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Vote For Hank!!!! (here bible thumpers, come here!)
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Ca$h68
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Jul 31, 2002, 04:21 PM
 
This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well-groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first, saying,

John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come VOTE FOR HANK with us."

Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to vote for him anyway? It's not even an election day."

John: "If you vote for Hank, he'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, he'll beat you up."

Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

John: "Hank is a multi-billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do what ever he wants, and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you vote for him."

Me: "That doesn't make any sense. If Hank built and owns the whole town and can do whatever he wants, why does he even need to be elected to something? Why..."

Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth voting for him just once?"

Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

John: "Then come vote for Hank with us."

Me: "Have you already voted for Hank?"

Mary: "Oh, yes, we sure did! And ..."

Me: "And has he given you a million dollars?"

John: "Well, no, you don't actually get the money until you leave town."

Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"

Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and he beats you up."

Me: "Do you know anyone who voted for Hank, left town, and got the million dollars?"

John: "My mother voted for Hank for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"

John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

Me: "So what makes you think he'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

Mary: "Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty dollar bill on the street."

Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"

John: "Hank has certain 'connections.'"

Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't vote for Hank he'll beat you up."

Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to him, get the details straight from him..."

Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

Me: "Then how do you even vote for him?"

John: "Sometimes we just close our eyes and vote, thinking of Hank. Other times we vote for Karl, and he lets Hank know for us."

Me: "Who's Karl?"

Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about voting for Hank. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to vote for him, and that Hank would reward you?"

John: "Oh no! Karl's got a letter Hank sent him years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."

John handed me a photocopy of a handwritten memo on "From the desk of Karl" letterhead. There were eleven items listed:

1. Vote for Hank and he'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
2. Use alcohol in moderation.
3. Beat up people who aren't like you.
4. Eat right.
5. Hank dictated this list himself.
6. The moon is made of green cheese.
7. Everything Hank says is right.
8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
9. Don't drink.
10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
11. Vote for Hank or he'll beat you up.
Me: "This would appear to be written on Karl's letterhead."

Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."

Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."

Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

Mary: "Not now, but years ago he would talk to some people."

Me: "I thought you said he was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist beats people up just because they're different?"

Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

Me: "How do you figure that?"

Mary: "Item 7 says, 'Everything Hanks says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

John: "No way! Item 5 says, 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says, 'Use alcohol in moderation,' item 4 says, 'Eat right,' and item 8 says, 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."

Me: "But 9 says, 'Don't Drink,' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says, 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock...."

Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from outer space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the idea is that two or more massive bodies may have collided early on during the formation of the solar system to create the Earth-Moon system. But not knowing exactly how the moon was formed doesn't have anything to do with whether it's made of cheese."

John: "Aha! You just admitted that scientists can never be sure, but we know Hank is always right!"

Me: "We do?"

Mary: "Of course we do, Item 5 says so."

Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying, 'Hank's right because he says he's right.'"

John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

Me: "But.... Oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

John [As Mary blushes]: "That's a clarification of Item 4. Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

Me: "Well, then, it's OK to eat hamburgers without buns? How about bratwurst?"

John: "Well, now, hold on. Let' s not make things more complicated than they have to be. Those kind of details are best left to the professional experts on Hank and his rules."

Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"

John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"

John [Shouting, as Mary looks stricken]: "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

Mary: [sticks her fingers in her ears] "I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."

John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that...."

Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."

John [catching Mary as she faints]: "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank beats you up I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll vote for Hank for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."

With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.

Taken from <a href="http://church.freethought.org/9903.hank.html," target="_blank">http://church.freethought.org/9903.hank.html,</a> very cool website btw.

- Ca$h
     
turboSPE
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Jul 31, 2002, 11:06 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ca$h68:
<strong>This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well-groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first, saying,

*snip*

Taken from <a href="http://church.freethought.org/9903.hank.html," target="_blank">http://church.freethought.org/9903.hank.html,</a> very cool website btw.

- Ca$h</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Come on Cashie, if you're going to post that, at least post the unedited version.
     
