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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > WHEN will Apple FIX uneven illumination?

WHEN will Apple FIX uneven illumination?
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ronann
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Jan 10, 2004, 09:21 PM
 
I'm one of the thousands of PB AL15" users with the problem of uneven illumination. Already had my laptop "fixed" once... the problem's back.

I would love to know - if anyone has any ideas as to when Apple is going to step up to the plate and actually fix this problem... for good. I'm not sending my computer in for a 2nd time b/c I have no confidence Apple knows what it's doing.

Any class action suits brewing out there?
Any steps on Apple's part to actually take care of this w/o simply installing replacement screens which so obviously DON'T fix the issue?

Many thanks.
     
PeterKG
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Jan 10, 2004, 09:41 PM
 
Originally posted by ronann:
I'm one of the thousands of PB AL15" users with the problem of uneven illumination. Already had my laptop "fixed" once... the problem's back.

I would love to know - if anyone has any ideas as to when Apple is going to step up to the plate and actually fix this problem... for good. I'm not sending my computer in for a 2nd time b/c I have no confidence Apple knows what it's doing.

Any class action suits brewing out there?
Any steps on Apple's part to actually take care of this w/o simply installing replacement screens which so obviously DON'T fix the issue?

Many thanks.
So who are your sources that tell you there are "thousands" of 15" PB owners with this problem? Class action suit already? What are you? A lawyer?
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Wiskedjak
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Jan 10, 2004, 11:00 PM
 
Originally posted by ronann:
WHEN will Apple FIX uneven illumination?
When you and every other laptop customer decide to pay twice as much for your laptop. Perfect lcds would drive laptop prices up so high that no one would purchase them.
     
Tantrum
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Jan 10, 2004, 11:02 PM
 
Originally posted by ronann:
I'm one of the thousands of PB AL15" users with the problem of uneven illumination. Already had my laptop "fixed" once... the problem's back.

I would love to know - if anyone has any ideas as to when Apple is going to step up to the plate and actually fix this problem... for good. I'm not sending my computer in for a 2nd time b/c I have no confidence Apple knows what it's doing.

Any class action suits brewing out there?
Any steps on Apple's part to actually take care of this w/o simply installing replacement screens which so obviously DON'T fix the issue?

Many thanks.
what do they look like?
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Rain
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Jan 10, 2004, 11:10 PM
 
Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
When you and every other laptop customer decide to pay twice as much for your laptop. Perfect lcds would drive laptop prices up so high that no one would purchase them.
Please. Stop turning a blind eye to Apple. My PC laptop had a problem with flickering screen and they immediately replaced it for me.

There's no excuse.

ETA: for people with unevenly lit screen, have you tried setting the brightness to maximum, and then closing and reopening the lid? I thought my 12" pb was perpetually dim and unevenliy lit (regardless if I set it to minimum or maximum once the screen is on) until I did that.
( Last edited by Rain; Jan 10, 2004 at 11:17 PM. )
     
hadocon
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Jan 10, 2004, 11:25 PM
 
Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
When you and every other laptop customer decide to pay twice as much for your laptop. Perfect lcds would drive laptop prices up so high that no one would purchase them.
Obviously you have not seen the poor quality of the AL 15" screens. I have one with uneven lighting and I can prove how bad it looks. See the pic


Click for Larger Pic

Check this thread for more details.
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ronann  (op)
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Jan 11, 2004, 12:46 AM
 
Originally posted by PeterKG:
So who are your sources that tell you there are "thousands" of 15" PB owners with this problem? Class action suit already? What are you? A lawyer?
>>Any class action suits brewing out there?
i.e. -- ARE there any, not I'm a lawyer and I intend to sue. Read the copy please.

At least 1/2 of all PB's (15") purchased have this defect. Again, read the postings, numerous forums, polls, articles.

If Apple is selling a slew of these particular Powerbooks, and I'm sure they are, then that would be "thousands."

You're either a satisfied customer (lucky you) or an Apple employee. Anyone else wouldn't have taken the posting to task. Chill. Enjoy your wonderfully working machine.
     
ronann  (op)
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Jan 11, 2004, 12:55 AM
 
Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
When you and every other laptop customer decide to pay twice as much for your laptop. Perfect lcds would drive laptop prices up so high that no one would purchase them.
Oh please. Are you for real?
What does one have to do with the other.
If one's in the business of making computers, then the product should work. Being that it's a problem pervasive with the 15" PB's, then Apple has a problem with that particular line and it's about time the company fixed the problem.
     
Maflynn
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Jan 11, 2004, 07:12 AM
 
Originally posted by ronann:
At least 1/2 of all PB's (15") purchased have this defect. Again, read the postings, numerous forums, polls, articles.
I think we need more concrete statistics before saying 1/2 of all 15" PBs have defective screens. I for one has a good screen did not vote or reply to the poll/forums.

I'm not trying to downplay those who have the issue and the aggrevation but you can't say its thousands or 1/2 of all PB without number to support that thesis.

