[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

How do you "demand" anything from an aggressive guy with a gun and the authority to haul you off and lock you up for any reason he feels like? As ThinkInsane said, that just sounds like a way to get yourself in more trouble.

I demand this kind of performance through the system-if I see a situation where an officer behaves unacceptably, I report it. If it seems that nothing is done, I call the papers. I am not at all above stirring the pot to get something necessary done in this sort of situation. I'm not talking about chewing out a cop who's on duty-that would indeed be dumb. But if I see bad behavior I use the police department's and city's rules and report the incident.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Cops are dogs: useful only when trained and leashed. At this time, the leashes are too long and the training inadequate.

How's this for a cop-caught-on-video story: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20...html?viewAll=y

This pig deserves life in prison. But he'll never see the inside of a cell, and we all know it.

Dehumanizing ANYONE lessens the impact of their actions. This individual does not deserve to wear a uniform or even walk freely among civilized people. But he is a human being who should be held to a higher standard of public behavior because of the authority he wields-and who should receive a much harsher punishment than an average citizen for his actions. He not only committed both assault and battery, he did it with the insinuation that he was using lawful authority to do so. That last should get him a VERY long sentence by itself.

He's a lowlife scumbag of a human being, but he's a human being. He should go to a nice state prison where he'll have to be a very nice person among all the other, less scummy convicts. That alone will be an interesting and very apt punishment.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Cops are dogs: useful only when trained and leashed. At this time, the leashes are too long and the training inadequate.

You, sir, are the epitamy of ignorant.

Cops spend their time dealing with the low-lifes of our society. They deal with them so you don't have to (as often). They put their lives on the line every day, and I garauntee you its not for the money.


Ever had a family member on the force? One that stepped in front of a bullet while he was off duty? One that saved the lives of countless bystanders by taking one in the the chest?
One who's wife was 9 months pregnant (due in two weeks) and with him at the time? And not be afraid to fire back even with all of these factors?


I doubt it, because you'd never generalize the police force like that. Many cops dislike the cops that abuse their power far more than you could imagine.

It was just another sunday with his wife and expected first child, about 12 years ago, just walking through the mall when a mentally-derranged man robbed a jewelry store and was waving a gun around with hundreds of people in the mall. Happening to chance upon the situation my 1st cousin drew his service weapon and tried to calm the man down...who responded by putting one in his chest. If my cousin hadn't been wearing his kevlar after coming straight from the graveyard shift to meet his wife, he'd be dead. He was shot no more than 10 feet from his wife as she looked on in absolute horror. My cousin fired back with one shot, (put yourself in that situation and tell me you could have that kind of restraint) that hit the man's heart and killed him. No one else was hurt, my cousin just has a big bruise from the impact.

The only thing my cousin feels for that day is regret for having killed a man who didn't know what he was doing at the time...(it was revealed later that the man had a history of manic depression and mental illness). My cousin was awarded cop of the year for his district and promoted,. He's now a captain and believe you me he has more hate for cops who abuse their power then the low-lifes he deals with on a day to day basis. You want faith in cops? Go find one. Ask them why they do it. Sure there are pricks on the force, but believe me you're better off for it.

As for the cops that shamelessly abuse their powers (like the oakland murder, and this instance)...thats a different story. Don't overgeneralize. It only makes you look ignorant.

[Chuckit]

Two points of note from lpkmckenna's story:

1. Internal Affairs found no wrongdoing in the two cops who tried to destroy the evidence.
2. The girl was going to face charges for slapping the cop, but now that it turns out Lopez came from behind and assaulted her with a gun (and brought in his son who also attacked them and was carrying a gun as well), the District Attorney isn't going to charge either of the Lopez men at all.

Clearly the days of cops being above the law are not as gone as some might believe.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Two points of note from lpkmckenna's story:

1. Internal Affairs found no wrongdoing in the two cops who tried to destroy the evidence.
2. The girl was going to face charges for slapping the cop, but now that it turns out Lopez came from behind and assaulted her with a gun (and brought in his son who also attacked them and was carrying a gun as well), the District Attorney isn't going to charge either of the Lopez men at all.

