, pick which side you lean. Or, pick who you voted for (Bush = right, Kerry = left). I'm not a far leftist either and consider myself neither Dem nor Repub but I marked myself as left.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Xeo:
Well that's news. I thought you were Christian. What do you believe then?

It's complicated. Probably would be best charaterized as Gnostic-Thelemite. Though, I do share many views with Christians (and Jews and Muslims). I can't call myself Christian, however, because I don't agree with everything in the Nicene/Apostle's creed.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Xeo:
So what's your belief system then?

Jewish.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by ironknee:
that's a good one zim

What do you mean? Do you not believe me?

There are TONS of things I am against and for on both sides.

For example (Have given this a few times) I am against abortion AND the death penalty.

[Captain Obvious]

Well something like 70% of Americans come from some sort of Christian family background. So asking this question is like putting a penny in five of ten balloons on a board, 7 of them being red and 3 yellow, and then throwing a dart. The odds are high that you will hit a red one and the fact it might have a penny is just random chance. And yes, this is open to everyone but almost everyone here comes from a Western country which are also predominantly Christian.

With that said, no my family is Catholic.
Oddly enough though I am the only republican but I am also the least religious (by a lot). I haven�t been to a service that wasn�t for a wedding or Christmas in over 10 years. I think I�ve been to temple more often than a church recently, though admittedly that was to aid in getting play. So I am not sure what your question is meant to prove.
In fact I think given the numerical superiority of people of Christian backgrounds around here I think what you are asking is stupid. The varying emphasis on religious conservatism and adherence to traditional doctrine among the sects of Christianity make what you are implying silly. If you wanted to ask something specifically like who are evangelical or even who are protestants you would get narrow numbers but more specific results.

Have I ever given the impression that religion made any sort of difference in my political leanings? Hell, most religions would find my belief system morally reprehensible.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
Well something like 70% of Americans come from some sort of Christian family background. So asking this question is like putting a penny in five of ten balloons on a board, 7 of them being red and 3 yellow, and then throwing a dart. The odds are high that you will hit a red one and the fact it might have a penny is just random chance.

It's not random chance. Republicans are more religious than Democrats. See here.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by BRussell:
It's not random chance. Republicans are more religious than Democrats. See here.

Are you stupid, nevermind we already know that.

He is not asking what party has a more religious base. He is asking of the MacNN members who are conservative which come from Christian backgrounds. Given that the majority of all the members of MacNN are American and most Americans come from Christian families my point stands and your link has nothing to do with the question.

[moki]

me! -- Agnostic.

[CreepingDeth]

Non-Christian here. People accuse me of being a Bible thumper, but I'm pretty far from that. Very rarely, I'll flip through the old Testament or something, but that's basically where the Christian part ends. I found church boring.

However, I do believe there is a God and a transcendent moral code. On some points, I might be considered a social conservative on alot of sex issues (abstinence being one) and on marriage, but other times I might lean a little more Libertarian. And to clear something up, I opposed the Constitutional amendment against gay marriage, but I do support states deciding on it. And from the looks of it, if last night's GOP sweep and proposition votes against it will make it quite unnecessary.

And even though I'm a neocon doesn't mean I fit that ******** anti-Semitic conspiracy that all neocons are Jews, and the same goes for being a social conservative who has to religious affiliation.

Also, I think the definition of agnostic does not work for me. It basically means someone who professes ignorance and doubt, and I really don't apply. So I still have yet to find a word to describe me.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
Are you stupid, nevermind we already know that.

He is not asking what party has a more religious base. He is asking of the MacNN members who are conservative which come from Christian backgrounds. Given that the majority of all the members of MacNN are American and most Americans come from Christian families my point stands and your link has nothing to do with the question.

1. Although most of the US population may have Christian parents, that's different than their current belief system, and it's pretty clear that's what he's asking about (e.g., "What is your belief system?"), rather than simply how they were raised.

2. Although most of America is Christian, these boards are quite non-religious. The current results of the poll at the top of this page show this, and directly contradict your silly "7 in 10 balloons" analogy: 20 call themselves non-Christian and only 4 Christian.

3. In those exit polls, Bush won Christians, and Kerry won Jews, "others," and the non-religious. Sorry chum, but that bears directly on even your (almost certainly inaccurate) interpretation of his question topic.

