[Earth Mk. II]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
Grr... but I gota wonder since this orignally was supposed to allude largely to biblical stuff... but doesn't seem to any more...

Actually, the allusions in The Matrix (not Reloaded) were closer to Gnosticism than Christianity. (there is no proper allegory to either - or anything for that matter)

The ones who were disconnected from the Matrix were freed through no actions of their own, and even if they didn't know what the fvck was going on, they were still saved.

The idea that a certain special "elite" group of society had some special secret knowledge (that the matrix existed and how to manipulate it to some extent) is a belief very close to Gnosticism and very far from Christianity (anyone can be saved through their own choice and merit).

Also, Gnosticism is a dualist theology - there is a "good" deity and and "bad" deity. the "bad" deity isn't necessarily evil - but of a lesser divinity than the "good" deity. In this since the Agents could be seen to be the "bad"/inferior deities and Neo/Morpheus/The Oracle the "good"/superior and caring divinities who selectively decide who is to be saved with little to no merit on the part of the people caught in the middle.

In all, the Matrix only superficially draws images from any religious tradition - but reading into things leads me to uncover more Gnostic than Christian imagery.

Also, in Reloaded and the origional Matrix movie there was no philosophy that someone who's taken classical and modern philosophy survey classes would not have already been exposed to (and perhaps a political theory class or two for some more in-depth discussion). This is pop-philosophy, and nothing more. It's not all that earth shattering, and not all that hard to grasp.

I really think at times the philosophy and plot in Reloaded existed merely to drive the action. I wish it was the other way around, and I think I would have enjoyed that much more.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Neo is "the one"

Jesus anyone?

[Jansar]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Neo is "the one"

Jesus anyone?

Most definitely. Also jumble "neo" around to get "one."

[starman]

Thoughts:

If the Matrix NEEDS Neo, why try to kill him? That makes no sense.

If Zion, or anything else is indeed a "Matrix within a Matrix", why is everyone having such a hard time getting into Zion? chmod 777. Done.

What did the "Matrix RELOADED" title mean? I assumed that they would have destroyed the Matrix but it somehow rebooted/reloaded itself. Not so.

I enjoyed it, but I think that every speech, every fight scene, every action sequence, hence the entire movie was about 20% too long. If I saw ANOTHER slo-mo sequence I would have almost walked out. I think that the movie was a product of its own success, leading to its demise (ooh, the irony about how the first Matrix was like that). I hope that the third film fills in the gaps.

I hope the Matrix-in-a-Matrix thing is done right IF that's the answer. I expect to see Keanu Reeves waking up next to Suzanne Plechette at the end of the next movie.

Mike

[Sosa]

A lot of interesting comments here, learned a few things (Neo = One). I do believe that we are dealing with a matrix within the matrix, in which case I suppose there could be other matrixes and its impossible to know what's real. Unless Neo can now "feel" all versions of the Matrix. If this movie has an answer, it is equivalent to answering "What is the Universe?"

I enjoyed the movie not so much for the action and special effects but for the symbolism and philosophical aspects. As some have pointed out, the Matrix touches on ancient philosophical dilemna, mainly that we cannot be sure of any of the information we receive from our senses and that we could be dreaming "reality."

I was a little turned off by the Zion scenes, it may have been better to have kept Zion in our imaginations as a mystical heavenly city. But it's hard to criticize this movie because it is deep in ways I still may not understand.

Anyway I'm posting to let you guys know, in case you didn't, that http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/ has articles written by philosophers and others on different aspects of the questions raised in the Matrix. I'm off to read them now.

[designbc]

Originally posted by Sosa:
I was a little turned off by the Zion scenes, it may have been better to have kept Zion in our imaginations as a mystical heavenly city.

I don't know why people see Zion as heavenly. They are fighting and hiding. Their ships, food and costumes in the first movie can tell. They are barely surviving. That's why Zion is the way it is.

[imaxxedout69]

Originally posted by Mr_Frost:
EDIT : I can't believe nobody has mentioned the Ducati scene. What a rush !!!

Agreed, but at the same time it pissed me off.

How the F*CK does a caprice keep up with a Ducati?!?! Also, it was... annoying. Whenever it was first person, the engine was winding up into those HIGH RPMS, but the next view, which was instantaneous, it showed trinity driving from the side, and she wasn't 'on the gas' like she just was. It was lower, the engine wasn't turning very fast, and she was no longer shifting.

