[TWinbrook46636]

The speed increase from the 1MB L2 cache and 200 FSB alone would make the 7448 a welcome update.

[TWinbrook46636]

The speed increase from the 1MB L2 cache and 200 FSB alone would make the 7448 a welcome update.

[TWinbrook46636]

The speed increase from the 1MB L2 cache and 200 FSB alone would make the 7448 a welcome update.

[TWinbrook46636]

The speed increase from the 1MB L2 cache and 200 FSB alone would make the 7448 a welcome update.

[TWinbrook46636]

The speed increase from the 1MB L2 cache and 200 FSB alone would make the 7448 a welcome update.

[John123]

Originally Posted by TWinbrook46636

The speed increase from the 1MB L2 cache and 200 FSB alone would make the 7448 a welcome update.

Welcome, but not terribly substantial.

[inkhead]

I can tell you with 100% accuracy there will be no powerbook updated until feb-march. Intel based... and a powerpc based one.

[goodcompany]

Originally Posted by Pierre B.

Rest assured, Apple will find something to add that we could not now think of. Example from the past: illuminated keyboard.

It is pretty widely expected that the new Intel based PB's will have integrated iSight (like the new iMac) in the top of the bezel, sort of integrated into the latch. They have been working on this design and filed a patent for it recently.

Otherwise, they are expected to keep the overall form factor of the current PowerPC lineup, with some small tweaks along the way to make them (much) thinner and lighter.

[Jackus]

Originally Posted by hallvard

This thread is pretty interesting with all the different views, but what difference in real life (and in ordinary English, not tech-speak please) will a 7448 make compared to the existing, new Powerbook?

I've waited a long time (2 years) to buy a new computer, and although I don't have to have a new computer (my G3 upgraded PowerMac 9600 still works) I would really like to get started editing my home-videos, and for that I need a new machine, which is where the 15" Powerbook G4 comes in.

Will a possible "silent upgrade" of the Powerbook make such a huge difference that it's worth waiting a few months for it to possibly happen, or are we mostly talking longer battery life, and if so -are we talking considerably longer battery lives than the present Powerbook can do? Even though I want to buy a laptop I won't be using it much outside of my home, at least not in the near future as I see it.

If you've been waiting this long, I say wait a little longer.. for the Mactels.

[driven]

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

Powerbooks are just as much a consumer product as a pro one. iBooks are only 12 and 14 inches, some people want more than that or don't want white. Many people like to buy "top of the line" and not be worried about buying something new for a while.

I wouldn't be surprised to see an intel powerbook being sold alongside a ppc one for the "pros" that need their old programs.

I personally had not thought of this ... but it does make sense and I can see it happening.

But ... I also don't see the G5 going away on the PowerMac for quite some time. As far as I can tell Intel has nothing that would outperform, or even be more attractive than the current top of the line G5.

[driven]

Originally Posted by Helmling

I don't think the update is that disappointing. People are just fixated on the processor. Honestly, though, don't we all know that short of a generational leap in processors (like the G5 we all knew WASN'T coming) that chip speed isn't that important in performance. The RAM and standard 128 video are more important if you ask me.

I'd still take a new PowerBook over any PC laptop on the market, that's for sure.

You beat me to the punch on this one. I actually COULD HAVE chosen a PC since most of my work revolves around it, yet I chose a Powerbook. I found nothing more attractive feature-wise or form-factor wise in the marketplace.

The videocard was the big push. In the Intel side you either have:

- Integrated graphics and shared RAM (SLOW)
- Lack of DVI
- ... or if you can find a GOOD graphics card, *AND* DVI then the thing is either
A) As expensive or more expensive than a Powerbook (Thinkpads, or the high-end "luxury" laptops
or
B) Extremely large and heavy to carry. (Most 15" PC laptops are as big as Apple's 17"!)

[Randman]

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

I wouldn't be surprised to see an intel powerbook being sold alongside a ppc one for the "pros" that need their old programs.

