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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > I bought the new iMac 1ghz!

I bought the new iMac 1ghz! (Page 4)
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WJMoore
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Mar 26, 2003, 10:50 PM
 
It arrived... finally!!! After yet another delay due to a stuff up by the courier I finally received my iMac last night. It's fantastic! The screen is awesome, its really fast and really quiet. Now I have to get it all setup just how I like. I can't believe how much I had configured my iBook to my likeing.

Wes
     
Paul Stephen C.
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Mar 28, 2003, 08:12 PM
 
Got my new 17" 1GHz iMac after waiting and waiting and watching the rumour sites for the update - boy was it worth it!

I was puzzled by the fact that you can only add RAM to one slot, so you can only up it to 768Mb without messing the warranty.

So I bit the bullet and paid up for the 1Gb Apple RAM (a bit pricey, but I was eligible for the really good UK Higher Education discount which mare than paid for the extra RAM). I suppose this means I have a non-upgradeable iMac now, but what the hell - it replaced my 1995 Power PC Performa which I was using until the day I got the iMac, so I'm not worried about the useful life of my new mac!

I kinda liked the all in one Performa - it played TV in a window, played CDs, ran without a problem for 7/8 years. It cost about 1700 (about $2500) - a lot of cash at the time; but my mate's PC which he bought around the same time for half the price was replaced 3 years later (and again since), so I reckon I won out in the end. The Performa's heading for the charity shop, and I reckon it's got a few useful years left yet. 1995 PC anyone? (hee hee!).

Anyway, back to the new iMac. As other here have said, the packaging is so well done, it's treat to unpack it. Reminds you of Christams as a kid! Everything is so lovingly packaged, and it's ludicrously easy to set up. I got broadband connectivity at the same time, via Demon, and they were great helping me through the teething problems (due to my lack of technical understanding, I should add!). Thanks Demon!

As for MacOsX - it took no time at all to get used to it. It's the Os that does credit to the iMac design - beautiful, easy, rock-solid. (Although a word of warning to those using the internal modem - Jaguar, not 10.1, can play havoc with it - keeps breaking connections and hanging. Apple are seemingly turning a blind eye to this problem, but it's real enough - see Macintouch.com for threads on this).

iLife is fabulous (but remember to use CDRs, not CDRWs) to burn those compilation CDs. Not all CD players se CDRWs. I didn't read Mac Help before I first tried and had to post elsewhere here for help!

The 17" screen is great for playing DVDs, and the speakers are impressive for their size. I'm considering the iSub, but I'm not sure I really need it. Maybe a good set of small jack 'phones (I found the big-to-small jack converters dodn't work with my Sennheisers).

Does anyone know where you can get the speaker grilles that you get when you buy the speakers separately?

All in all I am very very pleased! If it has half the useful life of my last mac, I'll be even more pleased.

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Johnnyboysmac
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Mar 30, 2003, 10:59 PM
 
Hello again All,

Well, it's been a while since I wrote in, but at least perhaps you've been spared one of my lengthy diatribes on the virtues of the Mac for a little while

At the moment, I feel somewhere between excited, anxious, and like it's coming Xmas and hoping Santa doesn't get stuck coming down the chimmney

Delivery of the New Imacs seems slow here, and only one of the 3 main city Apple resellers as they are called here in OZ, has demo stock on the floor.

So for my second visit/tryout of the Imac v's the 1ghz tower, I ended up going back to the store where I was able to first try them out a couple of weeks back. Fortunately this time it was quite a bit quieter in the store, but still no Internet connection available unfortunately.

OK, as regards noise - definitely the Imac is the quietest machine. The tower is better in it's present reincarnation than the orginal MDD's, but almost impossible to judge just how noisy it would be in a quiet home environment, when you're trying to compare in the comparitively noisy shop situation, as Simon pointed out.

However there's no doubt in my mind as to the advantage for home use of the Imac here, and indeed IMHO over virtually all other computers, PC or otherwise I've ever 'heard/auditioned'.

Speed/snappiness, seemed about the same, both machines running 256mb of Ram - maybe a hairs breadth, 1/2 second or so advantage to the tower, which one would expect with the L3 cache. But nothing noticeable as far as I could tell in those 'everyday' tasks that I would initially be running at least at first.

On one hand, I would absolutely love a dual processor tower, and one of the new 20" displays; they're absolutely sensational, however besides not being able to afford it, I also recognise that I simply don't have the skills/applications etc that would require such processing power, and display real estate - although more is usually always nicer!

Also I worry slightly still, particularly with Panther on the horizon, and mindful of what happened when Quartz extreme was launched, as to the lack of upgradability with the Imac re the video chip, and future compatibility with forthcoming OS features.

On the other hand, the lack of PCI slots doesn't concern me, and of course I can upgrade the two other and most important items, Ram and HD.

And then there's some issues I raised in an earlier post re fear being a switcher from the Windoze world etc, and the 'disposability' of the Imac, albeit tempered with the knowledge that no computer, even a tower, endures for ever re keeping abreast of software developments - a harsh fact of $$ life in computing terms unfortunately.

Anyway, as I mentioned at the beginning, I went, I saw, and it conquered.

Something white, round and rectangular, will shortly be entering my life!

>Johnboi picks himself up off the floor<

Man, I'm soooo, excited.

Yup, I've FINALLY done it, and ORDERED the 17" Imac - Gasp!

Goodness, I've been such a huge procrastinator over this, so I'm just so happy to have finally made a very well informed, and balanced decision.