Clearly the days of cops being above the law are not as gone as some might believe.

This is why the FBI has a unit specifically for investigating corrupt police organizations. If the IA and DA investigations don't find reason to act, it makes them look corrupt (maybe they are) and it's time for someone to ask for help from outside in both instances. That's using the system. I cannot believe that a DoJ investigation would fail to take some pretty potent action, especially in the latter case.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Two points of note from lpkmckenna's story:

1. Internal Affairs found no wrongdoing in the two cops who tried to destroy the evidence.
2. The girl was going to face charges for slapping the cop, but now that it turns out Lopez came from behind and assaulted her with a gun (and brought in his son who also attacked them and was carrying a gun as well), the District Attorney isn't going to charge either of the Lopez men at all.

Clearly the days of cops being above the law are not as gone as some might believe.

Maybe we need better oversight and regulations?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rampart_scandal

[lexapro]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I demand this kind of performance through the system-if I see a situation where an officer behaves unacceptably, I report it. If it seems that nothing is done, I call the papers. I am not at all above stirring the pot to get something necessary done in this sort of situation. I'm not talking about chewing out a cop who's on duty-that would indeed be dumb. But if I see bad behavior I use the police department's and city's rules and report the incident.

Glenn, I couldn't agree more! Do you think you can find any more info as to the story behind this shocking video? When was it from? Where? Were the officers ever investigated?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by lexapro 

Glenn, I couldn't agree more! Do you think you can find any more info as to the story behind this shocking video? When was it from? Where? Were the officers ever investigated?

I wouldn't know where to begin on this. Others probably do and are already looking into it. I'd love to know the outcome too.

[iranfromthezoo]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Cops are dogs: useful only when trained and leashed. At this time, the leashes are too long and the training inadequate.

Thanks for dogging my profession! With all due respect but most of you are not police officers and most of you guys sit at a desk for your job. If your a graphic designer don't you hate it when people tell you how to do stuff that they have no business or clue...You get pissed.

Listen I am not trying to cause a stink but to say that all cops are dogs and stupid is very disrespectful to people that do a good job everyday! I don't tell you how to do your job so why should you tell me how I should do mine? Yes these police officers in this particular incident went overboard, I agree. But with everyone saying that we are idiots and don't know our heads from our @$$ is ridiculous and downright degrading. And yes your tax dollars pay my salary but not even 1% of your taxes go to my salary! Yes our training is inadequate but because people don't want their taxes raised to help fund better officer professionalism, officer pay and training there will be bad apples in every group. But please realize this is how I put food on my family's table. I am proud of both jobs I have and I do it because I love doing it. Yes I may make mistakes and yes I do come off as a butthole sometimes. I do not try to be disrespectful but sometimes it happens, I don't know if your a cool guy or if you have a gun and waiting on me to drop my guard so you can do something.

No I will never shake your hand on duty, not disrespecting you but I am not going to give anyone the opportunity to catch me off guard.
No I will not let you off with a warning if you ask because you just asked...why do that?
Yes I will let you go if you are friendly, crack a smile and treat me like I am a human and not scum of the earth.

I told parents of a 12 yr old girl that she was dead today because of a car accident...I watched the girl take her last breath! You know what, I didn't want to be at work today but I had to be so I hid behind bushes, did my report, cried a lot because this 12 yr old girl is dead and people called me to make the situation better and I couldn't! Yes I ran radar in the spot she died at and gave everyone speeding a ticket and told them to slow down because a girl was killed here today...but I was too late. I did everything I could and when I wanted a break from it all I come to a place like this that thinks we do nothing but eat donuts and catch speeders all day...It hurts to know that so many people hate me. I am going to get up tomorrow and do the same thing as today because this is my job and what I love to do. So please guys...lay off, give us a break. We aren't super human who don't have our insecurities, failures or problems. We are normal people doing a job that most people don't know what its like. It's tough on us and our families so please just give us a break sometimes and room to make mistakes.

[turtle777]

Thanks for sharing, iranfromthezoo.

And in all fairness, yes, cops have to put up with a lot of sh!t, just look at this story.

Bottom line: nothing is just black and white.

-t

[lexapro]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Thanks for sharing, iranfromthezoo.

