[aristotles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdc1ZUL4gCg&NR

While this guy is offering it up as satire, that is not such a bad idea when you think about it. the west is up against mad men so why not send in mad men of our own to hunt them down?

[Nicko]

Well I gues it worked in the Dirty Dozen :shrug:

[badidea]

There are already criminal soldiers there! Why send more??

[Sky Captain]

Zing.

[Troll]

This is already happening. The French Foreign Legion is in Afghanistan and in Lebanon.

Hold on, if this is an idea the French had decades ago, it's gotta be a bad one!

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

YouTube - The Man Who Shot The Pope (Remix)

While this guy is offering it up as satire, that is not such a bad idea when you think about it. the west is up against mad men so why not send in mad men of our own to hunt them down?

Oh, they've tried that before. Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden both got their start that way, and there were plenty of others. The theory was that if we used monsters to fight monsters, then the friendly monsters would win and could then be contained.

It was half-right, anyway. The friendly monsters did indeed win, but containing them turned out to be a big problem. Then they stopped being friendly, which really screwed things up. Somehow I don't think it would be a good idea to try that again.

But that's just the pragmatic side of me talking. The ideological side opposes this for the same reason I oppose the draft: I believe that an all-volunteer army is extremely important for a free state. It is abominable enough to send volunteers to war, however necessary the war may or may not be; sending people to war against their will only makes it worse.

[Tuoder]

I don't he is serious. I think he is hilarious.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdc1ZUL4gCg&NR

While this guy is offering it up as satire, that is not such a bad idea when you think about it. the west is up against mad men so why not send in mad men of our own to hunt them down?

Actually, it is a really bad idea when you think about it. Soldiering requires discipline.

Imagine you were a sergeant given the task of leading a section of murderers, thieves, and rapists into battle. Beyond concerns about friendly fire, mutiny, or fragging, would you expect them to be any good at taking orders or simply putting duty ahead of self?

Criminals were failures at being normal citizens. They are guaranteed to be even greater failures as soldiers.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Actually, it is a really bad idea when you think about it. Soldiering requires discipline.

Imagine you were a sergeant given the task of leading a section of murderers, thieves, and rapists into battle. Beyond concerns about friendly fire, mutiny, or fragging, would you expect them to be any good at taking orders or simply putting duty ahead of self?

Criminals were failures at being normal citizens. They are guaranteed to be even greater failures as soldiers.

There is a school of thought that many of these criminals are criminals because they lacked discipline in the home growing up. Getting some discipline in boot camp might be just what they need to get straightened out. Some people send their troubled teens to boot camp or military school right?

I think that in many cases, they are looking for some place to belong and for someone to tell them what to do.

I feel that one of my nieces is a criminal now because she lacked discipline in the home. Her crimes early on were cries for help. She was looking for someone to set some rules and boundaries for her. Had she been put into bootcamp, I think she could have turned out to be a fine solider and citizen.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

There is a school of thought that many of these criminals are criminals because they lacked discipline in the home growing up.

That's one possible cause for criminality. There are several ways in which less-than-ideal home life leads to bad things. In some cases, it isn't lack of discipline, but lack of love, or worse, a lot of anger and abuse.

And of course, there are other possible causes of criminality, such as substance problems, psychiatric illness of a physical cause, or even just plain personal badness.

Perhaps boot camp can help undisciplined youth, but it can't help those other groups.

Regardless, the military should be pursuing the best possible recruits, not trolling the prisons for less-than-ideal candidates.

EDIT: I hope your niece straightens out. Good luck to her.

[marden]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Actually, it is a really bad idea when you think about it. Soldiering requires discipline.

Imagine you were a sergeant given the task of leading a section of murderers, thieves, and rapists into battle. Beyond concerns about friendly fire, mutiny, or fragging, would you expect them to be any good at taking orders or simply putting duty ahead of self?

Criminals were failures at being normal citizens. They are guaranteed to be even greater failures as soldiers.

Congrats! You found the right side of an argument to argue!

In addition to this fine argument of yours, there is something to be said for having the people who fight for you be people who share your values and who represent the BEST of you, not the worst of you. It shows how much we value our freedom and the principles we are fighting for and shows our foes who we are.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by marden 

Congrats! You found the right side of an argument to argue!

I'm always on the correct side: the side for personal liberty.

[marden]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I'm always on the correct side: the side for personal liberty.

Ahhh! That's more like it.

Wrong again.