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mathew_m · May 16, 2003, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by undotwa:
I'm not saying you must be Christian, I am saying that most 'pro-life' people are Christian (like me) because the organizations are primarily Church funded.

Why would I have to belong to a organization to be pro-life? Couldn't I be an individual and still support the pro-life cause by voicing my opinion? No, just because I'm anti pro-choice blow hards I must be a misogynist rube from the midwest.

maxelson · May 16, 2003, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by mathew_m:
I'm quaking in my boots. I don't personally know andi pand but only based from her irrational attack upon me I'll stand my ground. If she can better my argument then so be it but she'll have to prove it.

And hey I'm officially a senior member. My only goal with this thread was to get my post count up over a hundred so I could be taken seriously against all of the 1000000 post MacNN uber geeks

Home keeping youths ever have homely wits.

Irrational is a subjective term. Isn't it.

Damn, man. You come in with words like to those you spewed and DON'T expect someone to call you on it?

Personally, I think your argumet is irrational and specious. OK. Not specious. It's another spurious jybe. Thassit.
As for proof. What have you proven? NOTHING. Well, almost nothing- but what you rpooved had nothing to do with the topic at hand.
And you didn't expect what you got? Absurd.

andi*pandi · May 16, 2003, 11:54 AM

First, the person I grudgingly respect:

People are inherently good. Generally, they can be trusted to do the right thing. Once you begin restricting the rights and privileges of all people based on the irresponsible actions of a few - there will be no end in sight.

in your own words, Spliff. Granted, it was the other thread, but freedom is freedom, isn't it? Trust is trust? As I've said before, it's great if the man wants to be involved... for most women, knowing that they have a supportive partner is all the convincing they need to keep the child. For others, without a supportive partner, someone who splits when he found out the condom broke, well those women... are they condemned to hardship because of a bad choice of mate? Raising a kid alone ain't easy.

I clearly stated that women IN THESE SITUATIONS are not rational enough to make the right decision.

Mathew, you're a newbie, and face it, you said harsh things. Picking on my name doesn't make you appear any more respectable or mature.

Perhaps I could have worded my post better (boots said it VERY well) but I stand by it. You implied that women aren't able to make these decisions for themselves because they are irrational. Who then is qualified to make that decision? Their boyfriend? Their doctor? Their priest? Their congressman? Who is going to have to live with this decision, either way, for the rest of their lives? The woman. Even if she's only 15 at the time.

Are any of those guys going to be around at 2 am when the child is throwing up and needs rocking? Are any of those guys going to pay for all the bottles and diapers? Are any of those guys willing to support this woman so she can finish school? Are we willing to have state-sponsored daycare so she can work to support her child? Are you willing to pay part of your taxes so they won't be on the street?

Do you still care about the unborn child once you realize the costs of it? Do you care more about your pocketbook than children? You can't have it both ways.

Regarding accountability, outside of rape a woman is 100% responsible for what enters her body.

I see. Then isn't she 100% responsible for what comes out of it? If she is the only one vested in it, then you've made it clear all the decisions pending it fall back to her. Hmm, I think you've made my argument for me.

Alternately, this quote makes me think you are completely pro-abstenence until marriage. Are you sure you're not Christian? You never had sex? You do realize that birth control, even the most reliable methods, is not 100% effective.

andi*pandi · May 16, 2003, 11:59 AM

opinion? just because I'm anti pro-choice blow hards I must be a misogynist rube from the midwest.

prove to me you're not.

thunderous_funker · May 16, 2003, 01:22 PM

What's a suitable "punishment" for the father of an unwanted pregnancy that is required to be carried full term?

Child support is a joke. No one pays it. In fact, it's such a universally ignored requirement than when processing a recipient's credit application, it doesn't even count as income by most lending institutions.

State ordered sterilization?

Maybe those weighted feaux-pregnancy suits? Make the guy wear it 24/7 for 9 months.

And when a woman has to give her baby up for adoption because she can't raise it, what should the father be required to sacrifice? Something he has suffered for nearly a year so it has even a fraction of the emotional impact of giving up a baby you've carried to term.

Yeah, apparently it really is 100% a women's responsibility for an unwanted pregnancy. From where I'm standing, it seems that everything falls squarely on their shoulders. The health impact. The financial impact. The emotional impact. The social stigma.

Meanwhile daddy heads off to the bar for a few shots with the boys.

All this talk about "personal responsibility" clearly ignores the inequity of the situation.

Reproductive freedom is as fundamental to the status of women in society as suffrage.

Spliffdaddy · May 16, 2003, 01:30 PM

I, for one, expect fathers to have enough integrity to raise their child ALONE, if need be. A father shares the exact same responsibilities for the child as the mother does.

