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aorenny · Jan 16, 2006, 07:48 AM

Hello everyone, and cograts to those who got the new MacIntels. I ordered my MBP and can't wait to get it.

I am in desperate need to know if PGP Desktop is working with Rosetta. PGP is giving me corporate bs answers, so no clue if it will work. Can someone test it please? I will appreciate a lot. I can find an installer if you need.

ravenz · Jan 16, 2006, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by ravenz

Ok, more tests...

I attempted to boot the following operating systems all in three ways, boot with C key, boot with Option key, and attempt to select it from Startup Disk system preferences.

All tests FAILED.

Ubuntu 5.04 Live CD
Ubuntu 5.04 Install CD
Windows XP 2002 Edition Install CD
SUSE Linux 9.3 Professional Install DVD
SUSE Linux 9.3 Professional Install CD
Solaris 10 x86 03/05 Edition Install DVD
Solaris 10 x86 03/05 Edition Install CD
ParitionMagic 8.0 Install CD

The reality is, I'd prefer to run these OS'es in a virtual machine anyway and stay within Mac OS X. I think we're in a holding pattern now until VMWare or a similar solution is updated to support the iMac Intel.

Using the "D" key on restart also failed for all of the OS installers above. The iMac manual wants you to boot the hardware test CD using the "D" key.

rogerlabite · Jan 16, 2006, 10:27 AM

Do you advise to buy this machine or to await the next versions?

ravenz · Jan 16, 2006, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by rogerlabite

Do you advise to buy this machine or to await the next versions?

I'm impressed, so far. It really depends on what you want to do.

bartman00 · Jan 16, 2006, 10:34 AM

For the love of god someone open one up and take some good pix of the guts! I'm dying over here!

rogerlabite · 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by ravenz

I'm impressed, so far. It really depends on what you want to do.

Impeccable.
I do not use any specific application which cannot function with Rosetta.
I put myself questions about this new imac: machine with whole share or machine of transition (yonah ---> Conroe? When???) ?!

Agent69 · Jan 16, 2006, 10:48 AM

What I am curious about is the binaries included with Mac OS X itself (like Chess, Textedit, Preview). Are they all Intel binaries or did Apple leave most of them as PPC binaires and let them run them via Rosetta instead?

hanxu · Jan 16, 2006, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Agent69

What I am curious about is the binaries included with Mac OS X itself (like Chess, Textedit, Preview). Are they all Intel binaries or did Apple leave most of them as PPC binaires and let them run them via Rosetta instead?

I thought chess textedit preview had intel version when the first day it been compiled.

Simon · Jan 16, 2006, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by ravenz

The iMac manual wants you to boot the hardware test CD using the "D" key.

"D"? Interesting. D as in diagnostics? Or just D because it comes after C? How many partitions are on that CD?

jersey · Jan 16, 2006, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by bartman00

For the love of god someone open one up and take some good pix of the guts! I'm dying over here!

man... you need to leave 'nn for a minute or two... here are your pics

toddtmw · Jan 16, 2006, 11:36 AM

Well, I was checking the FedEx status page. This morning it arrived at my local facility (26 hours after it left Indianapolis to go to Cincinnati. I hit refresh and even though it still said delivery on Wednesday, it also said it w was on the truck, then the door bell rang!!!

It's here, I'm typing on my 20" iMac.

The Handbrake guy has been tweaking. The 11:45 build from last night gets over 30 fps doing h.264!!!

That is TRULY amazing! (Another forum member was combeplaining that thier iMac G5 only did 10.)

Anyway, only had it for a little less than an hour, but it is amazing.

Only issue so i far is the logitech keyboard drivers don't work, so I can't swap the alt and option keys. I'm also getting extra characters when I type. I'm thinking I'm going to have to hook up the Apple keyboard until logitech gets this fixed.