Phanguye
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Aug 1, 2002, 02:18 AM
 
ha ha pretty good

phang
     
Socially Awkward Solo
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Aug 1, 2002, 02:21 AM
 
<img src="http://lordco.virtualave.net/enter/tickle/tickleme.GIF" alt=" - " />

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malson
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Aug 1, 2002, 02:37 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
<strong>&lt;image removed&gt;</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">That is so very wrong. Please don't post that again.
Yeah, about those TPS reports, didn't you get the memo?
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AKcrab
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Aug 1, 2002, 03:05 AM
 
Why would he post it again? It's in the post right above yours?
     
Socially Awkward Solo
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Aug 1, 2002, 03:09 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by AKcrab:
<strong>Why would he post it again? It's in the post right above yours? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Ya, why would I post it again?

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rampant
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Aug 1, 2002, 03:20 AM
 
LMAO! GG_crucified.
     
MikeM32
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Aug 1, 2002, 03:41 AM
 
I was almost arrested last night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

"So Called" harrassment of my former former boss. Apparrently she hired a detective. They finally came here. I will now have my revenge

Mike

<small>[ 08-01-2002, 03:43 AM: Message edited by: MikeM32 ]</small>
     
Socially Awkward Solo
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Aug 1, 2002, 03:44 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by MikeM32:
<strong>I was almost arrested last night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

"So Called" harrassment of my former former boss. Apparrently she hired a detective. They finally came here. I will now have my revenge

Mike</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Come again?

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AKcrab
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Aug 1, 2002, 03:47 AM
 
And the reason Mike didn't start a new thread, now that he has a bonafide topic is?
     
MikeM32
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Aug 1, 2002, 03:48 AM
 
I knew it would get attention, just kidding. Sorry about that <img border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" title="" src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" />

Mike
     
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Aug 1, 2002, 03:52 AM
 
What is this #7?
     
rampant
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Aug 1, 2002, 03:53 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by MikeM32:
<strong>I was almost arrested last night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

"So Called" harrassment of my former former boss. Apparrently she hired a detective. They finally came here. I will now have my revenge

Mike</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">That's the funny thing about stalking. <img src="http://www.tournament.com/forums/images/smilies/rpoint.gif" alt=" - " />
     
Millennium
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Aug 1, 2002, 07:48 AM
 
Amusing. Bad metaphor, but amusing.

You've been getting a lot angrier, it seems. And once again, you're mistaking Biblical literalism for Christianity. Why do I get the feeling that either Lerk or I hit a nerve with our theories in the "A serious discussion..." thread about why you're really doing this?

And by the way, how's your girlfriend? You haven't said much about her recently.
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Aug 1, 2002, 07:55 AM
 
cash - I've "known" you for 2 years now. Ask for an increase in your living allowance from your parents and change your pharmacist.
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Lerkfish
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Aug 1, 2002, 10:30 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by AKcrab:
<strong>Why would he post it again? It's in the post right above yours? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Ya, why would I post it again?

<img src="http://lordco.virtualave.net/enter/tickle/tickleme.GIF" alt=" - " /></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">oh. I get it, you're mocking christians...or is it your tired of elmo's whiney voice?

If this is the best atheists hypocrites can come up with, its pathetic indeed.
     
Lerkfish
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Aug 1, 2002, 10:32 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Zimphire:
<strong>What is this #7?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">by my count, if you count the buddhist thread that was really a veiled troll against christians....kind of pathetic, isn't it?

They are too neanderthal to come to their own spiritual maturation, therefore they must detract from others who have.

very sad, indeed.
     
Lerkfish
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Aug 1, 2002, 10:37 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Millennium:
<strong>Amusing. Bad metaphor, but amusing.

You've been getting a lot angrier, it seems. And once again, you're mistaking Biblical literalism for Christianity. Why do I get the feeling that either Lerk or I hit a nerve with our theories in the "A serious discussion..." thread about why you're really doing this?

