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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Moving a Trial: What's the Point?

Moving a Trial: What's the Point?
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Cody Dawg
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Oct 27, 2006, 08:50 AM
 
I want to know why, with the way that we are regularly exposed to news via the television, radio, print, and internet, judges think that moving a trial will provide for an unbiased or "untainted" jury pool.

There is a man by the name of John Couey who kidnapped a beautiful little girl in the middle of the night, sexually molested and raped her for three days, then buried her alive in a garbage bag while she was holding onto her stuffed animal until she died a horrible death from suffocation and/or dehydration.

The crime occurred north of Orlando and the judge moved the trial 50 miles away. Now the judge has moved the trial down to Miami Florida, about a 4 hour trip south or 300 miles south.

The move of the trial was featured in the local news of South Florida, television, print media, and on the internet, so what I want to know is, why in the world does this judge, or any judge, think that people in Miami are going to not be exposed to what this bastard did to this little girl?



The trial of a sex offender who is accused of kidnapping, raping and killing a Florida girl in Citrus County is being moved to Miami, for fear that media exposure would not allow for a fair trial.

John Couey is charged with the murder of nine-year-old Jessica Lunsford. However Citrus County court officials hope it will be easier to find a fair jury in Miami for Couey's February trial.

Jury selection in Tavares in Lake County was abandoned in July after three days. It was clear that too many prospective jurors had been exposed to media reports or other discussions of the case.

The judge had already moved jury selection to Tavares, about 50 miles east of Citrus County's Homosassa because of publicity surrounding the case. Jessica lived and was killed in Homosassa.

Couey has pleaded not guilty to charges of first-degree murder, sexual battery on a child, kidnapping and burglary in the slaying of Jessica.

Her body was found a month after she disappeared. Her hands were tied with speaker wire and her fingers poked through the garbage bags. Authorities say she was buried alive.
They would have to move his trial to the mountains of Wyoming for most people to not have heard about this monster.

And, anyway, no matter where the trial is moved, he'll probably get the death penalty. Too bad it won't be administered by him slowly suffocating to death in a garbage bag while dirt trickles down on him from the holes he pokes in the bag because he's terrified and crying and is trying to escape.

Death is too good for him - he deserves torture until he dies IMO.

     
Nicko
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Oct 27, 2006, 09:07 AM
 
American justice, whats the point? :/
     
Cody Dawg  (op)
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Oct 27, 2006, 09:11 AM
 
You're right.

Vigilante Justice™ is much better.

     
analogika
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Oct 27, 2006, 09:19 AM
 
Fundamental point:

There is a man by the name of John Couey WHO IS ACCUSED of kidnapping a beautiful little girl in the middle of the night, sexually molesting and raping her for three days, then burying her alive in a garbage bag while she was holding onto her stuffed animal until she died a horrible death from suffocation and/or dehydration.

It is the JURY's duty to find out and decide whether he actually did these things or not. The point of moving the trial is to at least TRY to find a jury which has the slightest interest in actually performing this duty.

We all know that you do not.

You always know everything beforehand.
     
Cody Dawg  (op)
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Oct 27, 2006, 09:25 AM
 
To quote Kevin, "Nice straw-man."



Couey ADMITTED doing it.

You're right: As far as I'm concerned he doesn't deserve a defense or a trial. He just deserves to have his life end in a garbage bag buried in a landfill while he suffocates to death.

People like you are the worst of all, illogica: You're the reason that people like Couey, who was a sexual molester set free so that he could "have a second chance" to redeem himself, are murdering innocent little girls and people. You should be ashamed of yourself; of course, I know that you're not because you have no social (American) conscience, but that's another topic.

     
Troll
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Oct 27, 2006, 09:37 AM
 
I don't like the jury system. I've worked with both and my feeling is ... if I have a problem with my car, I don't call my neighbours round to ask them what they think the problem might be. I call a mechanic or a company of mechanics. And by the same token, justice should be metered out by experts in law not the guy next door. Professional judges is the way to go. I even think that for certain crimes like terrorism, investigative judges is the way to go.
     
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Oct 27, 2006, 09:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg View Post
As far as I'm concerned he doesn't deserve a defense or a trial.
LOL! For someone who criticises vigilante justice, this statement is a bit rich!
     
analogika
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Oct 27, 2006, 09:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg View Post
Couey ADMITTED doing it.
My sincere apologies for not following your collection of tabloids, Cody.
     
Cody Dawg  (op)
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Oct 27, 2006, 09:47 AM
 
I'm glad you sympathize with child molesting murderers, analogika.

     
TETENAL
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Oct 27, 2006, 09:52 AM
 
Wow, you are stupid.
     