And in all fairness, yes, cops have to put up with a lot of sh!t, just look at this story.

Bottom line: nothing is just black and white.

-t

The moment they found out he was the legal resident of the home and that he ordered them out they were required to immediately vacate. Another story of cops getting all pissy that they aren't "respected" and making up completely fake charges.

This time, however, the victim is a Harvard professor and has the entire might of the Harvard Law School in his corner. Most people aren't so fortunate.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by lexapro 

The moment they found out he was the legal resident of the home and that he ordered them out they were required to immediately vacate. Another story of cops getting all pissy that they aren't "respected" and making up completely fake charges.

That's not how it went down.

The officer said he wanted to speak with Mr. Gates about the suspected break-in and the professor replied, "Why, because I'm a black man in America?" the report said.

That's some bullsh!t right there.

There was absolutely no need to accuse the officers of racism like that.
It's not the police's problem that this dumbass of professor acts like a burglar when coming home.

-t

[lexapro]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

That's not how it went down.



That's some bullsh!t right there.

There was absolutely no need to accuse the officers of racism like that.
It's not the police's problem that this dumbass of professor acts like a burglar when coming home.

-t

You don't get it, Turtle. The homeowner had not reported a crime and had ordered the police to vacate his property. Police do not have a legal right to trespass, no matter how shiny their badge or large their gun.

Of course, if you want to do away with that US Constitution then there is a process for that.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by lexapro 

You don't get it, Turtle. The homeowner had not reported a crime and had ordered the police to vacate his property. Police do not have a legal right to trespass, no matter how shiny their badge or large their gun.

Of course, if you want to do away with that US Constitution then there is a process for that.

Did they change the article after you read it, or did you just not read the latter half of it?

Originally Posted by Wall Street Journal (emphases mine)

After initially refusing, Mr. Gates provided the officer with Harvard identification and demanded to know his name, the report said. Sgt. Crowley said he told Mr. Gates he was leaving and would speak with him outside.

"As I descended the stairs to the sidewalk, Gates continued to yell at me, accusing me of racial bias and continued to tell me that I had not heard the last of him," he said in his report. With the officer and the professor on the porch, Mr. Gates yelled, "This is what happens to black men in America," according to a supplemental report by another officer at the scene.

Sgt. Crowley said he warned Mr. Gates he was becoming disorderly, then told him he was under arrest.

He saw the professor’s identification papers; he left the premises. That he didn’t make it any further than the porch seems, by my reading, to be more a result of the fact that prof. Gates was yelling after him and accusing him of racism.

[turtle777]

That's the sad part, there are people so completely blinded that they always only see one side.

-t

[lexapro]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Did they change the article after you read it, or did you just not read the latter half of it?


He saw the professor’s identification papers; he left the premises. That he didn’t make it any further than the porch seems, by my reading, to be more a result of the fact that prof. Gates was yelling after him and accusing him of racism.

Front porch is still his property. In fact the property line extends to the sidewalk. Are you saying that a black man in America has no right to order the white police off his property and make sure they leave? Are you trying to state that the white police have the right to arrest a black man in America for any reason, even when no crime has been committed and the black man in America is standing on his own property?

Police unreasonable demand complete and total respect, even when they are committing crimes (trespassing). The only people that should be brought up on charges are the white armed badged cops.

[lexapro]

Another poor use of a Tazer:

Man bursts into flames after Taser shock - CNN.com

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by lexapro 

Police unreasonable demand complete and total respect, even when they are committing crimes (trespassing). The only people that should be brought up on charges are the white armed badged cops.

Generalize much?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by lexapro 

Another poor use of a Tazer:

Man bursts into flames after Taser shock - CNN.com

Yes, let's all cry for the ****tard sniffing glue and dousing himself with gasoline, and his friend that decided to throw rocks at the officer as the officer was trying to save the guy's life. Stupid ****ing police, only there to abuse their power.

While the officer tried to put out the fire, a woman from inside the house threw rocks at him, Munnee said. The officer suffered both burns from the fire and cuts from the rocks.