[Captain Obvious]

Because the poll options are stupid much like the question being asked. I picked conservative non-christian because the other options sucked equally. Where's the conservative non-religious option?
First of all, I do not believe that choice to adhere to your religious background absolves you from your connection to it.
It is like being born in the United States. You clearly didn't have a choice but it was what you were born into. You can choose to move to Canada and cut off your affiliation but by virtue of being born there you are always an American. You can have kids who are not American but your initial ties to what you were born into are not gone because you wished them away.
Religion is exactly the same in my eyes. You can walk away from it but you can't deny that was what you were born into.
No one asked about exit polls and no one is wondering if fundamentalist Christians voted in larger percentages for Bush. The question he posed and how he posed was incorrect. If he wants to know who is actively religious then that should be what the question says. I am not at all religious but I do not deny that I was born a Christian and barring some Jewish in-laws who don't want me to sign a prenup but do want me to convert I don't see that being something I would hide. When asked what am I, I feel compelled to answer Catholic despite my choice to be non-practicing.

[Spliffdaddy]

I'm so far to the right that I'm slipping off the edge.

There is no religion in my life. I have no interest in it. You may have noticed my absence in the religious threads. My opinion is that the most religious people are the very same folks that pretend to hate religion.

I try to do the right thing and then I hope for the best. If there's an afterlife, it's my goal to qualify for it. If there's not an afterlife, I'm certain I won't care.

[Saad]

I'm not a christian. and I am liberal. I am religous, though. I go to the Islamic center for prayers frequently.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I'm so far to the right that I'm slipping off the edge.

I think I'm the proud owner of that title.

[Cue Nazi accusations]

Off course, I'm somewhat of a mixture of social conservative, neocon, and Libertarian.

I guess I might be a mix of:



I think it's a pretty good mix.

[Joshua]

I'm a conservative and an agnostic.

[BRussell]

I put Christian left, even though I don't believe in any of the supernatural stuff. I mean, the Christian supernatural stuff.

[Millennium]

Keep in mind that the term "Christian Right" refers to a very specific political agenda, namely that of establishing a governmental system based on the Old Testament.

There are plenty Christians who lean right politically but would not consider themselves part of the Christian Right. Most of these -myself included- would be quite insulted if you tried to identify them with that agenda. We have to deal with this prejudice every day, and while I would not dare to say that it's any worse than any of the pther prejudices people face, it is every bit as real.

[GRAFF]

Originally posted by Xeo:
Honest question. I know there are Christians on the left here. I just can't think of anyone on these boards on the right that isn't Christian. So are you out there? What is your belief system?

Oh, and this is open to the world at large.

(Is it possible for you guys to not start flaming Christianity? I really just want to know more about the community here. Hey, I got an idea, just vote in the poll and don't comment at all unless you are a non-Christian conservative.)

Well, if you only want comments from the non-Christian right, it is not a very interesting discussion. When you ask "What is you belief system, are you implying that everyone has religious beliefs, or do you want a definition of one's moral beliefs - which are not necessarily tied to the worship of any deity.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Keep in mind that the term "Christian Right" refers to a very specific political agenda, namely that of establishing a governmental system based on the Old Testament.

Just one question. Why would a Christian want to base the government on the Old Testament?

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Logic:
Just one question. Why would a Christian want to base the government on the Old Testament?

Your guess is as good as mine, as far as that goes. But if you read their agendas, that's most definitely what they want; almost everything corresponds to the Old Testament and very little corresponds to the New.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Your guess is as good as mine, as far as that goes. But if you read their agendas, that's most definitely what they want; almost everything corresponds to the Old Testament and very little corresponds to the New.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more it makes a twisted kind of sense. Basing a government off of the New Testament would be exceedingly difficult, because there really isn't much in the way of law there. The few law-related stuff there is either nullifies Old Testament stuff or is so subjective that it would be impossible to judge. The stuff that isn't outright nullified in the New Testament gets at most a quick mention or two; certainly nothing as formal as restatement. The Christian Right may be insane, but it's not stupid; if you want to base laws on something, then they have to come from somewhere. Even they can grasp that concept.

So if you want a Christianity-based code of laws, the Old Testament is really the only source, because otherwise there aren't really any laws you could ever base a code on.

[Xeo]

Originally posted by GRAFF:
Well, if you only want comments from the non-Christian right, it is not a very interesting discussion. When you ask "What is you belief system, are you implying that everyone has religious beliefs, or do you want a definition of one's moral beliefs - which are not necessarily tied to the worship of any deity.

I only said to have comments from the one group so we wouldn't get stupid sarcasm about Christianity like so many people can't help but do. Any civil discussion is welcome.

