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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Iran set to execute former U.S. Marine; U.S. vows retaliation.

Iran set to execute former U.S. Marine; U.S. vows retaliation.
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olePigeon
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Jan 9, 2012, 02:51 PM
 
BBC News - Iran death sentence for 'CIA spy' Amir Mirzai Hekmati

Oh crap. Sh*t's about to hit the fan. If they execute him, U.S. says they're going to "reopen the straight," which means completely destroying Iran's Navy. Right now I bet Israel has their hand hovering over their red button.

Couple this with Iran violating sanctions and enriching uranium for weapon purposes. Pretty scary stuff.
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andi*pandi
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Jan 9, 2012, 02:55 PM
 
Way to show you're not mentally unstable, Iran.

     
Athens
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Jan 9, 2012, 04:37 PM
 
Guess Iran wants to become another Iraq...
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Jan 10, 2012, 02:05 AM
 
Grow up and stop acting like a little girl Amerika. You pop a CIA agent into an enemy country, you can expect action against him when caught. It's not like you haven't got capital punishment for such things either.
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ghporter
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Jan 10, 2012, 07:24 AM
 
...assuming that the guy was NOT an agent (no real evidence to the contrary has been presented), then this looks a lot like Iran selecting someone they think could be an intelligence collector and deciding to make a show of a "trial" and in the process ratchet up international tensions. (While making a big show of how the Ayatollah is in charge, not their president.) Further, it seems to me that there are much better human intel sources that are already right there, including the millions of young people who really chafe at the Ayatollah running their lives.

It is always a bad idea to assume that a country like Iran (they STILL call the US "the Great Satan") is actually doing anything like this for the reason they state.

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ebuddy
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Jan 10, 2012, 08:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
...assuming that the guy was NOT an agent (no real evidence to the contrary has been presented), then this looks a lot like Iran selecting someone they think could be an intelligence collector and deciding to make a show of a "trial" and in the process ratchet up international tensions. (While making a big show of how the Ayatollah is in charge, not their president.) Further, it seems to me that there are much better human intel sources that are already right there, including the millions of young people who really chafe at the Ayatollah running their lives.

It is always a bad idea to assume that a country like Iran (they STILL call the US "the Great Satan") is actually doing anything like this for the reason they state.
^ This.

This is nothing new. Accuse an American of spying, detain him for some political or financial gain, get what you want from the US, rinse-repeat.
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Doofy
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Jan 10, 2012, 08:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
It is always a bad idea to assume that a country like Iran (they STILL call the US "the Great Satan") is actually doing anything like this for the reason they state.
I still call the US "the Great Satan". And what you've just said about countries stating false reasons for actions applies to the US as much as any other country - everyone outside the US can see that you're one of the most hypocritical countries on the planet.

There's no reason for Iran to ratchet up tensions. You're doing it quite nicely for them - have been for months.
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Athens
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Jan 10, 2012, 01:32 PM
 
The US is the most hypocritical countries on the planet... But This just seems like a random innocent person being arrested, tried and will be killed for no reason just because he is American. His biggest mistake was not slapping a Canadian Flag on his backpack.
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Jan 10, 2012, 01:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I still call the US "the Great Satan".
Have you transitioned to Jihad Doofy?

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Jan 10, 2012, 01:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Have you transitioned to Jihad Doofy?
Not yet. Give it time.
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ghporter
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Jan 11, 2012, 08:21 AM
 
Doofy, you call the US "Great Satan" for reasons that are rather different from the Iranians'. (At least I hope so; you don't seem to have heartburn for us supporting the Shah, as the UK did as well and you haven't said you're also calling the Crown "Great Satan".)

Athens, the biggest reason most outsiders see the US as being "hypocritical" is that our ideals are more transparent than our reality. We (the majority of Americans) really do want more people to have more freedom in more aspects of their lives, whether they are in the US or not. The problem is that this ideal is hard to work when every other nation on the planet at some level or other is explicitly against human freedom. It could be Iran wanting to push their particular idea of Islam on everyone, or the UK (and to a lesser extent Canada) feeling that regular citizens need more "looking after" than actual freedom. But we have a long history of pushing for increased freedom wherever we interact with others. Not that our actual approach has always been what we, today, might think of as appropriate. But it's a really dumb move to interpret the actions of people in the past through the lens of today's sensibilities. That simply indicates that today's observer is incapable of accepting that people in the past had different ideas of what they were working for. As an example, people often point out that the US retained slavery for decades after England banned it-but they forget to include that Britain didn't actually stop activities that were effectively the same as slavery, and especially that colonies were not necessarily included in that ban. Look into why so many Indians wound up getting to Trinidad... It's pretty enlightening.