[lexapro]

While the officer tried to put out the fire, a woman from inside the house threw rocks at him, Munnee said. The officer suffered both burns from the fire and cuts from the rocks.

Insult to injury.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by lexapro 

Insult to injury.

What?

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by lexapro 

Front porch is still his property. In fact the property line extends to the sidewalk. Are you saying that a black man in America has no right to order the white police off his property and make sure they leave? Are you trying to state that the white police have the right to arrest a black man in America for any reason, even when no crime has been committed and the black man in America is standing on his own property?

Uhh, no, of course not. The police officer was on his way off the premises, as far as I can tell.

Now, I don’t know the details of American law, but over here, yelling obscenities at a police officer is enough to warrant an arrest (though it will not always actually result in one). And once the officer in question has a viable reason (or probable cause, as American detective tv-shows seem so fond of constantly referring to) to detain or arrest an individual, the fact that the individual is on his own private property does not mean that he can just ask the police to leave and they can’t touch him no matter what he does.

The way I see it, the police here responded to a call about a break-in. They found someone in the house and stated they’d like to talk to them about the reported break-in. After some haggling, the person in the house satisfactorily identified himself as the owner of the house. The officer left the house, but was followed by the owner who was verbally attacking him and calling him a racist, at which point (I’m assuming) the officer has the right to caution him for ‘loud and tumultuous behaviour’ as the article states.

Are you seriously saying that the officer does not then have the right to arrest the owner? That he would have to leave the property, go down to the station and get a search warrant (or court order or whatever), come back, and only then be allowed to arrest the owner? What should he have done if it was a call for, say, domestic violence? If he’d entered the house and found the owner beating the crap out of his wife? The owner would just have had to ask the officer to leave and that would have been it, the officer would have no choice but to leave the guy to beating his wife? That sounds rather ridiculous to me.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by lexapro 

Front porch is still his property. In fact the property line extends to the sidewalk. Are you saying that a black man in America has no right to order the white police off his property and make sure they leave? Are you trying to state that the white police have the right to arrest a black man in America for any reason, even when no crime has been committed and the black man in America is standing on his own property?

Police unreasonable demand complete and total respect, even when they are committing crimes (trespassing). The only people that should be brought up on charges are the white armed badged cops.

I don't get it. What do you want, for cops to not respond to reports of suspected break-ins? According to the article, they arrived, asked the professor for some identification, and he immediately accuses the officers of racism simply because they wanted to make sure the man's house hadn't been broken into. Even as they left his property, he continued to yell at them, accusing them of being racist and only arriving at his house to question him because he's a black guy.

Sorry, but I have no pity for the man. He could have been cordial to the police officers, regardless of the color of their skin or the fact that they were cops. Instead, being like most turbo-liberal black people, he decided that there was no alternative to this being a case of The Evil White Man being racist and trying to bring down opposition and force on The Innocent Black Man.

What crime did the officers commit? Do you think it's logical to say that a police officer investigating a suspected break-in should stay on the sidewalk and try to figure out what's going on without setting foot on the property in question? According to the article, once the professor's identification was confirmed (this, of course, after he accused the officers of racism), the officers left the premises, with the professor continuing to hurl racist accusations at them all the way down to the sidewalk. How did the officers in question commit a crime here?

I hope his house does get burgled, and the cops don't respond to someone witnessing the break-in, for fear that they'll be accused of racism again. Apparently, that's preferred over the cops doing their job.

I find the hatred toward law enforcement that's being suggested by some people here to be pretty disgusting. Perhaps your tone will change after you find yourself in a situation where your personal safety and very life are protected by a police officer. Maybe then you'll realize that not all cops are assholes, and if it weren't for law enforcement, you'd be the one taking a bullet in the chest from a crazed man at a mall jewelry store - with no Kevlar to protect you.

[Chuckit]

Unfortunately, the fact that they arrested him just for telling them to get out of his house lends credence to his accusation. They should have just apologized for the misunderstanding and left. Was he being a jerk? Sure. But he didn't arrest them, which is more than I can say for the officers.

[andi*pandi]

charges have been dropped, and the press release sounds like both parties are contrite.

The Prof escalated the issue.

[lpkmckenna]

Wow, lots of clueless badge-kissers in this thread.

