[Horts]

I recently posted a question asking which laptop i should consider buying a iBook G4 with maxed ram or a Dell(such as an Inspiron 5150 or 5100) and now I am wondering about the software comparisons of the two. My main question is would a person like me who has always used a windows program and is only average in computer literacy be able to efficiently use OSX if i decided on the iBook, and is it difficult to share information or do reports on OSX software when everybody else in my college classroom would probably be workin with Microsoft Office programs. I would also like to know anyone's input on why they think OSX is better. Much Thanks Greg

[MindFad]

Here are some great comparisons, fairly unbiased. Ya might learn a thing or two, too.

http://www.xvsxp.com/

[LightWaver-67]

You will have no problems (to my knowledge) whatsoever in sharing M$ Office documents. Both platforms, Mac OS X & Windows run their version of M$ Office and the documents are platform independant. Your spreadsheets, PwrPnt presentations and word.doc files will all work correctly moving back & forth between platforms. No worries there.

Will YOU be able to make the transition from a Windows OS to OS X...? Well, I don't know you at all... but I'll say this. I, personally, know 5 people that have gone from a Win/PC to a Mac running OS X and they have ALL become fanatical converts. Not only do they understand the new OS... they now PREFER it over the Windows environment. That is no guarantee that YOU will... just that I have witnessed seamless migration of other people.

Good luck in your purchase decision. I (we?) hope it works-out for you.

[Scarpa]

If it's just for college use you can get Office.X and will be able to work with other people's documents no problem. There won't be any problem picking up the way OS X works either. I would strongly recommend getting an iBook over a Dell, laptops are an area where Apple has an exceptional advantage.

[meem]

The only thing bad that I have seen happen when opening the same MS Word files between the two platforms in that formatting can definitely change mostly in the form of text reflow. This is usually because of font issues. Especially with fonts like Times where there are many different versions of it.

[Ilja]

The only problem I encounter with OfficeX are pictures: on the mac they are converted to a tiff-format, which most of the windows users are not able to read. So my pictures in my word-files on windows are gone... Guess there's a solution to this, never bothered to figure it out

[awaspaas]

Originally posted by Ilja:
The only problem I encounter with OfficeX are pictures: on the mac they are converted to a tiff-format, which most of the windows users are not able to read. So my pictures in my word-files on windows are gone... Guess there's a solution to this, never bothered to figure it out

Many solutions, in fact on Microsoft's Mactopia website, they have tips on avoiding and remedying problems like that. It's not an issue if you do it right.

[msuper69]

Here's a perfect example of an advantage of OS X over XP:

In XP if you want to disable the display of images in HTML email, you have to manually edit the registry. And this method is all or nothing. You can't view images for individual emails on a case by case basis.

In OS X, using Mail, you can set a preference to disable the display of images in HTML email. But you can tell Mail to display the images for a particular email if you want. This takes care of false positives with Mail's junk mail filter.

You may already know why it's a good idea to disable the display of images in HTML email but just in case you don't it is to prevent spammers from validating your email address as the fetching of the images from their server tells them your address is good. Sorry if you already knew this.

Just one small but not insignificant advantage, IMO.

[JBoss303]

Originally posted by Horts:
I recently posted a question asking which laptop i should consider buying a iBook G4 with maxed ram or a Dell(such as an Inspiron 5150 or 5100) and now I am wondering about the software comparisons of the two. My main question is would a person like me who has always used a windows program and is only average in computer literacy be able to efficiently use OSX if i decided on the iBook, and is it difficult to share information or do reports on OSX software when everybody else in my college classroom would probably be workin with Microsoft Office programs. I would also like to know anyone's input on why they think OSX is better. Much Thanks Greg

Hello there,

I'm a recent switcher myself. I have the only Mac in my workplace and have to access Windows servers and work with Office documents all the time. So far the only problem I have encountered is a 32 character filename length restriction on Office X (this is a limitation of an old Mac API that Office uses). But this is not a serious issue.

