[spiky_dog]

i want a tablet powerbook... given that my quicksilver 800 is still chugging along at an acceptable rate i don't need a g5 in my next notebook. i also simply don't need a laptop since much of my notes (anatomy class, for instance) consists of drawing figures. having a tablet would be the best computer solution, perhaps not better than simple paper but that's not the point here. rather, if apple made either a tablet powerbook or a newton 2100 on steroids (large color screen, updated specs, styling and seamless os x integration) i'd be all over it in a heartbeat.

[Simon]

Originally posted by theolein:
Fr1000.- is the reason I went for the slower version without the fancy backlighted keyboard.

Yeah, I figured. A 1000 francs is almost always a good argument.

I got it through a dealer, Netto Computer AG in Z�rich. I have a bit of trouble with them right now, because I traded in my old TiPB 667MHHz for this new one, and after looking at it and accepting it and making the sale final, they today phoned me and told me the screen had a dark spot on it (This one day later).
Legally I am in the right as they did check the old PB in my presence and another customer was there as well, and they accepted it. The guy started up the machine, checked the Airport card and started Explorer and loaded a web site and he did all this without complaining about any "dark spots". Older LCD's do tend to become less brilliant over time and I don't know whether he's refering to that. But it doesn't really matter legally, as the bill of sale states that the new PB's price is reduced by the price they gave for the old one, and in Switzerland an invoice is a valid contract.

Yep. You're right. Don't let the dealer screw you. They had their fair chance.

It might well be that I'll have to take my business elsewhere in the future though (Dataquest probably)

I've resorted to trying to get as much as I can through the Swiss AppleStore. Dataquest is a bunch of incompetent jockers that seldomly keep a promise, almost never return calls and simply don't know jack about the Mac. I've never been to Netto. Where are they? Letec is at a good location (just above the 'Central') but they're very small and have only few demo machines.

The Swiss AppleStore ships via TNT which is rather quick coming from Holland. For purchases above 200 francs they charge no shipping. The only downside is mostly the gals on the phone (mostly Bavarian btw ) are pretty clue-less. But they're nice.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Filburt:
Take away the beauty and perhaps thickness, however, there are many that easily meets your challenge.

HP zt3000:

• Price: $1924
• Processor: Intel Pentium M @ 1.6 GHz with 2 MB L2 cache
• Display: 15.4" LCD @ 1680x1050
• Graphics: ATI RADEON Mobility 9200 with 64 MB
• Memory: 1 GB DDR SDRAM
• Hard Disk: 80 GB 4200 RPM
• Optical Disk: 8X DVD+/-RW
• Network: 802.11b/g with Bluetooth 1.2

My girlfriend has is and it routinely gets over 4 hours of battery life with maximum LCD brightness with Bluetooth and WiFi turned on. Its fan rarely turns on and it weighs about 6.5 lbs and 1.3" thick.

Filburt, I think you've got a good example for what I mean. That notebook certainly isn't bad, it's got a good CPU, nice display specs, good optical and the wireless stuff you'd expect. Battery life is nice.

But...

Its GPU sucks, the disk is slow, it's too thick and too heavy!

This is what I like about the PowerBook. It's certainly more expensive than this HP, but it doesn't have these downsides to it. It's a very well-balanced package that is rather complete; it's thin, it's light and it's still affordable! To get all that in the PC world means buying high-end notebooks from companies like IBM that are very expensive.

[Simon]

Originally posted by wtmcgee:
Since the Freescale processors are so far away, and we won't be seeing a G5 anytime soon either...

This is something that's worrying me. The PowerBooks are really due for an update by November, but what could Apple update them with?

The 7448 isn't ready yet, let alone any dual-core e600 or a low-power mobile version of the 970fx. How far can they bump the current 7447?

Of course they can put in a faster and larger disk, better GPUs, maybe even dual-layer burners. Hell, maybe they can even do some magic with the battery and get 5h in real-life use. But what will this amount to if the gain in clock speed is a mere 100MHz only because the 7447 has hit the ceiling?

What are their options right now? Or is it sit and wait time again? After all, the last Ti PB stuck around for 9 months. I don't like those memories...

