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2018 Pro MacBooks
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And.reg
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Jul 12, 2018, 10:11 AM
 
So other than clock speed, what advantages do a 6-core i9 have over a 6-core i7?
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P
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Jul 12, 2018, 03:51 PM
 
Nothing. The i5/i7/i9 has always been about marketing.

You can look up the exact CPUs on ark.intel.com if you’re curious.
     
mindwaves
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Jul 15, 2018, 12:08 PM
 
Moderately impressed with the new lineup. The new processors and GPUs are ok as the updated third generation keyboard (but I think that a thin silicon film does not make a new generation), but the new True Tone display is good. I use it on my iPad and it works great. If it has a 15” touchbar-less option, I might buy one. But I remain on the sidelines.
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Jul 15, 2018, 02:01 PM
 
I like everything but the price. I'm hearing good things about the SSDs.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Jul 15, 2018, 03:15 PM
 
I think the 13” with Touchbar is the star of the new lineup. Quadcore and a quite decent GPU is really powerful for that small footprint.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Thorzdad
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Jul 15, 2018, 10:58 PM
 
I wish they’d show the non-touchbar models similar love.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 16, 2018, 06:39 AM
 
Non-Touchbar is there for the price point, not because it makes any sense as a product.
     
P
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Jul 16, 2018, 04:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
I wish they’d show the non-touchbar models similar love.
Intel hasn’t released any new CPUs to go in it (15W CPU with Iris Plus graphics).

My hope is that Apple decides to step down to Iris 620 and pass the savings on to us. Intel charges through the nose for those chips, and they’re power-limited to the point that the graphics are severely hamstrung. Even better if they can find a cheaper display as well. That should be enough to get the price down to $999 and kill of the old Airs. Since Apple is doing something to replace the old Airs and we haven’t seen any leaked cases, I hope that this is the plan.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
reader50
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Jul 16, 2018, 06:15 PM
 
The Airs are the only notebooks with a decent port selection today.

Some months ago, a friend asked me to find deals on Macs. His little girl was going to school, and needed a Mac notebook. The low-end MBP had few ports (all USB-C) and too high a price tag. The MacBook had only one port, and a USB-C at that.

The Air was the only one he considered. All the others were too crippled. If the Air wasn't around, I expect that little girl would have gone to school with a Dell or something similar. As it is, she got a decent notebook.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 16, 2018, 06:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
The Airs are the only notebooks with a decent port selection today.

Some months ago, a friend asked me to find deals on Macs. His little girl was going to school, and needed a Mac notebook. The low-end MBP had few ports (all USB-C) and too high a price tag.
That is, quite simply, flat-out wrong.

They are Thunderbolt 3 ports. Calling them "crippled" is like calling the monster Swiss army knife "crippled" when your needs are a nail file and a toothpick, with the occasional knife.

I'm with you on the entry-level MBP price and the single USB-C on the MacBook.
     
reader50
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Jul 16, 2018, 07:02 PM
 
We can argue all we like about ports, but I got the clear impression. He wouldn't buy a notebook without a standard USB-A port built in. If I couldn't find a Mac notebook with USB-A, he would have gone elsewhere.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 17, 2018, 04:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
We can argue all we like about ports, but I got the clear impression. He wouldn't buy a notebook without a standard USB-A port built in. If I couldn't find a Mac notebook with USB-A, he would have gone elsewhere.
Yes, that much is clear.

