[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

Like I said last year,
I think it was proposed to improve conditions for women seeking abortions. Before there were no regulations, no health or safety codes to speak of (unlike most other states).

This sounds like Chongo's defence of the bishops who protected child rapists because they didn't want them to get murdered in prison rather than they were trying to hide the truth to protect the reputation of the RCC.

Its either naive or dishonest. The goal is clearly to close as many abortion centres as possible and make it as difficult as possible for women to get abortions and get as close as possible to effectively prohibiting abortion in the state.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

This sounds like Chongo's defence...

No, just ****ing no. TN, unlike most other states, had no regulations on abortion clinics, California, Mass, and NY were far more restrictive. It's to the point where bad things were starting to happen, last year 4 of this country's 21 fatalities due to abortion complications happened in TN, and we have a rather small population. Disproportionate? Hell yes it is. Of course it's being spun on both sides, and I really don't give a shit, but we've needed to be brought up to parity with the rest of the country for some time.

Comparing women's reproductive health issues to child rape, WTF is wrong with you?

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

No, just ****ing no. TN, unlike most other states, had no regulations on abortion clinics, California, Mass, and NY were far more restrictive. It's to the point where bad things were starting to happen, last year 4 of this country's 21 fatalities due to abortion complications happened in TN, and we have a rather small population. Disproportionate? Hell yes it is. Of course it's being spun on both sides, and I really don't give a shit, but we've needed to be brought up to parity with the rest of the country for some time.

Comparing women's reproductive health issues to child rape, WTF is wrong with you?

I wasn't comparing the issues, only the tone of the arguments involved.

If you're statistics are accurate then perhaps I jumped the gun. Though its still pretty likely that the intention behind the proposal of the new regulations was exactly as I said, even if the public justification and some people's reasons for voting for it are not. Seems like you'd give existing clinics every chance to get up to code if you weren't out to get them in the first place.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

They do have a chance to get up to code, they have 12 months to comply, but you don't hear about that in the media. No it's, "Ooooo, they're going to shut down all but 4 of the abortion clinics in TN!" When there are only 5 (one in each metropolitan region) to begin with. That means 1 isn't up to snuff WRT its facilities and the rest have to comply with what amounts to policy and personnel improvements.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

I think it was proposed to improve conditions for women seeking abortions.

Firstly, similar legislation has been passed in other states that has caused several abortion clinics to shut down. This is the intended goal. It is also aptly mirrored in voter ID laws, where legislators claim they are trying improve the veracity of the elections, but the actual effect is it reduces participation.

Also in parallel, much like voter ID is a problem that there is no evidence of it being a widespread problem, can you illustrate how current abortion clinics are unsafe/harmful to their clients?

Thirdly, does it seem logical to you that by reducing the amount of abortion clinics available, making it harder for women to locate one, this increases the chances of them getting the procedure done safely?

[Cap'n Tightpants]

It doesn't lower the number of clinics available, that's just misinformation.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

It doesn't lower the number of clinics available, that's just misinformation.

That addresses one of my three points.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

I answered the other two just a few posts ago.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

I answered the other two just a few posts ago.

Ok, thanks

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

It's to the point where bad things were starting to happen, last year 4 of this country's 21 fatalities due to abortion complications happened in TN

Is there somewhere that has better aggregate data? One year of one county is what would be considered noise. Proponents of the legislation could easily be cherry picking the worst data-point (Since you speak of spin)

For example: Mortality of induced abortion, other outpatient surgical procedures and common activities in the United States. - PubMed - NCBI

RESULTS: The abortion-related mortality rate in 2000-2009 in the United States was 0.7 per 100,000 abortions. Studies in approximately the same years found mortality rates of 0.8-1.7 deaths per 100,000 plastic surgery procedures, 0-1.7deaths per 100,000 dental procedures, 0.6-1.2 deaths per 100,000 marathons run …

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

They do have a chance to get up to code, they have 12 months to comply, but you don't hear about that in the media. No it's, "Ooooo, they're going to shut down all but 4 of the abortion clinics in TN!" When there are only 5 (one in each metropolitan region) to begin with. That means 1 isn't up to snuff WRT its facilities and the rest have to comply with what amounts to policy and personnel improvements.

So how many of those deaths you mentioned occurred at the one that is/was below par?

[Cap'n Tightpants]

I don't believe improving the facilities and requiring more comprehensive care support is going to make abortions less accessible. Again, 4 of the 5 clinics already meet the most stringent of the requirements, the rest are changes in policy and personnel that most other states have already adopted.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

So how many of those deaths you mentioned occurred at the one that is/was below par?

No idea, but you already have the standards in the UK that TN wants to implement, so why are you concerned?

[Chongo]

PA regulates abortion faciltities, but that didn't prevent Kermit Gosnell from running his house of horrors. The only reason he was discovered was because the DEA was investigating him. It was reported that PA had not inspected his "clinic" for 18 years.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

No idea, but you already have the standards in the UK that TN wants to implement, so why are you concerned?

I just think it might clarify the lawmakers true intent. You don't think its relevant to your interpretation?

[Cap'n Tightpants]

I'm thinking it's hypocrisy to criticize others for requirements that you, and most others in the civilized world, already have in place.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

I'm thinking it's hypocrisy to criticize others for requirements that you, and most others in the civilized world, already have in place.

I'm not criticising the requirements. I don't even know what they are.