Mike
     
voicebox
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Jan 20, 2004, 07:31 PM
 
Originally posted by hadocon:
Obviously you have not seen the poor quality of the AL 15" screens. I have one with uneven lighting and I can prove how bad it looks. See the pic
Hi hadacon,
I bought my Powerbook last November and I have no problems whatsoever - until now ...
My screen has just developed the same symptoms as yours - exactly!!
The fault manifests itself after start up from sleep and only disappears when I adjust the screen to full brightness ...
Would anyone else have any thoughts on this ??
Thanks in advance ---- John.

Click for Larger Pic

Check this thread for more details.
     
parsec_kadets
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Jan 21, 2004, 12:19 PM
 
I think for a class action lawsuit to work Apple would have to actually refuse to fix the screens or claim that nothing was wrong. I'll bet you that if you called up Apple right now they would be more than happy to try to fix the problem again. Why do I say this? Because Apple stated in their earnings call that there has been an unusually large number of problems with the 15" PB, and as a result they have a larger than normal stock of replacement parts. In addition, Apple stated that this problem has been solved and does not affect currently shipping units.

Besides, what would be the result of a lawsuit? I bet Apple would just settle to repair all the affected units, which is what they're doing already. So I guess the ball is in your court. You can either keep your PB the way it is and be eternally pissed off at Apple, or you can give them a second chance and probably end up finally being satisfied with your PB. Would you rather be pissed off or satisfied? The choice is yours.
     
Badwisdom
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Jan 21, 2004, 12:38 PM
 
Ive had three Al15' 1,25 Powerbooks in the space of two weeks, and i must say this is the worse experience ive had with Apple so far. 17' and 12' models were near perfect, but with the 15' i got : sticky keyboard keys, system freeze, white spots, uneven illulination, latch problems, warped screens, warped cases, broken trackpad buttons, etc.

The current one i use is near perfect (slight warp case above the Superdrive, about an inch. Not a biggie). But the screen is still a problem for me. Compared to a two year old PC notebook from ASUS, the screen is feel is STILL unevenly lit, if ever so slightly. Not much a bother until you work in photoshop with a white background, which i do regularly : then you can not NOT notice it. And whats strange is that it isnt ALWAYS the case : the screen seems to stabalise sometimes to a uniform lighting, but sometimes i can see a dark patch somewhere. Then a few hours it disappears again. Really weird.

I really feel Apple should get decent screens for the 15', because there IS a problem with the current ones, and i dont see the point in closing your eyes to this fact. But then again, a class action suit isnt the answer either. Im thinking of writing to Apple to express my disappointment with what should have been a brilliant machine (which the 12' and 17' Rev B are, IMHO). And don't tell me i had to wait for a Rev B 15', that is not an excuse, nor an explanation.

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voicebox
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Jan 21, 2004, 07:52 PM
 
Originally posted by Badwisdom:
Ive had three Al15' 1,25 Powerbooks in the space of two weeks, and i must say this is the worse experience ive had with Apple so far. 17' and 12' models were near perfect, but with the 15' i got : sticky keyboard keys, system freeze, white spots, uneven illulination, latch problems, warped screens, warped cases, broken trackpad buttons, etc.

The current one i use is near perfect (slight warp case above the Superdrive, about an inch. Not a biggie). But the screen is still a problem for me. Compared to a two year old PC notebook from ASUS, the screen is feel is STILL unevenly lit, if ever so slightly. Not much a bother until you work in photoshop with a white background, which i do regularly : then you can not NOT notice it. And whats strange is that it isnt ALWAYS the case : the screen seems to stabalise sometimes to a uniform lighting, but sometimes i can see a dark patch somewhere. Then a few hours it disappears again. Really weird.

I really feel Apple should get decent screens for the 15', because there IS a problem with the current ones, and i dont see the point in closing your eyes to this fact. But then again, a class action suit isnt the answer either. Im thinking of writing to Apple to express my disappointment with what should have been a brilliant machine (which the 12' and 17' Rev B are, IMHO). And don't tell me i had to wait for a Rev B 15', that is not an excuse, nor an explanation.

Cheers
Hi Badwisdom
You have hit the 'nail on the head' - as we say over here!
My screen also seems to 'stabalise' - then a dark patch appears from the bottom right hand corner - then after a couple of hours it disappears .... then returns - only darker!
I talked with Apple UK this morning and described the problem - I was told that the screen definately needed replacing .... I was given the option of having it replaced here in London or Amsterdam ... Dear God ... Amsterdam!!

On the other hand I've got an after service insurance with the company who sold it to me last November (2 months ago), so I think I'll give them a chance to help.
What really bugs me though is that when one has spent 1599 (stirling) on a laptop I expect it to be pretty damn perfect - I have owned three other PC laptops and they were excellent - it was the operating systems that were the problem, Windows 98 and Windows Xp - NOT the box they were assembled in ...! Three laptops - three perfect screens ...!
I bought Apple because I believe the Mac OS X/Panther system to be far superior to anything else - and so it is - hip, hip hooray .... BUT for 1599 I require, nay DEMAND a PERFECT BLOODY SCREEN ...!!!
And I say to 'parsec_kadets', that veteran member - no, I am not pissed off, nor am I satisfied - I am just saddened. Because of the OBVIOUS lack of quality control on the part of Apple, and therefore allowing the reputation of a terrific machine, the 15" Powerbook, to be undermined and potentially destroyed!!!
Cheers .....
     