But anyone who calls a Thunderbolt 3 port "crippled" over a USB-A port (or pretty much any other port, for that matter), is just ill-informed and wrong.
     
mindwaves
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Jul 17, 2018, 08:55 PM
 
Well, it is crippled in the sense that it can't work with your brand new iPhone X right out of the box...
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And.reg  (op)
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Jul 17, 2018, 09:22 PM
 
I just wish that, with the purchase of a new Macbook, Pro or otherwise, Apple would include a USB-A adapter for each USB-C or Thunderbolt 3 port on the machine. I mean, >$2000 and Apple still won't ship a few $10 adapters in the box? (This was a bigger problem two years ago than it is today, but still...)
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Spheric Harlot
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Jul 18, 2018, 03:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post
Well, it is crippled in the sense that it can't work with your brand new iPhone X right out of the box...
Who hooks up their phone to the computer with a cable!?
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 18, 2018, 03:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
I just wish that, with the purchase of a new Macbook, Pro or otherwise, Apple would include a USB-A adapter for each USB-C or Thunderbolt 3 port on the machine. I mean, >$2000 and Apple still won't ship a few $10 adapters in the box? (This was a bigger problem two years ago than it is today, but still...)
Four USB-A adapters? Why? People obviously only have three ports plus power. And obviously, Ethernet is far more important. Er no, HDMI, of course. Wait, no - this is a pro machine. They need to include an SD reader.

Or maybe, you just budget a $15 third-party Adapter that does the three things you happen to need, and it’s not Apple’s problem.
     
And.reg  (op)
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Jul 18, 2018, 09:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Er no, HDMI, of course. Wait, no - this is a pro machine. They need to include an SD reader.
They did through 2015, and I used every one of those ports. Convenient, I know...
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Jul 18, 2018, 09:44 AM
 
I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again: put the USB-A ports on the charger. I have a charger like that, and it works great.

I also think that the fact that parts of the commentariat have focused on the SD card slot as the main thing missing is why we still have only USB-C. Apple can see how many people are using that slot in its Macs and probably figures that if that is the one people are missing, we’re good.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 18, 2018, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
They did through 2015, and I used every one of those ports. Convenient, I know...
I have a USB hub that I keep permanently attached to the stationary hard drives at the desk at home, and a Thunderbolt Dock that does the HDMI for an external monitor, plus USB and FireWire for the external keyboard and other drives and interface that I keep permanently attached in the studio.

On the road, I have a tiny cheap usb-C to USB-A Adapter and a Lightning camera USB adapter with me. And the power supply, which I also use for iPhone and iPad (when I don’t just charge them off the ’Book’s ports).
That’s it.

I’ve used an SD card slot ONCE in the last decade. I’m perfectly happy not carrying one around with me on the machine everywhere I go.
     
And.reg  (op)
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Jul 18, 2018, 03:34 PM
 
Well bravo then.

Going back to my original question: Who would truly benefit from having the i9, given some of the thermal issues?

See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx8J125s4cg

Like, really what market is that configuration targeting?
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cSurfr
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Jul 19, 2018, 09:52 AM
 
Wow! I haven't been on the site since it shut down. I didn't realize there were still some active users here. I just picked up the 2018 15" base and am pretty happy with it. Most of my keyboard does indeed seem quieter, but my delete key doesn't sound much different than the 2017.
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Jul 19, 2018, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Well bravo then.

Going back to my original question: Who would truly benefit from having the i9, given some of the thermal issues?

See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx8J125s4cg

Like, really what market is that configuration targeting?
That freaking video again...

It is one guy who, in one specific test, claims to have a thermal-throttling CPU. He provides very little evidence that it is so, but even if it is, it could be his computer that is broken or something in his install that is bad. Even if it is a more widespread problem, Apple can fix it with a more aggressive fan curve.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 19, 2018, 07:26 PM
 
AppleInsider verified the throttling in their tests:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/18/...ng-performance
     
ghporter
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Jul 19, 2018, 08:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Who hooks up their phone to the computer with a cable!?
ME. Specifically for backups, it's faster than trying to back up wirelessly.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Thorzdad
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Jul 19, 2018, 08:10 PM
 
I cable both my iPad and my wife’s iPhone.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 19, 2018, 08:14 PM
 
Yes, obviously some people (notably those who will complain about it on a tech forum on the dweebnet) will connect their phone via cable.