I would very much like to thank all of you who have written in, and provided so much knowledge in this thread about the various aspects of the Imac, particularly as regards performance/purchase issues etc - your help has been indispensable, and much appreciated.

As pretty much all the resellers that I approached here, would simply pull a standard machine out of a box, and disassemble it to fit the extra Ram I wanted, and the Bluetooth module, I elected to go with a BTO with the Apple Store, as the service seemed excellent, and as third party disassembly of a new machine doesn't sit comfortably with me. Hey, when I've paid for it, it's MY MAC, and keep your sticky little fingers off it! LOL!

So, I'm getting it with just the one non-user accesible slot filled with 512Mb Ram, and the internal bluetooth module. If I had the $$, I would've liked maybe even more Ram, but was already exceeding my budget as it was; however I can now upgrade the Ram further, or fit the Airport Extreme card at a later date, without having to return to a dealer, which I would prefer.

I'm crossing my fingers re dead pixels, and I also took out the Apple Care Extended Warranty, partly because of the LCD, and to give that little bit of extra peace of mind.

With Panther coming, I hope I don't find myself in a position where something could occur, like Quartz Extreme, ah, enhanced or something, that would like require a video card/chip better than whats in the Imac, as that's a gamble I take by not going with a tower, but I would think it unlikely, whilst not impossible.

By buying now, I may have to pay for an upgrade to Panther, but on the other hand, I'll have 4-6mnths use out of a new machine, which is worth it IMHO. If, and most likely, a revision/upgrade comes out with the IMac in July, well, that's inevitable anyway, and this machine is fast enough for me now, and thats the main thing. The future can look after itself, and besides, something tells me that whilst this is my first ever Mac, it's not going to be my last!

At the end of the day, I'm getting a very quiet, stylish, and capable machine for the home, with a great display. I spent quite a bit of time just playing with it in the store, and the display is something else. Given the small performance difference between the 17" Imac and 1ghz tower, but around $1300 difference in price with superdrive, speakers, microphone, Applecare, and 17" 4;3 LCD display, and thus going beyond my budget; compromising to save $$ by going with a 4:3 aspect ratio CRT display was just a turnoff compared to the 17" widescreen on the IMAC.

Finally, I do just once again, want to thank all those who have written in earlier, and helped so much in my getting my first ever Mac - another switcher and a nail in the MS world.

It's been a long and winding road, but it's coming soooooon.

Take Care All,

Johnboi
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Simon
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Mar 31, 2003, 04:59 AM
 
Johnboi, congrats on that purchase!

I think it was quite prospective to put in the 512 MB DIMM in the non-accessible slot and to have the Bluetooth module installed.

I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with this iMac.

Hope it arrives soon. Good luck!
     
Johnnyboysmac
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Mar 31, 2003, 10:07 AM
 
Heheh, thanks Simon, I appreciate the congrats, goodness it took me a long time to get there re a purchasing decision.

Looking back I very much appreciate a number of very detailed posts you made on this thread, along with others, that was just so informative and valuable, and so very much appreciated.

The time quote for delivery is around 7 - 10 days, so I'm going to have to be patient! Still, I'm confident things are going to be really cool with this machine.

In a sense it seems a bit silly of myself looking back, of all the deliberations re what to buy etc, as it is 'only' a computer.

However, as I've discovered after having my first computer, a PC in the house now for 15 odd months, they quickly become quite indispensable, but also in the day to day usuage can be either a blessing, or a very time consuming curse. (Well at least if it's a troublesome PC in a 'bad mood' )

So this is going to be a new journey of discovery, with/on a new machine. Computing has become a part of my daily life, so how I relate to it (if one does indeed 'relate' to an inanimate object such as a computer) is very important re my day to day level of frustration, stress and irritation.

So it's been quite an important decision, notwithstanding that it's also a not inconsiderable outlay of money.

I'm counting down the days!

Hows things going with your new machine? Miss the 867 at all? I hope you're still as delighted with the Imac as you were when you bought it a month or so ago.

I'll be posting again to let you all know how it goes re my new and forthcoming 'baby'

Cheers,

Johnboi....

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Simon
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Mar 31, 2003, 10:45 AM
 
Originally posted by Johnnyboysmac:
Looking back I very much appreciate a number of very detailed posts you made on this thread, along with others, that was just so informative and valuable, and so very much appreciated.
No problem. I'm glad it helped.

Hows things going with your new machine? Miss the 867 at all? I hope you're still as delighted with the Imac as you were when you bought it a month or so ago.
Everything is still perfect. The 1GHz iMac is one hell of terrific computer! Still love it.

I think it is probably one of the best Macs I have ever owned - and I have owned over 15 since 1984 so I do have some experience to compare this machine with.

I'm not missing the dual 867 one bit. Every time I come into my work room at home, sit down in my reading chair, start reading a book and then suddenly realize that I can't hear my iMac at all I realize what a godsend this iMac is. And honestly, the only time I have felt the difference to the dual PowerMac is when I open 20 bookmarked websites out of Camino 0.7 at once (you know the bookmark that consists of a list of other bookmarks that open each in a tab of their own). On the dual PowerMac this gave only a tiny lag, on my iMac I get a half-second lag - so I can feel a difference but all in all it's no issue.

However, having a powerful iMac with a large and very bright screen is an issue. I love it!
     
Johnnyboysmac
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Mar 31, 2003, 09:57 PM
 
Great Stuff Simon!

Really pleased to hear that it's still really working for you - I know how much you went into things a bit like me before you got your original 867 PM dualie, and the disappointment you went through afterwards, especially with the noise issues at the time.