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Jan 11, 2012, 01:51 PM
 
I like you Glenn but your post is a perfect example of how clueless Americans are to why they are hated so much around the world. You really don't get it. The United States interferes with every one and everything and usually for its own self serving selfish interest and does not give a DAM about any other country.

I'll bold it for you. United States of America Foreign policies is the reason the United States of America is hated around the world.

Nothing to do with past slavery. Nothing to do with freedom, or Islam. And if you think you are more free in the United States then a Canadian is in Canada or a Australian is in Australia you are living in a box. You have a little more freedom from regulatory rules when it comes to making money but personal freedoms, freedom of speech and personal security no way. Not a chance. Americans have been given up those freedoms for a couple decades in the name of Security with the worse changes in the last decade. You have no personal freedoms any more.
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Jan 11, 2012, 04:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Doofy, you call the US "Great Satan" for reasons that are rather different from the Iranians'. (At least I hope so; you don't seem to have heartburn for us supporting the Shah, as the UK did as well and you haven't said you're also calling the Crown "Great Satan".)


Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Athens, the biggest reason most outsiders see the US as being "hypocritical" is that our ideals are more transparent than our reality. We (the majority of Americans) really do want more people to have more freedom in more aspects of their lives, whether they are in the US or not. The problem is that this ideal is hard to work when every other nation on the planet at some level or other is explicitly against human freedom.
There's two countries on the planet who tax their citizens while the citizen lives outside his country of citizenship - i.e. the county thinks it owns the citizen. Eritrea is the other one.

This is the problem Glenn. You're one of the least free citizenries in the western world, but you don't actually realise it.
In a peculiarly arrogant manner, the US thinks it's freer than everywhere else. Perhaps you all stood in front of the flag a little too long back in grade school?

-- Edit --

Here's an example... ...name change:

Texas: "In Texas, an adult may change their name by filing an action in the county court, in the county in which they reside, with appropriate forms. ~ The court must find (1) that the name change is for the benefit of or in the interest of the Petitioner; and (2) that the requested name change is consistent with the public interest. ~ For an order of name change to be granted, the court must find the name change in the interest or to the benefit of the petitioner and in the interest of the public. A change of name upon marriage, dissolution, or divorce meets these requirements."

UK: Send for deed poll document. Sign it in front of any witness who's not family. Job done. I could legally be "Mr. MacNN Hamstor" by the end of the week.

Still think the US is free?
( Last edited by Doofy; Jan 11, 2012 at 05:15 PM. )
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Doofy
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Jan 11, 2012, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
IYou have a little more freedom from regulatory rules when it comes to making money
Umm, not really Athens.
At least half the population of Europe and most of the population of latin American have access to financial systems and ways of making money which simply aren't accessible to anyone who holds a US passport.
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Jan 11, 2012, 05:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Umm, not really Athens.
At least half the population of Europe and most of the population of latin American have access to financial systems and ways of making money which simply aren't accessible to anyone who holds a US passport.
Well, we can, it just takes some fancy maneuvering and a little greasing.
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Jan 11, 2012, 05:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Well, we can, it just takes some fancy maneuvering and a little greasing.
Hmmm. Get on that boat and give it up dude. 30% returns await you.
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olePigeon  (op)
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Jan 11, 2012, 05:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Still think the US is free?
Depends on the state. All 50 states, and even counties in certain states, have different requirements for changing your name. In California, you file a Name Change form and submit it. A judge reviews it. The purpose of this review is so someone doesn't change their name to avoid the law or debts. Convicted sex offenders used to change their names all the time, so you can see why they instituted these additional steps.

It's not to say you can't be silly. There's a guy in Oregon who changed his name to "Captain Awesome." His legal signature is: =>☺<=
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The Final Dakar
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Jan 11, 2012, 05:51 PM
 
     
Doofy
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Jan 11, 2012, 06:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
In California, you file a Name Change form and submit it. A judge reviews it.
See, now there's that "having to ask permission from the powers that be" thing going on again.

We have a "Mr. Yorkshire Bank Are Fascist Bastards" wandering around somewhere.
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Jan 11, 2012, 07:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Well, we can, it just takes some fancy maneuvering and a little greasing.
Or, for about $10-15k, you can get a passport from the Dominican Republic. Problem solved. Supposedly one of the "cheapest"/easiest countries to get a passport from.