You aren't getting off so easily on this one.

Sometimes bad decisions DO have longlasting consequences. It's a big part of being human.

I'm all for expecting fathers to be parents - 100% behind that idea.

maxelson · May 16, 2003, 01:36 PM

Me too. Unfortunately (and no joke), shirked fatherhood is not uncommon. What TF describes IS.
The question is what to do about it.

thunderous_funker · May 16, 2003, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I, for one, expect fathers to have enough integrity to raise their child ALONE, if need be. A father shares the exact same responsibilities for the child as the mother does.

You aren't getting off so easily on this one.

Sometimes bad decisions DO have longlasting consequences. It's a big part of being human.

I'm all for expecting fathers to be parents - 100% behind that idea.

How noble. I'm sure your "expectation" will soften the blow for millions of obligated mothers.

Now, since mothers would have no choices but to have an unwanted child from an unplanned pregnancy by order of law, what legal form is your "expectation" going to take?

Mandated marriage? More righteous indignation of deadbeats who don't pay support? Cramming them in prison (which also fails to provide for the child)?

I'm sure you're quite sincere in your expression that a father bears responsiblity. I'm sure most people agree. But the reality remains that all of the legally mandated (and biological) responsibility remains 100% on women denied the right to choose.

undotwa · May 16, 2003, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by mathew_m:
Why would I have to belong to a organization to be pro-life? Couldn't I be an individual and still support the pro-life cause by voicing my opinion? No, just because I'm anti pro-choice blow hards I must be a misogynist rube from the midwest.

COMPREHEND THIS: I AM NOT SAYING YOU MUST BE, JUST THAT IT'S PRETTY DARN LIKELY SINCE MOST PEOPLE COULDN'T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT IT

That said, my brother is an atheist - still pro life.

undotwa · May 16, 2003, 07:17 PM

These all are social problems which must be dealt with.

mathew_m · 10:18 PM

I won't directly reply to any of the false accusations because I'm a victim of a semantic arguement. Andi Pandi directly called me a dumbass only because she had a knee jerk reaction (is that better than irrational? I hope so). I countered back equally playing by the same rules (ad hominem attack) when I should of been a better man and clarified my stance amicably.

And let it be known that I mostly agree with Andi's opinion unfortunately because of her tone towards me I cannot respect it. I'm not sure how my being a virgin (though I'm not) has anything to do with being pro-life. You don't exactly present a reasonable nor intelligent arguement.

Sorry, post count does not equal superiority in my book. My post concerning that was facetious Max. You didn't need to post a stream of concious rambling to figure that out.

mathew_m · May 16, 2003, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by undotwa:
These all are social problems which must be dealt with.

I agree but unfortunately Ted Turner is down to his last billion and Jane Fonda is acting again (I smell Barbarella 2005).

MikeM33 · May 17, 2003, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Public schools in America have offered sex education as far back as 1976. I was there.

It doesn't work because I haven't had sex yet.

But what about that 20 yr old girlfriend you posted about a month ago or so?

MikeM

maxelson · May 19, 2003, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by mathew_m:

Sorry, post count does not equal superiority in my book. My post concerning that was facetious Max. You didn't need to post a stream of concious rambling to figure that out.

Man, you funny. Stream of concious. TO be sure, my "concious" is streaming this morning.

Would you PLEASE look up that phrase
a) for the spelling and
b) for proper usage? I am not so sure you know what it means.

Look, man. Just because you have a problem following along with the little red ball does not mean the thought process is derived of rambling disconnected statements and ideas.

You also keep bringing up this post count thing. It must really bother you. No one else seems to care about it. Hey! DH! Knock me back to a permenant -1 post count so we can make the boy feel better.

Grow up, you victim, you.

mathew_m · May 19, 2003, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by maxelson:
Man, you funny. Stream of concious. TO be sure, my "concious" is streaming this morning.

Would you PLEASE look up that phrase
a) for the spelling and
b) for proper usage? I am not so sure you know what it means.

Look, man. Just because you have a problem following along with the little red ball does not mean the thought process is derived of rambling disconnected statements and ideas.

You also keep bringing up this post count thing. It must really bother you. No one else seems to care about it. Hey! DH! Knock me back to a permenant -1 post count so we can make the boy feel better.

Grow up, you victim, you.

stream of conscious---ness. Sorry about that but you get the gist.

things · May 20, 2003, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by maxelson:
Man, you funny. Stream of concious. TO be sure, my "concious" is streaming this morning.

Would you PLEASE look up that phrase
a) for the spelling and
b) for proper usage? I am not so sure you know what it means.