And by the way, how's your girlfriend? You haven't said much about her recently.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">hm...you mean struck a nerve with this?.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I wasn't thinking of Pilate, but it does fit. My reference was indeed as NDBounce and others have noted: Mark 6:11.
Although, I really wanted cash to have to look it up.
the reference "shaking the dust off my sandals" refers to when Jesus sent his disciples out in the world to preach, going from city to city. He said if what they had to say was accepted, great, but if the city did not accept them, then go outside the city and shake the dust off your sandals as a testimony against them.
Ca$h is getting his information from a website that is anti-christian and takes selected bible quotes out of context to portray christians or the bible as horrible. I've been trying (at least initially) to convince him that blindly believing that website, which has an agenda and is less than truthful, is worse than blindly following Jesus. In fact, I wanted him to stop being so rigid and unthinking and instead actually read the bible and come to his own conclusions. As I have.
But I've given up on that. I don't believe in proselyzing per se, I think if someone wants to learn about god, they'll be drawn to you and an opportunity will present itself. But THEY have to be in the right frame of mind or its pointless. In my assessment, Ca$h actually is desperately afraid the bible is for real, that is why he's fixated on the damnation part and won't let go of it, because that's the part that scares him the most. So, on some level he DOES believe it or else the judgement aspect would just be ho-hum to him. Since that's his obsession its because deep down he's feeling somewhat convicted in spirit. He's really close to acceptance but he is too afraid to believe at this point and that is why he is so vehemently antagonistic, because that makes him feel safer....but, at the same time right now he is SO adamant, there is no reaching him until something within him changes. that is why he doesn't seem to be listening when people answer his questions...he's not interested in an answer, and he is like people who have been abused who block out memories. Right now, he is blocking out anything that might actually help him understand what is actually vexing him and it is invisible to him.
Please understand I don't think everyone who is bashing christians is in this particular situation. Because Ca$h is fixated on hell and damnation, instead of just opposed to christianity in general is a classic stance of someone right before they convert, because they are at some level understanding the nature of sin but rejecting the wages of sin. At this level, the anger against God for being "judgemental" comes out. If someone simply disagree with christianity, they wouldn't care if God were judgemental because it holds no impact to them. Especially if you add in that he seems "hell-bent" to attack other christians for not believing ENOUGH the way he thinks they should believe, and you see what I"m getting at. If you don't believe in a religion, why do you care if its followers are vigilant enough? Oh, ca$h believes alright, he's just in denial because to admit it would mean he'd have to view his life as it really is at that point, which he's afraid to do. The only reason I'm shaking off my sandals is not because I think he's a lost cause but because that's the only thing to do at this point. Its similar to when your dealing with a drug addict, you can't start counseling if the substance is still in their bodies. They have to get clean first, and THEN start learning about why they were addicted and how to avoid it.
Of course, this is just my opinion, but it seems crystal clear to me that I'm right here.
Maybe someday Ca$h will understand his own spiritual condition and will change, but not right now. First he has to work this out of system through persecution of other christians until he finally realizes the futility of that. If and when he does address this issue rationally, he will likely feel bad about his behaviour today.
But, that doesn't mean I have to be like an enabler to an alcoholic. I simply refuse from this point on to reflect back to him responses that will only keep him addicted to his own fear. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">
     
Ca$h68  (op)
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Aug 1, 2002, 10:49 AM
 
You just keep telling yourself that Lerk.

- Ca$h
     
Ca$h68  (op)
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Aug 1, 2002, 10:53 AM
 
btw, I'm not an athiest, I just think Christianity is a lump of **** . To summarize it would be god=good, humans= bad.

Oh well Johnny got an A in English class! It's because he prayed the night before, and that Jesus loves him! No no no, it's not because he was studying at all, its because of god! Oh he didn't pray? Well its god trying to get into touch with him and god gave him the power to do well in that spelling test!

Next day:

Johnny got an F in History! It's because he didn't pray the night before, and that he was denying Jesus. No no no, its not because he never opened his history book, its because he wasn't paying homage to his supreme creator! Oh he did pray? Well its god trying to get into touch with him and explain that sometimes life has its low moments!

PFft.

Whatever, as far as I'm concerned, you CANNOT pick and choose. You either have to be ONE way, or the other. And this is why I'm so annoyed with most people who call themselves 'christian'. They want to ONLY take the good parts, and completley ignore the bad. They do this in the bible, they take out the good parts (which are universal to all faiths) and ignore tha bad (the whole 'christian' part of it). When something bad happens they blame it on humans, and when something good happens they give the credit to god.

If we had some straight up REAL christians I would have LESS of a problem, because they'd show no signs of rational thought whatsover, so who cares about them. However, people who I respect show all the signs of rational and logical thought processes, yet completely abandon it when it comes to religon.

