[Dopey]

Does anyone have some thoughts on the best browser to use for OS X. I am using the IE that came with my tower and it is pretty slow on my dial-up connection relative to the Windows PC that I have converted from. I know people have a visceral distaste for microsoft, but are the other OS X browsers actually faster or otherwise better?

Thanks

OmniWeb (www.omnigroup.com) is the best!

Check out their sneaky peek previews.

Chris.

[Hobbes]

I would have to second the above opinion. However you might also want to give Mozilla a try. The latest build (0.9.8) is pretty impressive.

[SMacSteve]

I too would check out the Omni Web 4.1 sneaky peek posted in the link above. It's faster than IE 5.1, but there are still some Java issues although most have been worked out. It for certain is much prettier than IE as it has font smoothing anti aliasing.

[starfleetX]

Mozilla 0.9.8 is the fastest and most compatible, hands down.
It's a little ugly as far as the interface, but it's hella fast!

The nightly Mach-O builds of Mozilla (0.9.8+) are even faster.

OmniWeb may be pretty, but I've given up on it as my default browser (yes, I've been using the SPs for a long time). Maybe the "completely rewritten" rendering engine in 5.0 that Rick talks about will finally get it up to speed. If it doesn't, OmniWeb is dead. People are already getting the new Cocoa-style antialiasing in special builds of Mozilla.

By the way, a good way to test your browser's rendering speed is to load a huge thread from ArsTechnica or Slashdot. Giant tables like those bring OW and IE to their knees but don't even phase Mozilla. Of course, those results are much more noticeable on a broadband connection since you aren't waiting for the page itself to download.

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]

[moss514]

omniweb, hands down! (and it's getting better and better)

[starfleetX]

Okay, I just did a simple rendering speed test. I saved this page to hy hard drive, cleared the cache of all browsers, closed all browsers, re-opened the browers, and timed how long it took to COMPLETELY load the page. In OmniWeb, I turned OFF the "Start drawing web pages before they are entirely loaded" option. This is on my Dual 500 G4 with OSX 10.1.2 and 832MB of RAM.

Omniweb 4.0.6: 9.0 seconds
Omniweb 4.1 sneakypeek 36: 7.8 seconds
Internet Explorer 5.1: 10.3 seconds
Mozilla 0.9.8: 3.9 seconds

[theolein]

Originally posted by starfleetX:
<STRONG>Okay, I just did a simple rendering speed test. I saved this page to hy hard drive, cleared the cache of all browsers, closed all browsers, re-opened the browers, and timed how long it took to COMPLETELY load the page. In OmniWeb, I turned OFF the "Start drawing web pages before they are entirely loaded" option. This is on my Dual 500 G4 with OSX 10.1.2 and 832MB of RAM.

Omniweb 4.0.6: 9.0 seconds
Omniweb 4.1 sneakypeek 36: 7.8 seconds
Internet Explorer 5.1: 10.3 seconds
Mozilla 0.9.8: 3.9 seconds</STRONG>

Speaks legends doesn't it?

[Ron Goodman]

Omniweb, without doubt. I keep a current copy of Mozilla around, but don't like to look at it all that much.

[Mack]

I'd rather wait a few seconds and have a page worth looking at. I spend far more time reading pages than I do loading them, regardless of which browser I'm using, and nothing comes close to OmniWeb for rendering a great-looking page.

[starfleetX]

Originally posted by Mack:
<STRONG>I'd rather wait a few seconds and have a page worth looking at... and nothing comes close to OmniWeb for rendering a great-looking page.</STRONG>

Well, if OmniWeb would render CSS and tables properly, I'd keep it default too. I suppose I'm getting spoiled by Mozilla's consistant ability to correctly render pages.

Besides that, it won't be long until Omniweb-like Cocoa-style antialiasing starts going into the regular nightly builds of the Mozilla mach-o binaries. Just look at the smooth text in this snapshot!

See? Pretty antialiasing like Omniweb... oooh...

edit: made image a link

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]

[AKcrab]

Mozilla rocks. Standards compliant, fast, plug-ins are working again, CONSTANT updates (as in nightly if you want to take the time). I only save IE in case there is a site that FORCES me to use it.

StarfleetX, thank you for offering some SOLID proof!!

[SMacSteve]

Originally posted by starfleetX:
<STRONG>Mozilla 0.9.8 is the fastest and most compatible, hands down.
It's a little ugly as far as the interface, but it's hella fast!

The nightly Mach-O builds of Mozilla (0.9.8+) are even faster.

OmniWeb may be pretty, but I've given up on it as my default browser (yes, I've been using the SPs for a long time). Maybe the "completely rewritten" rendering engine in 5.0 that Rick talks about will finally get it up to speed. If it doesn't, OmniWeb is dead. People are already getting the new Cocoa-style antialiasing in special builds of Mozilla.

By the way, a good way to test your browser's rendering speed is to load a huge thread from ArsTechnica or Slashdot. Giant tables like those bring OW and IE to their knees but don't even phase Mozilla. Of course, those results are much more noticeable on a broadband connection since you aren't waiting for the page itself to download.

