[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by goMac 

There are always exceptions.

I've got 2.6 kids and a station wagon. I'm Mr Average. In fact, I'm the official spokesperson.

Most people (that I know) don't have Blu-ray DVD drives yet.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

I've got 2.6 kids and a station wagon. I'm Mr Average. In fact, I'm the official spokesperson.

Most people (that I know) don't have Blu-ray DVD drives yet.

Problem is that you and the people you know are not a valid sample. I don't know anyone with a Blu-Ray player (I have a friend with a PS3, but no Blu-Ray movies), but I know a few people with HD DVD players and movies. You can't really go by data like that, you have to look at the whole...

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Eug 

It's interesting how a sale can skew the sales rankings at Amazon. Right now the top four titles in the entire DVD section are all Harry Potter HD DVDs.

Wow, the latest Harry Potter movie is not even on the list. Must be that it is more expensive than the older Harry Potter movies. The old ones are all under $20. Actually, the top 7 HD-DVD movies are under $20. $20 is the sweet zone.

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

I have a friend with a PS3, but no Blu-Ray movies

Here in Spain there is a crazy promotion where you buy a PS3 and you get 40 (fourty) Blu-Ray movies… I asked to the store guy and he told me that like past year they have ran out of Wii and they don't sell the PS3 that well cause all people want is a Nintendo Wii and that MP3 player made by iPod

[Eug]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Wow, the latest Harry Potter movie is not even on the list. Must be that it is more expensive than the older Harry Potter movies. The old ones are all under $20. Actually, the top 7 HD-DVD movies are under $20. $20 is the sweet zone.

Actually, no. It would seem that $10 is the sweet zone.

The old movies are $20, but it's a 2-for-1 sale. These 2-for-1 (or "BOGO") sales are very powerful tool to get people to buy, for obvious reasons. HD DVD is doing it now, but Blu-ray was using it when Transformers came out on HD DVD for example.

Originally Posted by angelmb 

Here in Spain there is a crazy promotion where you buy a PS3 and you get 40 (fourty) Blu-Ray movies…

¡Ay, caramba!

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Actually, no. It would seem that $10 is the sweet zone.

The old movies are $20, but it's a 2-for-1 sale. These 2-for-1 (or "BOGO") sales are very powerful tool to get people to buy, for obvious reasons. HD DVD is doing it now, but Blu-ray was using it when Transformers came out on HD DVD for example.

Hah... I see now. Damn! Time to buy more HDDVD.

[hyteckit]

Alright, now I got every freaking Harry Potter movie on HDDVD. Funny thing is that I don't own a single Harry Potter movie on DVD. Haha..

Just bought 4 Harry Potter movies for $39.90. Already got the latest Harry Potter from Bestbuy BOGO sale.

[icruise]

So goMac, do you think it's possible that the popularity of the Harry Potter movies on HD-DVD might just have something to do with the fact that they're practically giving them away?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

So goMac, do you think it's possible that the popularity of the Harry Potter movies on HD-DVD might just have something to do with the fact that they're practically giving them away?

I'm not sure I'd call standard DVD pricing "giving them away" - but yes, they're definitely more popular because of the deal.

[hyteckit]

Warner is going to be so happy with the Harry Potter sales on HDDVD. It beat out Bourne Ultimatum on DVD which is selling under $17 and it's a new release. The Harry Potter HDDVD movies that is on sale are a few years old and people already own them on DVD. So it's quite an amazing feat.

[exca1ibur]

Harry Potter is a LOT more popular than the Bourne series. No way, it was going to sell less.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Harry Potter is a LOT more popular than the Bourne series. No way, it was going to sell less.

Well, Bourne Ultimatum on HD DVD outsold Harry Potter: Order of the Phoenix on HD DVD in the first week.

It also outsold HP: OotP on Blu-ray too in the first week. Mind you, part of the reason is people bought the Harry Potter box set.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

So goMac, do you think it's possible that the popularity of the Harry Potter movies on HD-DVD might just have something to do with the fact that they're practically giving them away?

Practically giving them away? It's fair pricing. Only one of them is a brand new movie. God forbid the HD-DVD camp charge something fair for their movies.

In other news, I mentioned before that Apple was trying to get people to include iPod-ized versions of their movies on Bluray discs. It looks like Apple has gotten Fox to start including iPod-ized versions of their movies on their standard DVD's.

Pre-ripped Dvds: Apple and Fox's Movie Rental Deal Also Includes Pre-ripped iPod/AppleTV Versions on DVDs

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Harry Potter is a LOT more popular than the Bourne series. No way, it was going to sell less.

Bourne Ultimatum is a new movie release. Came out in 2007. Bourne Ultimatum on DVD beat out the new Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheonix movie on DVD. Bourne Ultimatum on DVD is at #6, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix DVD is at #8.