Look, man. Just because you have a problem following along with the little red ball does not mean the thought process is derived of rambling disconnected statements and ideas.

You also keep bringing up this post count thing. It must really bother you. No one else seems to care about it. Hey! DH! Knock me back to a permenant -1 post count so we can make the boy feel better.

Grow up, you victim, you.

What a Dick!

maxelson · May 21, 2003, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by things:
What a Dick!

Actually, my name is Max. I did have an uncle Richard, but he's long since gone to join the choir invisible.

In case you missed the subtlety: Unless you are Ben Franklin (who had the habit of capitalizing every noun), the proper phrasing would be "What a dick", as here the term "dick" is used not as a proper noun.

Hey, man- good effort though! You have succeeded in making me giggle a bit! Oh. Was that not your intent? Well, keep trying. I am sure you may raise my blood pressure at some point. Or not, if this is the only level of insult of which you are capable- which is common for 8th graders.

On your way, boy. I invite you back when you can present a proper challenge.

andi*pandi · May 21, 2003, 10:51 AM

mathew_m · 01:16 PM

Originally posted by maxelson:
Actually, my name is Max. I did have an uncle Richard, but he's long since gone to join the choir invisible.

In case you missed the subtlety: Unless you are Ben Franklin (who had the habit of capitalizing every noun), the proper phrasing would be "What a dick", as here the term "dick" is used not as a proper noun.

Hey, man- good effort though! You have succeeded in making me giggle a bit! Oh. Was that not your intent? Well, keep trying. I am sure you may raise my blood pressure at some point. Or not, if this is the only level of insult of which you are capable- which is common for 8th graders.

On your way, boy. I invite you back when you can present a proper challenge.

Well Maxie you just put your foot in your mouth. If were you not a dick you would of either ignored the comment or defended yourself by basing some claim for your opinion. Instead you resorted to the same B.S. antics that you hypocitically claim that you are above. Idiot.
And no you are not funny. Well except for Andi Pandi but she's just your cowering henchman.... (deleted not to hurt any more sensitive feelings)

maxelson · 01:20 PM

And if you were not an extreme moron, you'd at least leave yourself open as little as possible. Hint: would you PLEASE at least TRY and sound smart when you are trying to look smart? Hypocitically? And you call me an idiot... man, you're the most fun I've had in... oh, ten minutes!

What am I supposed to defend against? A child calling me a "Dick"?

Oh. And if I'm the "Dick" for replying... you would be...

C'mon, man. You can do better than this. Oh. Wait. Persusing the history... well, jeez! Maybe you really can't!
Shows the sorry state of education today, I guess.
Look, kid. When you can play in the big arena, come back. Go get yourself some training or something. "Thingy". Go exercise your concious.

::sits back, sips coffee, semi eagerly awaits next tempest of whirling wit::

mathew_m · May 21, 2003, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by maxelson:
And if you were not an extreme moron, you'd at least leave yourself open as little as possible. Hint: would you PLEASE at least TRY and sound smart when you are trying to look smart? Hypocitically? And you call me an idiot... man, you're the most fun I've had in... oh, ten minutes!

What am I supposed to defend against? A child calling me a "Dick"?

Oh. And if I'm the "Dick" for replying... you would be...

C'mon, man. You can do better than this. Oh. Wait. Persusing the history... well, jeez! Maybe you really can't!
Shows the sorry state of education today, I guess.
Look, kid. When you can play in the big arena, come back. Go get yourself some training or something. "Thingy". Go exercise your concious.

Actually it's enjoyable watching you self-destruct. Continue on with the parade.

maxelson · May 21, 2003, 01:21 PM

Can't think of any actual words, huh?

Heh. Ah, well. No sport, I guess.

Wus.

maxelson · May 21, 2003, 01:22 PM

Ooop. Sorry. Missed your actual words there.

Self destruct. I seeeee. Hm. Pray, elaborate? C'mon. I'll close one eye and type with one hand. Just, you know... to make it more comfey for you.

Seriously, though, how old are you? If you've gone and gotten some degree or other, well, man, get your money back. If you're a young'un, well, I THINK there may be some potential, but it's a tad early to tell.

Although, I'll give you this: thy wit doth become thee rarely.
(take your time with that one... it is kind of a backhanded compliment)

mathew_m · May 21, 2003, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by maxelson:
Ooop. Sorry. Missed your actual words there.

Self destruct. I seeeee. Hm. Pray, elaborate? C'mon. I'll close one eye and type with one hand. Just, you know... to make it more comfey for you.

Ahh Maxie's obtuse wit, how charming. Is this how you pick up the ladies?

maxelson · May 21, 2003, 01:27 PM

Is that it.

PLEASE. WORK.