And the SUV keeping up with that ugly Caddy?! YEAH RIGHT! SUVS DO NOT CORNER, ACCELERATE, OR BRAKE WELL. What a load of crap.

It was cool, but the fact that almost every car was GM, and that the SUVs kept up with the caddy, and that the cops kept up with the ducati, make me have to give it a THUMBS DOWN. The part with morpheous at the end with teh sword was SWEEEEET though.

- Ca$h

[Demonhood]

saw it again yesterday.

not sure if anyone has cleared this up, but thought i may as well post it:

the clean white interface that the people in Zion use to open the gates for the Neb doesn't exist in the real world. it's a program they made using their own matrix software (with blue lettering instead of green). you can see people plugged in at their main bridge-area.

plus, i don't think they're going with the Matrix within a Matrix line.

[mixin visuals]

i heard matrix reloaded sucked.

[designbc]

Originally posted by mixin visuals:
i heard matrix reloaded sucked.

You heard the movie s*cks?
Well, I KNOW you S*CK. Nobody told me, I can tell reading your posts.


Hey, Demonhood: This guy is relentless!!! Lock him, but don't lock the thread

[Moderator]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
The real reason why Tank isn't there is that he was fired from the movie for his inappropriate behavior

I had heard he tried to use his leverage to hold out for more $$ and the studio said FU we'll do it without you.

Regardless..I didn't like that new guy...and his ultra chapped lips were distracting.

[mixin visuals]

Originally posted by designbc:
You heard the movie s*cks?
Well, I KNOW you S*CK. Nobody told me, I can tell reading your posts.


Hey, Demonhood: This guy is relentless!!! Lock him, but don't lock the thread

damn, i am not talking about the bible for god sake.

i guess negative feedback about the matrix is not allowed. calm down. its not a personal attack on anyone that likes it.

the other threads got locked and they said their are other threads already. so i posted in this one.

the topic does say "caution: spoilers ahead"

[PookJP]

I'll just put it into an outline form so this doesn't end up being 15 pages long.

Neo, the protagonist, had no arc at all. In other words, he's completely undeveloped, and the writers skipped golden opportunities to give him more depth (his God-like status in Zion, his relationship with Trinity, etc). As is, he's a God-like figure who can kick a lot of ass in an entertaining fashion, but he seemed devoid of the conflict or struggle that characterized him in the first installment.

The story was designed as a bridge, not an encapsulated work. There was no resolution in this, which cannot be excused by it's being the second installment in the trilogy. Resolution does not mean solving all the problems, but it does mean that certain issues were presented that were rectified. That's the basis of any story, and this didn't even give anything that basic.

I didn't buy the chemistry between Neo and Trinity. I understand The Oracle prophisized their love, but that doesn't mean the writers can get lazy and not give any hint at why they're in love. Yeah, they were horny in Zion so they went to get it on, but a bit more depth would have been nice.

The pacing left much to be desired. The fight scenes were overlong and, particularly in the case of the scene in that mansion, felt like they were pandering to what the least intellectual of all Matrix fans wanted. There's not much suspense in seeing Neo fight 6 goons, so there's no need to waste 5 valuable minutes on a fight whose end is so predictable. I should add, however, the fight scenes on the freeway and between the hundreds of Agent Smiths were some of the most amazing things I've ever seen in a movie.

The Matrix's universe wasn't expanded enough to mainting a consistent level of interest. They introduced these rogue programs, but then didn't do much with them. Beyond those, there wasn't much new.

The importance of Zion wasn't stressed enough to make me genuinely care about the machine's approaching it. Yes, I understand it's the last human colony, but they did a poor job of bringing that humanity out. By wasting what seemed like an eternity on a (neat) rave scene, they were squandering time when they could have made me connect with the people living there. Instead, my impression of Zion is that it's filled with a bunch of sexually charged people who aren't too interested in their imposing demise. That's not a good thing to set up if the entire suspense of the movie rests on my caring about those people.