RayK
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Jan 22, 2004, 09:45 AM
 
And not everyone has had these problems. My 15" AL is perfect. So, just saying that they are out there, contrary to what these forums would lead you to believe.
     
voicebox
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Jan 22, 2004, 08:03 PM
 
Originally posted by RayK:
And not everyone has had these problems. My 15" AL is perfect. So, just saying that they are out there, contrary to what these forums would lead you to believe.
Hi RayK,
I bought my 15" AL in the middle of November 2003 and it was perfect - until 4 days ago .... and there's the rub ....
The 15" Powerbook is a great piece of kit and please don't misunderstand me - I would advise anyone to go out and buy one immediately.
But sadly, at the moment the Apple quality control department in charge of 15" Powerbooks seem to be on vacation .......
The people who are responsible for buying in the screens need a kick in their respective backsides .....!!
Yours, not in anger - but in frustration -
voicebox
     
chipchen
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Jan 22, 2004, 09:48 PM
 
I worked at an Apple reseller. I saw literally hundreds of 15" PowerBooks. Both brand new and used (people would bring them in all the time to use the wireless, get things fixed, ask questions, etc).

I've only seen a FEW of these issues. Regarding white spots... I only saw a FEW of these issues also.

MOST SATISFIED USERS STAY SILENT. You can't count all the complainers out there and decide that over 50% - 70% of all PowerBooks have this problem.

If I had to guess.. 5-7% experience some sort of hardware problem.
     
KP*
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Jan 22, 2004, 10:15 PM
 
I have no way of knowing how many PBs total have this problem (mine has white spots, but no general unevenness as far as I can tell), but clearly among all laptops, Apple and otherwise, the Al15" specifically (and maybe some late TiBooks) has a higher number of screen defects. Something wasn't right in the design or assembly of this particular model, and good for them if they are no longer shipping defective ones, but initially they were. Maybe it was a lot, maybe a little, but to say that it's normal for LCDs to be defective misses the point that this particular PowerBook -- not the 17" or the 12" or the latest from Dell or Sony -- has a whole lot of screen problems. If these problems were common among all LCDs we would be hearing owners of all LCD-equipped computers complaining equally.

I'm not going to make judgements about how many there are or what Apple is or isn't doing right, but I just want to point out that the Al15" does suffer from more screen defects than the average laptop.
     
Nebrie
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Jan 23, 2004, 12:24 AM
 
Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
When you and every other laptop customer decide to pay twice as much for your laptop. Perfect lcds would drive laptop prices up so high that no one would purchase them.
You're thinking of the annoying people who come in here to cry and sue any time one pixel out of ~100 million doesn't light up.
     
(",)PB12
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Jan 23, 2004, 12:45 AM
 
I had to live with the slight defect as well. But the overall experience for the 15inch is still rather good. THis is my second powerbook .. the first was a 12 inch and it has a perfect lcd. I guess some ppl out there just feels that a good laptop matched with hefty price tag should be perfect in every way. Well i guess its just too bad as far as the 15 inch is concern. I do agree that the 15 inch has it flaws as compared to the other models but i'll wait and see if it the condition worsens. Best of luck to ill fated users ... find peace. =)
     
jindrich
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Jan 23, 2004, 10:12 AM
 
just to add to the case.

i bought my 1.25 superdrive in November. The screen had 1 white spot and 4 dead pixels right off the box. in december had 4 white spots and uneven illumination.

the screen was replaced in january 10.

the new screen has (besides one stuck red pixel) uneven illumination as well. But strangely, it's changing. The first week, the right side was noticeable lighter than the left one. Now it's the right side the dark, and in the bottom mid-right a very dark shadow in the form of half a circle.

Apple IS having problems with the 15" manufacturing. There are just too many defective units.

btw, my sample has other problems as well: right speaker hardly sounds, the superdrive rejects 20-30% of DVDs (movies) and is very slow copying; and after changing the screen for the new (defective) one, my case was warped just where the superdirve is, and both the kb and trackpad have been assembled unproperly.