-t
     
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Jan 11, 2012, 08:19 PM
 
Mississippi didn't outlaw slavery until 1995.

Personally I think a big part of the nanny state is driven by the culture of litigation and we are still playing catch up to the US on that one.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Jan 11, 2012, 08:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
I like you Glenn but your post is a perfect example of how clueless Americans are to why they are hated so much around the world. You really don't get it. The United States interferes with every one and everything and usually for its own self serving selfish interest and does not give a DAM about any other country.
Is this why Canada can generally be counted on for a great deal of support both in material and military? I mean, unless you happen to have a list of detestable US foreign policies that didn't enjoy Canadian support. Otherwise, what would you have the US do to ensure the International community is aware of who all contributed to their feigned outrage?

As to the rest of your claims about freedom, I can't disagree too much as the US ranks just above Slovakia in terms of economic freedoms.
ebuddy
     
Athens
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Jan 11, 2012, 08:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Umm, not really Athens.
At least half the population of Europe and most of the population of latin American have access to financial systems and ways of making money which simply aren't accessible to anyone who holds a US passport.
I was referring to in the US itself when it comes to red tape. Business and the buck run the country. While I can get away with saying F___ U to my Prime Minister to his face with out getting arrested and holding up derogatory signs of the idiot with no fear at all to being arrested, I can't just open up a business that pollutes a river with out environmental assessments, and bureaucracy that takes a while. United States has more Corporate freedom while many places around the world have more PERSONAL freedom.

IF you have never been to the US, its a very back and white, right or wrong mentality with everything. No real grey area. Not in there thinking and no in law enforcement. Following the rules and law and order are very strict.
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Athens
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Jan 11, 2012, 08:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Depends on the state. All 50 states, and even counties in certain states, have different requirements for changing your name. In California, you file a Name Change form and submit it. A judge reviews it. The purpose of this review is so someone doesn't change their name to avoid the law or debts. Convicted sex offenders used to change their names all the time, so you can see why they instituted these additional steps.

It's not to say you can't be silly. There's a guy in Oregon who changed his name to "Captain Awesome." His legal signature is: =>☺<=
I want to change my name to "Not Sure"
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Athens
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Jan 11, 2012, 08:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Is this why Canada can generally be counted on for a great deal of support both in material and military? I mean, unless you happen to have a list of detestable US foreign policies that didn't enjoy Canadian support. Otherwise, what would you have the US do to ensure the International community is aware of who all contributed to their feigned outrage?

As to the rest of your claims about freedom, I can't disagree too much as the US ranks just above Slovakia in terms of economic freedoms.
US Ambassador threatens Canada over the idea of legalizing pot (Political Interference)
Osama Bin Ladin, former CIA trained to incite revolts.
US shelters some allies from war crime investigations because of strategic importance
US holds and detains people with no legal access or rights for years in the name of security including some as young as 13 years old
Whats the deal with Cuba, going to continue screwing that country up for another 50 years?
Bribing leaders, assassinating others that won't take the bribes when not falling in line with US economic interests.


The International Monetary Fund is just a tool for US interests.

Majority of third world counties with economic problems and food problems are kept in those positions for US interests.

And last time I checked the war in Afghanistan was a proper war with multinational support because it had something to do with harboring a criminal responsible for murdering thousands of innocent people. Afghanistan was a failed state. Canada didn't join in on the illegal and fraudulent war in Iraq.
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Jan 11, 2012, 09:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Or, for about $10-15k, you can get a passport from the Dominican Republic. Problem solved. Supposedly one of the "cheapest"/easiest countries to get a passport from.

-t
The actual passport isn't the issue, it's about being restricted for being a US citizen.
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turtle777
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Jan 11, 2012, 09:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
The actual passport isn't the issue, it's about being restricted for being a US citizen.
Uhm, well, you use the US passport for visa-less travel, and the other passport to conduct your financial business. Or what do you mean ?

-t
     
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Jan 12, 2012, 02:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Uhm, well, you use the US passport for visa-less travel, and the other passport to conduct your financial business. Or what do you mean ?
You have to acquire another citizenship then formally ditch the US one.
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turtle777
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Jan 12, 2012, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
You have to acquire another citizenship then formally ditch the US one.
No short-term solution, as you still will be subject to the IRS for 7 years, AFAIK. Also, travel will be a bitch with an el-cheapo passport from a 3rd world country.