The Harry Potter HDDVD movies that dominate the bestseller list are older Harry Potter movies that are a few years old. Most people already own those on DVD.

[Eug]

Actually, I'd agree that by today's standards, they're "practically giving them away". BOGO sales are very effective

However, the point is HD DVD is just doing what Blu-ray has been doing for months. Both sides want to inflate their numbers. It seems to me though Blu-ray has been keener to do this than HD DVD, since HD DVD has been working the player price angle better.

[hyteckit]

I keep seeing Bluray BOGO sales at Fry's, Bestbuy, Circuit City, buy.com, and amazon.com during the Holiday Season.

Finally we are getting some decent HDDVD BOGO sales.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Practically giving them away? It's fair pricing. Only one of them is a brand new movie. God forbid the HD-DVD camp charge something fair for their movies.

You're missing my point. You were pointing to high Harry Potter sales to back up your theory that HD-DVD buyers are mostly families and Blu-ray buyers are mostly "fanboys" and videophiles. But you can't use these numbers to prove anything of the kind when the Blu-ray versions of these movies are in effect twice as expensive as the HD-DVD versions.

There's nothing wrong with BOGO sales. As a consumer I like them, and they're good business (assuming your primary goal is selling lots of discs and not necessarily making a lot per disc).

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Practically giving them away? It's fair pricing. Only one of them is a brand new movie. God forbid the HD-DVD camp charge something fair for their movies.

Ya like those dual format disks everyone loves that even forces them to re-release the movies non-dual because nobody wanted to pay for it.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Ya like those dual format disks everyone loves that even forces them to re-release the movies non-dual because nobody wanted to pay for it.

I just had to laugh, cuz many of those discs in the BOGO sale are in fact combo discs.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

But you can't use these numbers to prove anything of the kind when the Blu-ray versions of these movies are in effect twice as expensive as the HD-DVD versions.

Thus begging the question, what kind of people would be buying the Bluray versions if they are more expensive?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Thus begging the question, what kind of people would be buying the Bluray versions if they are more expensive?

Huh?

[mrtew]

I just got a blu-ray player! Where can I find them practically giving away tons of blu-ray discs! I'd sure like to help their numbers by taking them off their hands!

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Huh?

He thinks HD-DVD movies are always going to be half price.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Why is this guy so sure the BSG sucks in video quality when ya'll think it looks great?

"It absolutely kills me to trash this one, but 'Battlestar Galactica: Season One' was easily the most disappointing release I witnessed all year. Flimsy cardboard construction, an awful outer casing that bends if you sneeze, and scratched discs jammed on rubber nubs combine to make this the most fragile digipak I've ever encountered. Even worse, it features a poor video transfer that suffers from artifacting and other fundamental problems. Fans like myself have been left in a deflated daze -- the Christmas present I was most looking forward to turned out to be a piece of cheaply constructed high-def junk."

Best (and Worst) High-Def Discs of 2007: Kenneth Brown | High-Def Digest

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

I just got a blu-ray player! Where can I find them practically giving away tons of blu-ray discs! I'd sure like to help their numbers by taking them off their hands!

Fry's Electronics has tons for sale, if you have one near you. If you don't have one near you try the online store.

Fry's Online.

In store usually has better prices. I got a 2 for $20 special. Some are even $9.99 regular price. Amazon also has sales all the time as well.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Fry's Electronics has tons for sale, if you have one near you. If you don't have one near you try the online store.

Fry's Online.

In store usually has better prices. I got a 2 for $20 special. Some are even $9.99 regular price. Amazon also has sales all the time as well.

Wow, those are some cheap Bluray prices. $9.99 for Terminator and Underworld. Nice. $13.99 for Xmen 3, fantastic 4, Ice Age, and Day After Tomorrow. Sweet deal. They are practically giving them away.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Why is this guy so sure the BSG sucks in video quality when ya'll think it looks great?

"It absolutely kills me to trash this one, but 'Battlestar Galactica: Season One' was easily the most disappointing release I witnessed all year. Flimsy cardboard construction, an awful outer casing that bends if you sneeze, and scratched discs jammed on rubber nubs combine to make this the most fragile digipak I've ever encountered. Even worse, it features a poor video transfer that suffers from artifacting and other fundamental problems. Fans like myself have been left in a deflated daze -- the Christmas present I was most looking forward to turned out to be a piece of cheaply constructed high-def junk."

Best (and Worst) High-Def Discs of 2007: Kenneth Brown | High-Def Digest

The packaging is one of the worst I've ever seen on ANY release, but I have no complaints about the video quality. You can see the comparison shots for yourself, the HD DVD version is by far the best release and the truest to the original intention of Moore (which means, there is grain in the video - it was ADDED on purpose).