[im_noahselby]

I'm happy that I bought my 12" PB when I did, as I would have regretted waiting, like some of you are now. Do you guys realize that you could be waiting as long as January for an "update". As nice as it is to have the latest and greatest machines, I doubt very much that an updated 12" PowerBook will sport any drastic differences from the current one. There hasn't even been much in the way of rumors lately, so I'm surprised I'm reading this thread at this time.

For those who are sticking to their guns and waiting, I hope it's worth the wait for you in the end. I know there will be a lot of horrified people out there if Apple did what they did in their last iBook revision. I think the only real upgrade was a small processor increase. It was so dissapointing, that it pushed me in the direction of a 12" PB, which recieved an excellent revision c.

Here's hoping rev d rocks...

Noah

[nooon]

here's hoping rev. d doesn't come out until january

[Randman]

The rev Cs are quite capable, especially the upper-end models. I love my 17 and am glad I got it, even after the iMac G5s came out.
I can understand if a major revision is coming, or if you're set on a 12 and am hoping for a little more performance, but for those waiting for the latest and greatest, there's always going to be something coming around the corner that's better.
Me? I'm more than happy with my 17, and I figure it's plenty good enough to see me through until the rev B PB G5s are released.

[Voch]

The PowerPage has posted an exclusive "PowerBook Roadmap". Take it for what it's worth (does "exclusive" mean "made up?).

EDIT: sorry. Didn't notice the thread about this (or are we supposed to discuss it here?).

Voch

[Randman]

Sounds made up.

[theolein]

Originally posted by Simon:
Yeah, I figured. A 1000 francs is almost always a good argument.



Yep. You're right. Don't let the dealer screw you. They had their fair chance.



I've resorted to trying to get as much as I can through the Swiss AppleStore. Dataquest is a bunch of incompetent jockers that seldomly keep a promise, almost never return calls and simply don't know jack about the Mac. I've never been to Netto. Where are they? Letec is at a good location (just above the 'Central') but they're very small and have only few demo machines.

The Swiss AppleStore ships via TNT which is rather quick coming from Holland. For purchases above 200 francs they charge no shipping. The only downside is mostly the gals on the phone (mostly Bavarian btw ) are pretty clue-less. But they're nice.

I wrote a detailed and long email explaining my position to the company last night and today, they wrote back apologising for their behaviour yesterday. It seems my mentioning the receipt made them realise there was no chance and no legal way to force me to take back my old TiPB and pay them an extra 1700.- for my new AlPB. The guy who made the sale is going to buy my old TiPB himself from the company and is going to try and sell it online privately. Ouch, poor bugger! He must have got quite a yelling at from his boss.

Apart from this incident, which I suppose is partly because it's a small chain and they worry about every penny lost, I've had mostly good dealings with them. They're not particularly cheap, but they are usually very friendly and they're just around the corner from me. They have a couple of stores, one in Dietlikon and one in Fellenbergerstrasse in Z�rich (near Albisrieden).

I'm also happy that it worked out as Dataquest tends to be a bunch of incompetents, as you rightly said. I remember early this year walking into the store to get Panther, and although the store isn't very big, and there were no less than 5 sales people in that store, not one of them came up to me to ask me if I needed help. After 5 minutes of standing there, including actually standing right in fornt of one of them who was on the phone in order to see if the guy would notice me, I bugged off. I wrote them a stinky mail and that was that.

[wtmcgee]

Originally posted by Randman:
Sounds made up.

That's an understatement.

[Alienex]

Originally posted by nooon:
here's hoping rev. d doesn't come out until january

I am waiting for now....hopefully it comes out this month.

[MacBoston]

Well I have to say I did'nt wait, I didnt for the following reasons......

1. Faster processor=more battery drain, the 1.5 took a hit on battery life from 1.33mhz, who knows what a dual core G4 will do or a 20mhz. Maybe they will come out with a larger battery which is find by me. Caveat: some fancy new g5 tecnology that is more effecient and also more powerful would be nice

2. G5 is a long way off, I give it a year although seeing the imac there is hope for something a little sooner.

3. 95% of the people will never use the power of a 1.5 g4. I'm an architect I do 3d modeling, CAD, intensive photoshop and with 512megs I get good performance. I plan on maxing out to 2 gigs of ram and I'm sure will increase the performance substanially. Yes its slow if you toss around 200meg photoshop, but that brings up the question "do you really need that resolution" Unfortunately most people have little understanding of resolutaion and file size, big is better, only if big is needed

4. New is more $$$$, has anyone forgotten these things use to cost close to 4k all decked out??

5. The g4 book has been thorougly tested. I'd rather buy a rev C product then one hot off of the designers table.

Will I be jealous of the next speed bump the new g5's when they come out, of course I will. Moore's Law might be true, but in the end how much speed do you really need??

