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pcd2k · Apr 6, 2006, 02:56 AM

I'm in the process of rooting around the net to find a suitable video upgrade card for the G4 (January 2002). I've spent too many hours reading about the issues at Apple Dicussions, largely attempting to find something better than the 32 meg VRAM thats iin the mac - same old "don't have many bucks to play with" dilemna.

So in reality are one of these my only options

http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgr...pgrades:brick:

Chito · Apr 6, 2006, 07:59 AM

Those are your "best" options. If you have the cash go for the Radeon 9800, it's a big upgrade from the 9600. If you don't have the cash get the 9600 because it'll be a big upgrade from what you have. Be careful if you use eBay...several cards there are flashed PC cards and may cause some issues.

kavka99 · Apr 6, 2006, 09:36 AM

I bought an ATI Technologies Radeon 9000 PRO MAC Edition 64MB second hand from the ehmac
classifieds for $80. not too long ago, I put it in my upgraded 1.0 ghz Sawtooth G4 and it works great.

Have a look around some of the classifieds on some of the message boards, You might get lucky as well.
But beware of scammers.

D

Stecchino · Apr 6, 2006, 10:05 AM

Perfect topic for me as well...

I am looking for the cheapest solution to get my Dad's Quicksilver to support dual monitors (for Father's day). I've heard that you can install a 2nd video card like an inexpensive RADEON 7000 to power the second display? Can anyone confirm or deny this idea?

BigBadBiologist · Apr 6, 2006, 10:10 AM

I just bought a PC 9800 pro and flashed it with the strangedogs' 9800_130s ROM file and the thing works great in my Sawtooth. I only paid $60 shipped for the card too. If you look around AT and hardforums, you should be about to finr 9800 pros in that price range.

BigBadBiologist · Apr 6, 2006, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Stecchino

Perfect topic for me as well...

I am looking for the cheapest solution to get my Dad's Quicksilver to support dual monitors (for Father's day). I've heard that you can install a 2nd video card like an inexpensive RADEON 7000 to power the second display? Can anyone confirm or deny this idea?

Well, you could get a PCI 7000 to go along with the original video card or you could get a dual display 7000 or 7500 for the AGP slot. They are both about the same price at this point.

Stecchino · Apr 6, 2006, 02:23 PM

Interesting thought. BigBadBiologist, have you or someone you know personally used 2 video cards simultaneously on a PowerMac G4? I'd just like to avoid the hassle of trying something new based on unreliable info. Thanks.

BigBadBiologist · Apr 6, 2006, 03:28 PM

Yeah, people do it all the time. Personally, I've used a Rage Pro PCI with a Radeon 7000 AGP and it was fine. Also, we had a PCI 7000 with an AGP 7000 in my boss's system and it was fine. (Both systems were Sawtooth G4s)

Look around the strangedogs site for info on flashing PC cards. There is a ton. You just have to use the search funtion if you're looking for a specific card, especially if it is older.
http://strangedogs.proboards40.com/index.cgi?

Stecchino · Apr 6, 2006, 03:30 PM

Thanks.

Stephen Hanasew · Apr 6, 2006, 04:16 PM

I've also done this. I used 2 stock cards in my G4 Dual 450 along with my G3 B&W. Granted they were the ATI 16 Meg cards but dual cards should work for you no problem. You can get them cheap on E-Bay. I've seen for as little as $54.- http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Mac-ATI-Rade...QQcmdZViewItem
Infact, I just bought one of these myself. Good Luck!!

kavka99 · Apr 6, 2006, 04:50 PM

If you are going to go as low as 16 mb Video cards then try to find a cheap Sonnet Sonata PCI card,
I have one as a second video card in my Sawtooth and it supports spanning over 2 monitors.
Also if you have an old Mac monitor lying around then you can hook it up to this card without an adapter.

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/sonata_sd.html

D

Stecchino · Apr 6, 2006, 05:16 PM

I just picked up on eBay a new RADEON 7000 for Mac (32 MB) with a single VGA input for $29.70 shipped. If actual video performance in not the top priority but rather funtionality (support for 2nd screen), as it is in my case, then this seems to be the cheapest route to go.

I'll try to remember to post my results. Although Father's day is 2 months away, my dad might get an early present.

Stecchino · Apr 6, 2006, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by BigBadBiologist

Look around the strangedogs site for info on flashing PC cards. There is a ton. You just have to use the search funtion if you're looking for a specific card, especially if it is older.
http://strangedogs.proboards40.com/index.cgi?

Thanks for the link. That's a great site for that sort of stuff. If I had a computer with an upgradeable video card (not my iMac), I could buy cheaper PC cards and flash em for the Mac? Sweet deal.

