Originally Posted by ebuddy
No. I'm correcting the supposed notion that this was somehow the stupid dogmatic Christians against real-world secular scientists.
I'm not saying it was
just Christians, I said idiots in general. The Christians (and I mean the ones who absolutely refuse to question the authority of the Church) were just one example.
Originally Posted by ebuddy
It was a Christian scientist arguing with a Christian Institution which were the "conventional wisdom of the time." In that respect, the scientific establishment of today not different from the Catholic establishment of the time.
It's the "conventional wisdom" I have a problem with. Because it's wasn't. The only thing conventional about it was the amount of money and power they had to
ensure that their belief is the "right" one. People were threatened with death if they thought otherwise and made it public.
Originally Posted by ebuddy
Not all things were observable then until Galileo introduced a beautiful instrument for seeing more. Not all things are observable today. Debates happened then, debates happen today.
The Egyptians didn't need telescopes to know the Earth was spherical. They didn't need telescopes to know that the Earth was not the center of the universe (though, I don't believe they knew that the Sun was at the center of our solar system, they did know that the Earth wasn't.) They didn't need telescopes to calculate the circumference of the planet, nor the distance to the sun or the moon.
In any event, you didn't need a telescope to observe the contradictions to religious doctrine of the time.
You don't need telescopes to observe the planets in motion, nor the stars or comets. What the telescope helped do was to show the phases of planets and observe the more faint comets. That was the nail in the coffin for the "conventional wisdom." If Earth was at the center of the universe and Venus orbited around Earth between it and the sun, then Venus would be in a perpetual New phase.
Originally Posted by ebuddy
your absolute ignorance on this point in it's gross generalizations. I hope at some point in your life you'll realize it.
I already know my ignorance is unfathomable when it comes to religion.
Originally Posted by ebuddy
Now I'm really ashamed of you. I urge you to calm down and really think about what you're saying. Who is calling genetic mutations evil and condemning individuals as such?
A few homosexuals and a bunch of Christians.
Originally Posted by ebuddy
I've certainly done no such thing.
I didn't say you specifically.
Originally Posted by ebuddy
So Hitler, using what he learned of Evolution from Darwin's supposition that at some point civilized man would subdue and conquer the savage, decided to attempt the creation of a master race in committing mass genocide, and this is somehow indicative of the beautiful world we'd have void of Christian influence?
Since we were talking in a historical context, that's where my Christians murdering people came from.
But since you brought it up, Hitler helped rationalize what he was doing through Christianity. Quoting the Bible and such. Do you think some people would have accepted what was going on if "God" didn't think it was OK?
It is speculation, and I have absolutely no idea how this world would pan out if there weren't Christians.
Originally Posted by ebuddy
You do realize that the culture and people to have stood most firmly in opposition to Hitler was the Church right?
Eventually, yes, they did.
Originally Posted by ebuddy
No? You'd do well to separate yourself from emotion and approach data with more sobriety. I think you'll find a much healthier conclusion in the long run. You'll thank me later.
I accept that religion has its place. I think it's a genetic thing for sentient beings, to try and rationalize things that make no sense what-so-ever. But seems extremely juvinial. It's like a security blanket or an imaginary friend.
I don't have a problem with religion when it's used as the basis for what's unkown. It's no different than the Celts or Egyptians who used religious metaphors to explain things. But when the facts are presented, the knowledge is there, and religion is continued to be used as an alternative or forced as the only choice to what is
real and factual... it pisses me off to no end.