-t
     
olePigeon  (op)
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Jan 12, 2012, 04:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
See, now there's that "having to ask permission from the powers that be" thing going on again.
But for a good reason. I don't want a pedophile named Santa Clause in my neighborhood.
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Jan 12, 2012, 04:30 PM
 
Thinking about it, they should force registered sex offenders to change names.

Like Dick Slinger or something.

-t
     
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Jan 12, 2012, 05:55 PM
 
tit, tat, serve, volley return, repeat.
Who do you think is quietly knocking off Iranian nuclear scientists (another one blown up today in his car). That's the way to get your spies back unharmed.
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Jan 12, 2012, 08:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Thinking about it, they should force registered sex offenders to change names.

Like Dick Slinger or something.

-t
ebuddy
     
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Jan 12, 2012, 08:48 PM
 
I'm definitely not a registered sex offender
     
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Jan 12, 2012, 09:22 PM
 
Yet.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Jan 12, 2012, 09:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
See, now there's that "having to ask permission from the powers that be" thing going on again.

We have a "Mr. Yorkshire Bank Are Fascist Bastards" wandering around somewhere.
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Jan 12, 2012, 09:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
But for a good reason. I don't want a pedophile named Santa Clause in my neighborhood.
Fair enough. The point was that "Amerika is so free it hurt and every other country is against freedom" is just a tad incorrect. The "rest of the west" has come to expect these kinds of statements from Amerikans, of course, who as far as we can tell are all brainwashed by a strange form of patriotism.
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Jan 12, 2012, 09:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Don't forget Tarquin Fintimlinbinwhinbimlim Bus Stop F'tang F'tang
Ole Biscuit-Barrel

Allcaps
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Jan 12, 2012, 09:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Whats the deal with Cuba, going to continue screwing that country up for another 50 years?
shhhhhhh ... Cuba is a awesome vacation destination, even more so since Canada is the only North American destination they can market to.
     
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Jan 13, 2012, 01:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I'm definitely not a registered sex offender
Hurry up with that registration.
     
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Jan 13, 2012, 07:05 AM
 
Going back to the subject at hand....

1) Iran will not execute this alleged spy. Nations do not execute spies; hell, they don't even punish them in any way. Spies are traded back to their home nation in exchange for other captured spies, or other concessions.

2) It appears that this alleged spy told Iran officials that he was coming to their country because he was concerned that his presence would be misconstrued, since he is, after all, a former Marine and a video game propagandist paid by the US gov't. I mean, is there a person here who isn't alarmed that the US gov't spend tax dollars to create sh1tty video games for moronic purposes?

3) There certainly many, many American spies in Iran. When this guy was grabbed, I felt pretty confident he was an actual spy until I saw he alerted Iranian officials that he was visiting.

4) In case no one noticed, yet another Iranian scientist was murdered in a terrorist bombing. But it's not terrorism when our side does it, right?
     
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Jan 13, 2012, 07:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Way to show you're not mentally unstable, Iran.
Uh, do you think that Iran is not crawling with US spies?
     
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Jan 13, 2012, 07:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
shhhhhhh ... Cuba is a awesome vacation destination, even more so since Canada is the only North American destination they can market to.
Do you ever watch the Nature of Things on CBC? They did a show on Cuba and ever since have been wanting to go there. Its absolutely amazing how far they have come with so few resources.
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Jan 13, 2012, 07:59 PM
 
I heard they appreciate shoelaces, so take a load if you go there.
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Jan 16, 2012, 10:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
US Ambassador threatens Canada over the idea of legalizing pot (Political Interference)
The threat was; "... this could slow down the movements of goods across the border." It was a borders logistics observation Athens and stands to reason as exchanges between two bordering countries with conflicting drug laws.

Osama Bin Ladin, former CIA trained to incite revolts.
As usual, reality makes for a much drier story. Civil war broke out in Afghanistan after Soviet withdrawal and the groups we funded were overtaken by the Sayyef sect of the mujahideen, including Bin Laden who claimed no association with the US. Of course, the mujahideen enjoyed funding from Saudi Arabia, United Kingdom, Pakistan, Israel, Indonesia, and China to name a few. Wait, is that a marijuana leaf?


US shelters some allies from war crime investigations because of strategic importance
Some allies, you mean like Canada from its treatment of Afghan detainees? It seems there's no end to material against any place you decide in your xenophobic mind is somehow more atrocious than your own next-door neighbor.