[Fiete5401]

I'm on the fence too and I need the new PB before Nov. 2 because at this day the Cram&Jam-Promo ends. ^^

[wtmcgee]

a few people have mentioned the dual core powerbooks in this thread, but I am convinced from the press release that Freescale made that we will not see dual core G4s in the next revision of Powerbooks.

That is, unless there are NO updates until late winter-early spring. That's about when the new Dual Cores would be ready.

With that said, I think we'll see one more incremental revision, then the Dual cores for the rest of 2005, and G5s in early 2006.

[nooon]

Originally posted by MacBoston:
Well I have to say I did'nt wait, I didnt for the following reasons......

1. Faster processor=more battery drain, the 1.5 took a hit on battery life from 1.33mhz, who knows what a dual core G4 will do or a 20mhz. Maybe they will come out with a larger battery which is find by me. Caveat: some fancy new g5 tecnology that is more effecient and also more powerful would be nice

2. G5 is a long way off, I give it a year although seeing the imac there is hope for something a little sooner.

3. 95% of the people will never use the power of a 1.5 g4. I'm an architect I do 3d modeling, CAD, intensive photoshop and with 512megs I get good performance. I plan on maxing out to 2 gigs of ram and I'm sure will increase the performance substanially. Yes its slow if you toss around 200meg photoshop, but that brings up the question "do you really need that resolution" Unfortunately most people have little understanding of resolutaion and file size, big is better, only if big is needed

4. New is more $$$$, has anyone forgotten these things use to cost close to 4k all decked out??

5. The g4 book has been thorougly tested. I'd rather buy a rev C product then one hot off of the designers table.

Will I be jealous of the next speed bump the new g5's when they come out, of course I will. Moore's Law might be true, but in the end how much speed do you really need??

hear hear.
that's exactly what I thought, so I ordered one 3 days ago.

[jstein]

First of all, Anly congrats on your purchase. It always amazes how a thread can fall so far from its topic and everyone goes off into his or her own little rants. Most of the time, purchasing a computer comes down to a few things. What will the computer be mostly used for and how soon will you need a new computer. Let�s face it, we live in a consumer based world so all purchases have to be weighed.


Common wisdom in this community seems to be, if you can wait for a next revision of a computer so be it. If not then go for it. I am quite sure that everyone knows by the time a computer is released it is already obsolete.


Now a topic of concern seems to be, what a powerbook can and cannot do. Benchmarks are good, and I am not here to argue with anyone. Though I am a firm believer in testing the product for myself or seeing the product in action.

This comes up all the time how the powerbook is not fully capable of handling Final Cut Pro. So here is a link from a seminar held by a Final Cut Pro User Group in 2004.


FCP user group



How amazing, using a tipb not an alpb, which at the time the tipb was a year out of date he was able to use Final Cut Pro to edit HD clips even before Final Cut Pro HD was on the market. Now is this for everyone no, the point it can be done. If it was done on a tipb it can definitely be perform on the current line up of alpb. I really love the line Gary used in the clip, � people who want to be the first line, usually wait a lot in line while things get repaired.� Something to think about, again if you get a chance check out the link.


FCP user group

[SierraDragon]

Regarding:

"How far can they bump the current 7447?"

Faster DDR RAM, faster hard drives and faster GPUs would make a very significant difference (+20% or more in real world throughput) to those of us using Adobe CS apps. next year under Tiger. MHz clock speed is the least relevant thing Apple might improve.

Computer purchases should be based on anticipated OS/app needs for the next 2-3 years, not on today, which ends at midnight...

[sbc]

I agree with the post above the a G5 Powerbook would likely within the first quarter of 2006; that may also collide with the introduction of 64 bit Pentinum M series. That will cause quite a stir, I suppose.