-Todd

Fdanna · Jan 16, 2006, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by toddtmw

Well, I was checking the FedEx status page. This morning it arrived at my local facility (26 hours after it left Indianapolis to go to Cincinnati. I hit refresh and even though it still said delivery on Wednesday, it also said it w was on the truck, then the door bell rang!!!

It's here, I'm typing on my 20" iMac.

The Handbrake guy has been tweaking. The 11:45 build from last night gets over 30 fps doing h.264!!!

That is TRULY amazing! (Another forum member was combeplaining that thier iMac G5 only did 10.)

Anyway, only had it for a little less than an hour, but it is amazing.

Only issue so i far is the logitech keyboard drivers don't work, so I can't swap the alt and option keys. I'm also getting extra characters when I type. I'm thinking I'm going to have to hook up the Apple keyboard until logitech gets this fixed.

-Todd

The key swap functionality is built in the OS. You don't need a third party driver to do this anymore. I'd tell you exactly where it is, but I'm on a windows pc at work. Should be in the keyboard control panel.

toddtmw · Jan 16, 2006, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Fdanna

The key swap functionality is built in the OS. You don't need a third party driver to do this anymore. I'd tell you exactly where it is, but I'm on a windows pc at work. Should be in the keyboard control panel.

Hey! That worked great! thanks!

cjno · Jan 16, 2006, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by toddtmw

The Handbrake guy has been tweaking. The 11:45 build from last night gets over 30 fps doing h.264!!!

That is TRULY amazing! (Another forum member was combeplaining that thier iMac G5 only did 10.)

Did you use same parameters ? H.264, AAC and 720x300 ?

HouseSold · Jan 16, 2006, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by toddtmw

Well, I was checking the FedEx status page. This morning it arrived at my local facility (26 hours after it left Indianapolis to go to Cincinnati. I hit refresh and even though it still said delivery on Wednesday, it also said it w was on the truck, then the door bell rang!!!

It's here, I'm typing on my 20" iMac.

The Handbrake guy has been tweaking. The 11:45 build from last night gets over 30 fps doing h.264!!!

That is TRULY amazing! (Another forum member was combeplaining that thier iMac G5 only did 10.)

Anyway, only had it for a little less than an hour, but it is amazing.

Only issue so i far is the logitech keyboard drivers don't work, so I can't swap the alt and option keys. I'm also getting extra characters when I type. I'm thinking I'm going to have to hook up the Apple keyboard until logitech gets this fixed.

-Todd

Congratulations !

What config did you order and get and what was your order date, since you received it today?

Did you XBench yet? (sounds like a gym workout

) Curious about your numbers before you add anything extra.

I believe RavenZ's is a 17"iSight iMacInTel, so his XBench and Handbrake scores may be a number or two under yours.

The only thing on all our Macs (PPC) I've noticed and not seen reported anywhere, is the operating temp is about 5 degreesC warmer with 10.4.4 than they were with 10.4.3.

I use a couple of utilities Hardware Monitor and Xgraph XRG (http://www.gauchosoft.com/) and have the before and after graphs saved to verify this. Not sure what Apple did though.

Interesting to hear all your observations too.

Enjoy

Eug Wanker · 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by ravenz

I attempted to boot the following operating systems all in three ways, boot with C key, boot with Option key, and attempt to select it from Startup Disk system preferences.

All tests FAILED.

Ubuntu 5.04 Live CD
Ubuntu 5.04 Install CD
Windows XP 2002 Edition Install CD
SUSE Linux 9.3 Professional Install DVD
SUSE Linux 9.3 Professional Install CD
Solaris 10 x86 03/05 Edition Install DVD
Solaris 10 x86 03/05 Edition Install CD
ParitionMagic 8.0 Install CD

Interesting thanks.

I wonder if the Windows Vista beta will work. (Does the beta support EFI?)

Originally Posted by Simon

"D"? Interesting. D as in diagnostics? Or just D because it comes after C? How many partitions are on that CD?

I'm not sure, but I always thought that "C" stood for "CD". If so, "D" probably just means "DVD".

Originally Posted by rogerlabite

Do you advise to buy this machine or to await the next versions?