US holds and detains people with no legal access or rights for years in the name of security including some as young as 13 years old
In light of Omar Khadr, are you sure the CSIS didn't support the US or were they too busy with abuses of their own? This is the kind of mentality that believe Gitmo is horrible, rendition is "better", and security certificates under the CSIS satisfy the criteria for "legal access" and "rights". Your outrage is misdirected afaic.

Whats the deal with Cuba, going to continue screwing that country up for another 50 years?
Can you be more specific or will that just give me more fodder against you?

Bribing leaders, assassinating others that won't take the bribes when not falling in line with US economic interests.
Details or will those just clue me into the Canadian contribution?

The International Monetary Fund is just a tool for US interests.
Y'all joined in 1945 right? You gonna give me back my tools or are you gonna keep being such a bad neighbor?

Majority of third world counties with economic problems and food problems are kept in those positions for US interests.
So... there aren't any rice bags with CANADA stamped on 'em? Otherwise, you'll have to be more specific and risk that it would just give me more fodder.

And last time I checked the war in Afghanistan was a proper war with multinational support because it had something to do with harboring a criminal responsible for murdering thousands of innocent people. Afghanistan was a failed state. Canada didn't join in on the illegal and fraudulent war in Iraq.
Nope, not one bit. Well... except in the following ways;
  • Providing RADARSAT Data: Eagle Vision, a U.S. Air Force mobile ground station—which controls Canada’s RADARSAT-1 satellite and downlinks its data—was deployed to the Persian Gulf at the start of the 2003 war against Iraq. A Pentagon source told Space News, “It’s doing great things... It’s working like gangbusters.” (See pp.36-38.)
  • Training Iraqi Police: Dozens of RCMP have been deployed to Jordan to train the Iraqi police force. Canada has given some $17.5 million for the “Iraq Security Sector” which includes police training and the provision of Canadian advisors to Iraq’s Interior Ministry.
  • Training Iraqi Troops: High-level Canadian military personnel under NATO command joined the “NATO Training Mission in Iraq” to “train the trainers” of Iraqi Security Forces who are on the leading edge of the U.S. occupation. A Canadian colonel, under NATO command, was the chief of staff at the training mission based in Baghdad.
  • Leading the Coalition Navy: Hundreds of Canadian troops aboard Canada’s multibillion dollar warships not only escorted the U.S. fleet through the Persian Gulf on their way to the Iraq war in 2003, they led the war-coalition’s navy. This was said to be part of ‘Operation Apollo’ (a code name for the Afghan war), but it helped put U.S. warships safely in place for their “shock and awe” bombardment of Iraq.
  • Helping Coordinate the Air War: Canadian military personnel worked aboard U.S. E-3 Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) warplanes that directed the electronic air war by coordinating the flight paths of U.S. bombers and fighters in their destructive sorties over Iraq. - Diplomatic Support: Then-Prime Minister Chrétien supported the “right” of the U.S. to invade Iraq, although Kofi Annan said it was an illegal occupation. Chrétien also criticised Canadian citizens who dared to question the war. Chrétien said protesters gave comfort to Saddam Hussein.
  • Providing War Planners: At least two dozen Canadian war planners working at U.S. Central Command in Florida were transferred to the Persian Gulf in early 2003 to help oversee the complicated logistics of the Iraq war.
  • Freeing up U.S. Troops: Fifteen thousand Canadian troops, 20 Canadian warships and several Canadian warplanes have helped wage the Afghan war. In fact, Canada has been leading the occupation. Canada’s major role was helpful in freeing up U.S. troops for deployment to Iraq.
  • Providing Airspace & Refuelling: U.S. troop and equipment transport aircraft have flown over Canada to and from the Iraq war and many have refuelled in Newfoundland.
  • Providing Ground Troops: At least 35 Canadian soldiers were directly under U.S. command, in an ‘exchange’ capacity, on the ground, during the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
  • Providing Air Transport: At least three Canadian CC-130 military transport planes were listed by the U.S. military as helping supply coalition forces during the Iraq war.
  • Testing Weapons & Drones: Two types of cruise missiles (AGM-86 and -129) and the “Global Hawk” (RQ-4A) surveillance drone, used in Iraq, were tested over Canada.
  • Military Exports: Canada annually sells billions of dollars worth of military goods and services to the U.S.. Press for Conversion! (#52), identified about 100 Canadian companies selling parts and/or services for major weapons systems used during the current Iraq war. SNC-TEC, a major Quebec-based ammunition manufacturer, has sold millions of bullets to the U.S. military forces that are occupying Iraq.
  • CPP Investments: Through the Canada Pension Plan, Canadians are forced to invest in the 16 of the world’s top 20 war industries. These include arms producers supplying the U.S.-led war/occupation of Iraq, and the leading prime contractors for the “missile defense” weapons program.

in March 2003, then-U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci admitted that Canada was of greater assistance in the US-led war against Iraq “than most of those 46 countries that are fully supporting us.”