1) Apple would not release a new Mactel AND a ppc rival.

2) Apple is going to push HARD for all major apps to be ported over from Day 1.

3) Classic may die on the Mactels but the majority of laptop owners aren't going to be phased by that.

4) Apple has PPC support for a few years but there comes a time to cut the strings. That time is months away.

[inkhead]

I'm absolutely 100% positive you are wrong. In feb-march you will see intel powerbooks along with the current revision of powerbook (ppc) shipping still.

1. Adobe probably won't complete intel switchover till end of 2006
2. Macromedia past 2006
3. Microsoft, mid 2006

Originally Posted by Randman

1) Apple would not release a new Mactel AND a ppc rival.

2) Apple is going to push HARD for all major apps to be ported over from Day 1.

3) Classic may die on the Mactels but the majority of laptop owners aren't going to be phased by that.

4) Apple has PPC support for a few years but there comes a time to cut the strings. That time is months away.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by inkhead

1. Adobe probably won't complete intel switchover till end of 2006

Source?

Originally Posted by inkhead

2. Macromedia past 2006

Macromedia's been acquired by Adobem but again, any source?

Originally Posted by inkhead

3. Microsoft, mid 2006

Source? (though that would be an accomplishment for M$).

[Armas]

Actually, I think MS & Adobe were out on stage when steve dropped the x86 bomb @ WWDC. I recall MS & Adobe (now also MACR) said they'd support & Port....
Adobe said in like eWeek... We need 4 months QA - plus we need actual features, no it's NOT a simple recompile ( steve makes it sound so easy ) & I think MS gave some next year sort of reply as well....
( Hey, everyone was in shock, and heard blah blah...OMG!)


Steve said starting in about a year with the LOW END, and completing the transition, hopefully by the end of 2007. Right, anyone miss it, replay webcast, it's there...

Based on that info from horse's mouth, *I* thought, a lot of iBook, Mac Mini, ( eMac?) aren't PRO. They rarely use PRO apps, if ever, and largely Office, and if it had a graphics card, would be hardly noticeable in emulation.... Steve did the whole keynote on x86 Tiger....< OK, without Carbon libraries & all, no classic, and lighter than PPC version > Mom, the Mrs., grandma, and dad wont notice.....at all....a Pentium M or slow G4 - email & websurfing wont be deal breakers....

So, PB G4 IS PRO, as is Quadzilla...hehe Quadzilla, funny.... So, 17" PB G4 users may bitch a LOT if PS, Quark ( hell does that even run on X yet? ;-) FCP, Shake, Aperture.... I know PS has a LOT of little AltiVec filters ( I know Core Image includes like 50 of 'em - but that's not all.... plus PRO users will note bugs - possibly lose business - so Apple can't shove those in the channel yet.....even though they have had some time, except gates heehee!

MOT signed agreement, to supply G4's until Dec. 2008 - which covers Applecare ONLY if we stop shipping G4's ON Dec.31st

-wait how did I get sucked into this???

Devils advocate: If iBook has 1 CPU, and PB had dual CPU ( One extra to make sure PS runs 70% faster, even emulated! <hurrah!> ) That could work....and steve could convince us it's true!

OK kids, MOT has announced 7448 - drop in compatible, means ZERO effort - swap G4 boxes - so if MOTO had 'em, we'd have them.... It has more L2, and "slightly" faster bus, but a max of 1.7GHz - a .03GHz speed bump is worse than an insult!
( If MOT has 'em ready, maybe - but the 7455 has 2MB L3 -apple never did use it - but Apple cannot call it an upgrade...yikes! )


Um, 100% sure on a Feb. portable update PPC & x86? ( maybe, but expect a Jan MWSF intro - even if it takes a month


Oh, better get outta here B 4 I leak anything good!