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</STRONG>

Can you provide a link to the site to download the Nightly Mach-O builds?
Also, how's the reliability of Mozilla can it replace IE entirely?

[Maneki Neko]

I really, really love OmniWeb. I registered it shortly after downloading. I do wish it was faster though.

If Opera can ever release something that's as good as Opera 6 for Windows, but with a mac look and feel, then I may just switch to that.

[yukon]

iCab. fastest browser with almost all functionality and very useful features. latest version hasn't crashed on me.

I do like omniweb (often more), but it is a little too unresponsive for my fast surfing and multiple windows. Mozilla is much faster than before, yet is still very slow. IE is just bad (makes entire system unresponsive with the spinning disk cursor, 786mb ram).

my opinion

[SMacSteve]

OK, here's my take on Mozilla:
It's fast on some things, but not all.
It's very ugly (hate Netscape so go figure) It's certainly not Aqua like.
The scrolling is very slow
I'll stick with Omni 4.1 and IE they're the only ones I've liked so far.

[CharlesS]

Mozilla is the slowest browser available, hands down. The rendering engine may be fast, but the browser is slow.

[iNeusch]

OmniWeb, even with the small bugs (bad pages rendering, like this one
But I never understood why

Other than that, it's THE MacOS X browser

[iSore]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
<STRONG>Mozilla is the slowest browser available, hands down. The rendering engine may be fast, but the browser is slow.</STRONG>

Am I alone in finding comments to this effect bizarre?

Mozilla's UI lags, I agree. OmniWeb's preferences window is certainly quicker to access... but exactly how much time does one spend setting preferences (or viewing one's history) relative to using a browser to browse?

What am I missing here?

[KellyHogan]

I tried OmniWeb this week and it is faster than Explorer but it also lacks many features and compatibility for drop down sheets on web-pages, Java is slow, no Flash and so on. Very nice though.

[bluehz]

I have for months to use OmniWeb - I love the look fo it and I don't even mind waiting a bit for the nicely rendered pages. But it is just too unstable - crashes constantly on OS X 10.1.2. And yes I do keep up with thw sneaky peeks too...still crashing.

[BZ]

Speed is an issue but not the ONLY issue.

Mozilla is a bit faster downloading (350Mhz G4, 10.1.2, 1.5 GB Ram) but it sucks on start up, it sucks on memory and the UI is slow. Omniweb, OTOH, is very fast, very customizable and very Mac OS X.

I spend 90% of my application use in browsers and while IE, Mozilla and OmniWeb (SP37) all sit in the dock, OmniWeb is what I use to surf. Sure, if something does not work in OW, I go over to IE but for all the reall features of OW, it wins hands down. Also, consider the source. Omnigroup is a very responsive and responsible member of the Apple Development Community. They care about Mac OS X second only to Apple. They read and respond to these boards and really are working on getting something out the door. Mozilla is nice.. but come on... it is been what, 2 years? and it is still on 0.9.8.

BZ
(BTW, just bought both OW and OG)

[cacarr1]

OmniWeb! Use the sneaky peeks. I'm using 37 now and it is getting alot better. Virtually any site you'd want to access you can with OmniWeb. Mozilla is ok (though I have to say I was really disappointed when I realised that it is essentially Netscape). Just my two cents. Chris

[JKT]

The thing I don't really understand is why you have to use just one browser... I currently have four and use one most of the time (OmniWeb), another occasionally (iCab), and the last two very, very occasionally (IE in Classic, and Mozilla).

I prefer OmniWeb and iCab because of:

appearance and UI (OW, iCab is not too good in appearance or UI),
speed (OW and iCab are plenty fast enough, if not the "fastest"),
and more importantly than both, customisability in terms of Cookie handling, ad blocking, javscript filtering, etc.

Moz is quite speedy, but is not good options wise AFAI can tell.

IE is OKish prefs wise, but not for ad blocking etc. I only keep it to access iTools and it will be deleted as soon as OW or iCab or Moz can access and use iTools online correctly.

[Guy Incognito]

Fastest browser? Mozilla!
Best browser? OmniWeb!
Most compliant browser? Mozilla!
Most featureful browser? OmniWeb!
Prettiest browser? OmniWeb!
Ugliest browser? Mozilla!
Worst browser? IE!
Most stable browser? None!
Browser with the most potential? Tie between OmniWeb and cocoa Mozilla project!

[JKT]

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
<STRONG>Fastest browser? Mozilla!
Best browser? OmniWeb!
Most compliant browser? Mozilla!
Most featureful browser? OmniWeb!
Prettiest browser? OmniWeb!
Ugliest browser? Mozilla!
Worst browser? IE!
Most stable browser? None!
Browser with the most potential? Tie between OmniWeb and cocoa Mozilla project!</STRONG>

Actually, FWIW, iCab is by far the most featureful browser.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by iSore:
<STRONG>


Am I alone in finding comments to this effect bizarre?

Mozilla's UI lags, I agree. OmniWeb's preferences window is certainly quicker to access... but exactly how much time does one spend setting preferences (or viewing one's history) relative to using a browser to browse?