I know this is not what happens to everyone, but Apple manufacturing process/ quality control has never been this bad since 1984.
     
parsec_kadets
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Jan 23, 2004, 12:51 PM
 
Why does everyone assume this is Apple's fault? Samsung is the company that makes the LCD panels, not Apple. It is up to Samsung to do quality control on the LCDs, not Apple. The only QA Apple should have to do on the LCD is make sure it turns on and gets proper video. I mean, if the hard drive failed two weeks after you opened the box would you blame Apple for that too? A reasonable person would blame Hitachi (or Fujitsu, or whoever) for building a faulty piece of hardware, not Apple for putting it into the computer. This notion that it's somehow Apple's fault that your LCD started having problems several MONTHS after they built the thing is beyond ridiculous. How are they supposed to know that was going to happen?
     
hadocon
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Jan 23, 2004, 02:34 PM
 
Originally posted by parsec_kadets:
Why does everyone assume this is Apple's fault? Samsung is the company that makes the LCD panels, not Apple. It is up to Samsung to do quality control on the LCDs, not Apple. The only QA Apple should have to do on the LCD is make sure it turns on and gets proper video. I mean, if the hard drive failed two weeks after you opened the box would you blame Apple for that too? A reasonable person would blame Hitachi (or Fujitsu, or whoever) for building a faulty piece of hardware, not Apple for putting it into the computer. This notion that it's somehow Apple's fault that your LCD started having problems several MONTHS after they built the thing is beyond ridiculous. How are they supposed to know that was going to happen?
Umm, there are many ways Apple could be at fault. Apple assembles the computer - perhaps the displays are being broken during manufacture of the Powerbook itself. We all know that Apple was intending to use 15.4 displays, and at the last minute changed it for a 15.2 - Meaning that the case and manufacturing process were geared for using another part. What I am trying to say here is that Apple puts everything together. This is not a trivial task. Apple is responsible for the "fit and finish"... Actually on the powerbook product page it actually says "marvel over the fit and finish" - Yay! I am marvelling over a crappy display! - and it is most likely Apple's fault.



heck - even if it is Samsung, or LG that is supplying bad parts - Apple is not properly testing stock. If they were they would see the problem and get another display vendor - maybe even sue the display vendor because of breach of contract (not able to supply working displays).

come on now - le's just kill the debate over if customers are justified in whining about the 15" - One of the reasons why I buy Apple is for the "fit and finish" - Apple even uses the fact that they offer great fit and finish in their product literature. Can all affected Powerbook owners just agree to say to Apple "I don't love the fit and finish of my Powerbook."
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Cellery
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Jan 23, 2004, 02:36 PM
 
Originally posted by parsec_kadets:
Why does everyone assume this is Apple's fault? Samsung is the company that makes the LCD panels, not Apple. It is up to Samsung to do quality control on the LCDs, not Apple. The only QA Apple should have to do on the LCD is make sure it turns on and gets proper video. I mean, if the hard drive failed two weeks after you opened the box would you blame Apple for that too? A reasonable person would blame Hitachi (or Fujitsu, or whoever) for building a faulty piece of hardware, not Apple for putting it into the computer. This notion that it's somehow Apple's fault that your LCD started having problems several MONTHS after they built the thing is beyond ridiculous. How are they supposed to know that was going to happen?
True, but some of the problems (like the white spots) were caused by Apple's design and engineering, in which the back of the LCD panel was being pressed by the spacers in the case. Definitely not Samsung's fault. I had a Sony VAIO with uneven illumination a few years ago, and it turns out that the light diffusing sheet behind the display was bent slightly by the mounting, causing the uneven illumination. So it very well could be Samsung's fault for delivering bad quality panels, but Apple could have a hand in it as well.
     
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Jan 23, 2004, 04:31 PM
 
Is this still happening with the Newer screens? Supposedly the ones AFTER Dec. 6th I believe have had the white spot problem fixed. Has anyone with a Screen or Laptop bought after this date had any other problems with the screen?
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parsec_kadets
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Jan 23, 2004, 05:36 PM
 
Originally posted by hadocon:
We all know that Apple was intending to use 15.4 displays, and at the last minute changed it for a 15.2 - Meaning that the case and manufacturing process were geared for using another part.
We do? Sorry, but I don't read MacOSRumors.com and other rumor sites as fact. Maybe you do, but I prefer evidence over rumors. As for my assertion that it's Samsung's fault, well Apple said as much during their last earnings call. I guess you could be a conspiracy theorist and claim Apple is attempting a cover up, but I would believe Apple over anyone who posts here.

Anyway, please don't misunderstand me. If you have a display with white spots you are perfectly justified in calling Apple and asking them to replace or repair the display. And I bet you Apple will do it. What I don't understand is why you complain here. Do you expect us to do anything about it? Are you asking me to fix your display? Or one of the Moderators? Like I said before, you can either complain here and be eternally pissed off, or you can complain to Apple and give them the chance to satisfy you.
     
hadocon
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Jan 23, 2004, 06:55 PM
 
Originally posted by parsec_kadets:
We do? Sorry, but I don't read MacOSRumors.com and other rumor sites as fact. Maybe you do, but I prefer evidence over rumors. As for my assertion that it's Samsung's fault, well Apple said as much during their last earnings call. I guess you could be a conspiracy theorist and claim Apple is attempting a cover up, but I would believe Apple over anyone who posts here.