I value my dollar highly and would not upgrade immediately, so I am more than willing to wait to get the PB I desire; especially considering that I would have a faily new PC system. IMHO, Apple offers the best desktop replacement system within the 17" market, period.

I hope to see dual core introduced in the first quarter of next year, but definitely no later than April. If Apple could combine a G4DC, higher screen resolution, and a longer battery life, I would not budge in spending a fair share of money.

With the G5-PB being a fantasy, something will have to keep the G4 line fresh throughout the next three to four quarters. Dual-core and FSB increase are an option, and no one would complain about better battery life. Apple will have to surprise us. If there isn't any type of "worthy" update buzz circulating by the second quarter of next year, I will not consider purchasing a powerbook until G5.

[riotge@r]

Originally posted by anly:
I am ready to plunk down the dough... I hope I don't have to wait too much longer

Why do people continue to do this? Just buy the best machine you can get now. These posts have gotten out of hand.

[Fiete5401]

Originally posted by riotge@r:
Why do people continue to do this? Just buy the best machine you can get now. These posts have gotten out of hand.

We have the money and we have enough time to waste. But we don't have the nerves to wait 4-6 weeks.

[John123]

Originally posted by riotge@r:
Why do people continue to do this? Just buy the best machine you can get now. These posts have gotten out of hand.

I noticed you own a PB/1.5Ghz. You're on the other side of the aisle -- not wanting to feel buyers' regret and wanting others to take the same path as you have because it will justify your decision.

That's neither good nor bad, but it illustrates that everyone is going to have psychological motivations that influence their buying behavior. Some will want/need a computer now, and some can afford to wait. I recently sold my TiBook and, despite some good deals on current models, will wait because I have a PC at home that gets the job done enough in the interim.

[Randman]

John, you made a bit of sense until one got the "I have a PC" portion. Loses a bit from that.

[Randman]

But now that I think about it, the funny thing (to me) is that you have all of these people who are waiting for the latest, greatest and then cripple their machine with a minimum amount of ram. Usually followed by the comment "Oh, I may upgrade in the next 6 months or so."
I'd be willing to take my PB17, rev c, with 1.5Gb of ram and favorably compare it with the performance of a (hypothetical) PowerBook running at 1.8Ghz with 512 of ram.

[Voch]

Originally posted by Randman:
I'd be willing to take my PB17, rev c, with 1.5Gb of ram and favorably compare it with the performance of a (hypothetical) PowerBook running at 1.8Ghz with 512 of ram.

This was my reasoning when I went with the refurb TiBook almost two years ago. I spent the difference on RAM, a nice protective bag, and AppleCare.

Voch

[Fiete5401]

Originally posted by Randman:
But now that I think about it, the funny thing (to me) is that you have all of these people who are waiting for the latest, greatest and then cripple their machine with a minimum amount of ram. Usually followed by the comment "Oh, I may upgrade in the next 6 months or so."
I'd be willing to take my PB17, rev c, with 1.5Gb of ram and favorably compare it with the performance of a (hypothetical) PowerBook running at 1.8Ghz with 512 of ram.

Sorry, but I'll upgrade to 1 Gig of RAM. 1 Gig is exactly the amount that I need. More would be a waste of money, less would be stupid as you said.

[zed57]

Same here, I will be buying RAM (from 3rd party) the moment I click on the buy button, at apple.ca (which will happen the moment they bump these powerbooks!)

[David Hagan]

I wish Apple would offer BTO 7200 RPM drives as an option.

[jstein]

Originally posted by David Hagan:
I wish Apple would offer BTO 7200 RPM drives as an option.

Now we are actually talking about something. In all honesty all Apple laptops should at least come with a 5400 RPM drives if not 7200 RPM drives considering that Garage Band comes standard on all Apple laptops. Garage Band eats up a 4800 RPM drive.

[riotge@r]

Originally posted by John123:
I noticed you own a PB/1.5Ghz. You're on the other side of the aisle -- not wanting to feel buyers' regret and wanting others to take the same path as you have because it will justify your decision.

There is no need to justify my decision. When a new model comes out, I sell the older one on eBay and buy the new one. I've done this since the TiBook 450mhz was introduced. I see my laptop as a commodity and I am fine with swapping them every 6 months.