[toneloco28]

Originally Posted by Armas

Steve said starting in about a year with the LOW END, and completing the transition, hopefully by the end of 2007. Right, anyone miss it, replay webcast, it's there...

Based on that info from horse's mouth, *I* thought, a lot of iBook, Mac Mini, ( eMac?) aren't PRO. They rarely use PRO apps, if ever, and largely Office, and if it had a graphics card, would be hardly noticeable in emulation.... Steve did the whole keynote on x86 Tiger....< OK, without Carbon libraries & all, no classic, and lighter than PPC version > Mom, the Mrs., grandma, and dad wont notice.....at all....a Pentium M or slow G4 - email & websurfing wont be deal breakers....

Steve never said NO SUCH THING! I've watched the keynote several times, and I'm 100% positive Steve never said in what particular order machines would be transitioned. Powerbooks, are unequivocally the machines that can benefit the most from the transition. I expect at MWSF an announcement of intel pbooks, perhaps shipping in a month or two. I agree with the person above who said Apple may sell intel pbooks, along with older ppc machines. Didn't they do this with the Powermac g4's and g5's? Although, it may be kind of embarrasing if the intel pbooks run ppc software faster in emulation?!

[newsushi]

I really have no idea when Apple will release the intel powerbooks...though I'm with the "sooner the better' crowd, as I'll need to update before too long, and I don't want to be a first generation adopter (Hey, I just upgraded to Tiger a month ago...Yay me!). Certainly I agree that Powerbooks are among the lines that would benefit most from the transition to Intel, certainly notebooks are the driving force behind the switch, what with laptop sales surpassing desktop sales and all, and I wouldn't even be surprised to see Apple sell PPC powerbooks alongside Intel ones..at first. But if the Intel books can emulate faster than the PPC and run their own programs natively...there's not a shot in the world that they'd continue to sell PPC books.

I suppose I know when I'll upgrade for real, though...and that'll be the day that Adobe's creative suite for Intel-based macs is released.

See you on the flip side.

-NewSushi

[John123]

Originally Posted by toneloco28

I've watched the keynote several times, !

This is really disturbing...

[John123]

Originally Posted by Armas

OK kids, MOT has announced 7448 - drop in compatible, means ZERO effort - swap G4 boxes - so if MOTO had 'em, we'd have them....

1) It's not "ZERO" effort.

2) I never understand this argument. Why do you think that you'd get them automatically? ATI "has" an X300 for laptops, yet you don't have that. Seeme intuitive to me that 7448s will be more expensive than 7447a's (if someone wants to paste some lot prices and prove me otherwise, that would be cool, but I'm going to go with the general precept that you have to pay more to get something better from a company). Someone who makes decent money has likely run the numbers and done the calculation.

It's far from guaranteed that availability = usage......

[mduell]

Originally Posted by inkhead

1. Adobe probably won't complete intel switchover till end of 2006
2. Macromedia past 2006
3. Microsoft, mid 2006

These three (well, really two) companies already have products on x86 and PPC. I think they will be among the first to have fat binaries ready. The PPC-only companies are going to be the ones who are slower at porting.

[crazyebi]

Everybody have been talking about Apple switches its engineering team to work on Intel PowerBook. Although there is no specific evidence, its quite clear that the current release basically supports that statement. However, Steve has make it clear that Intel chips will not show up earlier than 2H 2006, and even if they did, all the major apps have to be ready, otherwise everything have to run on Rosetta. I believe the recent engineering switch may be a sidetrack, and people are expecting minimum or zero updates on PowerBook. However, don't forget even if 7448 is available, it cannot run H264 at 1080P and for a flagship product, whats the use for all those pixels... Apple may have gotten 7448 and accumulate in inventory for iBooks or the minis for future update. And at the same time, 8641 is more meaningful because this is what I call a real G4 MAX because it retains the best features of G4, with high Bandwidth Bus to keep the G4 chip busy along with 1MB L2. PowerBook will be more like a PowerBook, so I am still expecting an update in April for the last round, or may be another update in late 2006 before switching to Intel. Apple will switch the consumer lines first to Intel before the Professional lines and PowerBook is still for pros. After seeing Quad Based PowerMacs with PCI interface, a single core 8641 has a high possibility to make it in the lineup in 1H 2006 follow by possible dual core 8641 update. G4 based architecture will show its real strength in 2006 and I think Apple will still use it before completely phased out in 2007.