So I'm really pleased for you that you've found the Imac to be so satisfying - and especially now that you've had it a while to get used to, which is when any irritations are likely to show up. The comparitve speed seems brilliant between your previous Tower and your new Imac, - I hope I'll get some slight performance boost with the little bit of extra Ram I've been able to afford to put into the one I've ordered.

I'm soooo looking forward to getting mine!

BTW, as a matter of comparitive interest, looking at your last comment about the large and bright screen, how do you find the 17" widescreen now that you've got used to it, compared to the 17" 4:3 aspect ratio Apple Studio display that I think you were running before with the dualie?

I'm thinking shape/aspect ratio, desktop real estate, clarity of text, colour etc. I'm curious as to your thoughts re pros & cons, as you've used/lived with both displays in the 'real world' at home on a day to day basis for many different apps. etc.

Once again, great to hear that things are going so well for you with the new machine, after the hassles of the tower/noise etc that you unfortunately went through.

Cheers,

Johboi..

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Simon
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Apr 1, 2003, 04:35 AM
 
Originally posted by Johnnyboysmac:
BTW, as a matter of comparitive interest, looking at your last comment about the large and bright screen, how do you find the 17" widescreen now that you've got used to it, compared to the 17" 4:3 aspect ratio Apple Studio display that I think you were running before with the dualie?

I'm thinking shape/aspect ratio, desktop real estate, clarity of text, colour etc. I'm curious as to your thoughts re pros & cons, as you've used/lived with both displays in the 'real world' at home on a day to day basis for many different apps. etc.
OK, this is actually an area where I have noticed differences, so beware, I'm probably going to get lengthy here.

But, before I start I have to say that I'm not an artist or graphics user so I'm for sure not an expert on color issues or for screen quality. Mostly I read (or write) on my screen, so mainly I want it to be sharp and have good contrast.

Call me crazy, but I think the iMac's screen is even brighter than the 17" Apple StudioDisplay I had. The StudioDisplay was already so bright I had to turn it down when I got it (I came form a CRT) because I couldn't stand the brightness. I got used to the brightness of the StudioDisplay after a couple of days of use, but when I got the iMac I had to tune it down too. The screen is very very bright. I think this is great. I mean, I can always tune it down, but after months and months of use, I'll probably be glad if the screen has some extra brightness I can get back (or is this only a CRT problem?)...

For me the main difference is the vertical viewing angle respectively the contrast. The iMac's screen has to be tilted the right way otherwise the top half is much darker than the lower half. This makes it very hard to see contrast on the lower half. Here's an example problem I ran into:

I was looking for an expression in a code I was editing. I searched for the expression and the window scrolled down to where the expression was. Now, my selection color is the default light blue, but as hard as I looked I couldn't find any selected area of my code. I thought that maybe the search hadn't found any occurance and that it had just ended w/o any message. But that seemed kind of fishy to me because I had heard no warning tone, there was no dialog window telling me that the search had not produced any valid results and why would the document be scrolled to any place in the middle if there was no occurance anyway? That was when it occured to me that maybe I wasn't seeing the selection even thought it was there. I started moving my head up and down for my view to go from above to below the screen. And suddenly, when I was already looking at the screen from below I saw the expression that was selected in standard light blue. So it was actually there, but I didn't see it.

The solution to the problem is that I now always check that the screen is tilted by the proper angle for me to see enough contrast on the upper as well as on the lower half of the screen. If it is wrong I realize at once because the bottom half seems just "too white". I have no idea where this comes from. Is it just because the vertical viewing angle is very narrow or is it because the lighting of the screen is actually different depending on what vertical area of the screen you are looking at? Does the screen have multiple backlights? Is it possible that the top backlight could be less powerful than the bottom one? I have no idea. Maybe a screen expert here could give us some insight.

Anyway, I think the problem isn't really a large issue, because other than with the StudioDisplay the iMac gives me almost any desireable screen orientation. I just sit in front in the morning, adjust the screen to its proper hight and angle and ready it is. It would be an issue with the StudioDisplay because that screen can almost not be adjusted (its tilted stand is a joke compared to the iMacs arm when it comes to changing position/angle). Since the iMac allows me to change the screen's position and angle so easily, I have no trouble finding the right setting in very short time. And actually I really do it all the time because I share the computer with my girlfriend. She's smaller than I am and she has a different office chair she uses to work in front of the computer. Each time we arrive at the iMac after the other one of us was there, we start changing the screen position/angle first. But since it works so nicely, it's certainly a feature and not a flaw. We both appreciate being able to set it the way we want it to be for ourselves.

Resolution: Simple math tells me the iMac has 99.89 dpi whereas the StudioDisplay had "only" 96.42 dpi. Well, I always thought WYSIWYG required 72 dpi on a Mac...
It makes the images very sharp and I really like being able to see such large areas on my screen, but I wouldn't want a higher resolution than the 100dpi I have now. If I have an AppleWorks letter with Times 12pt font I really have trouble reading the text comfortably. And where is the benefit of the high res and the many pixels if I have to blow up my text to 130% just to be able to read it...

Finally, the aspect ratio and the resolution. I was never quite happy with the ratio of the StudioDisplay. I think 4:3 has some advantages over 16:10, but I was never able to understand why we had to have 5:4 additionally. I know not only Apple's 17" TFTs use 5:4, but nevertheless I think having two aspect ratios is more than enough. Having three just makes no sense to me. If I got a desktop background it was mostly either 16:10 for the PowerBook/iMac17/CinemaDisplay or 4:3 for the rest, but it was never 5:4. The same with digital camera pictures. Never 5:4. That way it made me either live with borders or streched images. Short: I hated 5:4. However, having an additional 14720 pixels is never bad, is it?