Cody Dawg  (op)
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Oct 27, 2006, 09:53 AM
 
Wow, you belong to the clan of Let's Defend and Protect and Free Child Molesting Rapists and Murderers.

That's okay. You're part of the liberals that are not reproducing and will soon die out and then the death penalty will be more swift and severe as more conservatives rule the courts.

     
demograph68
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Oct 27, 2006, 09:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg View Post
I'm glad you sympathize with child molesting murderers, analogika.

holy cow, mannnnnn.

edit:
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg View Post
Wow, you belong to the clan of Let's Defend and Protect and Free Child Molesting Rapists and Murderers.

That's okay. You're part of the liberals that are not reproducing and will soon die out and then the death penalty will be more swift and severe as more conservatives rule the courts.

SHE'S READY TO EXPLOOOOOOOODE
     
analogika
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg View Post
I'm glad you sympathize with child molesting murderers, analogika.

Stupid ****ing ****.
     
Nicko
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg View Post
I'm glad you sympathize with child molesting murderers, analogika.


Hmmmm I wonder if you would have this irrational outrage if it were a little black girl who had been murdered....
     
badidea
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg View Post
Couey ADMITTED doing it.
Couey has pleaded not guilty to charges of first-degree murder, sexual battery on a child, kidnapping and burglary in the slaying of Jessica.
Please explain!
***
     
Dork.
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg View Post
I'm glad you sympathize with child molesting murderers, analogika.

analogika has a better understanding of the US legal system than you do. And you respond to his reasoned analysis by basically saying that if he simply disagrees with you, he must synpathize with the child molesting murders.

Thinking of running for President anytime soon, Cody? You've got the knack for it.

No matter what the media says he admitted to or didn't admit to, if he's pleading not guilty he gets a trial, and the jurors are required to be impartial. Personally, I think that we need to modify the definition of impartiality in the day and age we live in -- media is everywhere, we're all drowning in it (and actively ingoring it most of the time, or at least I am), and simply hearing a media report on a crime should not be sufficient to eliminate an entire jury pool, IMHO.

You're right to wonder whether we should rethink what a tainted jury pool is, but please do it without the overemotional attacks on people who are legitimately trying to discuss the topic you've brought up....
     
Cody Dawg  (op)
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:27 AM
 
Running for president?



I'm glad analogika is insulted. He/she/it routinely insults other people.

The fact remains that there are people here who should put their money where their mouths are and pay for Couey's defense if they love him so much.

You want proof that he admitted killing her?

Here you go:

CBS/AP) A registered sex offender has admitted kidnapping a 9-year-old Florida girl from her home last month and killing her, authorities said Friday.

"I've got my man," Citrus County Sheriff Jeff Dawsy told a news conference.

Dawsy said John Evander Couey confessed to investigators after taking a lie-detector test.
Want more?

Here are his own words:

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JOHN EVANDER COUEY, DEFENDANT: I went out there one night and dug a hole, and put her in it, buried her. (INAUDIBLE) I put her in a plastic bag, plastic baggies.

UNIDENTIFIED DETECTIVE: Was she dead already?

COUEY: No, she was still alive. I buried her alive.

(END AUDIO CLIP)
Link - transcript from CNN live audio
     
Dakar²
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:35 AM
 
I'm curious why you post these articles for discussion when you don't seem to be interested in any conclusion other than your own.
     
JansaNova
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:38 AM
 
It is infuriating to read about the kinds of sick people in this world. I still wonder why he admitted doing it...I believe there must be two parts to this story.
     
Nicko
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg View Post
Running for president?



I'm glad analogika is insulted. He/she/it routinely insults other people.

The fact remains that there are people here who should put their money where their mouths are and pay for Couey's defense if they love him so much.

You want proof that he admitted killing her?

Here you go:


blah blah blah

Well, you are the one who brought up this trial. I'm sure most of us could care less what you think of the guy's guilt or innocence.
Maybe try the Court TV forums (if there is such a thing)?
     
analogika
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:40 AM
 
Outrage.

The thing wants OUTRAGE! Only in RAGE can she feel through the cushy nest of money and moral self-assurance she has built. Yes, it is rage that drives the true spirit of the well-meaning American. KILL THEM ALL! NOW! BEFORE THEY EAT YOUR CHILDREN.

Or something.
     
kennethmac2000
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:40 AM
 
My goodness.

I am so glad that here in civilized Europe we have the European Convention on Human Rights, which enshrines in international law, amongst other things, the right to a fair trial and the illegality and complete unacceptability of the death penalty.