[toneloco28]

Originally Posted by crazyebi

Everybody have been talking about Apple switches its engineering team to work on Intel PowerBook. Although there is no specific evidence, its quite clear that the current release basically supports that statement. However, Steve has make it clear that Intel chips will not show up earlier than 2H 2006, and even if they did, all the major apps have to be ready, otherwise everything have to run on Rosetta. I believe the recent engineering switch may be a sidetrack, and people are expecting minimum or zero updates on PowerBook. However, don't forget even if 7448 is available, it cannot run H264 at 1080P and for a flagship product, whats the use for all those pixels... Apple may have gotten 7448 and accumulate in inventory for iBooks or the minis for future update. And at the same time, 8641 is more meaningful because this is what I call a real G4 MAX because it retains the best features of G4, with high Bandwidth Bus to keep the G4 chip busy along with 1MB L2. PowerBook will be more like a PowerBook, so I am still expecting an update in April for the last round, or may be another update in late 2006 before switching to Intel. Apple will switch the consumer lines first to Intel before the Professional lines and PowerBook is still for pros. After seeing Quad Based PowerMacs with PCI interface, a single core 8641 has a high possibility to make it in the lineup in 1H 2006 follow by possible dual core 8641 update. G4 based architecture will show its real strength in 2006 and I think Apple will still use it before completely phased out in 2007.

There will never be another g4 based (or any ppc for that matter) powerbook in my opinion. This last update solidified that. The powermac update has probably been in the works for over a year, so it has little bearing on projections for other Apple products.How is apple going to justify switching their consumer lines (mac mini, ibook) over first, and having them outperform the "pro" powerbooks? It's either powerbook first or all lines, sans powermac and possibly iMac, at once.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by crazyebi

And at the same time, 8641 is more meaningful because this is what I call a real G4 MAX because it retains the best features of G4, with high Bandwidth Bus to keep the G4 chip busy along with 1MB L2. PowerBook will be more like a PowerBook, so I am still expecting an update in April for the last round, or may be another update in late 2006 before switching to Intel. Apple will switch the consumer lines first to Intel before the Professional lines and PowerBook is still for pros. After seeing Quad Based PowerMacs with PCI interface, a single core 8641 has a high possibility to make it in the lineup in 1H 2006 follow by possible dual core 8641 update. G4 based architecture will show its real strength in 2006 and I think Apple will still use it before completely phased out in 2007.

Oh yea, 8641(D) will be out any day now... Freescale has been running that line for how long?

[crazyebi]

Originally Posted by toneloco28

There will never be another g4 based (or any ppc for that matter) powerbook in my opinion. This last update solidified that. The powermac update has probably been in the works for over a year, so it has little bearing on projections for other Apple products.How is apple going to justify switching their consumer lines (mac mini, ibook) over first, and having them outperform the "pro" powerbooks? It's either powerbook first or all lines, sans powermac and possibly iMac, at once.

I see your point but Intel has a wide variety of processors and their baseline Celeron could be the first products out for Macintosh consumer lines before they release their ultra low wattage dual core Pentium for PowerBook. Obviously I prefer Intel but Freescale has 8641D printed on the timetable. Maybe just one last update. The Mini and iBook will first sport Intel Celeron first. That chip will not outperform 8641D.

[Paul Huang]

I am willing to bet my nickle that in March or April, if not earlier, another update wil arrive.