&gt;sigh&lt;

- Ca$h
     
ringo
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Aug 1, 2002, 11:05 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ca$h68:
<strong>Whatever, as far as I'm concerned, you CANNOT pick and choose. You either have to be ONE way, or the other. And this is why I'm so annoyed with most people who call themselves 'christian'.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Who the fcuk are you to tell someone what they CAN and CAN'T believe. Lots of people here think that the Neon that you love is a lousy piece of $hit, but no one's told you that you HAVE to change your mind about it. You're being a prick. 'Effing deal.

Sincerely,
A non-Christian.
     
driven
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Aug 1, 2002, 11:09 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ca$h68:
<strong>btw, I'm not an athiest, I just think Christianity is a lump of **** . To summarize it would be god=good, humans= bad.

Oh well Johnny got an A in English class! It's because he prayed the night before, and that Jesus loves him! No no no, it's not because he was studying at all, its because of god! Oh he didn't pray? Well its god trying to get into touch with him and god gave him the power to do well in that spelling test!

Next day:

Johnny got an F in History! It's because he didn't pray the night before, and that he was denying Jesus. No no no, its not because he never opened his history book, its because he wasn't paying homage to his supreme creator! Oh he did pray? Well its god trying to get into touch with him and explain that sometimes life has its low moments!

PFft.

Whatever, as far as I'm concerned, you CANNOT pick and choose. You either have to be ONE way, or the other. And this is why I'm so annoyed with most people who call themselves 'christian'. They want to ONLY take the good parts, and completley ignore the bad. They do this in the bible, they take out the good parts (which are universal to all faiths) and ignore tha bad (the whole 'christian' part of it). When something bad happens they blame it on humans, and when something good happens they give the credit to god.

If we had some straight up REAL christians I would have LESS of a problem, because they'd show no signs of rational thought whatsover, so who cares about them. However, people who I respect show all the signs of rational and logical thought processes, yet completely abandon it when it comes to religon.

&gt;sigh&lt;

- Ca$h</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Kinda like you do.

Side note: Who keeps saying that these are NOT unprovoked Christian bashing threads? Ca$h goes out of his way to stoke the flames ....
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driven
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Aug 1, 2002, 11:11 AM
 
Also:
Doesn't the TOS have something about no hateful posts? (I forget the wording but I remember reading that?)

Is this to be enforced or is it just lip-service?

If this place is seriously going to be a hypocritical hate-forum then I don't see what value it adds anyone. (Other than the PC folk who may wish to point out the ignorance of Mac users.)
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Aug 1, 2002, 11:17 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ca$h68:
<strong>btw, I'm not an athiest, I just think Christianity is a lump of **** . To summarize it would be god=good, humans= bad.

Oh well Johnny got an A in English class! It's because he prayed the night before, and that Jesus loves him! No no no, it's not because he was studying at all, its because of god! Oh he didn't pray? Well its god trying to get into touch with him and god gave him the power to do well in that spelling test!

Next day:

Johnny got an F in History! It's because he didn't pray the night before, and that he was denying Jesus. No no no, its not because he never opened his history book, its because he wasn't paying homage to his supreme creator! Oh he did pray? Well its god trying to get into touch with him and explain that sometimes life has its low moments!

PFft.

Whatever, as far as I'm concerned, you CANNOT pick and choose. You either have to be ONE way, or the other. And this is why I'm so annoyed with most people who call themselves 'christian'. They want to ONLY take the good parts, and completley ignore the bad. They do this in the bible, they take out the good parts (which are universal to all faiths) and ignore tha bad (the whole 'christian' part of it). When something bad happens they blame it on humans, and when something good happens they give the credit to god.

If we had some straight up REAL christians I would have LESS of a problem, because they'd show no signs of rational thought whatsover, so who cares about them. However, people who I respect show all the signs of rational and logical thought processes, yet completely abandon it when it comes to religon.

&gt;sigh&lt;

- Ca$h</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">You're just not even making sense anymore. I mentioned the book of Job in ONE of the other threads on this topic, read it for yourself and think about it a little, or maybe even a lot! God set things in motion and we have free will and we suffer from the consequences of our choices! Johnny earns the A or the F, God can intervene if He want but it's obvious from the last few chapters of that book that in most cases He prefers not to.

Anyone using you're arguments to justify their postion has as childish and understanding of their faith as you do.
     