The writers knew much of the fanbase of the original Matrix enjoyed it for its relatively challenging premise. This was completely gone in this up until a glorious 5 minute scene where one man says more stuff more quickly than has ever been in done in a move. The Architect's scene made the movie for me, or at least saved it from my completely hating it, but the trouble with the execution is that it left me slightly confused. I followed everything he said, but he said so much so quickly, that even as I write this I've forgotten exactly what it was he said. That scene felt like the writers took all the intellectual stuff they were going to sprinkel elesewhere, put it into a compactor, and served up an �ber-dense cocktail.

Were we expected to care about that annoying kid in the beginning? Should we have cared about Morpheous' relationship with that other captain? Was the relationship between that new operator and his girlfriend intended to touch us in some way? All these peripheral relationships were tossed in without much interest in development. In addition to that, they limited the scope of the movie. The first movie had the most massive scope possible, global freedom of humanity, and it pulled it off. This one was far too focused on the individual relationships between underdeveloped people, which I find far less complelling given the premise of the movie.

There's a bunch of little other grips I could mention - they destroyed Morpheous' ship without a hint of nostalgia (I'd spell it if I could), they could have bothered explaining Agent Smith's new ability, they should have had the balls to kill a bunch of people as they did in the first despite complaints from parental advocacy groups, they should have at least mentioned that weird French guy again - but I'll stop here. What was meant to be brief kind of ballooned, didn't it?

I thought the action scenes were amazing and I loved seeing Neo in action. But the fact is, all the real reasons I loved The Matrix were gone here, replaced by crowd pleasing effects.

[keekeeree]

Originally posted by mixin visuals:
i heard matrix reloaded sucked.

Are you for real? Or someone's alterego just f*cking with us? That's gotta be it cause I can't imagine anyone thinking that post contributes anything to a discussion. There's five pages of real discussion on the movie here and you post that?

Go....see....the....movie!

[scottiB]

Anyone wonder what the computers/machines/whatever do other than manage the Matrix?

For being as enlightened and technologically proficient as they seem to be, I would think they would be doing things other than maintaining the Matrix--perhaps finding a way not to depend on humans for power, like leaving the planet.

Right now, they seem to be forever possessed, like a child that stares at his ant farm for eternity.

[Nicko]

Originally posted by scottiB:
Anyone wonder what the computers/machines/whatever do other than manage the Matrix?

For being as enlightened and technologically proficient as they seem to be, I would think they would be doing things other than maintaining the Matrix--perhaps finding a way not to depend on humans for power, like leaving the planet.

Right now, they seem to be forever possessed, like a child that stares at his ant farm for eternity.

I don't think they do much else than take care of their 'human crop'. In fact it seems that they are obsessed with humans for some reason (ie. Agent Smith in the first movie).... but there have also been hints that there is something else beyond the matrix. It doesn't make much sense at the moment

[I Bent My Wookiee]

Originally posted by starman:
Thoughts:

If the Matrix NEEDS Neo, why try to kill him? That makes no sense.

Because in the first movie was written as a self contained script, now they are trying to add to that story but messing things up that they set up in the first.

[sek929]

Originally posted by imaxxedout69:
Agreed, but at the same time it pissed me off.

How the F*CK does a caprice keep up with a Ducati?!?! Also, it was... annoying. Whenever it was first person, the engine was winding up into those HIGH RPMS, but the next view, which was instantaneous, it showed trinity driving from the side, and she wasn't 'on the gas' like she just was. It was lower, the engine wasn't turning very fast, and she was no longer shifting.

And the SUV keeping up with that ugly Caddy?! YEAH RIGHT! SUVS DO NOT CORNER, ACCELERATE, OR BRAKE WELL. What a load of crap.

It was cool, but the fact that almost every car was GM, and that the SUVs kept up with the caddy, and that the cops kept up with the ducati, make me have to give it a THUMBS DOWN. The part with morpheous at the end with teh sword was SWEEEEET though.

- Ca$h

That SUV has a 345 horsepower engine, and with all the traffic I don't think top speed was a factor so the big heavy Caprice could keep up with the Ducati.

That said I enjoyed the movie, except the Zion orgy scene, Morpheus' speech, long winded french dude, fight scenes just a tad too long, and Neo needs some crazy litghning bolt attack or some sh*t.

The twins rocked, maybe they shouldn't have turned into ghouls when they became invincible, but they were still a very neat idea. Also I like the route that they went with all the rogue programs and back doors, remenants of nerds past, hehe.