Really depends on you. For me, I couldn't even if I wanted to.

There are a few must-have things for me that won't run on this machine:

1) Toast
2) Aperture <-- Won't be a problem in a couple of months
3) Probably drivers for printers and scanners, etc.

Actually, I could probably get away with an Intel Mac laptop now, since I usually run most of the must-have software on a G5 iMac anyway, but it would be a pain not having the above (especially Toast) on my laptop.

Thus, I will wait a while until I upgrade my laptop (which is fine since I want a 13" anyway, not a 15"). I also must have Virtual PC on the desktop but that won't run on an Intel Mac either (ironically). So, I will most definitely wait on the desktop too, until the above stuff gets ported to Intel OS X.

Office and Photoshop are also must-haves, but they run under Rosetta.

toddtmw · Jan 16, 2006, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by cjno

Did you use same parameters ? H.264, AAC and 720x300 ?

Yes. I'm not 100% sure on the video it was 720x something...can't look right now, it's encoding! I'll double-check when I'm done.

-Todd

rogerlabite · Jan 16, 2006, 12:39 PM

What config did you order?

Anand · Jan 16, 2006, 12:39 PM

Damn you all to hell!

I need a new car, a new kitchen and a new bike and now I WANT a new iMac! And I can't afford any of it!

toddtmw · Jan 16, 2006, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by HouseSold

Congratulations !

What config did you order and get and what was your order date, since you received it today?

Did you XBench yet? (sounds like a gym workout

) Curious about your numbers before you add anything extra.

I believe RavenZ's is a 17"iSight iMacInTel, so his XBench and Handbrake scores may be a number or two under yours.

The only thing on all our Macs (PPC) I've noticed and not seen reported anywhere, is the operating temp is about 5 degreesC warmer with 10.4.4 than they were with 10.4.3.

I use a couple of utilities Hardware Monitor and Xgraph XRG (http://www.gauchosoft.com/) and have the before and after graphs saved to verify this. Not sure what Apple did though.

Interesting to hear all your observations too.

Enjoy

It is a stock config. Everything else delayed the shipping time!!! I ordered it about 6 pm the day of the keynote. (Had to talk the wife into it and didn't think it would work as well over the phone.)

I'm going to run the photoshop test and xbench later today. (the wife is on it right now, plus it's still working on the handbrake job anyway...she still says it's snappy, even though it's doing handbrake and copying itunes songs and pictures from my old G4.) I was plugging something into the back and noticed the air wafting out of the top is warm, but both cpus are cranked at 100%. No noticable fan noise...

-Todd

toddtmw · Jan 16, 2006, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by rogerlabite

What config did you order?

stock. the bto options just made it take longer to ship!

Psikotic · Jan 16, 2006, 12:46 PM

Mine just arrived... 20", 2GB Ram and 256MB Video Upgrade...

BTW I seen somewhere someone had asked how much space the OS took up... I show 214.34GB Available, and 232.57GB Capacity... So there you have it...

HouseSold · Jan 16, 2006, 01:01 PM

Psikotic

What was your original order date for your BTO?

rogerlabite · Jan 16, 2006, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Psikotic

Mine just arrived... 20", 2GB Ram and 256MB Video Upgrade...

BTW I seen somewhere someone had asked how much space the OS took up... I show 214.34GB Available, and 232.57GB Capacity... So there you have it...

What is your first impression?

Eriamjh · Jan 16, 2006, 01:15 PM

These benchmarks are not showing the new Core Duo iMac as being twice as fast as the old G5. I'm already disappointed.

garyi · Jan 16, 2006, 01:20 PM

Hello. My first post.

firstly lets ignore the benchmark 'testing' lets get real world tests.

But my question to anyone with one in their hands, were you able to install existing printer drivers?

I have a canon wireless printer so the apple printer drivers will not work, plus they are more basic than the proper drivers from the manufacturers. I can live for a while without my Wacom and Scanner, but I really need my printer.