On the other hand, I was worried about the iMac's wide aspect at first. Of course I watch DVDs (and for movies it's really perfect) but I always thought that I was lacking vertical screen space (since I maily read/write and this stuff normally has the format of a sheet of paper) and not horizontal space. So I was afraid that I'd worry much more about the lost 124 vertical pixels than I'd enjoy the additional 160 horizontal pixels. As a matter of fact I was wrong. The screen is wonderful. Even when I'm writing a letter I benefit. I can see almost the entire page at once, but beside the letter I can also have a browser window or a Mail.app message window. That comes in very handy from to time. Or when I'm downloading stuff from the net I can have my browser or terminal window open and find/download stuff and beside that I can have Finder or terminal windows open to navigate to the downloads and unpack/move the files. I really like the aspect a lot now that I have got used to it.

So, all in all I really love my screen. It's big, it's bright and it's flat. I think it's just perfect for me and when I think of the iMac's price tag I am amazed that Apple was able to use these TFTs at that at such a low price point.
( Last edited by Simon; Apr 1, 2003 at 05:01 AM. )
     
Johnnyboysmac
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Apr 1, 2003, 10:44 PM
 
Mmmmmmnnnnn, Simon, I know I really appreciate your lengthy, detailed, and most insightful observations of the screen differences, as I'm sure others will be most interested to read as well, - and may I also add that its probably the best comparitve write up that I've read, and a credit to you.

Just goes to show the value of forums like this for thoughtful observation and discussion, resulting in a far greater appreciation of hardware than can be gleaned from any commercial magazine/source IMHO.

Mind you, of course that makes me even more excited about my forthcoming Imac, and even more content about my choice of going with the Imac, and not the entry level tower with the 17" Studio display.

I didn't realise the 17" displays were 5:4, and I fully appreciate the annoyance of having to put up with either borders or stretching out images for display purposes.

As to the differing contrast as your viewing angle changes with the Imac display. Frankly, I'd only be guessing, but my thoughts are that it would be to do with the polarizing layer on the display itself. I'm not sure if it's an external coating ie on the 'face' of the display, or whether it's internal, as in a part of the 'sandwich' construction of an LCD panel.

Certainly the specs stated 160x160 for the first generation studio display, and I note they now claim 170x170 as regards the horizontal and vertical viewing angles. Whereas the Imac is 90 vertical, by 120 horizontal. I can't see there being any difference in illumination, from top to bottom as regards the backlighting, but rather that as you move your eye/viewpoint from top to bottom, that the angle of view re the polarising layer will change, and hence the contrast.

Others may know more about this than I, and it would be interesting to hear of what the technicalities are if any one knows more.

However, thankfully, it appears this minor cost/shortcoming is ameliorated by virtue of being able to adjust the angle /height of the display to virtually any required position as you mention.

Working with a widescreen will be a first for me, and its great to hear how satisfying it is for you, and I espcially identify with being able to easily have two open windows side by side.

Oooooooh, I'm just counting down the days!

Cheers,

Johnboi.....
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Simon
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Apr 2, 2003, 04:47 AM
 
Originally posted by Johnnyboysmac:
Mmmmmmnnnnn, Simon, I know I really appreciate your lengthy, detailed, and most insightful observations of the screen differences, as I'm sure others will be most interested to read as well, - and may I also add that its probably the best comparitve write up that I've read, and a credit to you.
Thanks Johnboi.

I didn't realise the 17" displays were 5:4, and I fully appreciate the annoyance of having to put up with either borders or stretching out images for display purposes.
Yep. <feiss>It's a bummer.</feiss>

1280x1024 is 5:4 but all the other (non-widescreen) resolutions like 1600x1200, 1024x768, 800x600, 640x480 are 4:3. No idea why they changed it for the 17" TFTs...

As to the differing contrast as your viewing angle changes with the Imac display. Frankly, I'd only be guessing, but my thoughts are that it would be to do with the polarizing layer on the display itself. I'm not sure if it's an external coating ie on the 'face' of the display, or whether it's internal, as in a part of the 'sandwich' construction of an LCD panel.
...
I can't see there being any difference in illumination, from top to bottom as regards the backlighting, but rather that as you move your eye/viewpoint from top to bottom, that the angle of view re the polarising layer will change, and hence the contrast.
The strange thing is that to get the best contrast on the whole screen I adjust it to a somewhat strange angle, because it's not as if a ray from my eye to the center of the screen would hit the screen perpendicularly. It's more like I would be looking at the screen from below. I can't describe it very well... You get what I mean here?

Oooooooh, I'm just counting down the days!
I know what the pain feels like.
Try to stay firm and rest cool. The iMac will reward you for your agony.
     
Simon
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Apr 2, 2003, 04:52 AM
 
BTW, since I have come to love this 1GHz iMac so much I am seriously thinking about buying a second one for my office.

The lab I work at respectively the university won't buy me a fourth computer. I.e. they won't buy me this iMac.

But I was thinking about buying it myself to replace my P4 1.6GHz running RedHat Linux.

Now, should I buy a second iMac or a 12" PowerBook (that I could hook up to a large screen in my office) that I could also take with me on trips?

So here we go again.
     
mathew_m
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Apr 2, 2003, 10:55 PM
 
I too just recieved my new iMac 17. My greatest fear, dead pixels was soon put to rest with only 1 on the very bottom, far right hand side. So far so good....