Anyway, please don't misunderstand me. If you have a display with white spots you are perfectly justified in calling Apple and asking them to replace or repair the display. And I bet you Apple will do it. What I don't understand is why you complain here. Do you expect us to do anything about it? Are you asking me to fix your display? Or one of the Moderators? Like I said before, you can either complain here and be eternally pissed off, or you can complain to Apple and give them the chance to satisfy you.
OK to start. I am not complaining about white spots. I have never had this problem. I have a display that is much darker in some areas than others. NO this is not normal for screens. This is my 5th Powerbook, and total of 8th LCD display. All others do not exhibit this flaw - except for one, that has a dead bulb.

I know that you don't hang out here all the time, but some of us do and I am one of them. Believe you me. I am way more obsessed about my Powerbook than you are. Can you spell "Asbergers Syndrome?"

Don't you think that I have already called Apple about my display? Don't you think that they told me that they would replace my display at no cost to me (other than being without the unit for a few days) like they have everyone else? What is currently happening is that Apple is more than happy to "fix" the display by replacing it with another display. The problem is that these replacement displays are also flawed. THERE IS NO PERMANENT FIX. There, I said it.

What is a customer supposed to do? What happens when my applecare runs out in a year? The screen goes dark again and I am forced to pay for a fix. Do you know how expensive these parts are?

I am not a conspiracy theorist as you may suggest. I am only cognizant of the fact that it will cost Apple quite a bit of $ and tarnish the brand to not only post a recall of the unit, but also find a permanent fix (may involve changes to the chassis).

These forum allow people to talk about thier Apple products - yes, sometimes they complain about products. It happens. Think of this as our own personal Consumer Reports by US and for US.
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gif32
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Jan 24, 2004, 03:41 PM
 
I'm on my third LCD for my 15" AlBook (two replaced for white spots.) I was so happy to go a few weeks without them on this one, and then BAM! the right side of the display got dimmer than the left.

Anyway as a glimmer of hope to those experiencing a similar problem, it appears to have gone away now that I let my PowerBook stay inside for 24 hours. I had dismissed the single-digit temperatures as a cause because I really only have it outside for a max of 20-30 mins at a time, and then it's always sleeping in its bag.

But whether coincidence or not, the problem has gone away after sitting in 70 degrees for a day.
     
PeterKG
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Jan 24, 2004, 04:15 PM
 
Originally posted by gif32:
I'm on my third LCD for my 15" AlBook (two replaced for white spots.) I was so happy to go a few weeks without them on this one, and then BAM! the right side of the display got dimmer than the left.
I am hoping like hell white spots return. My replacement LCD has a dead white pixel. I would have rather had the white spots instead. I don't care what others say. I won't get so used to the dead pixel so as to forget it's there. Pisses me off to have one on such an expensive machine since the original was pixel perfect sans the white spots.
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Shaughn
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Jan 25, 2004, 01:02 AM
 
Originally posted by gif32:
I'm on my third LCD for my 15" AlBook (two replaced for white spots.) I was so happy to go a few weeks without them on this one, and then BAM! the right side of the display got dimmer than the left.

Anyway as a glimmer of hope to those experiencing a similar problem, it appears to have gone away now that I let my PowerBook stay inside for 24 hours. I had dismissed the single-digit temperatures as a cause because I really only have it outside for a max of 20-30 mins at a time, and then it's always sleeping in its bag.

But whether coincidence or not, the problem has gone away after sitting in 70 degrees for a day.
You know gif, I really hope that's not the case.

Living in New England, having my PB in the cold sometimes is inevitable, even if it's from my house to my car and then in the car as it warms up.

I wouldn't expect to use it outside in NE weather, but it should be able to survive a short jaunt in the cold when the screen is not in use. I don't know that this is the problem, but if it is and I'd known about it, I would've gone with a different laptop or even a Windows one. I need my machine to be mobile.

Like I said, I really hope there's a more viable solution; other notebooks don't have this problem.

~S~
     
Link
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Jan 25, 2004, 03:01 AM
 
Apple never makes mistakes

It's not apple's fault.

2 plus 2 equals 5

Oceania was always at war with east asia.
Aloha
     
Paul Huang
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Jan 25, 2004, 03:32 AM
 
The lid construction is the problem for the bad LCD display.

I have already seen hundreds of units with unacceptable quality. NONE of the 15.2" aluminum units that I have worked pass my standard.

When it is flawed, it is flawed. The "turn it to maximum brightness" is an unacceptable solution.
     
docholiday
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Jan 25, 2004, 04:14 AM
 
Originally posted by Paul Huang:
The lid construction is the problem for the bad LCD display.

I have already seen hundreds of units with unacceptable quality. NONE of the 15.2" aluminum units that I have worked pass my standard.

When it is flawed, it is flawed. The "turn it to maximum brightness" is an unacceptable solution.
While I agree that many are flawed, my currently 2nd replacement (the first was replaced because of white spots, the second replaced because of white spots and bad/uneven illumination) is absolutely beautiful.

