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lexapro · Jul 16, 2009, 05:54 PM

Only in America? This is sickening...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=665_1247720453

ApertureValue · Jul 16, 2009, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by lexapro

Only in America? This is sickening...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=665_1247720453

I'm sure he had it coming.

starman · Jul 16, 2009, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by lexapro

Only in America? This is sickening...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=665_1247720453

What's sickening is people using "Only In America?" all the time.

Rumor · Jul 16, 2009, 08:22 PM

Better than cooperating and being shot.

James L · Jul 16, 2009, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by ApertureValue

I'm sure he had it coming.

Did you watch the video, or are you being facetious? (sorry, can't tell)

I've been a paramedic for 12 years, and I am usually the first one to come to the defense of police officers. I've gotta say, however, I didn't really see a need for the use of a taser in that video.

Chuckit · Jul 16, 2009, 08:53 PM

IMO, they should be treated the same as I would if I'd forced them to pull over and attacked them.

brassplayersrock² · Jul 16, 2009, 09:19 PM

One, wrong forum, two, stop baiting rob.

ApertureValue · Jul 16, 2009, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by James L

Did you watch the video, or are you being facetious? (sorry, can't tell)

I've been a paramedic for 12 years, and I am usually the first one to come to the defense of police officers. I've gotta say, however, I didn't really see a need for the use of a taser in that video.

Yes, I'm being facetious. I, too, have been a paramedic and firefighter for the last 16 years, so it was just a "from the hip" reaction about ANOTHER story of somebody being tased.

Chongo · Jul 16, 2009, 11:02 PM

Someone hit the jackpot.

kupan787 · Jul 16, 2009, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

Someone hit the jackpot.

I like that there were literally 8 cops there by the end of the 4 minute video, and after the guy complies to all orders (even to lay on the ground) they still taze him! Better still they pepper spray his mom when she gets out of the car to see why they just tazed her son.

Those cops need to at least be suspended without pay, or be sued in civil court. Talk about abuse of power...

turtle777 · Jul 17, 2009, 12:05 AM

F***, sometime you really gotta be ashamed of this country

-t

James L · Jul 17, 2009, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by ApertureValue

Yes, I'm being facetious. I, too, have been a paramedic and firefighter for the last 16 years, so it was just a "from the hip" reaction about ANOTHER story of somebody being tased.

I thought it was probably something like that... just couldn't tell.

Cheers,

James

Oisín · Jul 17, 2009, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

IMO, they should be treated the same as I would if I'd forced them to pull over and attacked them.

This post confuses me. Severely.

Spheric Harlot · Jul 17, 2009, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Oisín

This post confuses me. Severely.

He's saying that the police should be treated the same we *he* would be, had he forced someone off the road and tazed them.

Sealobo · Jul 17, 2009, 08:01 AM

why give the police a tazer while he already has a gun?

shifuimam · Jul 17, 2009, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by starman

What's sickening is people using "Only In America?" all the time.

Well, see, that's because the United States is the only country on the planet where the government or law enforcement ever does anything bad. I mean, countries in Central and South America couldn't possibly have corrupt law enforcement, you know. And of course the federal government in the US oppresses its people more than any other country, including Cuba, China, North Korea, and hell - every other dictatorship in known history.

The US is the antichrist, you know.

shifuimam · Jul 17, 2009, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Sealobo

why give the police a tazer while he already has a gun?

Because a tazer won't kill you when a gun might? A tazer allows someone to defend themselves or control someone without causing permanent damage (like death).

Oisín · Jul 17, 2009, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

He's saying that the police should be treated the same we *he* would be, had he forced someone off the road and tazed them.

After reading both Chuckit’s and your post through about ten times (each), I finally understand it. I think I’m suffering from pronounitis today.

Spheric Harlot · Jul 17, 2009, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Well, see, that's because the United States is the only country on the planet where the government or law enforcement ever does anything bad. I mean, countries in Central and South America couldn't possibly have corrupt law enforcement, you know. And of course the federal government in the US oppresses its people more than any other country, including Cuba, China, North Korea, and hell - every other dictatorship in known history.

The US is the antichrist, you know.

Whom you choose to compare yourself to reveals the worth of your standards. "At least we're better than" is not a standard worth setting, and certainly not one worthy of the land of the free and the beacon of democracy yadda yadda yadda.