Earth Mk. II
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Aug 1, 2002, 11:26 AM
 
Ok, first, Lerk - I don't mean any offense, but you need to clam down. I'm defiantly reading some aggression in your posts (and sig), and while it may not be unwarranted, it's needless and hate breeds hate. (or "violence begets violence," or "those who live by the sword die by the sword," whichever you prefer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ). But seriously. Chill.

Ok - Ca$h, you've realized one of the fundamental truths of the universe: Sh!t happens. Congratulations. Do you want a cookie?

Look, if you want a specific question answered, ask. There's nothing wrong with questions. But posting threads and baiting "bible thumpers" into here isn't doing anyone much good - unless, of course, you like watching the flames roll by, but then you're not making an attempt to be reasonable in the first place and should just be ignored.
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driven
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Aug 1, 2002, 11:30 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Earth Mk. II:
<strong>Ok, first, Lerk - I don't mean any offense, but you need to clam down. I'm defiantly reading some aggression in your posts (and sig), and while it may not be unwarranted, it's needless and hate breeds hate. (or "violence begets violence," or "those who live by the sword die by the sword," whichever you prefer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ). But seriously. Chill.

Ok - Ca$h, you've realized one of the fundamental truths of the universe: Sh!t happens. Congratulations. Do you want a cookie?

Look, if you want a specific question answered, ask. There's nothing wrong with questions. But posting threads and baiting "bible thumpers" into here isn't doing anyone much good - unless, of course, you like watching the flames roll by, but then you're not making an attempt to be reasonable in the first place and should just be ignored.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Why tell Lerkfish to calm down but pat Ca$h on the head and send him on his way? Cash needs to calm the he11 down too. He used to be a nice, somewhat misguided kid but now he's an obnoxous pain in the a$$.
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Lerkfish
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Aug 1, 2002, 11:40 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Earth Mk. II:
<strong>Ok, first, Lerk - I don't mean any offense, but you need to clam down. I'm defiantly reading some aggression in your posts (and sig), and while it may not be unwarranted, it's needless and hate breeds hate. (or "violence begets violence," or "those who live by the sword die by the sword," whichever you prefer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ). But seriously. Chill.

Ok - Ca$h, you've realized one of the fundamental truths of the universe: Sh!t happens. Congratulations. Do you want a cookie?

Look, if you want a specific question answered, ask. There's nothing wrong with questions. But posting threads and baiting "bible thumpers" into here isn't doing anyone much good - unless, of course, you like watching the flames roll by, but then you're not making an attempt to be reasonable in the first place and should just be ignored.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">me you want to silence, and him you want to redirect.

I posted this in another thread in response to another person, and not all of it applies to you, since you TRIED to be balanced, but it bears repeating:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"> But here is the result of my experiment. I made ONE attacking somewhat post, and how many people have called me on it and asked me to modify my posting into a more acceptable mode? Quite a few, and those few never to my knowledge berated people who have been insulting christians.
You admit insults have been hurled. WHERE WERE YOU THEN? did you feel impelled to post a similar post like this to those people?
er...um....I guess not. My point is that when I tried to post similar to what you just have, I was told to suck it up and take, develop a thicker skin, stop whining, whatever. Its a double standard.
Do I think its ok for me to attack people who think differently to me? no, I am making a point. The point is, this forum tolerates thread after thread of christian bashing with little or not reprimand, yet just let one christian return in kind, and everyone comes out of the woodwork to chill that person out.
Can you not see the hypocrisy involved? Most of these people who would NOT stand up for the right of christians not to be harrassed on these forums are standing up now. Bravo! I think they should stand up, but for EVERYONE. I object that christians are acceptable fodder for unruly behaviour and everyone else just winks at it, ignores it, or dumps on the victims for defending themselves. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">

<small>[ 08-01-2002, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Lerkfish ]</small>
     
Lerkfish
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Aug 1, 2002, 11:43 AM
 
essentially, after several days and seven threads bashing christians, all it took was me to turn the tables and now suddenly its "gone too far" and I need to "chill out"?

the timing is a little suspect.
     
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Aug 1, 2002, 11:58 AM
 
why is anyone participating in this thread?

Ca$h is preaching worse than Zim ever did and with a lot less of a point. I can't be the only person who ignores this crap, can I?

How to tell a preacher: what they are saying is NOT debatable. It is Purity Distilled. They are not open to the posibility of being wrong. There can be no debate or discussion.