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

You, sir, are the epitamy of ignorant.

Originally Posted by iranfromthezoo 

Thanks for dogging my profession! With all due respect but most of you are not police officers and most of you guys sit at a desk for your job. If your a graphic designer don't you hate it when people tell you how to do stuff that they have no business or clue...You get pissed.

Listen I am not trying to cause a stink but to say that all cops are dogs and stupid is very disrespectful to people that do a good job everyday! I don't tell you how to do your job so why should you tell me how I should do mine?

I have the right to tell you how to do your job because you are a public servant and I am a member of the public. When my job includes the legal right to abuse my power and get away with it, you can tell me how to do my job.

For me to say "cops are dogs" was not an insult. A well-trained dog is loyal, obedient, fun, fetches the paper, plays well with children, protects the home and family, and is man's best friend.

A poorly-trained dog is a menace, biting without provocation and sh!tting all over the house. A dog must always behave and respect their master, or else they get put down.

But whether trained or not, dogs must be leashed. Their very nature as a potential threat requires it.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I find the hatred toward law enforcement that's being suggested by some people here to be pretty disgusting. Perhaps your tone will change after you find yourself in a situation where your personal safety and very life are protected by a police officer. Maybe then you'll realize that not all cops are assholes, and if it weren't for law enforcement, you'd be the one taking a bullet in the chest from a crazed man at a mall jewelry store - with no Kevlar to protect you.

I don't hate cops, I just expect bad cops to be fired and charged. Since apparently a Philly cop can harass, arrest, and attack a woman with his gun over a private vendetta involving his son, then perjure himself and ask his buddies to destroy the evidence, and then can just walk away without charges and keep his badge and gun - I'm a bit unhappy. Anytime you badge-kissers wanna join the first world, I'd be glad to have you.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

charges have been dropped, and the press release sounds like both parties are contrite.

The Prof escalated the issue.

I still think it's a bad idea to arrest someone for accusing you of treating him in an aggressive manner. It's like that old joke, "You always argue with me!" "Do not!"

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by iranfromthezoo 

Thanks for dogging my profession! With all due respect but most of you are not police officers and most of you guys sit at a desk for your job. If your a graphic designer don't you hate it when people tell you how to do stuff that they have no business or clue...You get pissed.

Listen I am not trying to cause a stink but to say that all cops are dogs and stupid is very disrespectful to people that do a good job everyday! I don't tell you how to do your job so why should you tell me how I should do mine? Yes these police officers in this particular incident went overboard, I agree. But with everyone saying that we are idiots and don't know our heads from our @$$ is ridiculous and downright degrading. And yes your tax dollars pay my salary but not even 1% of your taxes go to my salary! Yes our training is inadequate but because people don't want their taxes raised to help fund better officer professionalism, officer pay and training there will be bad apples in every group. But please realize this is how I put food on my family's table. I am proud of both jobs I have and I do it because I love doing it. Yes I may make mistakes and yes I do come off as a butthole sometimes. I do not try to be disrespectful but sometimes it happens, I don't know if your a cool guy or if you have a gun and waiting on me to drop my guard so you can do something.

No I will never shake your hand on duty, not disrespecting you but I am not going to give anyone the opportunity to catch me off guard.
No I will not let you off with a warning if you ask because you just asked...why do that?
Yes I will let you go if you are friendly, crack a smile and treat me like I am a human and not scum of the earth.

I told parents of a 12 yr old girl that she was dead today because of a car accident...I watched the girl take her last breath! You know what, I didn't want to be at work today but I had to be so I hid behind bushes, did my report, cried a lot because this 12 yr old girl is dead and people called me to make the situation better and I couldn't! Yes I ran radar in the spot she died at and gave everyone speeding a ticket and told them to slow down because a girl was killed here today...but I was too late. I did everything I could and when I wanted a break from it all I come to a place like this that thinks we do nothing but eat donuts and catch speeders all day...It hurts to know that so many people hate me. I am going to get up tomorrow and do the same thing as today because this is my job and what I love to do. So please guys...lay off, give us a break. We aren't super human who don't have our insecurities, failures or problems. We are normal people doing a job that most people don't know what its like. It's tough on us and our families so please just give us a break sometimes and room to make mistakes.