WizOSX · Apr 9, 2006, 08:31 AM

The whole Quicksilver/AGP video card upgrade issue is a real mess. I have an 867 SP which I really love. I've tried different options to upgrade the video. Obviously, people have had good luck with the 9800 cards but they are expensive and add noise to an already noisy machine. 9600's are very iffy. Most people who have tried the PC/Mac 9600 card in Quicksilvers have found that they don't work (just go to the Apple store, find that card and then read the feedback from buyers). I really wish there was a good, inexpensive (core image compatible and quiet) solution.

BigBadBiologist · Apr 9, 2006, 11:09 AM

I'm not sure about a quicksilver, but I can't hear the 9800pro in my sawtooth system. My main fan blows so much, the 9800pro is inaudible (maybe an XT would be louder). Plus, for the prices of 9800 cards these days, I think it is the best option for these macs (at least until the info on flashing 6600/6800 cards becomes publicly available). If all you want is core image, the fx5200 is a nice cheap option that seems to have good compatibility and there are a lot of fanless versions out there.

I think a lot of the problems with video cards in these systems is the power delivery to the AGP slot. From what I've read around various forums, it seems like cards that require extra power headers work better. It seems like the AGP slot just can't supply enough juice to some of the cards (like the 9600). I even was having issues in my Sawtooh with a 7000 that seemed to be fixed when I went to the 9800.

WizOSX · Apr 9, 2006, 12:08 PM

Originally posted byBigBadBiologist
From what I've read around various forums, it seems like cards that require extra power headers work better. It seems like the AGP slot just can't supply enough juice to some of the cards (like the 9600).

Interesting. I haven't read that explanation before. Thanks.

BTW, for some reason [quote] doesn't seem to work right for me all of a sudden. Whenever I use it, "The message you have entered is too short" keeps coming up. Any thoughts?

pcd2k · Apr 9, 2006, 11:45 PM

Thank you all for your feedback.
I was interested to hear about "flashing" pc cards. So I'm wondering if this is a very specialised thing to do or difficult thing to do. I wonder if this a popular and easy thing to do ?
It might be worth looking into this - Is it ?

I'm not a gamer I have done and would more so like to get back to video editing etc and therefore would like to get an idea if there may be a pc card preferably 4x AGP that could cope with the video compositing wares like Motion.

akinola · Apr 10, 2006, 12:11 PM

Flashing PC video cards is actually pretty simple. You get the rom file from a site like strangedogs, put the video card in a PC with a compatable AGP slot and then flash the rom just like you'd do if you're doing a firmware update on a PCI card or just like you'd do a ROM update that came directly from ATI. Then pull the card out of the PC and drop it into your Mac. The downside is future updates to ATI's support might not be compatable with the old ROM, so you'd have to pull it out, find an updated ROM, and do it again. Plus I've heard ATI deliberately made the ROM smaller for it's PC version so the hackers had to take the MAC ROM and make it smaller to get it to fit the smaller memory on the PC card.

http://forums.macnn.com/images/smilies/bang.gif. This stuff just makes me so ANGRY. ATI loves screwing mac users with their inflated prices. $80 for 9800 PC version / $250 for 9800 MAC version

kavka99 · Apr 10, 2006, 03:56 PM

I have a flashed ATI Radeon 64 mb PCI video card in my Beige G3,
It works great in OS9.2.2, But in OS X it has sleep issues, It won't wake from sleep.
Which doesn't matter because I use the Beige G3 just for OS 9 games anyways.

D

macintologist · Apr 11, 2006, 12:13 AM

Save your money instead for an Intel Powermac later this year

pcd2k · Apr 12, 2006, 08:05 AM

yes I'm very inclined to agree an intel mini sounds applicable to American ears ah ?
I'd really like to think icould especially in the light of the upcoming def leppard and virtualization outcomes...aw shucks think I'll just go get a cheapy I primarily need dual monitors, now.

Hey. Whats the maximum number of monitors I could run out of my Quicksilver ?

BigBadBiologist · Apr 12, 2006, 08:59 AM

It's really a function of OSX more than your Quicksilver (considering with 3 PCI slots and 1AGP slot, you have the potential for 8 monitors). I know OSX supports at least 3 monitors. I have no idea what the max number is and I'd like to know myself.

BigBadBiologist · Apr 13, 2006, 09:20 PM

Looks like my theory about AGP power causing upgrade issues is/may be wrong:
http://strangedogs.proboards40.com/i...ead=1144904455

Oh well!

gangster · Apr 14, 2006, 06:48 PM

heres how i upgraded my g4 dp 800 video from a gf3:

http://strangedogs.proboards40.com/i...6704963&page=1

i bought a pc ati 9700 pro 128mb cheap and had it midified, it has worked great. this card wouldnt normally work in a g4 but it does now!

mountainash · Apr 16, 2006, 07:04 PM

The cheapest solution to this problem that I have found, is to get a 9600 family card from a Power Mac G5, and then carry out a very simple tape mod. You tape over two 'pins' on the edge connector, and you can use the card as normal.