If you need to use 3rd party Excel / word addons then you might have problems since they may support only Windows version of Office.

Also Entourage does not work well with Exchange servers. There is only IMAP support. But you get the job done.

I have worked and shared documents with following applications and file formats and they work just fine:

- Word, Excel, Powerpoint
- PDF, ps
- JPEG, GIF
- zip
- PGP
- MP3
- DivX, XVid, QT

And a few thigs that work well in Mac OS:

- Messenger
- Lotus Notes
- Remote Desktop
- VPN connections to Windows VPN servers
- Adobe Photoshop
- Sharing files with Windows servers

It didn't take me long time to get accustomed to Mac OS. The keyboard is different (there is the apple key). And then there is the fact that applications do not close when you hit the red x button.

So, why is Mac OS better than XP? In my opinion:

- Installing applications is easier, many times you can just drag and drop applications to your hard drive (like office)

- There are less viruses / spyware / security exploits. This means using Mac OS is more worry free.

- The user interface is more polished and appealing. (Subjective)

- Controlling OS features is so much easier in Mac OS than in Windows. The system preferences applications is simple to use and covers all the important things. I can't say the same from Win XP control panel (and administrative tools, and computer management and management console etc.)

The question in my mind is more: why should you by a Windows laptop if you can have a Macintosh?

My only answer so far is games or Windows application development.

Best regards,

Jari

[mitchell_pgh]

Much of what you will hear is VERY subjective when dealing with "why you should buy a Mac". A majority of things will work identically on both platforms.

That being said, I would also consider the nice set of applications that come bundled with the mac. iPhoto, iTunes, iCal, iChat, etc. Great college student level things. Also, if you are a computer nerd, having a Unix box sitting in front of you might be fun.

For the designer, it's a must. Good luck finding a job with zero Mac experience. Much of the time, they will overlook a limited design history, but no Mac experience...

If it's something that requires a Windows system, buy a Windows system (Engineer). You can't get around having something like AudoCAD. You could spend hours converting files, but don't do it.

If you have a major that doesn't really require a computer or you are writing papers most of the time, the iBook will do you well.

If you must give presentations from time to time, Keynote is simply amazing. Every time I have a presentation to give at work, I'm constantly told "WOW, I didn't know you could do that in PowerPoint!" I just smile. If I have a surprise presentation and only have 1/2 hour to build a demo, I fire up Keynote and steal the show.

It can also suck... because Keynote can take a bad idea and make it look good.

I'm an inch away from picking up a 12" iBook for $999 (education price, with combo drive.

[neilw]

I have had modest experience configuring XP machines, and I find that the OSX control panel is *much* better organized and easy to navigate.

Setting up networking is much easier on OSX. I have always found the hierarchy of hardware and drivers and protocols in the Windows networking control panel to be a confusing mishmash. By comparison, it's extremely well organized under OSX, and easy to find stuff.

As an example, I tried to find my girfriend's wireless MAC address so I could add it to my router configuration. It was nowhere to be found in the network control panel, and I really looked hard for quite a while. It eventually turned up in one of the *two* (WTF?) wireless system tray items. On my Mac, by comparison, you pull up Network preferences, select the Airport interface, Configure, and bam there is everything you need to know and configure for Airport. (I eventually realized that the Mac address was also on a sticker on the underside of her machine, but that's another story. )

On the other hand, I have found a few problems living in a Windows world. I have had no luck trying to access the printers on the network at work, despite hours of experimentation and help from the IT people, who know nothing about Macs but tried their darnedest. Need to try it again with Panther. Oh, and there are some types of images and/or diagrams that PC users can embed into their Word documents that can absolutely bring Word X to its knees. I am not in general enthusiastic about Office X (to say the least; actually I despise it for the most part), but it gets the job done, usually.