Cheers

icruise · Jan 16, 2006, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

There are a few must-have things for me that won't run on this machine:

1) Toast

I didn't know that Toast won't run on the Intel machines. Why is that?

baw · Jan 16, 2006, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Icruise

I didn't know that Toast won't run on the Intel machines. Why is that?

An older article from macfixit;

Consequently, Toast 7 does not currently run on Apple's prototype Intel Macs, either, as the Rosetta emulator supports only G3 instructions. Roxio plans to update Toast 7 to support Intel Macs at an unspecified date — and since Apple won't release its first Intel Macs for public sale until next year, we can't fault them. (We have anecdotal reports that Toast 6 runs fine on Intel Macs, and people with G3-based Macs will have to stick with Toast 6 for the time being, too.)

icruise · Jan 16, 2006, 01:46 PM

I still use Toast 5.2, so maybe I'm OK in this regard.

toddtmw · Jan 16, 2006, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by ravenz

Found the demo link on Adobe - 300MB. Let me go start the download process.

Can you point me oto the location of the demo? I wanted to run the test on the 20".

-Todd

Eug Wanker · Jan 16, 2006, 01:50 PM

postx2

Eug Wanker · Jan 16, 2006, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by baw

An older article from macfixit;

Consequently, Toast 7 does not currently run on Apple's prototype Intel Macs, either, as the Rosetta emulator supports only G3 instructions. Roxio plans to update Toast 7 to support Intel Macs at an unspecified date — and since Apple won't release its first Intel Macs for public sale until next year, we can't fault them. (We have anecdotal reports that Toast 6 runs fine on Intel Macs, and people with G3-based Macs will have to stick with Toast 6 for the time being, too.)

Hmmm... Interesting. I didn't know that's why Toast 7 didn't work. Interesting because:

1) There were rumours that Altivec got support in Rosetta a while back, and I did see mention in the Apple developer documentation that G4s (but not G5s) were supported by Rosetta, which suggests the rumours may be true. Can anyone confirm that Rosetta translates Altivec? Can anyone confirm that Toast 7 doesn't work in OS X 10.4.4 x86?

2) I still have a copy of Toast 6 around. I never got around to eB@ying it. Maybe my laziness was a good thing.

Can anyone confirm that Toast 6 works on Intel Macs? I prefer Toast 7, but Toast 6 would do if it's just for a few months.

Michael T. Doyle · Jan 16, 2006, 01:58 PM

Actually, this posting in Roxio's support forums notes that Toast 7.0.2 works in Rosetta, because some parts of the software (I would suppose the formerly G4-specific parts) are already Universal. The posting also says that a future, fully Universal update, will be made available as a free download. I don't know the veracity of this (the poster there doesn't seem to be a mod) but it sounds promising. Can anyone else confirm?

Eug Wanker · Jan 16, 2006, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Michael T. Doyle

Actually, this posting in Roxio's support forums notes that Toast 7.0.2 works in Rosetta, because some parts of the software (I would suppose the formerly G4-specific parts) are already Universal. The posting also says that a future, fully Universal update, will be made available as a free download. I don't know the veracity of this (the poster there doesn't seem to be a mod) but it sounds promising. Can anyone else confirm?

Cool. freshburn seems to be the Toast 7 guru there, so I'm optimistic. Still, I'd like to see confirmation too, so I posted a thread about this in the Applications forum.

If Toast 7 does work, I can go Intel on my laptop sooner rather than later... but I'm still waiting for that 13" widescreen McBook.

Intel on my desktop is going to be later rather than sooner though, because of drivers for peripherals and Virtual PC.

toddtmw · Jan 16, 2006, 02:12 PM

20" iMac xBench score is 58.74.

I'm not sure xBench is doifing a veroy good job testing this machine. I ran it a second time with activity monitor running and it only maxed one cpu (and then, only for a VERY brief time.) It doesn't look to me like it's really using both CPU's during the test.