The entire highway scene was awesome up until Morpheus' edge-crazy battle with the agent, I mean c'mon, he can land on the semi everytime and its ok, but on the very edge everytime?

It was good Colonel Sanders showed up at the end to explain it all, I was getting a bit confused as to what was actually going on, but since it is kind of an Anime idea I guess it would be hard to follow perfectly.

I'll see it again, most likely buy it. The first one had a better story, but this one has far better fight scenes.

I'll give it a 3.5 star rating, which is better than the last two movies I saw combined...

[I Bent My Wookiee]

Originally posted by sek929:
It was good Colonel Sanders showed up at the end to explain it all,

Colonel Sanders

[InterfaceGuy]

Originally posted at DarkHorizons.com

The hour of video throughout the "Enter the Matrix" computer game which was written/directed by the Wachowskis and filmed concurrently with the two movies, contains major spoilers for "Revolutions" and some backstory for "Reloaded". 'TwelveStones' has gathered the key juicy info he could find during these video segments and reveals them here - be well aware though that all this includes MAJOR spoilers for Reloaded and Revolutions so don't go shooting the messenger ok. Lets begin:

"The Oracle (played by an actress named Mary Alice, due to Gloria Foster's death; I assume this means that Mary Alice will play the Oracle in Revolutions, as well) states that a "special child" who will "change the world" is the child of two programs similar to herself. If she means Neo, this would suggest that Neo is a program and thus that Zion is still part of the Matrix. The Oracle says the two programs betrayed her for their love by giving Merovingian (the French information-collector guy, played by Lambert Wilson) her termination key. The Oracle allowed this because she wanted the programs to have their special child.
A hobo with longish blond hair who also appears in the Revolutions trailer has a conversation with Niobe (Jada Pinket-Smith) in which he reveals that the Zion before this one "only lasted 72 hours". Niobe volunteered to be the second ship to enter the Matrix and contact the Nebuchadnezzar because her boyfriend, Command Lock revealed to her that he had arranged for her ship, the Logos, to be the only one not to participate in the defense of Zion, in order to protect her, and she was angry. At the end of the events of Reloaded, Niobi and Ghost's hovercraft (Logos) has crashed in an uncharted underground area and they do not know how they will be found and rescued."

[Mark Tungston]

Originally posted by InterfaceGuy:
Originally posted at DarkHorizons.com

The hour of video throughout the "Enter the Matrix" computer game which was written/directed by the Wachowskis and filmed concurrently with the two movies, contains major spoilers for "Revolutions" and some backstory for "Reloaded". 'TwelveStones' has gathered the key juicy info he could find during these video segments and reveals them here - be well aware though that all this includes MAJOR spoilers for Reloaded and Revolutions so don't go shooting the messenger ok.

NIIIIIICCCCEEEEE

that last part is true because i've seen the trailer from the game i believe...

also - maybe she ain't talking about Neo. maybe she's talking about the other oracle. or perhaps agent smith. who knows.

[imaxxedout69]

Originally posted by sek929:
That SUV has a 345 horsepower engine, and with all the traffic I don't think top speed was a factor so the big heavy Caprice could keep up with the Ducati.

Doesn't matter. The SUV weighs a LOT more than that caddy, and the caddy (if I'm not mistaken) isn't exactly underpowered. Add in the fact that the Caddy has a much lower CG, tires and suspension more suited to performance, there's no way the SUV would be able to keep up.

As for the Ducati vs caprice thing.... NO... ****ing... Way... In .... Hell...

Ducati= sport bike= insane power/weight ratio.... all trinity would have had to do was hit the gas and the caprice would have been a speck in her mirror.

- Ca$h

[ink]

Originally posted by imaxxedout69:
But all the anamolys look EXACTLY the same.

Also, you never answered my question: WHAT REASON do the machines ahve to allow Zion to exist? They don't need them. THey should completely annhilate Zion. Why even give Zion a chance?

I think the machines don't understand 'hope' yet, and how much is needed to make the system optimal. The problem is, they may have given the one too much leeway this time...?

[ink]

Originally posted by SomeToast:
Thank you for that, I was thinking the same thing. Also could explain why the "Smith-infected" human is also in a coma -- the connection between Smith and Neo.