[ort888]

Yeah, I saw it in the store and it looked like someone took a machete to the box. Hey, here's a great idea... let's hack off the corners. That would look so cool and futuristic...

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Yeah, I saw it in the store and it looked like someone took a machete to the box. Hey, here's a great idea... let's hack off the corners. That would look so cool and futuristic...

To be fair that is what they do in the show. But they should have at least made it better quality.

[Eug]

Actually, I don't mind the packaging of Battlestar Galactica. It seems fine to me. My copy arrived in good condition and I have no problems removing the discs. I like the packaging better than the Star Trek box set at least.

As for the image quality, it's definitely not a perfect transfer, but it's not bad... except for the audio sync for minute or so on disk 2. One thing is the heavy grain and marked contrast, but that's supposed to be there, as it was the director's intent.

I also don't understand how he could possibly give The Matrix the award for best transfer, considering the first of the trilogy is slightly out of sync with the audio, unless he is completely ignoring the audio here.

[hyteckit]

The Matrix Trilogy on HDDVD is awesome. The Matrix (first movie) is much better than the DVD version. I say it's a great transfer, although you can tell it's an older movie. The other two newer Matrix movie is just stunning.

I can't believe Transformers was not on the list, while 300 and Children of Men are. I have both 300 and Children of Men, and I think Transformers has the best picture quality and the sound is awesome.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I say it's a great transfer, although you can tell it's an older movie.

Not sure what that means...

And I can't believe Lost beat out Heroes for the best TV in HD. I could understand it if it was Lost Season 1 *maybe*, but Season 3 sucked donkey dong.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Problem is that you and the people you know are not a valid sample. I don't know anyone with a Blu-Ray player (I have a friend with a PS3, but no Blu-Ray movies), but I know a few people with HD DVD players and movies. You can't really go by data like that, you have to look at the whole...

The argument was that "people don't consider DVD capabilities in game consoles because most people already have DVD players".

My response was that most people don't already have Blu-ray DVD players. I could have (should have?) included HD-DVD in there as well.

So you're missing my point. IMHO, average families (like mine) are only going to bother with next-gen DVD players if they're given away for free with a gaming console for young Timmy. I've had a HD TV for nearly two years now, yet I've been satisfied with the free-to-air HD TV transmissions until Christmas (and a hefty price drop) finally gave us an excuse to purchase a PS3(/Blu-ray player). Looking at the store shelves around here, I'm guessing we're not alone. We already have a Wii, so why didn't I buy a HD-DVD player instead? Because young Timmy* (and dad) can score another game console in the bargain.

Wiis and Playstations are apples and oranges, but as the PS3 gets cheaper more families will take the "kill two birds with one stone" approach and favour the PS3 (IMO).


<also watched the laserdisc proponents knock themselves out.



*Names have been changed to protect the innocent.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Not sure what that means...

And I can't believe Lost beat out Heroes for the best TV in HD. I could understand it if it was Lost Season 1 *maybe*, but Season 3 sucked donkey dong.

I think both Face Off and The Matrix are good transfers on HDDVD, even though both movies were shot in the late 90's. Both are noticeably better than the DVD version. They don't contain the compression artifacts seen in the DVD version. They are more detail than their DVD counterpart.

However, both contain some noise associated with older video cameras. They also lack the detail, picture clarity, color separation seen in recent movies shot in the last 5 years. Movies like Mission Impossible 3, Transformers, 300, Children of Men, Matrix Reloaded, Matrix Revolution, Batman Begins, and Super Returns are clearly shot more recently. The color separation, picture clarity, and details in those more recent movies are stunning.

[Shaddim]

Matrix DVD transfer is very weak, especially the audio sync issues and compression artefacts. Even the laserdisc release is better.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

<also watched the laserdisc proponents knock themselves out.

That was a bittersweet era. There was much more anticipation and joy over newly released laserdiscs. When anything even vaguely cool came out we'd have gatherings to watch movies. It was an event.

[powerbook867]

One thing that relates to both media formats is the Netflix wait on new releases.

All my top choices are either long wait or very long wait. I sent them a question about this, but don't expect much of a response back..

I am assuming it's not just me.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

The argument was that "people don't consider DVD capabilities in game consoles because most people already have DVD players".

My response was that most people don't already have Blu-ray DVD players. I could have (should have?) included HD-DVD in there as well.

So you're missing my point. IMHO, average families (like mine) are only going to bother with next-gen DVD players if they're given away for free with a gaming console for young Timmy. I've had a HD TV for nearly two years now, yet I've been satisfied with the free-to-air HD TV transmissions until Christmas (and a hefty price drop) finally gave us an excuse to purchase a PS3(/Blu-ray player). Looking at the store shelves around here, I'm guessing we're not alone. We already have a Wii, so why didn't I buy a HD-DVD player instead? Because young Timmy* (and dad) can score another game console in the bargain.