[anly]

Originally posted by riotge@r:
Why do people continue to do this? Just buy the best machine you can get now. These posts have gotten out of hand.

Yep, I went and bought it because I just could nto resist. 3000 may be peanuts to you, but I value every dollar I make

[Lancer409]

Originally posted by anly:
Yep, I went and bought it because I just could nto resist. 3000 may be peanuts to you, but I value every dollar I make

congratz =P welcome to the wonky world of apple

[medienhexer]

oh fu....

I thought this was going to be inserted at the right place... NOT AT THE VERY END...

don�t hit on me


well, I do have the same problem as I�m planning on partly converting to mac and the performance gap in deed IS obvious (especially to the new Centrino with what was it? 2MB Cache?).
So from the pure hardware-point of view, the Centrinos do better. But in everyday�s work, the OS plays a big role as well. I mean, I was pretty amazed by the BeOS (R.I.P.).... 2 video streams and a 3d tea pot on a celeron 466... that was cool!
but back to the Macs: I do need more power as well (Music recording) and eventually won�t be able to get it done with the 12" PB. At least not the mixdown.

But one point you are missing is that buying a centrino @ $2,500 now, in a year it will be worth let�s say $1,000. The Macs on the other hand are still worth up to 70% of their prices (concluding from the eBay auctions) even if years old.

So in comparison -but don�t hesitate to proof me wrong- you have less loss to panic about.

med.

Originally posted by UglyTruth:

It disgusts me to know that I spent nearly 6 grand on two powerbooks that don't hold a candle to my business partner's $1,200 generic brand Pentium M notebook. My dilemma is that I hate Windows so bad, that I feel forced to keep buying Macs. Now you say, well his will break down sooner, etc.... Lucky him, he can buy another one (when that day comes the performance gap will be even larger) for the same price, fully loaded with new features and still be into them less than one Powerbook.

[dede]

i wait from august, and now i don't know how make.....
wait a update of G4, or wait new G5????
Help me please!!!!

[Fiete5401]

Originally posted by dede:
i wait from august, and now i don't know how make.....
wait a update of G4, or wait new G5????
Help me please!!!!

I asked me the same question. I decided to get the last revision of the G4-'Books because I think that there will be serious heat issues with a Rev. A G5-'Book.

[runejoha]

Originally posted by dede:
i wait from august, and now i don't know how make.....
wait a update of G4, or wait new G5????
Help me please!!!!

The G5 could be here in January, but it is likely to be more "delated", maybe in march or even later. When i bought my PB in April I had the same dilemma, but when i think about it now, I realize it is not a important issue.

My PB 15 has more than enough "firepower" or performance for all laptop tasks. I can even play most games on it. I believe there are few things you actually can use a G5 if you are not in heavy graphics etc. The G5 in the PB will as well performe less. I think Apples problem besides the heat issue is that they have to wait before you really need a G5 in a laptop.

I personally recommend you to buy a PB today. Remember the months without a PB you have to live if you decide to wait. The first PB G5 will as well be a 17 (probably) and have some problems. You can buy a new PB G5 in 2-3 years when they are even better and all problems are removed. Meanwhile your PB G4 will serv you well.

Want a game-computer? Buy a cheap AMD PC to have at home.

[iDu]

I'm sitting on the fence, although not by choice. If I had the money now I'd pick up that 15"/1.5/512/80 5400/128 that I've had in a saved cart at the Apple store for the last 3 months. It would be nice, however, if a new rev came out around the first week of Jan. By that time I'll have my money, but if there is no new offering, I'll pick one up anyway, whatever rev it is. Screw waiting.

[mrmister]

I'm in a similar place. I'm all set to get a 17", but I have a Ti500 which can poke along, getting the job done, until there's an update. I'm betting on a speed bump this month, at which point I'll buy. if there's no speed bump...well, c'est la vie, and I'll feel foolish and buy anyway.

[John123]

Originally posted by Randman:
John, you made a bit of sense until one got the "I have a PC" portion. Loses a bit from that.

Haha, it's painful!

Seriously, I enjoy my Mac, but the PC will cover me in the interim. Truthfully, it's better, because it makes me more likely to work (I do all my work in SQL Server, so my Mac is truly a personal machine only).