When you find one you can:
a) remain in the audience and agree with them
b) remain in the audience and yell at them if you enjoy that sort of thing.

or

c) leave the audience.
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Aug 1, 2002, 12:00 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
<strong>why is anyone participating in this thread?

Ca$h is preaching worse than Zim ever did and with a lot less of a point. I can't be the only person who ignores this crap, can I?

How to tell a preacher: what they are saying is NOT debatable. It is Purity Distilled. They are not open to the posibility of being wrong. There can be no debate or discussion.

When you find one you can:
a) remain in the audience and agree with them
b) remain in the audience and yell at them if you enjoy that sort of thing.

or

c) leave the audience.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">LOL! well put and right to boot!
     
Ca$h68  (op)
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Aug 1, 2002, 12:01 PM
 
I'm calm. I think a lot of you intelligent 'christians' that only believe certain parts of hte bible and completely ignore other and constantly defend it with weak ass arguements are complete idiots, but I'm calm.

- Ca$h
     
Chuckmcd
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Aug 1, 2002, 12:03 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Lerkfish:
<strong>essentially, after several days and seven threads bashing christians, all it took was me to turn the tables and now suddenly its "gone too far" and I need to "chill out"?

the timing is a little suspect.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Lerk,

I don't have time or the patience to post here as you have. But FWIW, you've conducted yourself in a Christian manner for all the posts I have read. I agree with about the suspect timing of this whole "it's gone to far" thing, but I think you have nothing to regret in the way you've conducted yourself.

I sure none of this is news to you, but sometimes it's nice to hear it from someone else.
     
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Aug 1, 2002, 12:07 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
<strong>why is anyone participating in this thread?

Ca$h is preaching worse than Zim ever did and with a lot less of a point. I can't be the only person who ignores this crap, can I?

How to tell a preacher: what they are saying is NOT debatable. It is Purity Distilled. They are not open to the posibility of being wrong. There can be no debate or discussion.

When you find one you can:
a) remain in the audience and agree with them
b) remain in the audience and yell at them if you enjoy that sort of thing.

or

c) leave the audience.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Unfortunately with the pervasiveness of these posts the only way to "leave the audience" is to leave MacNN. (Which actually may be a viable option at some point.)
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driven
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Aug 1, 2002, 12:08 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ca$h68:
<strong>I'm calm. I think a lot of you intelligent 'christians' that only believe certain parts of hte bible and completely ignore other and constantly defend it with weak ass arguements are complete idiots, but I'm calm.

- Ca$h</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">At least you are not attacking anyone personally.
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scaught
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Aug 1, 2002, 12:10 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
<strong>
Ca$h is preaching worse than Zim ever did and with a lot less of a point. I can't be the only person who ignores this crap, can I?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">i saw this thread ALMOST hit the bottom of the first page last night and thought noone would even notice.

as lerkfish and others have noted, theres been 7 threads about christianity recently (at least) and it has resulted in NOTHING. im sure someone along the way has gotten amused that they get alot of responses to their stupid posts but thats about it. just ignore it.

i mean, honestly. if you have someone blindly bashing religion and those "of faith", do you honestly think youre going to be able to even get them to calm down and even think rationally about it? i dont think people are "led" to a sense of spirituality as much as they find it themselves through some set of circumstances.
     
scaught
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Aug 1, 2002, 12:12 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ca$h68:
<strong>I'm calm. I think a lot of you intelligent 'christians' that only believe certain parts of hte bible and completely ignore other and constantly defend it with weak ass arguements are complete idiots, but I'm calm.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">i think you should stop worrying so much about what other people think.
     
Millennium
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Aug 1, 2002, 12:17 PM
 
Lerk -

Perhaps it was your theory that struck a nerve. Or perhaps it was mine: that this was prompted by a certain friend of his who wouldn't do something that he wanted to do. That this whole anti-Christian bit was at first a way of gathering ammunition to try and convince this friend otherwise, but he didn't count on people making arguments the other way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Whatever, as far as I'm concerned, you CANNOT pick and choose. You either have to be ONE way, or the other. And this is why I'm so annoyed with most people who call themselves 'christian'. They want to ONLY take the good parts, and completley ignore the bad. They do this in the bible, they take out the good parts (which are universal to all faiths) and ignore tha bad (the whole 'christian' part of it).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Oh, trust me, Ca$h, there's a lot of stuff in the Bible that isn't pleasant. With all the stuff you've mentioned, you have yet to even scratch the surface.