Also, my wife noticed that the "human Smith" cut his hand up before shaking hands with Neo. He may have "infected" Neo in RL at this point, just as Neo infected him in the first movie by bouncing around inside. Just a thought.

[ink]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
I still don't get why the heck her name is Trinity!

Could she be The Mother of the Matrix?

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by imaxxedout69:
Doesn't matter. The SUV weighs a LOT more than that caddy, and the caddy (if I'm not mistaken) isn't exactly underpowered. Add in the fact that the Caddy has a much lower CG, tires and suspension more suited to performance, there's no way the SUV would be able to keep up.

As for the Ducati vs caprice thing.... NO... ****ing... Way... In .... Hell...

Ducati= sport bike= insane power/weight ratio.... all trinity would have had to do was hit the gas and the caprice would have been a speck in her mirror.

- Ca$h

'Course that part about the bike jumping off the truck with two people on it and landing ready to go is acceptable? Or the fact she never bothered to disconnect the tie down straps. Or the ... blah blah blah.., IT'S A FREAKIN' MOVIE!!!

They were GM cars for the same reason 99% of computers on TV are Apple computers. GM gave them to them. Gave them a ton of cars from what I understand. The caddy wasn't even completed and that is a one of a kind mock up made for the movie by GM.

Go to your local dealer and drive a Cadillac EXT. It is a VERY powerful, fast, and manuverable truck. It is not an insult, as most truck enthusiasts think, that trucks are getting more car-like every model year. My GMC Jimmy on the other hand drives like an old time truck, bumpy, slow, and not very manuverable. It tows my camper and carries both my dogs very well though. Couldn't ask for much more.

http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/models/ext/awd.html

Check out the Matrix info from Cadillac.com's web site:

http://www.cadillac.com/matrix/splash.html

[mathew_m]

Here's a dissenting opinion. Reloaded sucked.
I don't need to read the five pages of drooling mush you guys have spewed about this crappy movie.

Some quick random reasons why it sucked.

1) Morpheus: He looked and sounded like he's consumed too many hash brownies. In the first film he was an enigmatic character who's sermon's were used sparingly to good effect. In reloaded I wanted to see his fat ass fed to the matrix.

2) Pseudo-intellectual-hippy-mulch dialog. I guess you have to be a real smart guy on some real good drugs to figure out what the hell anybody was talking about.

3) Boring action scenes. See below.

Was that a video game that I just watched because thats sure the hell how it felt. Before they booted up they also decided to hack the game to god mode because not once did I ever feel any suspense or worry that the characters were in danger.

4) Zion. Looked like a hippy commune. I could almost smell the stench.

5) Why am I rooting for the bad guys (Agent Smith) and the French dude? Oh yeah because Keanu can't act and Morpheus (see above)

6) The ship. What's its name, the neberkennezzer?? What a P.O.S. I mean it literally looked like something that would come out of my ass after a night of binge drinking.

7) The ending. To be continued? Who ends a film like this? I felt ripped.

I could go on but what's the point.

I'll probably skip the next one.

Waiting for the onslaught.

[Nicko]

Originally posted by mathew_m:

Waiting for the onslaught.

Hmmm you seem bitter.

[mixin visuals]

Originally posted by mathew_m:
Here's a dissenting opinion. Reloaded sucked.
I don't need to read the five pages of drooling mush you guys have spewed about this crappy movie.

Some quick random reasons why it sucked.

1) Morpheus: He looked and sounded like he's consumed too many hash brownies. In the first film he was an enigmatic character who's sermon's were used sparingly to good effect. In reloaded I wanted to see his fat ass fed to the matrix.

2) Pseudo-intellectual-hippy-mulch dialog. I guess you have to be a real smart guy on some real good drugs to figure out what the hell anybody was talking about.

3) Boring action scenes. See below.

Was that a video game that I just watched because thats sure the hell how it felt. Before they booted up they also decided to hack the game to god mode because not once did I ever feel any suspense or worry that the characters were in danger.

4) Zion. Looked like a hippy commune. I could almost smell the stench.

5) Why am I rooting for the bad guys (Agent Smith) and the French dude? Oh yeah because Keanu can't act and Morpheus (see above)

6) The ship. What's its name, the neberkennezzer?? What a P.O.S. I mean it literally looked like something that would come out of my ass after a night of binge drinking.

7) The ending. To be continued? Who ends a film like this? I felt ripped.