Wiis and Playstations are apples and oranges, but as the PS3 gets cheaper more families will take the "kill two birds with one stone" approach and favour the PS3 (IMO).


<also watched the laserdisc proponents knock themselves out.



*Names have been changed to protect the innocent.

I reiterate my point - your experience and opinion based off of that experience is not necessarily a reflection of the market as a whole. Despite what a few people in this thread would have you believe, the PS2 was NOT the deciding factor in DVD adoption, and the majority of DVDs are not played on game systems. Sales of standalone DVD players make game console sales look like nothing.

The same will happen with Blu-Ray and HD DVD. If either (or both) format is to reach the same market penetration as DVD it will be through standalone sales. The PS3 will definitely be a huge help here in the beginning, but it will not be the deciding factor for the majority of the buying public.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

The PS3 will definitely be a huge help here in the beginning...

... which is my point. The beginning is where the format war is fought.

[Eug]

Sales ratio for the week ending Dec. 23: 61 : 39

01. The Bourne Ultimatum - HD DVD
02. The Simpsons - Blu
03. Pirates 3 - Blu
04. Harry Potter - Blu
05. Harry Potter - HD DVD
06. Planet Earth - HD DVD
07. Spiderman 3 - Blu
08. Transformers - HD DVD
09. 300 - Blu
10. Planet Earth - Blu
11. Blade Runner - HD DVD
12. Blade Runner - Blu
13. Ratatouille - Blu
14. Shrek the Third - HD DVD
15. Die Hard 4 - Blu
16. Superbad - Blu
17. Oceans 13 - Blu
18. The Departed - Blu
19. The Silver Surfer - Blu
20. Casino Royale - Blu

[icruise]

Wow, only 6 out of the top 20 are HD-DVD?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Wow, only 6 out of the top 20 are HD-DVD?

Which sounds about normal for the past year.

[Dakar the Fourth]

And this is with all the extra HD-DVD players that were flying off the shelves that past month and half...

[starman]

Speaking of laserdiscs, I'm about to toss the last of my "it's on DVD" LDs.

It's a sad day.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

And this is with all the extra HD-DVD players that were flying off the shelves that past month and half...

Yup a year later after BR took the lead and all the $200 HD player and 10 free movies, paramount going exclusive and still it didn't help them much at all.

Guess people really don't care about cheap players, "less copy protection" and PiP or why else didn't they win the war by now?

[starman]

SWG,
Exactly true. Cheaper players should have won the war a long time ago. It seems to be more about the titles. I don't know what it's like on the burning side, though. I'd still like to get a BR burner, just for the capacity (and let's not start this 'do you really have 50 GB to burn?' because I do).

[Dakar the Fourth]

I could see myself picking up a blu-ray player in the coming year... if one gets made that finally dethrones the PS3 as the best.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Yup a year later after BR took the lead and all the $200 HD player and 10 free movies, paramount going exclusive and still it didn't help them much at all.

Guess people really don't care about cheap players, "less copy protection" and PiP or why else didn't they win the war by now?

That's just it. There are about 3.5 million Blu-ray players or so out there in North America. Why haven't they won the war by now? Having all those consoles out there hasn't seemed to helped them enough either, even with all those Blu-ray BOGO sales. The stalemate continues.

As for pricing... FS online sold 400 units of $100 HD DVD players in 10 minutes. Then Best Buy online sold another 200 units of $200 HD DVD players in the next hour or two. FS online took almost a day to sell just 80 $300 Samsung Profile 1.0 Blu-ray players.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by starman 

Speaking of laserdiscs, I'm about to toss the last of my "it's on DVD" LDs.

It's a sad day.

I'll be damned if I throw away my MUSE discs, I spent way too long collecting those. Over the years I've sold off or given away many of my non-DTS regular discs, but I have certain ones that I'll probably never be able to throw out, like my Criterions and the SW: Definitive Collection.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

That's just it. There are about 3.5 million Blu-ray players or so out there in North America. Why haven't they won the war by now?

So HD-DVD's motto is "Where better because we aren't dead yet". The reason we are still in this war is not because of the price of players but because of the stupid studio's. Some movies come out for one format and not the other. One has a audio sync problem, the other a video one. Paramount goes HD because of a cash payoff late in the race when HD is losing for 12 months. Studio's dragging their asses to release any movies worth buying in HD.

Anywho, think back to last december.

HD-DVD had like 6 months on the market with pretty cheap players and more movies.

Then the $600 impossible to get PS3 (with all of its downsides to HD-DVD) comes out an in the same month beats HD in sales with very few PS3's on the market.

That right there shows you what a strong impact the PS3 is having on this war and how few people care about PiP and $200 players. A year later it is still true.