There are people that care.

many of us. Please don't otherwise!

[subego]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

charges have been dropped, and the press release sounds like both parties are contrite.

The Prof escalated the issue.

The teacher doesn't seem very contrite here:

Gates Says He Is Outraged by Arrest at Cambridge Home

He claims the only thing he had a chance to do once he was outside was to ask the other cops to identify the cop who had come inside. Then he says they arrested him.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Wow, lots of clueless badge-kissers in this thread.

Lots of ignorant ass hats too.

I have the right to tell you how to do your job because you are a public servant and I am a member of the public. When my job includes the legal right to abuse my power and get away with it, you can tell me how to do my job.

I also enjoy the smell of my own farts.

For me to say "cops are dogs" was not an insult. A well-trained dog is loyal, obedient, fun, fetches the paper, plays well with children, protects the home and family, and is man's best friend.

Ignorant, naive, troll, ....I'm not sure. Eitherway I fear for those around you.

A poorly-trained dog is a menace, biting without provocation and sh!tting all over the house. A dog must always behave and respect their master, or else they get put down.

I expect you to obey your master as well. When a cop tells you to sit, you best do it.

But whether trained or not, dogs must be leashed. Their very nature as a potential threat requires it.

Lets start the leashing at home and put a muzzle on you. You are beyond inflammatory and the exact type of smut this country needs to get rid of.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I don't hate cops, I just expect bad cops to be fired and charged.

There's alot of expectations from the government that by its very nature will go unfulfilled. Don't be so shamefully hurtful towards a group of people that on a normal and regular basis are honorable and do very noble things solely for the good of the people.

Since apparently a Philly cop can harass, arrest, and attack a woman with his gun over a private vendetta involving his son, then perjure himself and ask his buddies to destroy the evidence, and then can just walk away without charges and keep his badge and gun - I'm a bit unhappy. Anytime you badge-kissers wanna join the first world, I'd be glad to have you.

Taking one example and generalizing an entire nations of public servants is just plain ignorant.

That would be like me saying I saw a black person steal once...all black people need to be arrested and thrown in jail for stealing.

Your inflammatory remarks and severe overgeneralizations for a select few bad apples is extremely alarming. Try looking at the big picture and ask yourself how many of the cops who are nice make the news, or get killed in the LOD and make national headlines and stir internet discussion. How many? Very few.

Wake up. They aren't all bad.

[lexapro]

The prosecutor has dropped the charges

Charge against Harvard professor dropped - CNN.com

The reason is clear: no sane judge or nonracist jury would ever convict the professor for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

Remember folks, this is America. On your own property you can say whatever you want to whomever you want. As long as you don't threaten bodily harm or hurt anyone, whatever comes out of your mouth is A-OK. If there is a cop on your property, there is no ongoing crime and you don't want him there you have every right in the world to order him off. If he doesn't leave immediately then you need to get his information and submit that to the prosecutor for criminal charges.

I still would like to see Sgt Crowley relieved of his badge and gun. Wal-Mart security seems like a good place for him to "protect" the public.

[Chuckit]

Let's keep it civil, guys.

[andi*pandi]

Really, a cop should lose his job over this? The professor was abusive and using hate words. The PR statement seemed concilatory on both parts, however I'm unclear on the timing of the PR vs the washington post article, in which dollar signs are zinging all over the place.

I predict next time there is a break-in at the Prof's home and police are called, there will be other emergencies in the city to take care of.

My what a difference a page makes.

The mayor seems reasonable though:

http://www.wickedlocal.com/cambridge...erfect-society

[lexapro]

The mayor is Cambridge has usually been a pretty sane person. I should know, I live in Cambridge. I also am very affiliated with a certain university that the professor professes at. This is the talk of the town and it's bringing up literally hundreds of similar stories of the utter racism of the Cambridge city police.

Fortunately, the citizenry here very much controls the town. It'll be short order until the PD is quite reformed.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Because a tazer won't kill you when a gun might? A tazer allows someone to defend themselves or control someone without causing permanent damage (like death).