But honestly, for the six people who own an iOS device AND a USB-C-only machine AND don't use the default iCloud backup mechanism (and, apparently, don't have a USB-C to USB-A adapter laying about), it's somehow a terrible failing by Apple to not include a USB-C cable with their 2017 iOS devices?

Come on.
     
mindwaves
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Jul 19, 2018, 11:43 PM
 
Well, I do every day for work. I tether my phone to my MacBook every day. I have unlimited internet and it is much faster and much more reliable than my company's network and I charge my phone at the same time.
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And.reg  (op)
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Jul 20, 2018, 06:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Yes, obviously some people (notably those who will complain about it on a tech forum on the dweebnet) will connect their phone via cable.
Why do you have to be so downright scornful and condescending? Do you understand that more than six people appreciate how much faster it is (than internet) to transfer lots of files directly between iPhone and Mac directly with a cable, and have the benefit of fast charging? Not everyone has to use their products the way that you see it.
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mindwaves
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Jul 20, 2018, 08:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
That freaking video again...

It is one guy who, in one specific test, claims to have a thermal-throttling CPU. He provides very little evidence that it is so, but even if it is, it could be his computer that is broken or something in his install that is bad. Even if it is a more widespread problem, Apple can fix it with a more aggressive fan curve.
There is another YouTube who is very very popular who explains why the chin exists in phones. I guess he kind of explained the reason, but even according to the Why Chins Exist in Phones for Dummies book, I thought that his explanation was rather simple and not satisfactory enough.
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Spheric Harlot
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Jul 21, 2018, 12:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Why do you have to be so downright scornful and condescending? Do you understand that more than six people appreciate how much faster it is (than internet) to transfer lots of files directly between iPhone and Mac directly with a cable, and have the benefit of fast charging? Not everyone has to use their products the way that you see it.
Right back at you.

If you got an air of condescension from my post, then my point got across.

It’s annoying how tech-heads on the interwebs (yes, I called us “dweebs” — the irony that I include myself in all that, as a frequenter of this forums, has apparently completely escaped you in your quest to find me somehow offensive) will assume that their utter outlier-use cases are somehow representative of regular customers, and therefore it is a huge failing by Apple (it’s always and exclusively Apple) to not cater to them by including everything they need, for all users.
This is a kind of tech-elitism that is inherent to tech forums on the internet, and it’s completely myopic. Condescending, if you will.

Of course I see the benefit. I have a USB-C to Lightning cable. Mostly, I use it for charging from the MBP power adapter (obviating the need to carry an additional power supply) or for charging from the MBP’s ports.

Apple will get there; of course they will. Maybe even this year. But the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Rather than including a bunch of stuff that can be one thing to a few people and dead weight and cost to everybody else, they’ve included (only) ports that can be everything to everybody.
And people on the dweebnet go out and call them “crippled” — the epitome of tech-head myopia.

I thought it was funny that mindwaves mentioned tethering as a reason for including a USB-A port. It literally offers zero benefit over wireless tethering except for simultaneous charging.

I’m a pro. I’m in media. I don’t want all your single-use crap cluttering and bulking up my machines. Stop acting like I’m some sort of piddling hobbyist for preferring light-weight, flexible and powerful machines on my shoulder.
If you do that, I promise you won’t find my responses “condescending” in kind.
     
subego
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Jul 21, 2018, 12:31 AM
 
As a dweeb, I carry a regular USB charging block and a micro USB cable with a lightning tip.

Nine times out of 10 I’m not the one who needs a charge. It’s some Android ****er.
     
And.reg  (op)
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Jul 22, 2018, 05:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Right back at you.
Then why bother being rude?

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
the irony that I include myself in all that, as a frequenter of this forums, has apparently completely escaped you in your quest to find me somehow offensive
I quit reading right there. (Swear.) Because your attitude has persisted in rudeness for much longer than that, and therefore I refuse to respect what you wrote.