Of course, often enough. "only in America" is just trolling, so don't let it get your gall.

ghporter · Jul 17, 2009, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

F***, sometime you really gotta be ashamed of this country

-t

WRONG!!!

It's the people we hire and poorly supervise as police officers we should be ashamed of. And of course the administrators that would rather pay for new furniture in their offices than raise officer pay, who don't do anything to screen officer candidates or don't stand up to police unions when a union member misbehaves. And the police unions that are there specifically to keep any officer from being fired, whether he's actually a sociopath or not.

The cops in this incident were out of control, and if that city doesn't wind up taking pretty harsh action against every one of them, I think the Feds will. That has all the ingredients for a major DoJ investigation.

Oisín · Jul 17, 2009, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

It's the people we hire and poorly supervise as police officers we should be ashamed of. And of course the administrators that would rather pay for new furniture in their offices than raise officer pay, who don't do anything to screen officer candidates or don't stand up to police unions when a union member misbehaves. And the police unions that are there specifically to keep any officer from being fired, whether he's actually a sociopath or not.

Call me crazy, but I’d have thought that these individual manifestations would be enough for most people to occasionally feel a bit ashamed about the country that allows (and to some extent even encourages) them in general.

When similar (or even not-so-similar) things pop up over here, I most certainly feel an occasional twinge of shame at my own country—the whole country, not just those individual things. I don’t consider that a bad thing, though—it’s simply a way of realising what things need to (be) change(d) in order to not feel ashamed of one’s country.

shifuimam · Jul 17, 2009, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Whom you choose to compare yourself to reveals the worth of your standards. "At least we're better than" is not a standard worth setting, and certainly not one worthy of the land of the free and the beacon of democracy yadda yadda yadda.

It's not so much of an "at least we're better than _____"; it's more of a "we're not the only ones that screw up". "Only in America" is a retarded thing to say, no matter what it refers to - we aren't the only country with corrupt law enforcement officers or bullshit federal mandates or annoying taxes or slow speed limits or anything else you can think of.

I'm just tired of the general attitude I find in many people (not just on NN) that America sucks and that Americans are selfish evil bastards. That kind of mindset accomplishes absolutely nothing. Bastards and assholes exist in all countries, all languages, and all backgrounds. America is certainly not unique in its population of assholes.

Salty · Jul 17, 2009, 10:23 AM

My sister's a lawyer here in Winnipeg and some of the stories she tells me about things cops do and say really makes me trust them a lot less. She's had several flat out lie on the stand,

"So you say you saw my client in the passenger side of the car, when it was night out, and there were street lights causing a reflection on the front windshield?"
"Yes."
"You saw through a reflection?"
"I can see through reflections!"

(Btw the description of her client was, young, native, in a red baseball cap. The Canadian version of the black guy did it.)

That and apparently they'll some times beat kids with phone books, because the impact gets spread out so as to not leave bruises.

ghporter · Jul 17, 2009, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Oisín

Call me crazy, but I’d have thought that these individual manifestations would be enough for most people to occasionally feel a bit ashamed about the country that allows (and to some extent even encourages) them in general.

When similar (or even not-so-similar) things pop up over here, I most certainly feel an occasional twinge of shame at my own country—the whole country, not just those individual things. I don’t consider that a bad thing, though—it’s simply a way of realising what things need to (be) change(d) in order to not feel ashamed of one’s country.

I think that if they're rare enough to be newsworthy, they're pretty darn rare. And as big as this country is, that means that a lot of people are behaving as they are supposed to. I'm ashamed that ANY police officers are allowed to behave this way, but not ashamed of my country.

Oisín · Jul 17, 2009, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

I think that if they're rare enough to be newsworthy, they're pretty darn rare. And as big as this country is, that means that a lot of people are behaving as they are supposed to. I'm ashamed that ANY police officers are allowed to behave this way, but not ashamed of my country.

I didn’t mean the incidents, but rather this:

It's the people we hire and poorly supervise as police officers we should be ashamed of. And of course the administrators that would rather pay for new furniture in their offices than raise officer pay, who don't do anything to screen officer candidates or don't stand up to police unions when a union member misbehaves. And the police unions that are there specifically to keep any officer from being fired, whether he's actually a sociopath or not.

If the country allows or even encourages such administrators and unions who act in these ways, then something should change. That’s something I’d be ashamed of my country for, not just of the administrators and unions themselves, and try to do my bit to change, on a national level.