My first mac was a powerbook g4 400 which I like a lot but it just isn't what I need. The 17" iMac I believe is the most perfect Mac yet! It trully best represents what Apple is all about. All the software you need (to get started), beautiful screen, delightful design, superdrive, hearty processor and best of all quiet. It's a computer everybody loves. Too bad most people are afraid of switching.
     
rickywck
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Apr 3, 2003, 06:08 AM
 
I got my iMac 17" for 5 days. While it's a great machine imo, unfortunately my LCD has one blue stuck pixel at the upper left part of the screen, which is quite noticeable when playing DVD ...

Fortunately, the blue stuck pixel went away after some massaging ... I really can't imagine that this can work, but it does work !
     
mathew_m
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Apr 3, 2003, 12:11 PM
 
Rick,

I have a stuck blue pixel on my powerbook that I could never rub away. Congrats to you. I'd rather have a dead one than stuck. It's terrible trying to watch a dvd with a distracting blue or god forbid red dot distracting you.
     
WJMoore
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Apr 4, 2003, 02:19 AM
 
Originally posted by mathew_m:
Rick,

I have a stuck blue pixel on my powerbook that I could never rub away. Congrats to you. I'd rather have a dead one than stuck. It's terrible trying to watch a dvd with a distracting blue or god forbid red dot distracting you.
Ya mine has a magenta stuck pixel in the middle of the bottom right quadrant of the screen. It is only visible when that pixel is trying to show a dark color, white is fine (for obvious technical reasons)... Oh well.

Wesley
     
Paul Stephen C.
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Apr 7, 2003, 05:53 PM
 
A few people have been talking about stuck or dead pixels recently. It was a fear of mine that I'd get a few on my new iMac, but thankfully I got lucky.

I did get one on my work iMac, but a few seconds of (quite firm) massaging did the trick.

A few questions:

1. If you have revived a pixel, is it likely to get stuck or die sooner than the rest?

2. How many faulty pixels before Applecare warranty kicks in?

3. What is the useful life expectancy of flat screens?

I do undertand that the affordability of flat panel iMacs is based on a reliability compromise with regard to pixels, but I'd hate to think I be getting irritated by pixels dying off after a couple of years or so. I'm used to my Macs havind a useful life of, say 4/5 years.
     
tonbo0422
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Apr 8, 2003, 06:56 PM
 
Hate to rain on anyone's parade--sounds like everyone's having a great time with their new boxes (semi-ovals?) but my new iMac 1GB 17" has been a major disappointment.

Hope someone can make it all better!

Number one, I guess my biggest mistake was ordering it with the 256MB RAM. I figured I could just replace that with a 1GB kit--but more on that later.

First thing I noticed was the awful sluggishness. It was waaaay slower than even my G4 733 in the next room. I later found out from macosx.com that just the system uses 300MB of RAM--so forget any memory-intensive programs on top of that.

Then I find out you can only put a max of 512MB RAM in by yourself--as a graphic designer, that will not work. (I'm hoping someone will point me to a detailed description of how to install a 512MB module in the Apple slot.) Apple charges twice the street price for the RAM if you order it up front (It's too late for that for me, anyway.)

Then there's the matter of not being able to boot in OS 9 . . . I know there's Classic, but using that is like using an SE.

I love the screen and the small footprint but that is not going to earn me back the money I spent for it.

Any suggestions?
     
Krusty
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Apr 8, 2003, 07:14 PM
 
Originally posted by tonbo0422:


I later found out from macosx.com that just the system uses 300MB of RAM--so forget any memory-intensive programs on top of that.

Then I find out you can only put a max of 512MB RAM in by yourself--as a graphic designer, that will not work.

Then there's the matter of not being able to boot in OS 9 . . . I know there's Classic, but using that is like using an SE.

I love the screen and the small footprint but that is not going to earn me back the money I spent for it.

Any suggestions?
Sorry, more questions than suggestions:

What's this 300mb system memory usage ? I've not heard of that one.

Yeah, the ram limit is way too low for "high end" prosumer machine in 2003. Though I hear 1024mb chips are slowly making their way in to production .. so you may be able to get one of those in a few months.

I've heard of hackarounds to get OS 9 to boot on new machines .. don't give up all hope on that yet.

Suggestions: Sell the computer, take the couple hundred dollar hit and buy what you really need (meaning 512mb in the inaccessible slot OR a completely different machine). If the computer simply doesn't work for you .. it simply doesn't work for you. The quicker you re-sell (or send back, if the vendor allows returns) the greater amount you will recover.
     
tonbo0422
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Apr 8, 2003, 07:32 PM
 
Yeah, I thought of selling, but only for 2.3 seconds. I think it's just a question of this computer being so new, that the hacks haven't yet seen more light of day.

Ramjet.com provided a link to defeating the Apple slot (and offers a 1GB kit for 1/2 the price of Apple) but I guess Apple leaned on them and they removed the interesting part.

Apparently, there is a approved-techs-only page on the Apple TIL that tells how to hack around the OS X-boot problem but I guess we'll have to wait for that to surface elsewhere as well.
     
Krusty
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Apr 8, 2003, 07:54 PM
 
Originally posted by tonbo0422:

Apparently, there is a approved-techs-only page on the Apple TIL that tells how to hack around the OS X-boot problem but I guess we'll have to wait for that to surface elsewhere as well.
Good luck .. and if I remember correctly, those TILs made it around these forums last year, after the FP iMacs were first intro'd .. so, search the forums and elsewhere. I bet they can be found.