It is almost twice as bright as my old screens. Subjectively, I feel the display shows colours more vibrantly too. This is especially noticeable when looking at high resolution photos.

Anyway, I think if you contact Apple you will get the service you need.

docholiday
Powerbook 15.2" G4 1.5Ghz
1GB RAM, 80GB 5400rpm
4GB iPod Mini, Rev 2, Green
     
lunaticbunny
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Jan 25, 2004, 04:48 AM
 
Originally started with a 15" AlBook, had the screen replaced once due to spots and uneven illumination. All was fine, for about a week - no more spots but the uneven illumination came back. Just bought a 17" AlBook last week, guess what? Yup, pretty bad uneven illumination and it's only getting worse with use. sigh....
     
Forbodium
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Jan 25, 2004, 05:46 AM
 
It happens to my 2001 iceBook.

Turning the brightness all the way up and then back to regular brightness works, but the issue still sucks.
     
moyashi
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Jan 25, 2004, 12:10 PM
 
I support Apple by buying their products.

However, why is a replacement screen acceptable? If you pay that much money a replacement would peeve me off especially if the machine was less than one month old.

Would you allow this from any other company?

You spend enough on a machine, have it in the shop for a week and nothing to drive during that time. But it's apple so it's acceptable?

Sure they're willing to replace it.
Sure they're willing to avoid large problems.

Audi not so long ago blamed the owner's of the cars that decided to shift into gear and smash anything that was in front of it. The owner was to blame. lolo ... Took Audi 10 years to recover from there statements.

I've had my share of problems and I totally think that this 15" issue really needs to be examinded much more closely.

hmmm, a recall and a full machine replacement would repair much of what has been damaged. I remember a story about Saturn recalling and replacing cars that had radiator fluid problems. Now that is what I call service.

What do 15" big money spenders get? lolo, replacement parts

Mac users are fanatics and they'll take it anyway you give it

I still buy Apple but I'm wondering if what they're selling isn't really lemons

lolo .... replacement parts and no use of a machine is OK? acceptable? reasonable?
     
Photoretoucher
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Jan 25, 2004, 12:51 PM
 
I have been hearing about this for the
15" powerbooks for a long time. This is not just a issue for that powerbook. I have a 667mhz Powerbook that will be 3 years old in Dec of 2004. I bought it brand new from the Apple store in Connecticut. Within 6 months I had the white spots resembling clouds and stuff covering over half my screen. A year after that, Apple replaced all of my casing for the entire computer and the screen with brand new parts at no cost. The Screen looked great for about 2 weeks, and then the discoloration started to return. It is no where near as bad as it was, and before my Apple Extended Warranty is up I plan on having it done again.
I don't think that this is something that Apple has control of. It looks great leaving them. Whoever is making the screens is the problem, IMHO.
     
MACALEX
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Jan 25, 2004, 01:33 PM
 
I've got PowerBook G4 15" Al 1.25Ghz in the end of December, before New Year and really happy with my cute and fast PowerBook, never had any problems, but I wish keyboard lights were a little brighter and battery life is a little higher, 2 hours it's not really what I expected.
( Last edited by MACALEX; Jan 25, 2004 at 03:57 PM. )
     
parsec_kadets
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Jan 25, 2004, 02:40 PM
 
Originally posted by Link:
Apple never makes mistakes

It's not apple's fault.

2 plus 2 equals 5

Oceania was always at war with east asia.
<sarcasim>It's always Apple's fault. Nobody else ever makes mistakes.</sarcasim>

Look, I'm not saying that it's not possible that Apple made a mistake in building these machines. I'm simply asking people to consider the fact that it could have been somebody else too.

As for worrying about what will happen if the the screen looks messed up a year from now, after the warranty is up, that's a very valid concern. I'm not sure what Apple's policy is about that, but I do know that they keep a record of the issues a particular machine has encountered. It may be possible to convince them that a problem that you're experiencing, even after a machine is out of warranty, is the same problem, or related to a problem that Apple failed to resolve. I haven't heard of anyone doing this though. Sadly, the only choice you have is to wait and see.

I would also like to add that my conspiracy theorist comment wasn't meant to be directed at you, hadocon, but rather at anyone in general who would believe that Apple is just trying to shift blame (which nobody here has actually said). My initial annoyance with this topic was ronnan's desire to just sue someone after Apple didn't solve the problem the first time. Trust me, if I were in the same boat you guys are in with this problem, I would be just as annoyed. But, I would probably make Apple pay by constantly sending the PB back to them and insisting they replaced the LCD every time this problem cropped up.

Finally, Apple said in their earnings call that issues with the LCD have been fixed. IIRC, they didn't specifically say that it was the white spots issue. Hopefully that means they fixed this issue too. One can only hope.
     
tumblemonster
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Jan 25, 2004, 03:29 PM
 
I have a 15inch with both problems. I have major white spots and really bad uneven illumination. I haven't yet taken it in because I've been working.

What would be the point anyway? If they just come back. I have a year to get it fixed. I'm going to wait until they solve both problems.