Bottom line: before OSX, I was wavering in my commitment to the Mac. Now I have no doubts. For all its warts (and it has plenty), OSX is a beautiful, stable, powerful OS, and the fact that it offers a full UNIX environment right below the surface just seals the deal.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by neilw:
Bottom line: before OSX, I was wavering in my commitment to the Mac. Now I have no doubts. For all its warts (and it has plenty), OSX is a beautiful, stable, powerful OS, and the fact that it offers a full UNIX environment right below the surface just seals the deal.

When the whole thing Copland failure came out and Apple was scrambling to choose NeXT vs. BeOS, I took a long hard look at Windows (NT 4 and 95 at the time).

OS 8/9 was going nowhere fast (frequent system wide crashes, extension juggling, faltering software support, etc. etc. etc.) and really didn't have a future.

I stuck with OS 9 for a while because a loved Apple, nothing more. If something didn't happen (AND SOON) I was going to make the jump to Windows NT 5... Well, NT 5 kept being delayed, and I stuck with my Mac.

Then the iMac came out... it was impressive. Then the first incarnations of OS X came out... also rather impressive. When the beta came out, I knew there were holes in the OS, and it would be a long road, but here we are, four+ years later with what I consider a very mature OS.

Unfortunately, I still don't feel like they have nailed OS X. It's SERIOUSLY "almost there"... I just can't put my finger on it, there was just something about OS 9, Illustrator 8, Quark 4.1 and Photoshop 4/5 that clicked. I could design like a crazy man back then... I'm getting closer to that feeling now, but it's still off...

[ryaxnb]

http://www.xvsxp.com and the boards http://bbs.xvsxp.com/forums. That's why.

[madmacgames]

Originally posted by MindFad:
Here are some great comparisons, fairly unbiased. Ya might learn a thing or two, too.

http://www.xvsxp.com/

Good site... one area they forgot is how the OS handles power management, and more specifically sleeping. My Mac goes to sleep and wakes up better than any system I've ever seen. On my PCs with winXP Pro, it's more hit and miss: not very smooth and sometimes I find the system has frozen in the middle of "sleeping"... went into a "coma" I guess would be the technical term

[RayX]

Originally posted by msuper69:
Here's a perfect example of an advantage of OS X over XP:

In XP if you want to disable the display of images in HTML email, you have to manually edit the registry. And this method is all or nothing. You can't view images for individual emails on a case by case basis.

In OS X, using Mail, you can set a preference to disable the display of images in HTML email. But you can tell Mail to display the images for a particular email if you want. This takes care of false positives with Mail's junk mail filter.

You may already know why it's a good idea to disable the display of images in HTML email but just in case you don't it is to prevent spammers from validating your email address as the fetching of the images from their server tells them your address is good. Sorry if you already knew this.

Just one small but not insignificant advantage, IMO.

This has nothing to do with Windows XP itself. It depends on the e-mail client you are using.

Outlook 2003 behaves the same way as Mail regarding HTML images.

You should be more clear that 'Outlook Express' that is included with Windows XP requires the registry edit.

[msuper69]

Originally posted by RayX:
This has nothing to do with Windows XP itself. It depends on the e-mail client you are using.

Outlook 2003 behaves the same way as Mail regarding HTML images.

You should be more clear that 'Outlook Express' that is included with Windows XP requires the registry edit.

Outlook Express is the included email client in XP. Mail is the included email client in OS X.

OE requires hacking the registry.
Mail doesn't require any hacking.

My point is valid.

[ApeInTheShell]

Windows and Mac comparison:
note - there is no unbiased opinion as long as we're human.

- As noted previously there are different kinds of font formats for times roman. This can be annoying when your research papers are shorter in Appleworks and longer in MS Office XP.
You can visit for into on MS Office X:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac

Apple's Text edit application allows you to save in .doc format with limited options.