As for belief system, it can be anything at all even if it is nothing. I do not believe in the supernatural, for example. My morals, for example, are based on equality. I think people should have an equal chance in life. American laws, for example, mostly support this notion since many of them keep people from doing harm to other people. But I don't have moral problems with sexual activity, whatever it may be, so long as it's between consenting adults and not imposed on others (ie. in public). This is one place where my morals differ greatly from that of a Christian.

I was brought up Lutheran, by the way.

[Xeo]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
Are you stupid, nevermind we already know that.

He is not asking what party has a more religious base. He is asking of the MacNN members who are conservative which come from Christian backgrounds. Given that the majority of all the members of MacNN are American and most Americans come from Christian families my point stands and your link has nothing to do with the question.

Well, pushing aside the fact that you're always a jerk with your responses, let me say that you are not correct. I don't care about your background. What you were when a kid is not the subject of this discussion. I am curious as to what people are now. I was raised religious but have abandoned all that because it's nonsense to me.

I'm simply curious, that's all. There are people posting now in this thread that are surprising me with their answers. I admit being ignorant about people's backgrounds here. I'm trying to become less ignorant by asking a question I've wondered about. I don't think this is an offensive topic to anyone (don't know why it should be), so if you don't like it, you're welcome to not participate but something tells me you will reply with some snide remark anyway.

Where's the conservative non-religious option?

Because it's my poll and I'm curious about Christians specifically. You're "conservative non-religious" fits just fine into the "Non-Christian Right" category.

If he wants to know who is actively religious then that should be what the question says.

My question asks that. I don't think religion is a race. You can be born into Christianity but that doesn't mean you are a Christian for life. I am not a Christian anymore even though I was one at one time. Similar to being an American. I can reject that too and lose citizenship. Then I am no longer an American. My question asks exactly what I wanted it to ask. The word "active" need not be present.

Originally posted by BRussell:
I put Christian left, even though I don't believe in any of the supernatural stuff. I mean, the Christian supernatural stuff.

Wouldn't that make you non-Christian left then? Why do you consider yourself Christian?

[CD Hanks]

Sup.

I consider myself a relatively independant thinker politically, but I fall in line with the rightwingers more often than not.

My belief system is complex, to say the least. For simplicity's sake, I'll just say "agnostic".

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Keep in mind that the term "Christian Right" refers to a very specific political agenda, namely that of establishing a governmental system based on the Old Testament.

There are plenty Christians who lean right politically but would not consider themselves part of the Christian Right. Most of these -myself included- would be quite insulted if you tried to identify them with that agenda. We have to deal with this prejudice every day, and while I would not dare to say that it's any worse than any of the pther prejudices people face, it is every bit as real.

That's not quite correct. The strictures that Paul placed are almost as harsh as those set by the OT Law, (Jesus being the fulfillment of the Law) but are tempered with the inclusion of divine grace and mercy.

[Nicko]

Is the US version of the fundamentalist-born-again-Christian-Right the new strain of facism for the 21st century?

Or perhaps are some people using it as a safe harbor against their fears of a progressively secular world? Much like Islamic fundamentalism in the middle east perhaps?

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Xeo:
Wouldn't that make you non-Christian left then? Why do you consider yourself Christian?

I probably wouldn't be considered a "true Christian" by most Christians, if you use Macnstein's test of believing in one of the basic creeds. I don't believe in God as a human-like miracle-performing, Mary-impregnating entity who sends people to heaven or hell, and I don't believe Jesus was the son of God in any literal sense like Christians are supposed to believe (nor do I believe he claimed to be though).

But 1) I'm willing to consider that there may be a kind of "deist" or "pantheist" God, 2) I think the world would be a better place if more folks listened to the teachings of Jesus, 3) I was raised a Christian and culturally identify most easily with that religion, 4) I think both the spiritual and community aspects of religion fulfill basic human needs, and 5) I'm an active member of a (liberal) protestant church, and no one's ever given me any kind of belief test to pass.

[MacManMikeOSX]

אני יהודי

انا يهدي

I'm a jew, and I hate bush...bast*rd

[PacHead]

Originally posted by MacManMikeOSX:
אני יהודי

انا يهدي

I'm a jew, and I hate bush...bast*rd

Yeah, there's a lot of your type of jews around, which strikes me as odd, but oh well.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Keep in mind that the term "Christian Right" refers to a very specific political agenda, namely that of establishing a governmental system based on the Old Testament.