You might recall the above list, it was in a post you responded to with; "You do know how to research, I'll give you that. Its like the first Atomic bomb, Canada was more involved in the building, testing and development of that then even the US, another one of our dirty little secrets." So you got 'em too eh?
ebuddy
     
Wiskedjak
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Jan 16, 2012, 11:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
  • Providing Airspace & Refuelling: U.S. troop and equipment transport aircraft have flown over Canada to and from the Iraq war and many have refuelled in Newfoundland.
  • Providing Ground Troops: At least 35 Canadian soldiers were directly under U.S. command, in an ‘exchange’ capacity, on the ground, during the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
  • Providing Air Transport: At least three Canadian CC-130 military transport planes were listed by the U.S. military as helping supply coalition forces during the Iraq war.
  • Testing Weapons & Drones: Two types of cruise missiles (AGM-86 and -129) and the “Global Hawk” (RQ-4A) surveillance drone, used in Iraq, were tested over Canada.
  • Military Exports: Canada annually sells billions of dollars worth of military goods and services to the U.S.. Press for Conversion! (#52), identified about 100 Canadian companies selling parts and/or services for major weapons systems used during the current Iraq war. SNC-TEC, a major Quebec-based ammunition manufacturer, has sold millions of bullets to the U.S. military forces that are occupying Iraq.
  • CPP Investments: Through the Canada Pension Plan, Canadians are forced to invest in the 16 of the world’s top 20 war industries. These include arms producers supplying the U.S.-led war/occupation of Iraq, and the leading prime contractors for the “missile defense” weapons program.
Most of your points are valid. However, these 6 are a bit of a stretch since they are *very* indirect. Using arguments like those, one could argue that almost any country supported the invasion of Iraq. I'd bet you could even find a way to argue that Iraq supported the invasion of Iraq.
     
ebuddy
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Jan 17, 2012, 08:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Most of your points are valid. However, these 6 are a bit of a stretch since they are *very* indirect. Using arguments like those, one could argue that almost any country supported the invasion of Iraq. I'd bet you could even find a way to argue that Iraq supported the invasion of Iraq.
I was just arguing from the premise Athens set with his examples. It seemed the accusations were more important than their legitimacy.
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Athens
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Jan 17, 2012, 03:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
The threat was; "... this could slow down the movements of goods across the border." It was a borders logistics observation Athens and stands to reason as exchanges between two bordering countries with conflicting drug laws.
You are referring to Indiana Republican US Rep. Mark Souder. He was the one that said that about the border logistics. I was referring to David Wilkins and Paul Celluci. I mean its not the first time Americans have directly interfered or threatened US. The Missile defense scare program from dictator Bush is another example of that http://www3.sympatico.ca/taylormcgreal/sovereignty.html

Oh and lets not forget about the DEA illegally operating in Canada

http://www.cfdp.ca/dea.htm

" [46] What is apparent after this meeting is that CS2 and the DEA were fully aware of the requirements to carry on the
reverse sting operation within Canada. They had been frustrated by the slowness of the RCMP to respond to their request
such that the RCMP officer apologized to headquarters that if the request was not responded to quickly, there was concern
that the DEA would act without authority in Canada. This is exactly what happened on August 21, 1999"

As usual, reality makes for a much drier story. Civil war broke out in Afghanistan after Soviet withdrawal and the groups we funded were overtaken by the Sayyef sect of the mujahideen, including Bin Laden who claimed no association with the US. Of course, the mujahideen enjoyed funding from Saudi Arabia, United Kingdom, Pakistan, Israel, Indonesia, and China to name a few. Wait, is that a marijuana leaf?



Some allies, you mean like Canada from its treatment of Afghan detainees? It seems there's no end to material against any place you decide in your xenophobic mind is somehow more atrocious than your own next-door neighbor.
In light of Omar Khadr, are you sure the CSIS didn't support the US or were they too busy with abuses of their own? This is the kind of mentality that believe Gitmo is horrible, rendition is "better", and security certificates under the CSIS satisfy the criteria for "legal access" and "rights". Your outrage is misdirected afaic.
So you deny Gitmo is a horrible place. You deny that torture didn't occur there. You deny people have not been held there for years with out proper legal representation? CSIS is not holding these people. The US is. I guess next you will try to blame KGB for these crimes?