- Windows releases service packs that fix things and update security.
Mac OS X does a combination of fixes, security updates, and new features. Plus the operating system is moving forward every year instead of staying in one place. (some mac users don't like this)

- I'd have to say the graphical user interface and the ease of use is what makes me happy. My brother downloaded windowblinds and object dock for his pc because he likes the Mac OS X GUI. He admits it isn't the same though.

- Mac are more valuable and have longer life spans than a pc. In other words, will the pc laptop your thinking of buying run Windows Longhorn? Probably not. I thought my iMac was at the end of its rope but Apple has done a good job of supporting my hardware.

- Despite Microsoft's poor security, people continue to use Windows because they don't know there are alternatives. My dad always tells me that as long as his pc works he is sticking to Windows, later he'll be yellling at it me for an error in windows.
The difference is frustration.

- Some advice, take a drive down to the nearest Apple store or reseller. Try out the iBook and see if you like the way it works.

your buddy, Bonzi

[bastion]

There's a few fibs at the X vs XP site in the final score. They gave file navigation/management an equal score of 7. Personally, I think for X it would be about 4 or 5. I also think the Calculator deserves a score of 4, rather than 9. And, OS updates in X are much better than that of XP...

Oh well.

[jbhopper]

Originally posted by madmacgames:
Good site... one area they forgot is how the OS handles power management, and more specifically sleeping. My Mac goes to sleep and wakes up better than any system I've ever seen. On my PCs with winXP Pro, it's more hit and miss: not very smooth and sometimes I find the system has frozen in the middle of "sleeping"... went into a "coma" I guess would be the technical term

Very true. I was compressing a QT movie, and had to go somewhere, but didn't want the machine running unattended (i forget why) but I slept the machine in the middle of the compression and 8 hours later woke it up and it completed the compression with no trouble.

[Chinasaur]

X vs XP - Case Study.

This last Saturday, girlfriends cable went out. Mine did also. GF uses XP, I use X.

After cable came back up, she still couldn't connect whereas I had no problem. Something about the outage corrupted her XP install as the msg - "XP has just recovered frm a serious problem. Pls reboot" - msg kept appearing. Her onboard Intel NIC chip also ceased showing up in the Devices listing necessitating installing a new PCI NIC.

It took a Reset to a previous "safe" config from a week ago to fix the problem, which also meant restoring some programs installed since then, and resetting a boatload of preferences.

My OS X install just kept running.

How much is your time worth?

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by madmacgames:
Good site... one area they forgot is how the OS handles power management, and more specifically sleeping. My Mac goes to sleep and wakes up better than any system I've ever seen. On my PCs with winXP Pro, it's more hit and miss: not very smooth and sometimes I find the system has frozen in the middle of "sleeping"... went into a "coma" I guess would be the technical term

http://bbs.xvsxp.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=983&st=30 Power management. Hope they get to putting come stuff on the official site soon.

[alien]

Originally posted by neilw:
On the other hand, I have found a few problems living in a Windows world. I have had no luck trying to access the printers on the network at work, despite hours of experimentation and help from the IT people, who know nothing about Macs but tried their darnedest. Need to try it again with Panther.

Have you tried the procedure described here?

I followed those instructions, but I selected the original drivers, not those from gimp-print. (Panther and HP 4050).

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by bastion:
There's a few fibs at the X vs XP site in the final score. They gave file navigation/management an equal score of 7. Personally, I think for X it would be about 4 or 5. I also think the Calculator deserves a score of 4, rather than 9. And, OS updates in X are much better than that of XP...

Oh well.

WTH? Explain in depth why less weak views (X eliminates the need for Small Icons with 16x16 setting, List for the same reason, mostly, details = list, but List is superior, and Tiles and Thumbnails thanks to view options,) a better Details(XP)/List(X) view, IMHO, Column view, and a sidebar for folders is bad.
And WTH does the calc stink?

[stew]

Originally posted by ApeInTheShell:
- Mac are more valuable and have longer life spans than a pc.

Unless you have a recent G3 iBook, which may get the logic board failure after 12-18 months...