But not all of the stuff you say is bad really is as bad as you claim. Other stuff is there for a very definite reason, and it's not some way of teaching by example. Still others are there as little more than a historical context; "this bad stuff happened and here's what else went on" and all that. And yeah; I'm still trying to figure out why some of it's there.

But trust me, Ca$h, I do not pick and choose.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">When something bad happens they blame it on humans, and when something good happens they give the credit to god.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Not always. I don't blame humans for all the evil in the world, though it's true that I don't attribute it to God either. But even you have to admit, we humans have managed to screw up the place pretty darn well, whether or not we needed (or had) the help of any kind of deity.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">If we had some straight up REAL christians I would have LESS of a problem, because they'd show no signs of rational thought whatsover, so who cares about them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Ah, and here, once again, we see the rub. You've mistaken Christianity for fundamentalism. You knew there were no fundamentalists on this board, so you thought you would be able to gather your ammunition unopposed. But the fact that we're not all literalists seems to have caught you off-guard. You didn't expect that. And what's more, we're not what you thought we would be, and you're having trouble accepting that. Not to say that you'd ever become a Christian yourself; I don't claim to know what the future holds for anyone. But losing one's prejudices is not an easy thing. Trust me, I know.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">However, people who I respect show all the signs of rational and logical thought processes, yet completely abandon it when it comes to religon.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Um... hold on.

So being a literalist is more "rational" than not? Considering that you already said that literalists "show no signs of rational thought whatsoever". I think we have a contradiction here. People who actually think about these things, rather than blindly taking them at face value, aren't as rational as the zealots?

But I'm going to show you one last argument in favor of non-literalism. It's a certain verse in Genesis which is generally translated almost word-for-word, so it comes across pretty much the same in most translations. It's Genesis 2:23. As context, this is the very first verse we see after Eve's creation, and she has just been shown to Adam...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Unfortunately, it's the KJV again, but most translations are very close to this.

What is this? Well, if we look just a little bit earlier on, we read about God showing various animals to Adam, and Adam giving them their names. The significance of this is best discussed another time, but it seems to me as though God is giving Adam an education. And then, he shows Adam his mate.

What is this thing that Adam says? It's poetry. Granted, not very good poetry, but if we take this as a first attempt (which it probably was), that's certainly understandable.

Think about that for a second. Here's a guy, still relatively early in his education (and even worse worse than that, if you believe the common misconception that the Tree of Knowledge actually imparted knowledge in general), and he's started writing poems. We see this man using metaphors. If he could do it, then why shouldn't God be able to do the same?

And I reiterate: how's your girlfriend? You haven't spoken of her in a long time.
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thunderous_funker
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Aug 1, 2002, 12:22 PM
 
I feel bad because I was jousting with Lerk about whether or not Christians were being overly abused around here.

You see, I was ignoring this thread and couple other like it because they are pointless. I didn't even read this thread until this morning. I thought Lerk was upset about the debating (with the usual suspects spouting invective) that was going on in "Serious.." or similar threads.

I just assumed people ignore threads like this, but that assumption made an ass out of umption as they say.

This is me making amends. Now I'm going back to ignoring.
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anarkisst
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Aug 1, 2002, 12:42 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ca$h68:
<strong>With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.

Taken from <a href="http://church.freethought.org/9903.hank.html," target="_blank">http://church.freethought.org/9903.hank.html,</a> very cool website btw.

- Ca$h</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Looks like Hank John and Mary left town...

"The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable."

     
Ca$h68  (op)
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Aug 1, 2002, 12:42 PM
 
I think these threads DO have a point. They point out how BAD christianity is. Go read V's posts.

- Ca$h
     
Socially Awkward Solo
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Aug 1, 2002, 12:42 PM
 
When the hell did I ever say I was an Atheist?

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driven
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Aug 1, 2002, 12:48 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ca$h68:
<strong>I think these threads DO have a point. They point out how BAD christianity is. Go read V's posts.