The incidents are of course rare; but if the backing frameworks and systems are fertile soil for such incidents to appear, I’d consider it more a problem with the backing framework than with the people directly responsible for the incidents. (Not that these officers were in any way not to blame for their actions, of course—they should not be allowed to keep their job as guardian of the peace after an incident like this—but it’s even more important to attack the problem at the root than at the buds.)

ApertureValue · Jul 17, 2009, 11:44 AM

Way overblown.

You cannot control the actions of others. Free will is at play with every human on this earth, and if an individual is going to act "out of line," it doesn't matter what "frameworks" you have in place, nor how wonderful or shitty your company, department, etc. is. Individuality cannot be controlled, and this was an example of that.

I'm not ashamed when I see something like that. I'm appalled that one human did that to another, but I'm not ashamed. I see it as one jackass with some power asserting it over another human. He should be kicked in the balls, fired and not allowed to have so much as a set of car keys, but that doesn't mean EVERY officer is a jackass.

Oisín · Jul 17, 2009, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by ApertureValue

You cannot control the actions of others. Free will is at play with every human on this earth, and if an individual is going to act "out of line," it doesn't matter what "frameworks" you have in place, nor how wonderful or shitty your company, department, etc. is. Individuality cannot be controlled, and this was an example of that.

I don’t disagree. I was just going by what Glenn said and his description of administrations and unions. If that description was in any way accurate, then that would definitely be fertile soil for this kind of behaviour to increase, rather than be prevented—and that’s not good.

shifuimam · Jul 17, 2009, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by ApertureValue

that doesn't mean EVERY officer is a jackass.

THIS. My best friend's dad has been a cop for nearly thirty years. He's not a jackass. There are certain people in his jurisdiction who are complete toolbags, but not all of them are. Cops don't always have a particularly easy life. They have to deal with drunk dumbasses and people who mouth off to them and threaten them. They have to think about what could happen if they died in the line of fire - what would happen to their families and friends and the future of their loved ones.

I'd wager that there are more good cops than bad cops out there; it's that the bad ones are the ones who get the most publicity because we all like talking about how evil the fuzz is. So here's a nice video of a police officer who helped a duck family cross an interstate safely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK5A83wNzR8

Awwww.....

Anyhow, my theory with any level of law enforcement is that you do what they say, regardless of what you think they should be telling you to do. If they screw with you or do something you think is illegal, you can take action against it - just not while they're armed.

andi*pandi · Jul 17, 2009, 12:09 PM

outrageous. I also noted how it seemed one cop positioned himself right in front of the camera. And "get down on the ground, we're going to taze you." They wanted to punish this guy.

turtle777 · Jul 17, 2009, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by ApertureValue

Way overblown.

You cannot control the actions of others. Free will is at play with every human on this earth, and if an individual is going to act "out of line," it doesn't matter what "frameworks" you have in place, nor how wonderful or shitty your company, department, etc. is. Individuality cannot be controlled, and this was an example of that.

I'm not ashamed when I see something like that. I'm appalled that one human did that to another, but I'm not ashamed. I see it as one jackass with some power asserting it over another human. He should be kicked in the balls, fired and not allowed to have so much as a set of car keys, but that doesn't mean EVERY officer is a jackass.

Well, what matters is HOW this case will be treated.

Juding by past standards, those police offers will get a slap on their hands, if anything.

THAT'S what is the real shame here, that stuff like this happens and is often just swept under the rug.

-t

Oisín · Jul 17, 2009, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

outrageous. I also noted how it seemed one cop positioned himself right in front of the camera. And "get down on the ground, we're going to taze you." They wanted to punish this guy.

I think he said, “Get down on the ground or we’re going to tase you”, though the fact that he did get down on the ground didn’t seem to help much.

ApertureValue · Jul 17, 2009, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Well, what matters is HOW this case will be treated.

Juding by past standards, those police offers will get a slap on their hands, if anything.

THAT'S what is the real shame here, that stuff like this happens and is often just swept under the rug.

-t

I completely agree with that. However, there are two separate issues. There are the dou¢hebag officers who perpetrate this type of behavior in the first place (which is one, HUGE piece of the puzzle), then there are the dou¢chebag judges who don't see it fit to prosecute for gross malfeasance.

ghporter · Jul 17, 2009, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Oisín

If the country allows or even encourages such administrators and unions who act in these ways, then something should change. That’s something I’d be ashamed of my country for, not just of the administrators and unions themselves, and try to do my bit to change, on a national level.