Eug Wanker · Jan 16, 2006, 02:15 PM

Xbench does not make use of dual CPUs, and it's not great at comparing different classes of chips either. For example, the CPU score for my G4 1.7 Cube beats a Dual G5 2.0 Power Mac.

toddtmw · Jan 16, 2006, 02:48 PM

So, is there a better benchmarking tool?

ravenz · Jan 16, 2006, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by toddtmw

Can you point me oto the location of the demo? I wanted to run the test on the 20".

-Todd

http://www.adobe.com/products/tryadobe/main.jsp

toddtmw · Jan 16, 2006, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by garyi

Hello. My first post.

firstly lets ignore the benchmark 'testing' lets get real world tests.

But my question to anyone with one in their hands, were you able to install existing printer drivers?

I have a canon wireless printer so the apple printer drivers will not work, plus they are more basic than the proper drivers from the manufacturers. I can live for a while without my Wacom and Scanner, but I really need my printer.

Cheers

my HP PSC2500 works fine with the older drivers from HP's web site. I haven't tested scanning yet, but printing is working. (Over the wireless network connection too...)

-Todd

Psikotic · Jan 16, 2006, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by HouseSold

Psikotic

What was your original order date for your BTO?

I bought it the day they were released... originall said it wouldn't ship until Wednesday the 18th, but Friday I checked and it was being shipped from Shanghai China...

Originally Posted by rogerlabite

What is your first impression?

I love it, definently fast too... but I am comparing to my Powerbook 1.5Ghz G4...

Timetheus · Jan 16, 2006, 09:16 PM

going back to toast real quick - G4 apps work under rosetta, they're even supporting Altivec.

http://www.osx86project.org/index.ph...id=68&Itemid=2

I realize the it's listed as "unconfirmed," but the fact that apple says that only pro apps and apps requiring a G5 don't work under rosetta was proof enough for me.

"In a note to clients on Friday, American Technology Research analyst Shaw Wu said checks with sources indicate that the upcoming release of Mac OS X 10.4.4 for Intel runs well, with noticeable improvements to the Rosetta PowerPC emulation environment that improve backward compatibility with AltiVec support."

That was from AppleInsider
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1411

Timetheus · Jan 16, 2006, 09:30 PM

One more link:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1389

macintologist · Jan 16, 2006, 10:19 PM

Does the Intel iMac have a kensington security port in the back?

Dave Hagan · Jan 16, 2006, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by macintologist

Does the Intel iMac have a kensington security port in the back?

Yes it does.

macintologist · Jan 16, 2006, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Hagan

Yes it does.

The same kind the Powerbooks have? Where? I never see it in any of the photos.

goMac · Jan 16, 2006, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

These benchmarks are not showing the new Core Duo iMac as being twice as fast as the old G5. I'm already disappointed.

Most likely because the PowerPC side has Altivec for Quicktime and Quicktime for Intel has yet to be optimized for SSE3.

All in good time...

toddtmw · Jan 16, 2006, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by aorenny

Hello everyone, and cograts to those who got the new MacIntels. I ordered my MBP and can't wait to get it.

I am in desperate need to know if PGP Desktop is working with Rosetta. PGP is giving me corporate bs answers, so no clue if it will work. Can someone test it please? I will appreciate a lot. I can find an installer if you need.

I installed the demo, and it seemed to install fine. I don't usually use pgp, what in particular did you want me to test?

-Todd

toddtmw · Jan 16, 2006, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by macintologist

The same kind the Powerbooks have? Where? I never see it in any of the photos.

Right below the port for the power cord.

-Todd

mduell · Jan 16, 2006, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by macintologist

Does the Intel iMac have a kensington security port in the back?

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/whatsinside.html says: Security Kensington cable lock slot

betasp · Jan 16, 2006, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

These benchmarks are not showing the new Core Duo iMac as being twice as fast as the old G5. I'm already disappointed.

You should know that all of theose banchmarks rely on Rosetta and are not native code. I am impressed they can run emulated so fast.