[John123]

Originally posted by riotge@r:
There is no need to justify my decision. When a new model comes out, I sell the older one on eBay and buy the new one. I've done this since the TiBook 450mhz was introduced. I see my laptop as a commodity and I am fine with swapping them every 6 months.

That gets expensive in a hurry. I did that routine for a while -- went from the Pismo 400 to the TiBook 550 (skipped the first generation) to the DVI/667 to the TiBook-1Ghz. Loved (and love) OS9 for its raw speed, so I have snoozed my way through the aluminums. But, knowing that I had little choice, I acclamated to full-time OS X use over the last year or so (still miss OS 9 so much), and I recently sold my beloved TiBook to make the move to the "next" PB revision.

[MrForgetable]

no regrets. i've had it for a month now, and nothing has gone wrong and it's still speeding along as fast as the day it was opened (maybe faster! )

but then i see your pain. if i figured that i was so close to the update, what is waiting a couple more days? then i'd keep waiting and waiting.

[mrmister]

Exactly my problem! The rational part of me says "just wait until November 1st" but I *know* that if I'm wrong and nothing happens I will just keep on waiting, and waiting, and waiting...

[John123]

Bottom line, for the last three years running, Apple has released a new PowerBook in time for the holiday buying season. What are the odds that this year is the exception, especially given that there will be other focus at MWSF?

[im_noahselby]

Originally posted by John123:
Bottom line, for the last three years running, Apple has released a new PowerBook in time for the holiday buying season. What are the odds that this year is the exception, especially given that there will be other focus at MWSF?

Apple may figure the iMac G5 and iPod frenzy will be enough to get them through the holiday season. I bet they're saving PB's for January...

Noah

[robgus]

Couldn't wait..Got my old pb Gen A sold and now have a pb 12 1.33ghz 80gb hd with superdrive on order

[nooon]

Originally posted by robgus:
Couldn't wait..Got my old pb Gen A sold and now have a pb 12 1.33ghz 80gb hd with superdrive on order

good on ya, mate!

[Lateralus]

I couldn't wait either.

Last night I found a great Buy It Now of $1,600 on eBay for an unopened 15"/1.33GHz/256MB/60GB/Combo/9700 64MB.

I had been hoping to wait until the next update but there is little to no firm news on the 7448 G4s coming down the channel within the immediate future, and I felt that the price on this PowerBook was so good that even if updated PowerBooks come out next week it will still be worth what I paid for it.

So, yeah... I'm getting a PowerBook.

Also of note: I have owned about 8 Macs in the past three years and this PowerBook will be the first Mac I have bought that wasn't used or refurbished.

[MrForgetable]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
I couldn't wait either.

Last night I found a great Buy It Now of $1,600 on eBay for an unopened 15"/1.33GHz/256MB/60GB/SuperDrive/9700 64MB.

I had been hoping to wait until the next update but there is little to no firm news on the 7448 G4s coming down the channel within the immediate future, and I felt that the price on this PowerBook was so good that even if updated PowerBooks come out next week it will still be worth what I paid for it.

So, yeah... I'm getting a PowerBook.

Also of note: I have owned about 8 Macs in the past three years and this PowerBook will be the first Mac I have bought that wasn't used or refurbished.

Congratulations, PowerBookMan. But what a good deal I wish I found it

[Halfloaf]

Originally posted by MacBoston:

3. 95% of the people will never use the power of a 1.5 g4. I'm an architect I do 3d modeling, CAD, intensive photoshop and with 512megs I get good performance. I plan on maxing out to 2 gigs of ram and I'm sure will increase the performance substanially. Yes its slow if you toss around 200meg photoshop, but that brings up the question "do you really need that resolution" Unfortunately most people have little understanding of resolutaion and file size, big is better, only if big is needed

As a side question? What CAD software do you use and how well does it run. I'm using Vectorworks 11 on a TiBook 1Ghz and it's dog slow...ArchiCAD 8.1 is even worse...!

SketchUp 3D 4.0 is rather fantastic!!!

Don't use PS that much, will do mostly hand renderings.

-HL

[John123]

Originally posted by MrForgetable:
Congratulations, PowerBookMan. But what a good deal I wish I found it

That sounds a little sketch, so let all of us know how it goes. I don't know of any way to buy a PowerBook new for that kind of price, and typically, if it sounds too good to be true...