Isn't it interesting how so many people in the US have this vigilante view of how justice should be administered, rather than starting from the civilized baseline that we have in Europe which says that every human being has basic rights?
     
Nicko
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by JansaNova View Post
It is infuriating to read about the kinds of sick people in this world. I still wonder why he admitted doing it...I believe there must be two parts to this story.
New and improved Chinese water torture (brought to you buy Cheney and Co.)
     
analogika
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by kennethmac2000 View Post
My goodness.

I am so glad that here in civilized Europe we have the European Convention on Human Rights, which enshrines in international law, amongst other things, the right to a fair trial and the illegality and complete unacceptability of the death penalty.

Isn't it interesting how so many people in the US have this vigilante view of how justice should be administered, rather than starting from the civilized baseline that we have in Europe which says that every human being has basic rights?
The bizarre thing about ... people ... like Cody is that US law enshrines much the same things, and very similar presuppositions and processes, with the sole exception of the death penalty.

It's just that many people, including those I apparently routinely tend to insult, simply haven't the slightest clue as to HOW THEIR OWN SYSTEM WORKS, or the reasoning behind it.
     
Millennium
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:49 AM
 
Does he deserve a defense? No. Does he deserve a fair trial? No. Should he get them anyway? Yes.

The point of a criminal justice system is that even though it's a valid view that people who choose to commit crime ought to lose such rights, it is so important that the innocent not be deprived of their rights that it is better to treat everyone is if they were innocent until proven guilty. And if some guilty people manage to escape justice because of this, then that is a shame, but it is still better than the risk of punishing an innocent person for crimes they did not commit.

As for the death penalty, I'm afraid that Kenneth and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this. I believe it is an acceptable and just consequence of certain particularly heinous crimes, such as premeditated murder and forcible rape (this last being, I admit, something I'm in a minority viewpoint on). I do also believe that because it's irreversible, it has to be administered very carefully, probably more so than the US currently does.
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:52 AM
 
So what's wrong with moving the trial? You jump conclusions about him being guilty.

The point of the American jury system is to ensure that they are unbiased observers who determine the guilt. If the prosecution can prove his guilt in Miami, then they can do so in Orlando.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
analogika
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Oct 27, 2006, 10:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Millennium View Post
Does he deserve a defense? No. Does he deserve a fair trial? No. Should he get them anyway? Yes.
See, the odd thing is that until he gets a fair trial, you have NO WAY of deciding whether he deserves anything or not. The whole point of a fair trial is presumption of innocence, meaning he deserves EVERYTHING that YOU deserve - unless you happen to be an already convicted criminal doing time.

But somehow, all you people have always made up your mind already.

A judgemental and vindictive lot, you are.
     
Millennium
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by JansaNova View Post
It is infuriating to read about the kinds of sick people in this world. I still wonder why he admitted doing it...
Part of the problem with confessions is that a surprising number of people will confess to crimes they didn't commit, and I'm not talking about confessions under torture or any other kind of external duress. They just confess.

No one really knows why this happens, though some psychologists have put forth hypotheses. But whatever the cause, this phenomenon is common enough to be a major problem for high-profile cases. During the DC sniper shootings, for example, there were quite a few confessions before anyone was actually caught. This is why the police deliberately held back certain details of the case from the media: it was a test to weed out the "crazies." Anyone who confessed would be asked questions about the crimes that involved these details held back from the media: the theory is that only the actual perpetrator should know all of these, and so while passing the quiz wasn't a 100% guarantee that you had the guilty party, it did allow you to weed out a lot of people who couldn't possibly have done it so that you could focus on investigating the people who passed the test further.

Also, consider the more recent example of John Mark Karr, the man who had supposedly confessed to killing JonBenet Ramsey. In the end, despite his apparent confession, law enforcement decided that he couldn't have done it. We're not talking NGRI (Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity) here, either: he actually didn't do it. Yet he confessed to doing so: why?
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Millennium
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
See, the odd thing is that until he gets a fair trial, you have NO WAY of deciding whether he deserves anything or not. The whole point of a fair trial is presumption of innocence, meaning he deserves EVERYTHING that YOU deserve - unless you happen to be an already convicted criminal doing time.

But somehow, all you people have always made up your mind already.
I was allowing that assumption for the sake of argument, but here's a new wording if you want one: "Does the guilty party deserve a defense? No. Does the guilty party deserve a fair trial? No. Should the guilty party get them anyway? Yes."

Better? The point here is that even if you believe that the guilty forfeit their rights as a consequence of their actions, the only way to keep from ensnaring the innocent is to treat everyone as innocent until they are proven otherwise. Even this isn't a perfect solution, but it's the best we've got.
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Cody Dawg  (op)
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:08 AM
 
I agree with Millenium:

Does he deserve a defense? No. Does he deserve a fair trial? No. Should he get them anyway? Yes.