Wait... a... second...

People die from tasers ALL OF THE TIME.

Sometimes I think a gunshot to the leg of a crazy perp. is better than not knowing what kind of possibly life threatening heart, or nerve/brain condition they may have and killing them with a taser.

Amnesty International says 17 people have died in Canada since 2001 after stun-guns were used by police. Besides the death Thursday of Howard Hyde, 45, in Dartmouth, N.S., the case of Claudio Castagnetta, 32, is also being reviewed. Castagnetta died in Quebec on Sept. 20 two days after being hit with a Taser.

And that's just Canada.

[Chuckit]

Tasers are almost always harmless. IIRC, in less than half a percent of all cases do they cause any noticeable injury at all. Mortality rates from gunshots and beatings are much higher. If you don't have a heart or brain condition beforehand, you probably will when there's a bullet-hole hole in there.

[ghporter]

"ALL OF THE TIME" is a VERY strong, and very erroneous conclusion. A number of people have died in relation to having a Taser used on them. In almost every case it became clear very quickly that the individual had a KNOWN underlying condition, from a cardiac arrhythmia to poorly controlled epilepsy, and the Taser shock was only a contributing factor. The amount of POWER in a Taser jolt is very low. Voltage is very high, but current is minuscule. The voltage interferes with the neuromuscular junctions in skeletal muscles, causing a VERY strong cramp-like pain and loss of control of the affected muscles. Lacking the current needed, the shock DOES NOT PENETRATE EXTERIOR SKELETAL MUSCLES. In other words, the shock CANNOT impact a healthy heart.

[turtle777]

lexapro, sorry, but your full of crap.

I hope this professors house gets broken in, and police just stands watching, not doing anything.

This professor is a f***ing racist himself, and should STFU.

-t

[lpkmckenna]

There is an issue here in Canada that our police may be using defective tasers. It was in the news recently, I'll look it up...

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

Ignorant, naive, troll, ....I'm not sure. Eitherway I fear for those around you.

Why? I'm no danger to anyone around me.

I expect you to obey your master as well. When a cop tells you to sit, you best do it.

No cop is my master. Free man, free country, all that.

Lets start the leashing at home and put a muzzle on you. You are beyond inflammatory and the exact type of smut this country needs to get rid of.

I'm sorry you're afraid of free speech but not afraid of a system that lets bad cops go free. You have badly misplaced priorities.

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

There's alot of expectations from the government that by its very nature will go unfulfilled. Don't be so shamefully hurtful towards a group of people that on a normal and regular basis are honorable and do very noble things solely for the good of the people.

I am very thankful for all the good cops. I would love it if there were some consequences for bad cops.

Taking one example and generalizing an entire nations of public servants is just plain ignorant.

That would be like me saying I saw a black person steal once...all black people need to be arrested and thrown in jail for stealing.

I haven't made any generalized comments about cops. I never said all cops were bad. I didn't even say most cops are bad. I only said bad cops need to be charged and fired, and all cops need to be trained and leashed. That's not ignorant, that's common-fncking-sense.

Your inflammatory remarks and severe overgeneralizations for a select few bad apples is extremely alarming.

Yes, there are very few in the press, and the ones in the press are only there because of the video tape evidence. There are many more we never hear about because a cop's word is taken as gospel; that poor woman would have been railroaded into prison like so many others. But because of the "blue wall of silence," good cops look the other way when bad cops do bad things. The "blue wall" is more evil than "snitches get stitches," because cops ought to be honest.

Wake up. They aren't all bad.

I never said they were. Quit shoving words in my mouth.

You know, I'm a public servant too: I'm in the army. Soldiers are dogs, just like cops, just like judges, just like politicians. We need to be restrained, and need to held accountable to the law.

[lpkmckenna]

Gizmodo: One in ten Tasers is defective.
Taser testing reveals 500 may be defective.
One in 10 Tasers malfunctions in Alberta test.
Taser Death Cries Out for Public Inquiry.

Vancouver, BC: On December 12, the Crown announced that no charges would be laid against four RCMP officers in the Taser death of Robert Dziekanski. At the same time, the BC Criminal Justice Branch spokesperson disclosed that the Polish immigrant was Tasered 5 times and not twice as the RCMP initially reported.