If you look at Apple's other product line, the product cycles have shortened. This is necessary to stimulate sales. Although the anticipated "hiccup" never came, it is inevitable if Apple does not take pre-emptive measures. The PowerMac G5 update, the PoewrBook update, and the iMac updates are perfect examples.

There are plenty of people who intend to use existing applications and don't care about the Intel thing. Those users are going to buy existing systems no matter what. New releases are a perfect way to stimulate sales and to remove doubt. They will use the final-generation PPC systems for three more years and then move onto Intel.

[Moon Potato]

Originally Posted by crazyebi

their baseline Celeron could be the first products out for Macintosh consumer lines

I don't think this will be the case (and certainly hope it won't be). Nobody will want to pay Apple prices for celeron hardware - the celeron is targeted at bargain basement computers, which only make sense to produce as part of a low-margin, high-volume strategy. The only mac this could work for at all is the mini, though I don't think Apple sells enough of those to avoid having a celeron-based mini be either an overpriced P.O.S. or a money-loser.

[robertj]

Originally Posted by mduell

These three (well, really two) companies already have products on x86 and PPC. I think they will be among the first to have fat binaries ready. The PPC-only companies are going to be the ones who are slower at porting.

Here's the cnet interview where Adobe's CEO talks about a MacTel release:

http://news.com.com/Chizen+on+Apple+...=st.rc.targ_mb

If the link doesn't work, google adobe + mactel. Basically, Adobe is looking at the end of 2006 or the beginning of 2007--they'll release the x86 version for Mac at the same time they release their next version of the Creative Suite.

Quote:

Q: I wanted to get your take on Apple's switch to Intel. How difficult is the process of migrating apps from platform to platform?
Chizen: Steve (Jobs) likes to trivialize the process and make it seem easy, but moving the apps over is not that easy...Getting over to MacTel is work. I think in the long run it's going to be great because what the users will get is better performance...and greater value. At Adobe, we tend to optimize for Intel today on the Windows side. The fact that we'll be able to optimize for Intel cross-platform will make it even better for us.

Q: What are the early returns from the people doing some of the work with the developer market? Not that easy, is it?
Chizen: It's not that easy because you have to compile the app, you have to test it. If you look at most testing cycles, for any complex cycle, for any complex product, that's three or four months until it's out. You just can't turn a switch and get a MacTel product--and Steve knows that.

Q: So, when do you think that Adobe will be ready to take Photoshop?
Chizen: I haven't given a date yet, I'd be surprised if we did a MacTel only release. I think you'll find us doing what we did with OS X, which is to enhance the product and support the new environment at the same time. If you look at our product cycles for products like Photoshop and Creative Suite, they tend to be in the 18- to 24-month cycle, which means that you're talking about either Q4 of '06 or Q1 of '07.

[emphasis added]

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Moon Potato

I don't think this will be the case (and certainly hope it won't be). Nobody will want to pay Apple prices for celeron hardware - the celeron is targeted at bargain basement computers, which only make sense to produce as part of a low-margin, high-volume strategy. The only mac this could work for at all is the mini, though I don't think Apple sells enough of those to avoid having a celeron-based mini be either an overpriced P.O.S. or a money-loser.

Celerons aren't what they used to be (like the 300A days!).
The Celeron M has 1MB L2 cache and a 400Mhz FSB. Even ignoring clockrate that's a huge gain over the current G4s in the Mac mini and iBook.

[Moon Potato]

Originally Posted by mduell

Celerons aren't what they used to be (like the 300A days!).
The Celeron M has 1MB L2 cache and a 400Mhz FSB. Even ignoring clockrate that's a huge gain over the current G4s in the Mac mini and iBook.

That may be, but the celeron still has no place in a computer within Apple's price ranges. Full fledged pentium 4/pentium M systems are currently available for far less than most of apple's G4 systems, and apple doesn't have the marketshare yet to have an offering in the celeron price range that is both competitive and profitable.