There is more that this guy said. Like that he himself said he shouldn't have been let out of prison:

In his confession, Couey told investigators he kept Jessica in a closet in his room while the Citrus County Sheriff's Office set up a command center not far from his home. He told detectives Jessica was alive when investigators came to the door while questioning neighbors about her disappearance.

"For some reason, they came to our house but they didn't come in and search, but I wish they would have cause they would have found her, but they didn't," he said.

Couey told detectives he placed her inside a garbage bag and that she lay down in the hole without a fight. The medical examiner listed the cause of death as suffocation.

At the end of his statements to detectives, he said he wished he could go back and change things. "You know what I am?...I'm a convicted child molester. I didn't know what to do. You know, I got scared. I panicked. I feel guilty about it now, but it's too late, you know, and I do feel for her parents."
Also, the reason I brought up the trial being moved is because some of us think that his defense wanted the trial moved to Miami because the jury pool might be hispanic and not understand what is being said in English and his chance of not getting the death penalty will be better.

My point with this thread, however, is that I personally believe that the media will have advertised this enough so that the supposedly "untainted" jury pool in Miami will become aware of who this guy is...in other words, there is no such thing as moving a venue any longer in order to prevent or restrict exposure.
     
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
A judgemental and vindictive lot, you are.
Compared to you guys being a pansy, weak-willed lot?

The guy confessed under 10 minutes of questioning, and even described perfectly the circumstances and details of her murder. Duh.

Pass down the sentence, then take him behind the court house and blow his brains out.

It amazes me that you idiots will defend a society where public wife-beating is the status-quo, but get outraged by the notion of a confessed killer/rapist/pedophile being put to death. Talk about getting your priorities f***ed up... damn.
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Cody Dawg  (op)
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:17 AM
 
Compared to you guys being a pansy, weak-willed lot?

The guy confessed under 10 minutes of questioning, and even described perfectly the circumstances and details of her murder. Duh.

Pass down the sentence, then take him behind the court house and blow his brains out.

It amazes me that you idiots will defend a society where public wife-beating is the status-quo, but get outraged by the notion of a confessed killer/rapist/pedophile being put to death. Talk about getting your priorities f***ed up... damn.
Thunderous applause!



Plus, in one interview he actually says that "the system" is responsible because "the system let [him] out of prison" and he never should have been let out of prison.



And people here are defending him? I think some of you are sick in the head.
     
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:18 AM
 
Ok Macnstein grab the pitchfork, Cody get the flaming torches, Mob justice to the rescue!
     
Cody Dawg  (op)
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:20 AM
 
That's right.

Look at this transcript - the guy was arrested 23 times including for child molestation and people like you, Nicko, let him out...the truth is that the people who let him out of prison are also responsible for this little girl's murder. Wouldn't want that on MY conscience...



HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the time he was 18 years old, the jail cells John Evander Couey visited all had revolving doors.

MARK LUNSFORD, FATHER OF JESSICA LUNSFORD: He's been arrested, what did you say, 28 times?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-three.

LUNSFORD: Twenty-three times. What in the hell is this man doing out here? It doesn't matter what crime he's committed 23 times. Why is he still available to be out here and hurt people?

COLLINS: At least 24 arrests in Florida alone and 14 of those arrests made by the Citrus County Sheriff's Office, the county where Jessica Lunsford lived.

Couey's record is laced with burglaries, DUIs, drug charges, writing bad checks, none of which carried long sentences, then, in 1987 a different type of crime, a conviction for indecent exposure, three days in jail and a fine.

Four years later, John Couey was arrested and charged with fondling a child. He pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of attempted fondling and was sentenced to the maximum five years. He served a little less than half that, which was fairly typical for felons in Florida. Florida law now requires those convicted of serious crimes to serve 75 percent of their sentence. When he became a free man again, Couey had his name and photo put on a law enforcement Web site, as required, to give the public a chance to log on and see if released sex offenders were living in their neighborhood.

Couey eventually moved to this house within sight of Jessica Lunsford's home but that's not the address he had listed on a sex offender Web site.
     
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:21 AM
 
Well, assuming the case is as cut and dried as you assume it to be, there's still a very valid reason for trying to get an "untainted" jury pool. Namely, they want to make sure that when he is convicted (as seems likely) that there is no possible way to challenge the conviction on the grounds of a "prejudiced jury."

Moving this sort of a trial is far more beneficial to the prosecution than to the defense in most cases, as it helps to ensure the first conviction actually sticks and cannot be as easily challenged.
     