I have done this mod with several 9600 cards from Power Mac G5s, to put into Digital Audios/Quicksilvers, and I have never had a problem. The cards are nearly always under 70USD, and sometimes under 50USD.

The cards have either two DVI ports, or an ADC and DVI. Because of differences between ADC on G4s and G5s, you will need to do another mod to get ADC working, or you can use an adaptor to convert the (broken) ADC to DVI. The adaptors are less than 30USD.

If this idea doesn't appeal, then you can get premodded cards from OWC.

WizOSX · Apr 16, 2006, 08:00 PM

….....................

Originally Posted by ShazamItsDavish2

The cheapest solution to this problem that I have found, is to get a 9600 family card from a Power Mac G5, and then carry out a very simple tape mod. You tape over two 'pins' on the edge connector, and you can use the card as normal.

I have done this mod with several 9600 cards from Power Mac G5s, to put into Digital Audios/Quicksilvers, and I have never had a problem..

If you had luck with the G5 9600 mod in a Quicksilver then you are in the minority. I tried the same thing with no luck and this has been true for many Quicksilver owners. I would recommend it to Digital Audio and MDD owners but not to Quicksilver owners unless they have spare cash to take a big risk with. Strangedogs has many posts to this effect.

Gee4orce · Apr 18, 2006, 10:25 AM

I want to upgrade my G5 so that is will be able to run Aperture (at the moment it has a GeForce FX 5200 AGP). In easy to understand words of less than 1 sylable

can someone explain what the best option is ? Can I use a non-name generic card with the, for example, 9600 chipset ? Or does it have to be ATI branded ?

BigBadBiologist · Apr 18, 2006, 01:33 PM

No, you can NOT just put any video card into a Mac and expect it to work. (most of those words are less than 1 syllable)

The ROM (aka firmware) on Mac video cards is different from PC video cards, so generic PC video cards will not work in a Mac.

Gee4orce · Apr 19, 2006, 04:35 AM

Thanks for the advice - that's what I thought.

So, what's a good PCI-Express video card for a G5 (I might as well keep the AGP one I have, if possible)

BigBadBiologist · Apr 19, 2006, 08:45 AM

If you have an AGP video card now, you can't put a PCI-express video card in your system since you don't have PCI-express slots. The other slots you have are PCI-X which is different. To the best of my knowledge nobody really made PCI-X video cards. There are lots of regular PCI video cards, but they will be slower than what you are currently using.

Gee4orce · Apr 20, 2006, 04:23 AM

Thanks again ! I realised my mistake after doing a bit more research.

Kifwalu · Jun 7, 2006, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by BigBadBiologist

Looks like my theory about AGP power causing upgrade issues is/may be wrong:
http://strangedogs.proboards40.com/i...ead=1144904455

Oh well!

Actually, you are both right AND wrong. You were on the right track though. ATI's 9600s have lots of problems with most older G4s and it is about the AGP slot, but not a power issue. In fact, ATI only recommends it to work in an MDD or later or G5 now, but if you buy one and send it back to ATI, they will modify it to work perfectly in a QS or DA for free (within 3 days too!). At least they did mine.

Interestingly, Apple's G5 Radeon 9600s do not seem to suffer any of these problems after being modified to work in a G4 (in many cases, just taping 2 pins). I've tried several Quicksilvers & Digital Audios with no problems at all. That's what made me decide to RMA my ATI card in the first place and now it also works fine in both QS & DA macs.

The strangedogs.com moderators (all ebay sellers) evidently don't sell 9600s so they trash them 24/7 with FUD. That's pretty much what they do with anything they don't sell over there at strangedogs .

So, 9600 is definitely the simplest core image video card modification you could possibly attempt on your own with little risk and lots of reward for very little money in a 4X AGP Powermac G4.

Just my 2¢

james3 · Jun 11, 2006, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Vyron X

Flashing PC video cards is actually pretty simple. You get the rom file from a site like strangedogs, put the video card in a PC with a compatable AGP slot and then flash the rom just like you'd do if you're doing a firmware update on a PCI card or just like you'd do a ROM update that came directly from ATI. Then pull the card out of the PC and drop it into your Mac. The downside is future updates to ATI's support might not be compatable with the old ROM, so you'd have to pull it out, find an updated ROM, and do it again. Plus I've heard ATI deliberately made the ROM smaller for it's PC version so the hackers had to take the MAC ROM and make it smaller to get it to fit the smaller memory on the PC card.

http://forums.macnn.com/images/smilies/bang.gif. This stuff just makes me so ANGRY. ATI loves screwing mac users with their inflated prices. $80 for 9800 PC version / $250 for 9800 MAC version

You don't NEED a PC, you can use a mac with a second PCI slot vid card, or two macs and a network cable through VNC.

Honestly flashing a card is so damn simple it astounds me that people would pay that much more for the Mac versions. It's the same damn card people, they are charging you $200 for 68KB of rom code