I could go on but what's the point.

I'll probably skip the next one.

Waiting for the onslaught.

watch talkin bad about the matrix reloaded. you could get banned in here for that! hehehe.

my friend told me that many scenes got dragged out for like 10 minutes that should have been over in a minute.

his girl loved the first one as much as he did, and she literally feel asleep 3 times during the "rebloated" sequel.

don't believe the hype...

[Jansar]

Originally posted by mixin visuals:
watch talkin bad about the matrix reloaded. you could get banned in here for that! hehehe.

my friend told me that many scenes got dragged out for like 10 minutes that should have been over in a minute.

his girl loved the first one as much as he did, and she literally feel asleep 3 times during the "rebloated" sequel.

don't believe the hype...

I smell bullsh�t!

...and it reaks!

[mixin visuals]

Originally posted by Jansar:
I smell bullsh�t!

...and it reaks!

no i was completely honest from the word go. i said i haven't seen it yet, just said what my friend told me after he saw it.

regardless, if you like it thats cool, i am not trying to bash those that do. its just opinions.

i respect his opinion though. and obviously he isn't the only one that thinks that way.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by mixin visuals:
watch talkin bad about the matrix reloaded. you could get banned in here for that! hehehe.

my friend told me that many scenes got dragged out for like 10 minutes that should have been over in a minute.

his girl loved the first one as much as he did, and she literally feel asleep 3 times during the "rebloated" sequel.

don't believe the hype...

100% true. How easily do you have to be amused by moving things and guns to enjoy this movie?

The story blows, the directing was bla and even the art direction wasn't half as good as the first one.

In other words it was like Star Wars Episode 1.

[Teronzhul]

Originally posted by imaxxedout69:
But all the anamolys look EXACTLY the same.

Also, you never answered my question: WHAT REASON do the machines ahve to allow Zion to exist? They don't need them. THey should completely annhilate Zion. Why even give Zion a chance?

As it has already been said I believe that the images on the screens are indicative of Neo's thoughts, and his possible future actions, not of the previous "Ones."

The one problem I have with most of what I've read here is that a lot of people here seem to have misconceptions of exactly what neo is. I have only seen the movie once, and i wish I had the architects speech to read again. From what I recall, however, Neo is an anomaly, meaning he is not part of the normal function of the matrix, BUT he is expected. He is simply a broken piece.

This is why Zion is necessary, because Neo is expected. Analogy time. Since cars are favored topics around here lets use an engine shall we? The matrix is an engine. You keep it well oiled, full of gas, it runs flawlessly, most of the time. But it will break. No matter how well you care for it, eventually something will happen. For instance, your alternator may crap out. Say Neo is the alternator. So our alternator is broken; does the engine explode? Does it sieze? or stop the engine from functioning? No, it doesn't, it continues to spin under most circumstances and the battery takes over powering the car.

Zion is the battery. Zion is the failsafe that keeps the matrix running. Zion is hope for mankind, and if it wasn't for Zion, what would there be stopping Neo from awakening everyone and destroying the matrix. Most humans would decide that the destruction of humanity would be better than eternal enslavement. But the machines know that, and so they give the one a choice.

Continue hope, continue the chance that humanity may once again rise up and succeed, or destroy everything... kill everyone. The previous 5 "Ones" all chose to keep hope alive, that one day in Zion someone could figure out a way to put an end to all of it.

Zion is hope, and Zion is the control that keeps the One choosing that door that keeps the machines in command.

Someone stated that they thought Zion was required as hope for the general population, so that the machines would keep their 99.9% containment rate. I don't believe that is the case at all. Subconscious or not these humans have no clue that Zion even exists. Besides their normal religions all have a home within the matrix in their every day lives. I'm sure most of them would completely reject that Zion, as a real place, even existed.

Zion exists only to keep the One from destroying everything. So far it has worked flawlessly, but up until now the one has never fallen in love. The machines now must destroy Neo in the real world before he destroys them from inside the matrix. Zion is useless to them since Neo chose Trinity over humanity. It is now in their best interests to destroy every human not in the matrix, and sort it all out later.

Neo has a new trick up his sleeve though. Perhaps its evolution, perhaps its divine intervention. I have no theories as to how he can control the machines outside the matrix yet. I do believe though, that he is indeed outside the matrix.