What am I missing here?</STRONG>

While it is true that you don't open the preferences that often, some of us do open lots of windows. When I browse the Internet, I am always opening new windows, and when you try to open new window or switch between two already open windows, you notice just how slow Mozilla is. It's painful, actually.

[jblakeh1]

Sigh. I use Explorer, and here is why.

I read this thread, thought, 'hey, I should switch...I think I'll try Mozilla for a week.'

Then I read about the Mach-O build, and decided to download it, and Mozilla can't download a .gz file from the Mozilla site! I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation, something I could have done to download the file correctly.. but this stuff should just work.

I love the cocoa rendering in Omniweb. They just can't seem to get the javascript ironed out.

Bottom line... I'd love to ditch IE... compatibility is a lot more important than a saved second here or there... If you can't see the content, what's the point?

[Group51]

I love the sheets in Moz 0.9.8. It uses sheets for everything.

And tabbed browsing, and speeeeeed!

[Group51]

Originally posted by Group51:
<STRONG>I love the sheets in Moz 0.9.8. It uses sheets for everything.

And tabbed browsing, and speeeeeed!</STRONG>

I should say of course, like others I also have OW and IE on my drive. But I haven't come across an incompatible site yet in 0.9.8.

[asxless]

Originally posted by Group51:
<STRONG>But I haven't come across an incompatible site yet in 0.9.8.</STRONG>

You need to visit the BMW site more often http://www.bmwusa.com/

(wait for the second page to automatically load)

asxless in iLnad

[starfleetX]

For those of you complaining about Mozilla's UI and the "slowness" of the UI, please check out Chimera. I'm building a copy now and will share my experiences when it's finished compiling.

Here's a snapshot from Chimera's web page:

[CharlesS]

That looks pretty cool. I may have to download and take a shot at compiling that sometime. Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now...

[The Evener]

I think in the end you'll have to download iCab, Opera, OmniWeb, and Mozilla to decide for yourself. All the aforementioned browsers have their passionate advocates, although in this thread it's been mostly between OmniWeb and Mozilla. I use OmniWeb myself, and am really pleased with the 4.1 sneakypeeks. OmniWeb is faster than IE in many regards (rendering, downloading files) although there are a few rough patches in terms of CSS. And as for the droll comments about "pretty" interfaces, that's one thing I appreciate about OmniWeb -- the thought about an overall pleasant browsing experience, both technically and aesthetically. I mean, isn't "pretty" one of the reasons why people like Macs ie. because they're not dime-a-dozen Dell boxes?

Another reason why I like OmniWeb is that the developers are active participants on threads about the browser, and they have a great (and much appreciated) sense of humour. Just check out the "friendly" reminders about licenses when you try OmniWeb out -- definitely out of the ordinary -- the "fries-and-toe-stubbing" parable is one of my favourite.

[ndptal85]

I don't think anyone should downplay the commitment of the Mozilla team to EVERY OS thats out there today. Mozilla while it may be a big bloated for some, is one of the only browsers that will run on any OS you come across. It also holds its own for features with OmniWeb. Right now Mozilla just took the top spot from OmniWeb in my book. When OmniWeb can speed itself up it will be tops once again. ;P

[Hudson]

I find OmniWeb to have a lot going for it. Agree, the aesthetics shouldn't be overlooked as an important feature. I hope Omni can fix all of the problems with mouse-overs. IMHO, this is about the only thing that holds this browser back. It's much more important that some of these wish-list things like tabbed browsing, etc.

[JKT]

Can anyone tell me if Moz for X will work with the iTools website at all. I also find that it doesn't display homepage slideshows either... is this a known issue due for fixing, or is there a pref setting that I need to change? TIA

It is currently the only reason I keep IE around (OmiWeb and iCab don't work with iTools either)...

[ctt1wbw]

Originally posted by Maneki Neko:
<STRONG>I really, really love OmniWeb. I registered it shortly after downloading. I do wish it was faster though.

If Opera can ever release something that's as good as Opera 6 for Windows, but with a mac look and feel, then I may just switch to that.</STRONG>

I love the latest OW build, Sneeky Peak 39. It's the fastest OW by far, but when is the Omnigroup going to use the same type of cache system that the other browsers use? Starting the browser with no cache every time reeeeeally gets old. This is why OW is slower than the rest.

[asxless]

Originally posted by Hudson:
<STRONG>... I hope Omni can fix all of the problems with mouse-overs. IMHO, this is about the only thing that holds this browser back. It's much more important that some of these wish-list things like tabbed browsing, etc.</STRONG>

I agree completely. I have licensed OW 4.x and had been happily using the OW SPs of 4.1. I'd even gotten used to the OW 'pace' of browsing. But OW just doesn't work with several financial sites I need because of problems with JavaScript mouse-overs, etc. Now Omni seems intent on moving on to OW 5. So I'm back looking for a "main browser" that will work with all of the sites I regularly visit. Mozilla looks very promising. It is more compatible and a lot faster. Now it just needs to be a bit nicer to look at

asxless in iLand

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: asxless ]