Can you be more specific or will that just give me more fodder against you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...o_against_Cuba

How much more specific can I be. Cuba seized American property and nationalized the country. And the US has made them pay ever since with what is the longest lasting embargo ever. And the only way the US will ever lift this embargo is if Cuba bows down to American political interference. Oh Americans interfering with another country, who could have thought.

Details or will those just clue me into the Canadian contribution?
Canadian contributions don't mean anything because the world associates it all with America. Not America and any other contributors. All of the G8 countries are guilty all the G8 nations are still puppets for the US so blame is still on Americans. Ever read the book from Perkins called "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" Goes into great detail how the US screwed a few south American countries for American interest including assignations. One of them being the alleged assassination of Jaime Roldós Aguilera president of Ecuador. It is the same reasons why Iraq was invaded a second time, not because of weapons of mass destruction but because Saddam Hussein, like Jaime Aguilera would not allow personal corruption to cater to American interests but put the interest of there countries first. Other words they wouldn't take it up the ass by the Americans so the Americans killed them. Iraq just happen to be the most extreme form of it. Watch this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le_OFttNkko


"According to Perkins, he began writing Confessions of an Economic Hit Man in the 1980s, but "threats or bribes always convinced [him] to stop."
According to his book, Perkins' function was to convince the political and financial leadership of underdeveloped countries to accept enormous development loans from institutions like the World Bank and USAID. Saddled with debts they could not hope to pay, those countries were forced to acquiesce to political pressure from the United States on a variety of issues. Perkins argues in his book that developing nations were effectively neutralized politically, had their wealth gaps driven wider and economies crippled in the long run. In this capacity Perkins recounts his meetings with some prominent individuals, including Graham Greene and Omar Torrijos. Perkins describes the role of an EHM as follows:
Economic hit men (EHMs) are highly-paid professionals who cheat countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars. They funnel money from the World Bank, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), and other foreign "aid" organizations into the coffers of huge corporations and the pockets of a few wealthy families who control the planet's natural resources. Their tools included fraudulent financial reports, rigged elections, payoffs, extortion, sex, and murder. They play a game as old as empire, but one that has taken on new and terrifying dimensions during this time of globalization.
The epilogue to the 2006 edition provides a rebuttal to the current move by the G8 nations to forgive Third World debt. Perkins charges that the proposed conditions for this debt forgiveness require countries to privatise their health, education, electric, water and other public services. Those countries would also have to discontinue subsidies and trade restrictions that support local business, but accept the continued subsidization of certain G8 businesses by the US and other G8 countries, and the erection of trade barriers on imports that threaten G8 industries.
In the book, Perkins repeatedly denies the existence of a "conspiracy." Instead, Perkins carefully discusses the role of corporatocracy.

“ "I was initially recruited while I was in business school back in the late sixties by the National Security Agency, the nation’s largest and least understood spy organization; but ultimately I worked for private corporations. The first real economic hit man was back in the early 1950s, Kermit Roosevelt, Jr., the grandson of Teddy, who overthrew the government of Iran, a democratically elected government, Mossadegh’s government who was Time‘s magazine person of the year; and he was so successful at doing this without any bloodshed—well, there was a little bloodshed, but no military intervention, just spending millions of dollars and replaced Mossadegh with the Shah of Iran. At that point, we understood that this idea of economic hit man was an extremely good one. We didn’t have to worry about the threat of war with Russia when we did it this way. The problem with that was that Roosevelt was a C.I.A. agent. He was a government employee. Had he been caught, we would have been in a lot of trouble. It would have been very embarrassing. So, at that point, the decision was made to use organizations like the C.I.A. and the N.S.A. to recruit potential economic hit men like me and then send us to work for private consulting companies, engineering firms, construction companies, so that if we were caught, there would be no connection with the government.[3] - November 4, 2004 interview"

Y'all joined in 1945 right? You gonna give me back my tools or are you gonna keep being such a bad neighbor?


So... there aren't any rice bags with CANADA stamped on 'em? Otherwise, you'll have to be more specific and risk that it would just give me more fodder.