Also, keep your eyes peeled for the 1gb memory sticks. A company in Germany has apparently started producing them already (for $800 !! right now). It really bugs me that Apple makes one slot of the FP iMac inaccessible (without voiding the warranty). "Lower" machines like the eMac and iMac G3 are actually easier to bring to 1gb of ram than the "prosumer" FP iMac. What a shame
     
tonbo0422
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Apr 8, 2003, 11:53 PM
 
I've noticed one thing about this machine: if I'm copying a file over the Airport network from my G4733 onto the iMac, and I try to do anything else--say, launch Internet Explorer--I get the dreaded Colored Whirly Wheel of Death, which just keeps whirling . . . and whirling . . . while the transfer grinds to a halt . . . and the CWWD whirls . . . and when I try to force-quit the Finder, I get "Force 'null' to quit?" ad infinitum . . .
     
vpatn
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Apr 9, 2003, 09:34 AM
 
Originally posted by tonbo0422:
I've noticed one thing about this machine: if I'm copying a file over the Airport network from my G4733 onto the iMac, and I try to do anything else--say, launch Internet Explorer--I get the dreaded Colored Whirly Wheel of Death, which just keeps whirling . . . and whirling . . . while the transfer grinds to a halt . . . and the CWWD whirls . . . and when I try to force-quit the Finder, I get "Force 'null' to quit?" ad infinitum . . .
are you still running with 256MB ram? if so, just plop in a 512Mb in the slot for now,and that will get you up to 768MB, and you shoudlnt have that problem, memory is cheap. if you already have that much, then there must be something else causing it.
     
carmos1
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Apr 9, 2003, 08:03 PM
 
Despite having the due amount, I was not able to achieve mine. It is not available in Brazil, if I import, it becomes over US$3200,00. So, I'd rather find a way to pay less and safer. It's too bulky and I fear getting a nice iMac box stuffed with litter. Any clues? Please, let me know.. Jorge (french pronounciation, please, never spanish)
     
Simon
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Apr 10, 2003, 10:14 AM
 
Tonbo, I'm sorry you're not happy with your new iMac and I really don't want to be a sucker here, but I think you bought without having informed yourself enough. I don't think it's the iMac's fault you're not satisfied.

Originally posted by tonbo0422:
Number one, I guess my biggest mistake was ordering it with the 256MB RAM. I figured I could just replace that with a 1GB kit--but more on that later.
Yep, that was your mistake. Look at all the threads on this forum about the new iMacs, actually look at any thread on this forum about any new Mac. The first thing experienced users tell everybody is "get enough RAM". The base 256 is far from enough.

Anybody here would have told you to get at least 512. Running Jaguar on this new iMac with only 256MB RAM is choking the whole machine. No wonder you get a performance hit.

Solution: Get an additional 512MB DDR SO-DIMM. They're cheap and you can install them easily by yourself without voiding any warranty. Most dealers or shops will have them in stock, no need to order or wait. It won't cost you a lot and your machine will feel much much better in less than 10 minutes.

First thing I noticed was the awful sluggishness. It was waaaay slower than even my G4 733 in the next room. I later found out from macosx.com that just the system uses 300MB of RAM--so forget any memory-intensive programs on top of that.
Welcome to OS X. No way you could run Jaguar with just the base 256MB RAM. Again, go to 768 and you'll feel a lot better already.

I checked the xbench site just to be sure. No way in the world that the G4 733 would feel so much faster than the iMac. The 733s get xbench scores around 70-77. My iMac scores >84. So, just get the additional RAM and you'll be fine.

Then I find out you can only put a max of 512MB RAM in by yourself--as a graphic designer, that will not work. (I'm hoping someone will point me to a detailed description of how to install a 512MB module in the Apple slot.) Apple charges twice the street price for the RAM if you order it up front (It's too late for that for me, anyway.)
Yep. There are two slots. Only one is accessible by the user. Since today's DDR SO-DIMMs almost all (somebody already mentioned the 1GB DIMMs from the german company) max at 512. So yes, you can only insert a 512MB DIMM, but since the bottom (non-user accessible) slot is filled with at least 256 you at least get 768. If you need 1GB you would have had to order it with 512 installed in the non-accessible slot which you did not.

Again, if you would have read these threads or looked at the Apple pages carefully, you would have known that. If 768 is not enough, either bring the iMac to the dealer and have him install 512 in the lower slot (will not void warranty, but will cost more) or wait til the german company starts shipping those 1GB DIMMs.

Then there's the matter of not being able to boot in OS 9 . . . I know there's Classic, but using that is like using an SE.
Again, your fault. Apple clearly says the new 17" iMac only boots 10.2 and there are enough threads on the forum here and throughout the web that wuld have told you so. It's not like you had been deceived. You failed to inform yourself. BTW, Classic is as slow as on an SE because agaoin you only have 256MB RAM. It will feel better with 768MB, but it will still not be as fast as native OS 9 probably.

If you rely on OS 9 bootability forget the new 17" iMac. The new 15" iMac will work because it has the same board as the old 15" iMac so it is supported by OS 9. But the new 17" has a redesigned board and thus requires new system software support and this is what Apple won't spend any effort on as they have clearly stated countless times already.

Let me repeat, I'm not trying to be a jerk here and I'm not trying to diss you, but jee wiz, you wouldn't have been disappointed at all if you would have got some info before you purchased. It's basically all on http://www.apple.com/imac/ so why didn't you just read it?

Anyhow, make the best out of it. Get the additional 512MB RAM, that should make your iMac feel at least twice as fast respectively it shouldn't lag anymore. And try to see if you really need to boot in 9 or if you can't just update software/hardware so that it will work with Jaguar. The way I see it, you would loose a whole lot of money if you try to sell it now.