The incidents are of course rare; but if the backing frameworks and systems are fertile soil for such incidents to appear, I’d consider it more a problem with the backing framework than with the people directly responsible for the incidents. (Not that these officers were in any way not to blame for their actions, of course—they should not be allowed to keep their job as guardian of the peace after an incident like this—but it’s even more important to attack the problem at the root than at the buds.)

This is more about how the public can accept this level of bureaucratic incompetence. And unfortunately it sometimes takes this sort of event to expose this sort of official incompetence, if not malfeasance.

IceEnclosure · Jul 17, 2009, 12:53 PM

I was awoken by the tap tap tap of a giant flashlight on my driver's window while sitting at a light in my gnarly 5.0L Mustang one morning around 4AM.

In addition to being very apologetic and self deprecating I handily passed the roadside sobriety test they administered. The officers concluded that I was probably just too tired to be on the road(coming home after a 14 hour stint at work after a night of little sleep) and had me call someone to pick me up. I was very respectful, as they'd want me to be, and it didn't hurt me to react as I did.

The guy in the video, firstly, pulled over like a crazy person. Secondly, from what I see in the video, he was a pretty stout guy. That has these cops guard up as a big guy on certain drugs can be a real handful. Also, being snooty with a cop will get you nowhere. Being snooty with 3-5 cops will get you less than nowhere. If this guy did NOTHING wrong and passes his test and is completely respectful to the cops, he probably goes home with nothing more than a ticket for pulling over like a crazy person, if that.

Instead he gets snippy about the particulars of the test, and to me didn't seem like he did well, being all bent over a couple of times during the test. Just guessing, but I'd say this guy WAS on some drug, even if it was just study-aid. Had him acting weird.

In any country, the most important time to be respectful and at your best, is when dealing with law enforcement. If you skip the respectful part, watch out: they might be ****ing crazy.

Did he deserved to get tazed at any point in the video, especially the part where he seems to clearly have his hands BEHIND his back and is laying face down on the ground? Certainly not.

IceEnclosure · Jul 17, 2009, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Anyhow, my theory with any level of law enforcement is that you do what they say, regardless of what you think they should be telling you to do. If they screw with you or do something you think is illegal, you can take action against it - just not while they're armed.

I'm sayin.

Big Mac · Jul 17, 2009, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

I was awoken by the tap tap tap of a giant flashlight on my driver's window while sitting at a light in my gnarly 5.0L Mustang one morning around 4AM.

I fell asleep with my foot on the break at a major stoplight in my city years ago. I think it was after a couple of paper writing all-nighters. Must have been around 4 pm or so. I guess I was only out for a minute or two because I woke up, saw where I was and just drove home. I always wondered how I got away with that. I suppose the other cars just went around me. Surprisingly there were very few cars on the road at that time - a main street that's usually quite busy.

I've been pulled over twice in my life so far. Got out of being cited both times by being very respectful.

Teronzhul · Jul 17, 2009, 01:00 PM

So the video is dated 01-08-06. It seems a rather long time for something as obnoxious as this to hit the internet.

I in general am not a fan of most police officers. I can't think of any reason that they needed to taze a man complying with their orders and face down on the ground. I would however like to see the entire unedited footage. I simply can't believe that there isn't somehow more to this.

turtle777 · Jul 17, 2009, 01:02 PM

See, I just disagree a bit with the "respectful towards police officers" part.

The problem is that the police officers here expect respect akin to kissing their bare asses and then what not.
As soon as you don't kiss up and cater to their inflated egos, it's immediately viewed as disrespectful.

And, btw, it would be nice if police officers would show some respect as well.
But, you know, if you're a kid on the road at night, or (*gasp*) a minority, they will approach and treat you like a criminal. That certainly doesn't help in instilling respect towards them, only fear.

-t

lexapro · Jul 17, 2009, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Teronzhul

So the video is dated 01-08-06. It seems a rather long time for something as obnoxious as this to hit the internet.

I in general am not a fan of most police officers. I can't think of any reason that they needed to taze a man complying with their orders and face down on the ground. I would however like to see the entire unedited footage. I simply can't believe that there isn't somehow more to this.

I do believe that a cop in CA shot a black man who was face down on the ground. The man was killed and the cop now faces murder charges. The story is really just as simple as that.

ApertureValue · Jul 17, 2009, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

See, I just disagree a bit with the "respectful towards police officers" part.