Have a nice day.
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And.reg  (op)
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Jul 24, 2018, 01:56 PM
 
Yay, (some of) the throttling is just a software bug after all:
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/24...tling-bug-fix/
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And.reg  (op)
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Jul 27, 2018, 12:37 PM
 
Reports of coil while because Apple switched from using Samsung flash drives to Toshiba flash drives for the 2018 model: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads...2128494/page-3
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mindwaves
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Aug 2, 2018, 03:39 AM
 
I think Apple should start making plastic laptops like before, and make small and larger versions of them, just like there white iBook lines which had a 12" and 14" version, I believe.

I desire a non-pro Apple laptop with a larger screen than 12" (Apple's MacBook line) with preferably a lower price point. A 14" or 15" Apple MacBook/iBook (no Pro) line would be nice.
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Aug 2, 2018, 02:09 PM
 
If I were in control of the MBP line, I would take the non-Touchbar MBP, switch the display for the same quality as what is in the 12" Macbook (ie, Retina but not HDR) and the CPU for one with Intel HD 620 graphics (what the air has today) and price it starting at $999. There are even i3 processors that would fit nicely in that model, they can certainly get the price down enough without cannibalising the higher-end models.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Aug 3, 2018, 01:51 AM
 
Here is my “if I were in charge of Apple's mobile Mac line-up” 2¥:

- Stop selling the current MacBook Air, its successor should be the 13" MacBook described below. Non-retina TN screens are no longer acceptable.
- Rename the MacBook to MacBook Air. Update processors regularly, add a second USB port, but continue sacrifice other features for low weight and keeping the form factor as small as possible.
- Rename the “non-Touchbar” MacBook Pro to MacBook (as P suggests). I wouldn't mind if they added a Touchbar in some models, but I would keep lower power CPUs (whatever Intel's latest 15 W TDP offering is). Most importantly, this should be Apple's cheapest machine. (I am not sure if Apple will ever go back to plastic, but I loved my white dual USB iBook.)
- Give all 13" MacBook Pros a 4-core processor with 28 W TDP. Add one USB-A port and an SD card reader. Give this machine a larger battery compared to the non-Pro machine. In the future, add Intel CPUs that sport an AMD GPU.
- 15" MacBook Pro: keep more ports and keep ports for longer. This should be the last mobile Mac with what Apple considers to be “legacy” ports. Put less emphasis on low weight than with other machines and be more willing to sacrifice other things for high sustained performance and battery life (that includes a discrete GPU).

As long as Apple sticks to Intel CPUs, this is the best I can come up with. Once Apple switches to ARM SoCs, here are a few additional thoughts:

- Go away from the Mac-xxx moniker. I always loved iBook and PowerBook so much more than MacBook and PowerBook. (Yes, I know, this has nothing to do with technology, but still.)
- Add more co-processors to the higher-end machines. I think this is one of the main reasons why Apple should move away from Intel, because a lot of performance improvements will come from specialized hardware. That and Intel's lackluster integrated GPU performance. For example, the Pro machines could come with a more powerful version of the successor to the T2, which could not only drive the TouchBar, but act as an SSD controller and include other co-processors (e. g. for neural networks, image and video processing). Just keep in mind that the current T2 features two A10-class cores, so roughly the power of a MacBook.
- In the ARM Book, use whatever is in the latest iPad Pro, and update the two machines in lock step. 2 fast + 4 slow cores seems like a good compromise between battery life, heat dissipation and performance.
- Use a higher frequency version of the ARM Book/iPad Pro processor with more powerful graphics (!), and add a more powerful co-processor for the SSD (you could use last-gen's pro co-processor).
- ARM Book Pro: Add a much more powerful GPU, more cores (4+4 or 6+6) and include a very powerful co-processor for neural networks, SSD and the like. ECC RAM should also be a no-brainer.
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Aug 3, 2018, 10:05 AM
 
The key about the 15W CPUs is that they go all the way from shitty Celerons and Pentiums to quadcore i7 chips. Even if Apple but the floor at i3, there is a lot of range to keep both low-end and decent midrange models with the same chassis.