-tm
     
Shaughn
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Jan 25, 2004, 03:42 PM
 
Originally posted by parsec_kadets:

Finally, Apple said in their earnings call that issues with the LCD have been fixed. IIRC, they didn't specifically say that it was the white spots issue. Hopefully that means they fixed this issue too. One can only hope.
If I'm not mistaken, that was about the white spot issue. Even if it wasn't, there has not been a solid fix since that announcement that anyone's heard anything about.

I know it's not possible, but I wish I could know what's going on at Apple regarding this issue. I am thankful that they've been replacing screens. This doesn't seem to be a permanent fix, however.

My two main worries are that:

1) Apple will decide that this problem falls within spec.

2) Apple decides that this is somehow user damage, and not covered by Applecare. If the screens are leaving them in good shape, who's to say that the problem isn't user caused?

Hopefully neither of the above will happen.

The problem is fairly common; in one of my local Apple Stores, I turned the brightness down on one of their 15" demo models. Lo and behold... unevenly lit.

It seems to me it's possibly a combination of factors, most likely the screen fit within the case assembly. Why? If the screens are leaving Apple in good shape, it would stand to reason that it's something within normal use that's accelerating the problem. Perhaps opening and closing the lid warps something that distributes the illumination? Or damages the connection between the screen and the video board?

It's hard to say, as I'm not enough of a visuals techie to know all about how this system works. But it would seem to me that it's not entirely Apple's fault, nor is it entirely the fault of the screen manufacturer. Some kind of combination of the two seems most accurate to me.

~S~
     
flypenfly
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Jan 25, 2004, 04:26 PM
 
Just an FYI, just like any major manufacturer excxept for IBM's T and X series, Apple gets its laptops made in Taiwan by a big standard maker that also makes laptops for Dell and TOshiba.
     
Balthisar
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Jan 25, 2004, 07:24 PM
 
Originally posted by parsec_kadets:
Why does everyone assume this is Apple's fault? Samsung is the company that makes the LCD panels, not Apple. It is up to Samsung to do quality control on the LCDs, not Apple. The only QA Apple should have to do on the LCD is make sure it turns on and gets proper video. I mean, if the hard drive failed two weeks after you opened the box would you blame Apple for that too? A reasonable person would blame Hitachi (or Fujitsu, or whoever) for building a faulty piece of hardware, not Apple for putting it into the computer.
What about the Ford Explorer? It's infamous for a problem that Goodyear caused. But no one blames Goodyear! "Ford should have ensure they're using quality parts" is what I hear.

I'm not picking nits; I work for Ford and agree with you 100%. Even though my new 15" was sent out for repair the day after I got it (I took it to the Apple Store yesterday).
     
flypenfly
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Jan 25, 2004, 08:31 PM
 
I thought it was bridgestone/firestone not goodyear.
     
nagromme
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Jan 25, 2004, 09:35 PM
 
My 15 1.25 has been perfect from day one. No white spots, no bad pixels, no dark spots. Everyone--yes, PC users too--are amazed by the machine and the screen quality. I get compliments from people all the time.

I've had it for almost two months and never bothered to post this or answer polls about it, although I frequent lots of Mac forums. The truth is, people WITH problems are more likely to complain. Anyone claiming to know the frequency of the problems does not in fact know.

(There is a SLIGHT unevenness visible ONLY in the darkest colors, near black. White is perfect. And when I look at other models of laptop, even ones I'd been using before, their black is MORE uneven than mine--I just never noticed it! And who would? We're talking very minor variation. But a vocal minority of AlBook owners have had a very real white-spot problem before Apple fixed it--and that issue made me look for problems in my own book. Look hard enough at anything and you'll see something!)

I also have to say, I expected this thin machine would be fragile, and it's a tank. I can press HARD on the back of the screen and get NO visible effect. I though I'd avoid squeezing it tight with one hand to pick it up. Now that I have it, I have no such fears. I don't baby it and it doesn't need it. It has zero flex. The latch has play, intentional by design, and I found that odd at first. But it's harmless.

As for the finish--nothing seems to be able to scratch this machine. Or rather, I have hit metal things on it, and it has occasionally scratched... and rubbing with a finger has taken every mark right out!

This machine will look like new for years, I can tall. And I thought my Lombard was well-built!

I'd recommend a 15" PowerBook without hesitation. Not during the first batch when Apple was catching problems--which they ADMIT to and FIX when a case arises--but now that time has passed, I'd recommend one to anyone.

One suggestion to Apple: change the software so the keys are always fully-on or fully-off. Having them half-lit serves no function--it makes the symbols closer to the silver of the keys. It's not as if the keys are going to blind anyone and need to be turned down. Now... the screen is another matter--VERY bright and crips! That DOES need to be turned down in a dark room. Good thing we have ambient light sensors

Obviously people do have problems sometimes, and they SHOULD post about it and seek help. But anyone who thinks those problems are the norm or that Apple refuses to fix them is worrying needlessly. Apple gets stuff from lots of suppliers and packs a lot into a thinner package than other laptop makers dare to try to engineer. Sometimes an issue arises. And Apple makes such elegant and well-built systems that a defect stands out when you wouldn't even notice it on another brand. But remember that Apple has the lowest hardware failure rate of any PC maker, and the most effective support. Consumer Reports did a VERY large survey to determine that.