[neilw]

Originally posted by alien:
Have you tried the procedure described here?

I followed those instructions, but I selected the original drivers, not those from gimp-print. (Panther and HP 4050).

No, I hadn't found that one. I'll give it a try. Do you know if things are any different under Panther? I haven't tried this since I upgraded...

[alien]

Originally posted by neilw:
No, I hadn't found that one. I'll give it a try. Do you know if things are any different under Panther? I haven't tried this since I upgraded...

If you have Panther, and assuming the Windows File Sharing is turned on, you should just begin at step 4.1. It should basically go like this:
- Hold the option key while selecting Add printer. (You'll get advanced options.)
- Select Windows Printer via Samba.
- Give the printer a name
- I wrote the URL like smb://username:[email protected]/printername
- Select the driver manufacturer and the printer model from the list.

Open Terminal, and type this command:
tail �f �n40 /var/log/cups/error_log

Then try to print a job, there should be some messages coming in the terminal. There are other variants of the URL that don't include password, and that specify workgroup and server. I don't know much about those things, I think it can depend on the Windows box. This worked for me.

[m3macopc]

Greg, Greg, Greg,
Besides the overrated Mac OS 10.3 and Windows XP, the real cream of the crop in Linux. Just like litmus, you should test it out...


m3

[clarkgoble]

Mac users can "test out" Linux without actually leaving their Mac. Go install Fink and then install KDE and Gnome. You'll have pretty much the same environment Linux folks do. (I customize mine with an Aqua-like theme)

Believe me, after you've done this you'll quickly see that Linux isn't quite ready for prime time on the desktop.

The one big place where I think XP and OSX differ is in basic philosophy. XP is very task oriented with "wizards" that walk you through doing things. While XP is better than earlier versions, Microsoft still has a basic mind set of fitting you into a particular way of doing things. OSX, while not as good as earlier versions in this, doesn't. By and large with OSX you get a unified way of doing things and then you can do whatever you want your way.

Linux, in my opinion, mimicks XP quite often, but doesn't have enough wizards and many things are a royal hassle to configure right. Further you'll frequently run into "not quite ready for prime time" issues with Linux.

Outside of that basic philosophical issue, the big difference is in file managers. This is OSX' weakest element, but by and large the Panther Finder is quite good. It differs from the tree structure somewhat. And it gets *very* slow in network failures and when you have a folder with hundreds of files and no subdirectories. But overall I prefer the OSX Finder to either Windows Explorer and definitely to Nautilus or Konquerer. But that is probably a subjective view.

[truaxbiology]

Originally posted by neilw:
No, I hadn't found that one. I'll give it a try. Do you know if things are any different under Panther? I haven't tried this since I upgraded...

My 12" powerbook is the lone mac on a windows network. I'm running Pather, but even with Jaguar, I was, and am, able to print to a printer that is shared off a Win98 parallel port! By the way, I'm new to the Mac OS so if I can figure it out, anyone should be able to

[camion]

I'm a long time Mac user and a long time Windows and Mac support person. I've gotten really tired of the periodic panics on the Windows side caused by viruses and worms. Here's an article from that great computer magazine Wall Street Journal encouraging the purchase of a Mac for just that reason.

The author, Walter Mossberg, has several times in the past sounded the death knell for Apple, but he's changed his opinion in the past few years.

[Gee4orce]

Originally posted by Chinasaur:

How much is your time worth?

This is the key question that is often overlooked. Everyone, everyone I know who has a PC has lost at least one whole weekend trying to fix the damned thing - often multiple weekends. My boss once spent the majority of his Christmas hols trying to fix his damned PC !

I've run Macs for nearly 10 years, and in all that time the longest I've had to spend to fix a problem was about 2 hours, and that was after doing something stupid.

If you are time poor and cash rich (or at least moderately well off) - get a Mac.

If you are time rich and cash poor then by all means get a PC. However, I would suggest you should get a life first.