The T2 in the MBP today does include the SSD controller, as well as a lot of the other things you’re requesting:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862

Not sure to what extent MacOS is using that feature, however.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Aug 3, 2018, 08:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
The T2 in the MBP today does include the SSD controller, as well as a lot of the other things you’re requesting:
I'm fully aware of what the T2 currently does, but I think Apple still benefits if they switched to ARM here for their CPUs (in addition to their SSD controllers ). To my knowledge at least, Apple cannot e. g. make use of their neural engine (?) coprocessor in their Macs. Moreover, once Apple switches to ARM, it can use the T-series companion chips (which they may integrate onto their SoC at one point) as a differentiator between models by making, say, a T4 and a more powerful T4X. And Apple can develop them in lock-step with their CPU cores and GPU parts.
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Aug 4, 2018, 03:02 AM
 
A Macbook Pro 15" with AMD Vega graphics + full-sized USB port would have people flocking.
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Spheric Harlot
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Aug 4, 2018, 04:12 AM
 
I really doubt that lacking a full-size USB would have any effect on people in the market for such a machine.
     
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Aug 4, 2018, 04:34 AM
 
Yeah. I can’t say a port is what makes me buy or not buy a pro machine.
     
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Aug 5, 2018, 10:39 AM
 
It seems the lack of USB-A is part of the reason that the MBA stays around. It may not matter for a pro, but it does matter for a lot of people.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
subego
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Aug 5, 2018, 01:33 PM
 
I was only talking about the MBP.
     
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Aug 5, 2018, 02:24 PM
 
I know what you meant. At the MBP launch, Schiller said that the non-TB MBP was intended as an MBA replacement - yet the MBA is still here, more than two years later, and just barely updated with a new CPU. Clearly that replacement isn’t working, which is why they appear to be working on a new plan.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
subego
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Aug 5, 2018, 06:20 PM
 
Isn’t “this Pro model will replace the Air” a fancy wat of saying “this is not actually pro”?
     
turtle777
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Aug 6, 2018, 04:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I really doubt that lacking a full-size USB would have any effect on people in the market for such a machine.
Probably not, but we have to admit that the USB-C dream didn’t turn out the way we thought. It’s actually closer to a disaster.

There are so many incompatibilities and issues with new USB-C spec’d devices, and even dongles don’t work consistently.

I bet most pros would want USB-A, in addition to C, even if it meant a thicker laptop.
Heck, it would also make space for a better keyboard.

-t
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 6, 2018, 08:20 AM
 
I’m pretty sure that anything that works via USB-A works fine via USB-C. So adding USB-A would have no benefit whatsoever except to prolong the existence of yet another one of eight or nine “standard” ports.

I agree completely that USB-C has been implemented in the worst way imaginable by the industry.

I also love the keyboard in my late 2016 (prefer it to any of the others from 25 years of Mac laptops), contrary to the amplified minority you read on the interwebs.
     
reader50
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Aug 6, 2018, 09:10 AM
 
Let us not forget the magsafe port. The one that protects your notebook when you trip over the cord, or try to walk away without thinking. That releases harmlessly even when it's tugged from the side.

As magsafe is a slim port, there was no reason to remove it. The ability to charge over USB-C in a pinch is a nice addition, but should not have replaced the primary method.

And like it or not, USB-A is a standard port. Today's notebooks should have today's standard ports. Having tomorrow's ports is a plus, so long as they're in addition to today's.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 6, 2018, 04:14 PM
 
Have you any experience with the Thunderbolt 3 machines?

The one time since November 2016 that I would have needed MagSafe to pop out, the USB-C power cable pulled right out as well.

There have been no other times because the simple fact that I can choose a port side for charging means that I‘ve been able to avoid dangerous situations. Also, being able to use the same charger for MacBook Pro and iPad is a bonus.
     
 
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