- Ca$h</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">They also show the closed-mindedness, hypocracy and ignorance of the one who started the thread.
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Aug 1, 2002, 01:10 PM
 
I think it's painfully obvious that the moderators here will let this little scrotumsucker do whatever he wants.

Face it folks, Cash owns this board, and there's nothing that can be done about it save hiring a couple of brothahs to go kick his teeth in.

hmmm. Now that I think about it....

Anyone in Wisconsin wanna make $500 bucks?

<small>[ 08-01-2002, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: digimage ]</small>
     
chris v
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Aug 1, 2002, 01:10 PM
 
Two things...

1. I rarely, if ever, agree with Ca$h, and usually avoid his threads entirely. I thought the original post was hilarious.

2. Strictly speaking, the original post doesn't say a single thing about Christianity at all. It was inferred by it's readers, who took it to be about Christianity. It could apply to any inane claptrap ideology that people blindly believe in, despite contrary evidence, like Scientology. But, yes, everybody knows that Ca$h flamebaits. So what's new? Do what do, and don't bite.

CV

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Lerkfish
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Aug 1, 2002, 01:27 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by chris v:
<strong>Two things...

1. I rarely, if ever, agree with Ca$h, and usually avoid his threads entirely. I thought the original post was hilarious.

2. Strictly speaking, the original post doesn't say a single thing about Christianity at all. It was inferred by it's readers, who took it to be about Christianity. It could apply to any inane claptrap ideology that people blindly believe in, despite contrary evidence, like Scientology. But, yes, everybody knows that Ca$h flamebaits. So what's new? Do what do, and don't bite.

CV</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">you need to go further back to other threads started by him, like "the bible is ---ing gross!" This one,in and of itself was not bad, the point was he was not going to stop, it was going to be an endless assault.
As for ignoring him...if you were african-american, and thread after thread saying "blacks are stupid and lazy" kept cropping up day after day when you just wanted to discuss something else...would YOU ignore it? Or if you were homosexual, and 7 threads cropped up attacking your lifestyle and showed no signs of abating, would you ignore it?
No, you would not ignore it. You'd have to decide to either leave altogether or address the issue head on. I WAS going to leave (and other members have privately told me they were going to leave as well), but I decided that was not the best course of action.
     
driven
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Aug 1, 2002, 01:28 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by chris v:
<strong>Two things...

1. I rarely, if ever, agree with Ca$h, and usually avoid his threads entirely. I thought the original post was hilarious.

2. Strictly speaking, the original post doesn't say a single thing about Christianity at all. It was inferred by it's readers, who took it to be about Christianity. It could apply to any inane claptrap ideology that people blindly believe in, despite contrary evidence, like Scientology. But, yes, everybody knows that Ca$h flamebaits. So what's new? Do what do, and don't bite.

CV</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">You're right. "Bible thumpers" NEVER implies Christianity.
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Ca$h68  (op)
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Aug 1, 2002, 02:10 PM
 
It could refer to athiests actually, as athiests pick apart the bible specifically, and go through it with a fine toothed comb.

I just said hey bible thumpers (meaning anyone who reads the bible, Christian or Non christian) come in here and read this obnoxious outrageous story, which YOU YOURSELVES attached to Christianity (Think about that. YOU drew the similarities, not I.

One other thing: I think its funny that the jesus freaks want me to quit posting topics like this; they feel threatened and just like that V dude said, the FIRST thing Christianity does when it feels threatened is attack, insult, slander, and attempt to censor.

Then it gets proven wrong.

BTW, I'm not athiest.

- Ca$h
     
Zimphire
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Aug 1, 2002, 02:36 PM
 
Oh wow this has turned into yet another anti-christian thread. Why hasn't it been locked? Don't we have one going already? Why do atheists feel the need to push their views on Christians and keep starting these things? Heck I even toned down my sig, still the hate is coming. You can't please some people..

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Socially Awkward Solo
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Aug 1, 2002, 02:39 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Zimphire:
<strong>Oh wow this has turned into yet another anti-christian thread. Why hasn't it been locked? Don't we have one going already? Why do atheists feel the need to push their views on Christians and keep starting these things? Heck I even toned down my sig, still the hate is coming. You can't please some people..

<img src="http://sinewave.wirefire.com/forums/redundant.png" alt=" - " /></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I think both Ca$h and I said we are not atheists. So who has a hard time getting it?

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