Nope, not one bit. Well... except in the following ways;
  • Providing RADARSAT Data: Eagle Vision, a U.S. Air Force mobile ground station—which controls Canada’s RADARSAT-1 satellite and downlinks its data—was deployed to the Persian Gulf at the start of the 2003 war against Iraq. A Pentagon source told Space News, “It’s doing great things... It’s working like gangbusters.” (See pp.36-38.)
  • Training Iraqi Police: Dozens of RCMP have been deployed to Jordan to train the Iraqi police force. Canada has given some $17.5 million for the “Iraq Security Sector” which includes police training and the provision of Canadian advisors to Iraq’s Interior Ministry.
  • Training Iraqi Troops: High-level Canadian military personnel under NATO command joined the “NATO Training Mission in Iraq” to “train the trainers” of Iraqi Security Forces who are on the leading edge of the U.S. occupation. A Canadian colonel, under NATO command, was the chief of staff at the training mission based in Baghdad.
  • Leading the Coalition Navy: Hundreds of Canadian troops aboard Canada’s multibillion dollar warships not only escorted the U.S. fleet through the Persian Gulf on their way to the Iraq war in 2003, they led the war-coalition’s navy. This was said to be part of ‘Operation Apollo’ (a code name for the Afghan war), but it helped put U.S. warships safely in place for their “shock and awe” bombardment of Iraq.
  • Helping Coordinate the Air War: Canadian military personnel worked aboard U.S. E-3 Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) warplanes that directed the electronic air war by coordinating the flight paths of U.S. bombers and fighters in their destructive sorties over Iraq. - Diplomatic Support: Then-Prime Minister Chrétien supported the “right” of the U.S. to invade Iraq, although Kofi Annan said it was an illegal occupation. Chrétien also criticised Canadian citizens who dared to question the war. Chrétien said protesters gave comfort to Saddam Hussein.
  • Providing War Planners: At least two dozen Canadian war planners working at U.S. Central Command in Florida were transferred to the Persian Gulf in early 2003 to help oversee the complicated logistics of the Iraq war.
  • Freeing up U.S. Troops: Fifteen thousand Canadian troops, 20 Canadian warships and several Canadian warplanes have helped wage the Afghan war. In fact, Canada has been leading the occupation. Canada’s major role was helpful in freeing up U.S. troops for deployment to Iraq.
  • Providing Airspace & Refuelling: U.S. troop and equipment transport aircraft have flown over Canada to and from the Iraq war and many have refuelled in Newfoundland.
  • Providing Ground Troops: At least 35 Canadian soldiers were directly under U.S. command, in an ‘exchange’ capacity, on the ground, during the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
  • Providing Air Transport: At least three Canadian CC-130 military transport planes were listed by the U.S. military as helping supply coalition forces during the Iraq war.
  • Testing Weapons & Drones: Two types of cruise missiles (AGM-86 and -129) and the “Global Hawk” (RQ-4A) surveillance drone, used in Iraq, were tested over Canada.
  • Military Exports: Canada annually sells billions of dollars worth of military goods and services to the U.S.. Press for Conversion! (#52), identified about 100 Canadian companies selling parts and/or services for major weapons systems used during the current Iraq war. SNC-TEC, a major Quebec-based ammunition manufacturer, has sold millions of bullets to the U.S. military forces that are occupying Iraq.
  • CPP Investments: Through the Canada Pension Plan, Canadians are forced to invest in the 16 of the world’s top 20 war industries. These include arms producers supplying the U.S.-led war/occupation of Iraq, and the leading prime contractors for the “missile defense” weapons program.

in March 2003, then-U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci admitted that Canada was of greater assistance in the US-led war against Iraq “than most of those 46 countries that are fully supporting us.”

You might recall the above list, it was in a post you responded to with; "You do know how to research, I'll give you that. Its like the first Atomic bomb, Canada was more involved in the building, testing and development of that then even the US, another one of our dirty little secrets." So you got 'em too eh?
Blah blah blah blah, thank you for proving every one's point about how arrogant Americans are. America isn't hated for freedom which it actually lacks. Its hated because of people like you.
( Last edited by Athens; Jan 17, 2012 at 04:30 PM. )
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
turtle777
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Jan 17, 2012, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Blah blah blah blah, thank you for proving every one's point about how arrogant Americans are. America isn't hated for freedom which it actually lacks. Its hated because of people like you.
But of course, everybody *loves* Canadians like you

-t
     
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Jan 17, 2012, 03:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
America isn't hated for freedom which it actually lacks. Its hated because of people like you.
     
 
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