And I asked for an elaboration. You know. On my imminent self destruction.

mathew_m · May 21, 2003, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by maxelson:
Is that it. PLEASE. WORK.

Actually I do have work to do instead of chasing my tail in circles. I have to say that these MacNN ad hominem debates are addictive. Kind of like a tomagotchi I continue wanting to feed it.

chris v · May 21, 2003, 02:08 PM

I've been waiting all week to use my newest creation. I'd say this thread just about desrves it at last:

Not that it's a bad thing.

CV

andi*pandi · May 21, 2003, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by mathew_m:
And no you are not funny. Well except for Andi Pandi but she's just your cowering henchman....

cowering? You mean Towering, don't you?

I laughed because you got oW|\|Zed, silly! I do the same for anyone.

oh and hey, Matt, the only reason I didn't reply to your last post was I didn't want to seem "reactionary," plus it seemed to have no point.

So, you advocate Max to back down so folks don't call him a d!ck, but when I back down I'm cowering... interesting. So the only choices are being a d!ck, or cowering... what are you then?

That we seem to have the same opinion, yet have sunk to name-calling... what does that say? Your original post was inflammatory. Other people than me called you on it. Yes, I reacted. Wasn't I meant to? I say again, for someone who is supposedly on "my side" you say some awful things. It conflicts with "the message."

And lastly, about my comment about abstinence: you implied in a post that a woman was 100% responsible for what went into her body no matter what happened. Thus, I inferred your meaning if she didn't want a pregnancy, she should never have sex. Thus I inferred that you were pro-abstinence, never speculating on your sex life at all. Ew.

I said all this, didn't I? Do I have to paint a picture?

maxelson · May 21, 2003, 02:35 PM

HEY!
This thread had been delcared derailed. Only a cowering henchperson like yourself would have the unmitigated GUMPTION to lift it back near the track.

mathew_m · May 21, 2003, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by andi*pandi:

Thus I inferred that you were pro-abstinence, never speculating on your sex life at all. Ew.

I said all this, didn't I? Do I have to paint a picture?

You can speculate on my sex life anytime.

I have some body paint if you would like to paint me a picture.

maxelson · May 21, 2003, 02:48 PM

DAMMIT, MAN!!! RAISE THE BAR!!! RAAAAIIIISE IT! Come on out of the schoolyard! PLEASE! Step away from the jungle gym! For the sake of my own entertainment! BODY PAINT?!?! Shyte. My friggin' 9 year old NEPHEW could have done better, and he's on meds!

andi*pandi · May 21, 2003, 03:22 PM

hey max, stow it!

Chris v posted his WONDERFUL picture (Yay Chris!) two seconds before I did. I don't mean to rerail the topic.

But not sure I want to get in discussion about body paint either! agh!

mathew_m · 03:59 PM

Originally posted by maxelson:
[B]DAMMIT, MAN!!! RAISE THE BAR!!! RAAAAIIIISE IT!

Are you channeling Rev. Jesse Jackson?

Come on out of the schoolyard! PLEASE! Step away from the jungle gym!

I'm not armed Mr. Recess Attendant. The rest deleted out of respect...

For the sake of my own entertainment! BODY PAINT?!?! Shyte. My friggin' 9 year old NEPHEW could have done better, and he's on meds!

No it was for the sake of Andi Pandi's entertainment. I don't wish to shave you first.
You haven't been sneaking into your nephew's medicine cabinet now have you? Grrrr

andi*pandi · May 21, 2003, 04:02 PM

ok, where's boots and his FlameFest Arena Challenge Thread?

TWO MEN ENTER.... ONE MAN LEAVES.

boots?

mathew_m · May 21, 2003, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by andi*pandi:
ok, where's boots and his FlameFest Arena Challenge Thread?

TWO MEN ENTER.... ONE MAN LEAVES.

boots?

I was just playing rope-a-dope. If Maxie's ready I'm up for the challenge.

Master Blaster oW|\|Ze barter town!

Spheric Harlot · May 21, 2003, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by mathew_m:
Ahh Maxie's obtuse wit, how charming. Is this how you pick up the ladies?

Well, he had me with that comment, and I'm not even a lady!

"Master Blaster", eh?

Hm. So who's the little monkey riding on your back? Maybe he should do the posting.

-s*

NosniboR80 · May 22, 2003, 08:09 PM

I've seen abortion discussions go bad many a time, but the cause of this derailment is so senseless, the root of the disagreement so miniscule, and the content of the discussion so vacuous that I'm beginning to believe the popular belief that abortion is not a topic over which mere mortals can converse effectively.

Spliffdaddy · May 22, 2003, 08:30 PM

because it's wrong?