Post if you need more help. Good luck.
( Last edited by Simon; Apr 10, 2003 at 10:22 AM. )
     
Johnnyboysmac
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Apr 15, 2003, 11:48 PM
 
Whats rectangular, round and white, and is gorgeous? - Why, it' my new 17" Imac of course

Hello All.

If you've been following this thread, you'll know I'm a switcher, or rather have been a switcher in progress LOL, who has finally 'switched' YAY! MY IMAC IS HERE

Well, to tell the truth, I've had it for a week now, but have scarecly been able to pick myself up of the floor to write in and share the experience, as I've just been so blown away by it, and still haven't come off 'cloud nine' after a week!

What a machine. And its so true, as Simon pointed out in an earlier posting, that a computer is so much more than the sum of it's parts. It has already made such an impact on my life, I cannot get over just how special the overall feeling of having this new machine in my life is bringing to my day to day computing and domestic experience.

The thing is, that unlike other 'inanimate' objects around the home, such as a HiFi, or TV etc, one interacts with a computer much more, and mostly on a daily basis, and sometimes for lengthy periods of time.

So aspects such as attention to design detail of the hardware, re the aesthetics of shape and of colour, and the small elements of the design that give it personality all very much come into play.

Much in the way of a finely designed Automobile, or other forms of exquisite engineering art, the design has a seeming 'face' that seems to smile and welcome one to interact with and experience the object in subtle and almost intangible, but very satisfying ways.

I find myself often just sitting and admiring it, with a sense of pride of ownership, that is usually only engendered by objects possessed of very fine design elements indeed.

Of course, the icing on the cake is using it, and here again, the small desktop footprint, exceptional running quietness, ergonomics of both the hardware and the GUI, as well as the clarity of the display, all come together to provide what I believe to be the best overall computing experience for the home, available in the market place today IMHO.

Hence all of a sudden, my computing and general stress levels have decreased, and I have an intense liking for this machine which enables me to just 'do the things that I need to do' in a way that is intuitively straightforward, sublimely elegant, totally stable and reliable.

All of a sudden, I seem relieved of the background anxiety and frustration that used to accompany me with my Windows experiences, and I look forward to getting on the Mac, whereas once having 'mastered' the PC, the intial journey of discovery with it, and getting 'on top of it', things quickly turned into a sense of work, drudgery, and frustration dealing with all the mindless PC complexity and intrusiveness.

As the saying goes, this may be my first Mac, but I'LL NEVER GO BACK!

It arrived, by courier a week back, with inbuilt Bluetooth, and the internal ram slot filled with one 512mb chip, leaving the user accesible slot, and airport card free for later usage.

As a friend of mine in marketing once said, the 'out of the box' experience is very important as regards the 'post purchase product evaluation mode' This is where a combination of advertising, brochures, general product information etc and expectation builds a sense of inner anticipation, and almost fantasy as to what the new purchase will be like.

If the out of the box experience is positive, then ones expectations are fulfilled, and one is very happy; if not, the reverse applies, and apparently in marketing terms, this is very important to gain initial customer satisfaction, especially as regards to repeat sales.

Well, mindful of this, I was completely sold. The little plastic sheaths on the USB plugs, complete with lugs to hold the carefully wire tied leads in place, and even carefully fitted plastic wrap sheaths over the plastic body of the plugs to avoid possible scratching, come to mind as good examples of the care and attention to detail in the packing, and presentation of the products 'out of the box experience'. As you can tell, I was impressed.

After opening the box, I carefully read the enclosed literature, and proceeded to unpack everything slowly and with deliberation, checking for faults as I went. All was well. Whew! - it had come a long way from BTO in the Apple store all the way to OZ.

After connecting everything, and having checked the various ISP addresses etc from Fuggly, the PC, it was time to switch on.

A lovely chime ensued, followed by a grey screen and Apple logo, and shortly a blue screen appeared asking me to choose a language. Thus done, another screen appeared, asking me to load one of the supplied discs, identified on screen by it's colour, and the drawer of the DVD drive opened in anticipation, as if to say, hey, put me here LOL.

After five minutes of loading software, the display brought up a registration screen. After filling in the relevant data, there were more easy to fill in choices re info for my ISP, and whether to take up the offer of a free 60 day .Mac tial offer.

Finally, up came the now familiar desktop, and the machine automatically went on line, connecting me via my ISP to the net, and registering my information with Apple, and conforming my mail account both for my ISP, and for my new .Mac account.

Utterly, Utterly, brilliant!!

Sure, I could do these things myself manually, or perhaps use one of those intrusive, and far from intuitive or flexible windows wizards, but this was just the best experience of getting a computer up and running I've ever had, period.

And so it has been over the last week.

After the first thrill of setting it up, due other committments, it was a few days before I could spend any real time with it, but I have been continually confounded as to how straightforward and intuitive everything is. If there has been any hestiation on my part, it is simply because I've expected things to be more difficult, or with a very steep learning curve, than what has proved to be the case.

I guess too many lingering memories/nightmares of the Windoze world!

Yesterday, I successfully networked the two, using a crossover cable, having had NO PREVIOUS NETWORKING EXPERIENCE of any kind. Again, just brilliant, it simply WORKS!

So now I have all my documents, and graphics files across, and only have to deal with my bookmarks, address books, and mail.

Anyway, I really must stop raving, but I am truly just so happy with my little Einstein.