Buy an AlBook and you'll probably get a perfect one like mine. If you have problems currently, Apple will fix them voluntarily. Talk of lawsuits is just emotional venting. That's how people are. They're angry, and they exaggerate the problem to make it seem like more people share their pain than really do. Don't be too hard on them--you'd be angry too if you had the same bad luck. And most Mac buyers don't read forums anyway, so made-up claims of 50% failures really can't do that much damage

Until C-Net starts quoting forum postings and calling them "many Apple customers"...
nagromme
     
nagromme
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Jan 25, 2004, 09:51 PM
 
Also, some general advice:

1. If you have a problem that's not too severe, and your stuff is already installed on your new 'Book anyway... keep using it. Get it fixed in a few months instead. Why? Newer parts, and more expertise on the part of the repair staff.

2. Being firm but NICE on the phone (or in person) is a much better way to get a problem solved than being a jerk. The person you are talking to will be nicer in return, and if not, you can demand firmly to talk to someone else. If you get a jerk on the other end, as is always possible, you'll still get farther by politely refusing to back down, than by getting immature.

In my case, Apple support has been outstanding, even in fixing problems that were MY OWN creation. In both of my encounters with them (mainly involving a failed IBM hard disk), they bent over backwards to help me--and that was with a 3-year old PowerBook at the very end of AppleCare.
nagromme
     
sedmands
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Jan 25, 2004, 10:53 PM
 
I am interested to see this thread. I have a Powerbook titanium 550 that started having uneven illumination after about a year, however it is different from what I am seeing described in the forums. Mine has a dark halo that starts in the bottom center of the screen and radiates up and out a couple of inches. It is present at all screen intensities and doesn't change in response to reboot, PRAM reset etc. Would love to believe there is a relatively inexpensive fix.
     
Target Practice
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Jan 25, 2004, 11:04 PM
 
Originally posted by parsec_kadets:
Why does everyone assume this is Apple's fault?
Here's why...
( Last edited by Target Practice; Jan 27, 2004 at 07:13 PM. )
     
moyashi
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Jan 25, 2004, 11:13 PM
 
Yes, I do agree that Apple will most likely fix most issues with the screen. I too can suggest getting a powerbook (albiet I've had my fair share of problems too). I still suggest to friends to buy Apple products.

However, I can not understand why a machine that is less than a week ago has to go in for repairs? What do you get in return? Minus 1 machine to use for the down time! No loaner, no store credit. Just a simple sorry. hmpf, not enough!

Replacement parts take time to get replaced. I make money with my machine and when it's down I loose moeny.

As for getting a higher level person on the phone. What a joke! I've been held at the first person who answered the phone almost every single time and this was after being polite, then firm, then angered. lolo, they've even given me an out of service number after demanding a main phone number for Apple. Can we say -- tough luck

lolo and I still buy Apple.

It seems if you're willing to play by their rules, their time schedules, and their game you can get things done. But, why does that have to be? Why pay for their game? It's hard earned money that we spend!

Back to the issue though. I would really like to see Apple to come out of the closet and just issue a recall on these first generation books if nothing else to rebuilt lost consumer confidence. Everybody that I talk too that owns a powerbook know of this issue and keep their fingers crossed that their machines will survive until thier next one.

Sure this could be user usage related too but a powerbook is a notebook/laptop and that means the machine is intended for portable use.

hmmm, I wish that the iBook had a 15" screen since I'd probably go back to that instead of using a Ai.
     
kaleberg
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Jan 26, 2004, 12:10 AM
 
Oh no, not Samsung! They make garbage. I had their multisystem VCR to watch PAL & SECAM movies on my NTSC TV and it died in less than a year. I had a Powerbook yoyo power supply fail on me. I checked the fine print - yup - Samsung!

No offense to the millions of hard working Koreans out there, but I also had bad luck with another, more conventional Korean VCR.

At least with VCRs, I can buy Japanese. The Japanese understand quality control.

I suppose you can do much worse than Samsung though. Has anyone bought any running shoes from Nike in the past ten years? How long did they last? Did they even fit right? Where were they made? Try to imagine a Nike laptop.

I hope that Apple and Samsung can get their act together. Made in Japan once meant shoddy stuff. Check out the tin ape factory in the movie Ikuru. I'm old enough to have bought one of those tin apes, new. Now, made in Japan means top drawer. There's no reason Samsung can't upgrade too.
     
macgyvr64
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Jan 26, 2004, 12:21 AM
 
I didn't read all of the posts, but I've seen that before...is the illumination permanent? I've seen it happen from pressure or a temperature change...it goes away after about an hour or so..
     
 
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