There are plenty Christians who lean right politically but would not consider themselves part of the Christian Right. Most of these -myself included- would be quite insulted if you tried to identify them with that agenda. We have to deal with this prejudice every day, and while I would not dare to say that it's any worse than any of the pther prejudices people face, it is every bit as real.

Christian right is a label. It has been a fear tactic used by the gay left (used as another example as a label) to scare voters. The truth of the matter is that people who are without faith do not understand Christians. They somehow believe that Christians should be held to a different standard.

What is interesting is the utter hate and condemnation non-christians have for people with faith. Why is that? Why and how can a person hate someone for having a belief in God.

[MacManMikeOSX]

I cannot support Bush he is using the Jewish people, the only reason he supports Israel is not for the Jewish vote but for the fundamentalist christians. If they had their way they'd pack us up and send us out the the Negev as bait for the rapture. Also as Jews in the west we are not westerners nor in the east Easterners the arabs dominate the middle east and the Assyrians a possible ally have no power. We are stuck in a dilemma but Bush could in truth care less about Jews 75% of jews vote Democrat, in my view we should make bridges with the Arabs for after all do we not share the same father Avraham? If only we could see eye to eye, we the Jews could bring what we have learned from our exile in the west and share it with our brothers in Arabia, and they may help us to remember from where we come.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by MacManMikeOSX:
I cannot support Bush he is using the Jewish people, the only reason he supports Israel is not for the Jewish vote but for the fundamentalist christians. If they had their way they'd pack us up and send us out the the Negev as bait for the rapture. Also as Jews in the west we are not westerners nor in the east Easterners the arabs dominate the middle east and the Assyrians a possible ally have no power. We are stuck in a dilemma but Bush could in truth care less about Jews 75% of jews vote Democrat, in my view we should make bridges with the Arabs for after all do we not share the same father Avraham? If only we could see eye to eye, we the Jews could bring what we have learned from our exile in the west and share it with our brothers in Arabia, and they may help us to remember from where we come.

wow, this is the first time I've heard this conspiracy theory. Strange.

Hey, it's your Bar Mitzvah, if you can build bridges with the Arabs, best of luck to you (notice I said "build" and not "mend", mend would imply there was ever any cooperation). So far, they haven't been able to stop blowing themselves up long enough to have a decent dialog.

[MacManMikeOSX]

Okay, lets take a little look back at the middle ages. While the christians were claiming we do blood rituals and masacaring us, the arabs treated us with great respect, I beleive this can be restored and must be.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Yeah, there's a lot of your type of jews around, which strikes me as odd, but oh well.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by MacManMikeOSX:
Okay, lets take a little look back at the middle ages. While the christians were claiming we do blood rituals and masacaring us, the arabs treated us with great respect, I beleive this can be restored and must be.

Good luck, why don't you go to the Saudi Arabia or some other....wait, they won't let you in!

[Nicko]

Originally posted by MacManMikeOSX:
Okay, lets take a little look back at the middle ages. While the christians were claiming we do blood rituals and masacaring us, the arabs treated us with great respect, I beleive this can be restored and must be.

Yes, the crusades were used for as much political gain as well as religious fanaticism. Same as Iraq perhaps? hmmmm...

[vmarks]

Originally posted by MacManMikeOSX:
Okay, lets take a little look back at the middle ages. While the christians were claiming we do blood rituals and masacaring us, the arabs treated us with great respect, I beleive this can be restored and must be.

With great respect, as long as we paid the Jizya, wore the Zunnar, and didn't attempt anything that might have resembled self-determination.

You've bought a history that never was, my friend.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by Nicko:
Is the US version of the fundamentalist-born-again-Christian-Right the new strain of facism for the 21st century?

Originally posted by Xeo:
Is it possible for you guys to not start flaming Christianity?

Originally posted by MacManMikeOSX:
Okay, lets take a little look back at the middle ages. While the christians were claiming we do blood rituals and masacaring us, the arabs treated us with great respect, I beleive this can be restored and must be.

Hmm�Ironic in a sick way I guess. Now the so-called fundamentalists want Israel to strike Arafat down, and the Palestinians are murdering Israelis all the while Liberal politicians try to sever our support for Israel.
Looks like Arafat's brain dead now. Oh well. Let's hope he dies pretty soon.

But seriously, isn't the pacifist movement saying we should not be involved in foreign affairs? I assume that would also include Israel. They also blame our support for Israel to be the sole reason for terrorism.