The prosecutors believe that Mr. Dziekanski died at Vancouver airport last year because he was in alcohol withdrawal, had a history of heart disease and was scared of flying, yet he had a full and sealed bottle of Polish vodka in his carry-on luggage. There was no evidence of alcohol or drugs in his system from the coroner's report. If Mr. Dziekanski was the degenerate alcoholic the prosecution made him out to be, wouldn't the bottle have been empty, given the fact that he had been traveling for 30 hours?

In BC the Crown makes the decision to determine whether charges will be laid and in the Dziekanski case, the Crown relied solely on evidence from the RCMP. But now that the CBC reported allegedly defective Tasers (models before 2005 were shown to emit 50 percent more electrical current) the ongoing public inquiry may have an entirely different outcome.

So they lied about the number of times he was tased, but instead of pressing charges, the prosecution makes up a bizarre tale about alcohol? Jeez.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by lexapro 

The prosecutor has dropped the charges.

It's amazing how often cops arrest people, yet no charges are laid or charges need to be dropped. I'd love to see some stats on this. It's clear cops aren't properly trained on when an arrest is appropriate.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Gizmodo: One in ten Tasers is defective.
Taser testing reveals 500 may be defective.
One in 10 Tasers malfunctions in Alberta test.
Taser Death Cries Out for Public Inquiry.

So they lied about the number of times he was tased, but instead of pressing charges, the prosecution makes up a bizarre tale about alcohol? Jeez.

Alcohol withdrawal indicates that he was trying NOT to drink, or at least had not had a drink in quite a while. If he was in withdrawal, that also indicates that he'd done a huge amount of damage to both his liver and his nervous system.

There's a disconnect in terminology here too. How many times was he SHOT with the Taser versus how many times he was SHOCKED with each shot. Police Tasers can provide repeated shocks with a single shot. Maybe they didn't "lie" but had this particular terminology problem and the report did not take that into account. I find it hard to believe that all the way up to the Crown was rife with what you seem to cast as evil doers rather than generally just people trying to do a very difficult job.

[lexapro]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

lexapro, sorry, but your full of crap.

I hope this professors house gets broken in, and police just stands watching, not doing anything.

This professor is a f***ing racist himself, and should STFU.

-t

Thanks for commenting on the content, not the contributor

[lexapro]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

It's amazing how often cops arrest people, yet no charges are laid or charges need to be dropped. I'd love to see some stats on this. It's clear cops aren't properly trained on when an arrest is appropriate.

I used to be amazed by this, but not any longer.

What's more horrifying is that the cop who made this arrest is a Sargeant. This means they actually promoted him! HORRIFYING!!!!!

[hyteckit]

Cops tasered 3 kids, threatened one with sodomy.

Raw Story � Lawsuit: Cops tasered 3 kids, threatened one with sodomy

[ghporter]

Is this going to devolve into a "I can find a more grotesque police misbehavior story" contest? I hope not.

Since police officer is a job, and that this job is filled by human beings, it's inevitable that some people in that job will be bad people. Just as there are bad physicians, bad politicians and even bad librarians. That this job gives the incumbent a particularly large amount of immediate power means that those who fill the job should be very well screened, appropriately compensated, and CAREFULLY watched. Instead of goggling at "how awful this is!" it would be I think, more appropriate to begin discussing how to combat such malfeasance through appropriate channels. The FBI, state attorneys general, going to the newspapers and TV stations, etc. come to mind immediately. Just sharing horror stories really doesn't do anything more than get people who are already pretty pissed off even more so. Let's discuss what's wrong and how to fix it.

[ApertureValue]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Since police officer is a job, and that this job is filled by human beings, it's inevitable that some people in that job will be bad people. Just as there are bad physicians, bad politicians and even bad librarians.

This is not directed at you Glenn, but I think I said this quite a while back. It's this PRECISE fact that people are forgetting, and they're generalizing so much, this thread has become Bizarro Thread™. It no longer resembles the original post, and all information from the last few dozen posts has become irrelevant.

Please, end this thread for the sake of the kittens.