Yup, I think that's what I'm going to call him. I thought at first it was a bit silly how some people reputedly gave their Macs a name, but whilst having a coffee and just admiring it, the name Albert Einstein came to mind. Partly because he was a genius, and partly because he was a Piscean, as am I. Not that I think I have anything in common re the genius thing, just the Piscean bit, but my little Mac just kinda smiled at me, and I thought, yep, Einstein.

Heheh, thanks for listening all, and letting me have my little rave.

It's been a most positive experience sharing with you all prior to the arrival of my 'baby', and all the decision making that went on, and I hope to be able to contribute more as my knowledge and fondness of the Mac continues to grow.

Peace and goodwill to all,

John.
Populist thinking exalts the simplistic and the ordinary
     
Krusty
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Apr 16, 2003, 01:04 AM
 
Originally posted by Johnnyboysmac:
Whats rectangular, round and white, and is gorgeous? - Why, it' my new 17" Imac of course
<snip for brevity>
Wow !! what a great tale. Glad you are enjoying your new machine and welcome. With all the free software that comes with a new mac, you should stay occupied for quite a while. There are TONS of cool things you can do out of the box ... especially with a .mac account (quick web pages built from iPhoto, file sharing via iDisk, etc). Not to mention Apple's developer tools (for programming C/Obj-C/Java and Applescript Studio) and other nice FREEBIES like QuickTime Streaming Server and countless 3rd party apps.

Finally, since it appears that you've already networked your Mac and PC, you should definitely give Microsoft's Remote Desktop Connection for Macintosh a try if you can run Terminal Services from your PC (see This page for more info on what versions of windows support this). Basically, it will allow you to put Fuggly in dark closet somewhere and control it remotely from you Mac if you ever have need for Windows (essentially, your mac's monitor will become the monitor for your windows box when you need it). Quite fun and, most importantly, KEEPS YOU ON YOUR BEAUTIFUL NEW iMAC even if you have to run Windows for some reason
     
Simon
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Apr 16, 2003, 01:40 AM
 
Johnnyboysmac, great story! Have fun with Einstein. ;-)

Originally posted by Johnnyboysmac:
I find myself often just sitting and admiring it, with a sense of pride of ownership, that is usually only engendered by objects possessed of very fine design elements indeed.
Enjoy it while it lasts. This is an experience I've only had with Macs. They just stun you for days, even if they're just sitting there. But beware, we decadent humans get used to everything. One day you'll enter the room, work with your iMac, leave the room again and won't have spent those "stunned moments" of worship in front of it. So enjoy while it lasts.

Yup, I think that's what I'm going to call him. I thought at first it was a bit silly how some people reputedly gave their Macs a name, but whilst having a coffee and just admiring it, the name Albert Einstein came to mind. Partly because he was a genius, and partly because he was a Piscean, as am I. Not that I think I have anything in common re the genius thing, just the Piscean bit, but my little Mac just kinda smiled at me, and I thought, yep, Einstein.
Forgive my ignorance, but what is a Piscean? As a physicist I know Einstein pretty well, but I've never heard of him being Piscean. Couldn't find the word in the citonary either. Is that some Australian word?

Have fun and enjoy the great iMac!
     
Johnnyboysmac
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Apr 16, 2003, 03:10 AM
 
"what is a Piscean? As a physicist I know Einstein pretty well, but I've never heard of him being Piscean. Couldn't find the word in the citonary either. Is that some Australian word?"

Heheh, nah nothing so special, it's just what 'star' sign, or zodiac sign you are.

I guess I could never explain it in a rational logical way, but then feelings seldom are.

I was just sitting admiring my new 'baby' and the name just drifted into my head.

Being an occasional sensitive_new_age_guy from time to time, it was a case of mere abstract association with the genius of Einstein, and the fact that to the best of my knowledge his birthdate places him as a Piscean in the zodialogical scheme of things.

Being a Piscean myself, the name 'sat' well, as did the piscean 'link' so illogical as it may sound, it would appear that it is going to be his new name.

But yeah, I'm really savouring the moments, as I'm sure the 'newness' of it all will wear off fairly quickly. But whilst it's here, I'm loving every minute of it.

Peace to All,

John...
Populist thinking exalts the simplistic and the ordinary
     
Johnnyboysmac
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Apr 16, 2003, 06:05 AM
 
" definitely give Microsoft's Remote Desktop Connection for Macintosh a try if you can run Terminal Services from your PC "

Yeah, thanks Krusty, sounds like a really neat idea, but unfortunately it appears that I need something a bit higher up the windoze pecking order than Win 98SE sadly..

" KEEPS YOU ON YOUR BEAUTIFUL NEW iMAC even if you have to run Windows for some reason "

Yeah, sigh, I've been on Fuggly most of the 'arvo, as I wanted to write in, and at the 'mo, all my bookmarks etc are still on it, as are all my passwords/logon names etc in the encrypted password manager of Mozilla - but I'm hoping to have all that fixed/copied across in a day or two - I need to investigate 'keychain' as I think that can do with the latest version of Safari, which I have, re secure passwords as does Mozilla.

I need to, as I can't easily remember them all, Heheh

And then, It'll be GOODBYE FUGGLY!



Well, maybe I'll keep him around for those odd times I need to run a Windoze app; I don't anticipate enough usage to warrant getting Virtual PC at this stage, so as it owes me nought except headaches, it can stay for a while, somewhere outta sight.

Buy yeah, I want to get away from it as quickly as possible, so as to grow faster in my 'relationship' with 'Einstein'

Peace to All

John.
Populist thinking exalts the simplistic and the ordinary
     
 
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