The matrix in a matrix idea is too cliche and simple for what the wachowski brothers are doing I believe. There's another reason, and when we find it out I'm sure Neo is gonna be doing some real life ass kicking in the final movie. Maybe no kung-fu on the sentinels, but I betcha there's gonna be an orgy afterward

Oh, and btw, Morpheus's speech sucked butt.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

So what was all that sillyness about ghosts, UFO's and naughty programs?

In the first flick they tried to explain Deja-vous but I thought this UFO thing was a bit cheesy.

[mathew_m]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
100% true. How easily do you have to be amused by moving things and guns to enjoy this movie?

The story blows, the directing was bla and even the art direction wasn't half as good as the first one.

In other words it was like Star Wars Episode 1.

Actually Episode 1 is a better film. At least it had one decent scene.

The best thing I can say about Reloaded is they've successfully cloned Keanu Reeves as a digital actor. Not that it was all that difficult.

If you want a myopic, cold dish of cinematic sludge go see Reloaded.

[Nicko]

Originally posted by Teronzhul:


The matrix in a matrix idea is too cliche and simple for what the wachowski brothers are doing I believe. There's another reason, and when we find it out I'm sure Neo is gonna be doing some real life ass kicking in the final movie. Maybe no kung-fu on the sentinels, but I betcha there's gonna be an orgy afterward

Oh, and btw, Morpheus's speech sucked butt.

I really hope they don't go with a matrix in a matrix idea either. It would end up being like the 13th floor (bad movie). Considering how layered the plot it though, I'm also betting that the third movie will try to be as convoluted as the second. Oh and more orgies

[Nicko]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
So what was all that sillyness about ghosts, UFO's and naughty programs?

In the first flick they tried to explain Deja-vous but I thought this UFO thing was a bit cheesy.

They were programs who misbehaved... think buggy software.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by mathew_m:
The best thing I can say about Reloaded is they've successfully cloned Keanu Reeves as a digital actor. Not that it was all that difficult.

Actually that is what killed the movie for me. If you noticed that they did it then they failed.

[Nicko]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Actually that is what killed the movie for me. If you noticed that they did it then they failed.

Well atleast they didn't use puppets like in starwars

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by Nicko:
Well atleast they didn't use puppets like in starwars

Like I said, Star Wars Ep1 was horrible.

[Nicko]

Just found this comment posted on another board:

"Over 100 replies and no one commented on the continuation of the Alice in Wonderland theme? I think that is the strongest theme throughout the movies. The new one showed that the prophet is akin to the Cheshire Cat, the french virus/program is the Mad Hatter, the twins would be akin to twidle dee and twidle dum (they were cool though), Agent Smith is the Queen of Hearts complete with his card army (of himself). Anyone else see new parallels? The first movie was full of them and I came into this movie looking for them, maybe I looked too hard. "

I completely forgot about the whole 'alice in wonderland theme.' What do you guys make of this?

[mixin visuals]

Originally posted by Nicko:
Just found this comment posted on another board:

"Over 100 replies and no one commented on the continuation of the Alice in Wonderland theme? I think that is the strongest theme throughout the movies. The new one showed that the prophet is akin to the Cheshire Cat, the french virus/program is the Mad Hatter, the twins would be akin to twidle dee and twidle dum (they were cool though), Agent Smith is the Queen of Hearts complete with his card army (of himself). Anyone else see new parallels? The first movie was full of them and I came into this movie looking for them, maybe I looked too hard. "

I completely forgot about the whole 'alice in wonderland theme.' What do you guys make of this?

maybe that is why i didn't run out and jump on the bandwagon...

[Big Mac]

Originally posted by PookJP:
I'll just put it into an outline form so this doesn't end up being 15 pages long.

Neo, the protagonist, had no arc at all. In other words, he's completely undeveloped, and the writers skipped golden opportunities to give him more depth (his God-like status in Zion, his relationship with Trinity, etc). As is, he's a God-like figure who can kick a lot of ass in an entertaining fashion, but he seemed devoid of the conflict or struggle that characterized him in the first installment.

[SNIP]

I liked Reloaded quite a bit, even though it wasn't as satisfying as the previous film. I do, however, agree with 75% of what Pook wrote. As he stated, the creators missed some really wonderful opportunities in this film.