The problem is that the police officers here expect respect akin to kissing their bare asses and then what not.
As soon as you don't kiss up and cater to their inflated egos, it's immediately viewed as disrespectful.

And, btw, it would be nice if police officers would show some respect as well.
But, you know, if you're a kid on the road at night, or (*gasp*) a minority, they will approach and treat you like a criminal. That certainly doesn't help in instilling respect towards them, only fear.

-t

And therein lies the problem. You SHOULD respect a police officer's POSITION as the upholder of man's laws in a particular region. I've worked very closely with law enforcement for a long time (as well as having been an officer myself), and not all officers are as you generalized here. Not every officer "expects" respect, and many show an unbelievable amount of restraint and respect back TO the buttwipes who are causing the problems.

If your personal experience or what you've seen on the internet, etc. portrays a different light, then I'm sorry for that. It's just not the case everywhere. If everybody went around disrespecting law enforcement, anarchy would be just around the corner.

turtle777 · Jul 17, 2009, 01:21 PM

To be honest, I'd be cooperative out of FEAR, not out of respect. Anything else is being naive.

-t

Chuckit · Jul 17, 2009, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Also, being snooty with a cop will get you nowhere. Being snooty with 3-5 cops will get you less than nowhere. If this guy did NOTHING wrong and passes his test and is completely respectful to the cops, he probably goes home with nothing more than a ticket for pulling over like a crazy person, if that.

True in practical terms, but that's not any kind of excuse for the officers. The same advice goes for other tough-guy types like gangbangers — you want to make sure not to step on their toes, but I'm not going to blame the guy who gets beat up for not properly respecting them.

Chuckit · Jul 17, 2009, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by ApertureValue

And therein lies the problem. You SHOULD respect a police officer's POSITION as the upholder of man's laws in a particular region.

If they want my respect, they need to stop sitting at the bottom of hills to catch people who have gotten a speed boost and start actually nabbing dangerous people.

turtle777 · Jul 17, 2009, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

If they want my respect, they need to stop sitting at the bottom of hills to catch people who have gotten a speed boost and start actually nabbing dangerous people.

QFT.

-t

ApertureValue · Jul 17, 2009, 01:57 PM

Jesus, you people are impossible.

Chuckit · Jul 17, 2009, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by ApertureValue

Jesus, you people are impossible.

No, I'm really not. I'm quite easy to please. I think I've pretty well outlined in this thread what the cops need to do in order to win my approval — and none of it is even particularly difficult. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

OreoCookie · Jul 17, 2009, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

The guy in the video, firstly, pulled over like a crazy person. Secondly, from what I see in the video, he was a pretty stout guy. That has these cops guard up as a big guy on certain drugs can be a real handful. Also, being snooty with a cop will get you nowhere. Being snooty with 3-5 cops will get you less than nowhere. If this guy did NOTHING wrong and passes his test and is completely respectful to the cops, he probably goes home with nothing more than a ticket for pulling over like a crazy person, if that.

I'm all for respect towards others, but I certainly did not see open hostility. The guy was annoyed and reciprocated, but -- from what I can tell -- he remained cooperative the whole time. While you're right that the situation could have escalated, towards the end there were 6~8 cops present, surrounding him and the guy was cooperative. It looked to me that the cops were doing it out of sheer sadism and pleasure.

That alone is an abuse of power and should be reprimanded severely: cops have lots of rights and with those rights come responsibilities. Although I generally agree with Glenn's remark that training and pay should be improved, but it's not an excuse for wrongdoing.

lexapro · Jul 17, 2009, 02:44 PM

What disturbs me most is the super liberal use of a Tazer. This is a potentially lethal device that should only ever be used in severe and highly dangerous situations in order to subdue an extremely dangerous person (who isn't armed). If the person is armed then I think the cops ought to use guns, but when unarmed only a tazer. In any case, the use of a Tazer on a person who is cooperating and facedown on the ground is horrifying!

ApertureValue · Jul 17, 2009, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

No, I'm really not. I'm quite easy to please. I think I've pretty well outlined in this thread what the cops need to do in order to win my approval — and none of it is even particularly difficult. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

starman · Jul 17, 2009, 02:54 PM

SO while everyone's wasting time speculating about how much this country sucks because of one video, has any of you smartasses bothered to see if the cops got reprimanded, or are you all going to just bash the U.S. further?