Cody Dawg  (op)
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:23 AM
 
Great post, G Barnett. It makes the issue a little more palatable and understandable.
     
Shaddim
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Nicko View Post
Ok Macnstein grab the pitchfork, Cody get the flaming torches, Mob justice to the rescue!
What mob justice? The guy confessed (in record time), it was perfectly accurate, and justice needs to be carried out swiftly. A duly appointed officer of the court takes the guy out back and ends his miserable life, quickly, and with mercy (something he didn't show his victim).

No mob involved. But then, that just burns down your strawman, doesn't it?
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg View Post
That's right.

Look at this transcript - the guy was arrested 23 times including for child molestation and people like you, Nicko, let him out...the truth is that the people who let him out of prison are also responsible for this little girl's murder. Wouldn't want that on MY conscience...

Who let him out of jail again? I doubt it was Nicko....
     
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
Who let him out of jail again? I doubt it was Nicko....
No, just a bunch of nutbags just like him.
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein View Post
What mob justice? The guy confessed (in record time), it was perfectly accurate, and justice needs to be carried out swiftly. A duly appointed officer of the court takes the guy out back and ends his miserable life, quickly, and with mercy (something he didn't show his victim).

No mob involved. But then, that just burns down your strawman, doesn't it?

Oh man, you guys don't watch law & order that much do you? Police confessions don't mean anything!
     
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg View Post
Also, the reason I brought up the trial being moved is because some of us think that his defense wanted the trial moved to Miami because the jury pool might be hispanic and not understand what is being said in English and his chance of not getting the death penalty will be better.

My point with this thread, however, is that I personally believe that the media will have advertised this enough so that the supposedly "untainted" jury pool in Miami will become aware of who this guy is...in other words, there is no such thing as moving a venue any longer in order to prevent or restrict exposure.
Now this is a good discussion: we're supposed to be judged by a jury of our peers, but in reality we are judged by 12 people who couldn't get out of jury duty.

This, combined with the fact that both sides get to throw out jurors who show a glint of intelligence or independant thought, makes me believe that jury selection is the most important part of a criminal case, even though it shouldn't be, all things being equal. No matter whether the accused is really innocent or guilty, with a clueless enough jury any verdict can be manufactured by the right lawyer. Heck, if the jury is composed of six CodyDawgs and six MacNSteins, then we don't even need a trial, do we?
     
Shaddim
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Nicko View Post
Oh man, you guys don't watch law & order that much do you? Police confessions don't mean anything!
They do when he gets every single point regarding the rape and murder correct.

Try and keep up.
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Dork.
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein View Post
No, just a bunch of nutbags just like him.
Really? Do they look like him? Did they steal his identity?

More importantly, I haven't seen anyone here write that he deserves to be set free no matter what, just that he's entitled to a fair trial. So you're full of it when you say that "people like him" let him out of jail. I don't even know why he's out. Maybe he's out because he served his sentence in full?
     
Shaddim
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
Heck, if the jury is composed of six CodyDawgs and six MacNSteins, then we don't even need a trial, do we?
I've been on a jury for 3 trials, 2 in which the defendant was acquitted (one of those 2 was a murder trial). In that one trial, there was no concrete evidence, no confession, and everything was circumstantial. As a jury, we had reasonable doubt, so the guy walked.

You've got your head stuck in your ass again.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Shaddim
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
Really? Do they look like him? Did they steal his identity?
They quack like him.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Dakar²
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:41 AM
 
Well this descended into the bowels of hell fairly quickly.

(Here's to hoping for 3 more pages)
     
Nicko
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
Really? Do they look like him? Did they steal his identity?

More importantly, I haven't seen anyone here write that he deserves to be set free no matter what, just that he's entitled to a fair trial. So you're full of it when you say that "people like him" let him out of jail. I don't even know why he's out. Maybe he's out because he served his sentence in full?

Exactly the point. No one should pass judgement until a trial is complete.
     
Shaddim
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
I don't even know why he's out. Maybe he's out because he served his sentence in full?
For that many counts of rape and molestation, he should have been executed long ago, and saved this girl's life.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Cody Dawg  (op)
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:44 AM
 
The point is that a bunch of child molester-sympathizers/murderer-sympathizers want to give this guy a THIRD chance to get out and rape and molest and bury alive another little girl...the guy's trial is being moved so that he has a better chance of getting off or being acquitted so that he can walk and do it again.

     
Shaddim
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Oct 27, 2006, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
Well this descended into the bowels of hell fairly quickly.

(Here's to hoping for 3 more pages)
It's more fun this way.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
 
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