I can't really fault Reloaded if it fails to inject philosophical value, since I recognize it's primarily meant as an entertainment film. But as Pook points out, the literal narrative isn't even that strong here. This movie franchise has to straddle a delicate line between Kung-fu entertainment and substantive story-line. Unfortunately, Reloaded depicts too much empty action and too little substance. I still definitely enjoyed it despite the shortcomings.

[Mark Tungston]

mixin dude


your opinion is ok, as per skywalker has a negative opinion too. but the difference is that he saw it. he is a member of this forum and can then digress.


you on the other hand have seen nothing. you are going by your friend who we know even less about than you. and his girlfriend for that matter.


i would appreciate it if you kept your opinion concealed until you can properly discuss the issue.



as for me, i am a avid NY times reader and read a negative review for the Matrix reloaded and expected it to be as it said. but i enjoyed the movie thoroughly (less for the cave and porno scenes) and it seemed like i was in the theater for 5 minutes. i can't wait for M3.


As a add-on: None of the actors bothered me. I liked Neo and morpheous as i did in M1. I get more annoyed at so-called actors like ralph fiennes and etc for being pussies,

[iNub]

They could've made the computer animation more realistic if they would've just darkened it a bit. It looked fake because the clothes looked too light and they didn't wrinkle anywhere near as much as the real shots, if at all.

Anyways...


The first time I watched it, Morpheus' speech wasn't too bad, and the rave scene was way too long. This time, the speech sucks ass, it's too preachy. He sounds like a Pentecostal preacher... YUCK. The rave scene was cool beacuse it gives me time to go take a piss after drinking half a gallon of Mountain Dew at $45 an ounce. Oh, and people [blah blah] hope [blah blah] party. I was just disappointed I didn't get to see 5 minutes of Moss getting buck-ass naked on screen. That alone would be worth the price of admission.

On the Architect guy (Col. Sanders)... I figured out why that scene seemed familiar the first time I watched it. It reminded me of the fat guy in "Total Recall" trying to get Ah-nold to swallow the pill. He was putting an awful lot of force into that speech, like he could just hammer it into Neo's head with sheer force of will. Just a thought. He was lying about destroying Zion.

[InterfaceGuy]

'Matrix' Actor Marcus Chong Sues Over Tank Role

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml...toryID=2772914

[Nicko]

Originally posted by InterfaceGuy:
'Matrix' Actor Marcus Chong Sues Over Tank Role

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml...toryID=2772914

Wow. Sounds liked he cracked.

[mixin visuals]

Originally posted by Mark Tungston:
mixin dude


your opinion is ok, as per skywalker has a negative opinion too. but the difference is that he saw it. he is a member of this forum and can then digress.


you on the other hand have seen nothing. you are going by your friend who we know even less about than you. and his girlfriend for that matter.


i would appreciate it if you kept your opinion concealed until you can properly discuss the issue.

i digress. i have and always be a person that respects friends opinions on anything they feel like talking about.

i am not talking about me taking a drunk friends side on a fight i didn't see.

i stated just what he stated, and his girl also stated.

oops, i digressed again </britney>

[L'enfanTerrible]

I just saw this movie tonight, and I'll write up a good review tomorrow. I wanted to post about a couple small things that I really liked in the movie.

Firstly, the explanation of ghosts (The white twins) and werewolves (the dudes who get shot in the head by the french guys wife with silver bullets) as products of the programming of the Matrix really enhanced the mythology of the Matrix, much like the Alice in Wonderland theme, and they strengthened the surreality of the whole world of the movie. Very cool..

I don't have time to read the whole thread but did anyone notice the character Link's girlfriend was named Z?.. perhaps as in Zelda? hehe

Last but not least, I was impressed at the level of detail the Wachowski bros. gave to every element of the story. For example, the people who deify Neo, the Council, the evolution of the Squiddies, the Matrix through Neo's eyes, his significance as the One, I could go on and on. One thing that confused me a bit was Agent Smiths role in this movie. He is a loose program I suppose, and now he wants to eliminate Neo.. Perhaps he understands that Neo is supposed to become what he becomes and since Agent Smith is so sick of the Matrix he doesn't want to see it go on for a 7th time.

[Timo]

A pretty good write up that explains a lot of the philosophical mechanics is here:

http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm