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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning?

View Poll Results: Which do you have? (Choose only ONE. Includes stand-alones and game consoles.)
Poll Options:
HD DVD 34 votes (17.09%)
Blu-ray 87 votes (43.72%)
Both 14 votes (7.04%)
Neither 70 votes (35.18%)
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll
Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning? (Page 26)
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analogue SPRINKLES
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May 12, 2007, 03:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
I think the fact that Digital Video Essentials is the #5 seller on the HD-DVD side tends to support my theory that HD-DVD buyers are largely home theater buffs and not the general public.
good point.
     
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May 12, 2007, 03:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
I think the fact that Digital Video Essentials is the #5 seller on the HD-DVD side tends to support my theory that HD-DVD buyers are largely home theater buffs and not the general public. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it ties in with my prediction that the PS3 owners will start buying more movies when there are more big name releases out.)
That's the classic "Just wait until..." argument.

That said, I think there is merit in the argument that buying practices will change. However, I don't think the PS3 buyers are the answer. Blu-ray has to move standalones, and so far they simply have not been able to. I suspect there will be cheaper Blu-ray standalones in Q4 2007, but there will be cheaper HD DVD standalones then too, and probably lower priced than the Blu-ray players.
     
icruise
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May 12, 2007, 03:46 PM
 
I certainly agree that for Blu-ray to succeed they will have to get more reasonably priced standalone players out there. In a couple of years, when you can buy a Blu-ray player for ~$300 or less, the PS3's ability to play Blu-ray discs will be largely irrelevant (like the PS2's ability to play DVDs). But my point is that until then it will play a role, and a bigger one than you seem to think.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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May 12, 2007, 03:58 PM
 
     
Eug
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May 12, 2007, 04:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
I certainly agree that for Blu-ray to succeed they will have to get more reasonably priced standalone players out there. In a couple of years, when you can buy a Blu-ray player for ~$300 or less, the PS3's ability to play Blu-ray discs will be largely irrelevant (like the PS2's ability to play DVDs). But my point is that until then it will play a role, and a bigger one than you seem to think.
Don't get me wrong. I think the PS3's role is huge. Without it, Blu-ray wouldn't matter at all. However, if the guesstimates are correct that there is currently a 9:1 advantage of Blu-ray players (including the PS3) out there compared to HD DVD players, then it does show that the PS3's impact is nowhere near is large as Sony hyped it up to be, considering that year-to-date disc sales are only about 2:1.

Now, you say PS3 owners' buying habits may change with time, but I suggest that by the time that would happen, the PS3 will be a lot less relevant, for a number of reasons:

1) Blu-ray standalones will come into their own with significantly increased numbers.
2) HD DVD standalones will significantly increase in number as well.
3) Both HD DVD and Blu-ray standalones will be substantially cheaper than the PS3.
4) Combo players will be hitting the market, and likely will be priced close to the PS3 by next year.

In other words, the PS3's importance is now, and will only diminish with time. Unfortunately for Blu-ray, Sony hasn't been able to push as many PS3s as they had originally hoped. By brute force of millions of PS3 players out there, Blu-ray has achieved a 2:1 sales ratio for discs over HD DVD, but I'm pretty sure that the Blu-ray Association was hoping for a clean win, which would have been possible had disc sales been consistently closer to 5:1 and growing. That might have been achieved had Sony sold 6 million PS3s in 2006 like they said they would, but we all know what happened.
     
icruise
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May 12, 2007, 04:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
The article mentioned seems really fishy to me, since nobody can seem to find the original online (just people quoting it). One place that claimed to be linking to the Japanese article was in fact just linking to a general article about the console wars and PS3 that mentioned nothing whatsoever about the content of the article. I'm calling BS.
     
Montezuma58
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May 12, 2007, 04:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
I think the fact that Digital Video Essentials is the #5 seller on the HD-DVD side tends to support my theory that HD-DVD buyers are largely home theater buffs and not the general public. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it ties in with my prediction that the PS3 owners will start buying more movies when there are more big name releases out.)
I suspect DVE would also be a big seller for Blu-Ray if it were available on the format. I would hardly classify most people buying Blu-Ray movies at the moment as the general public either.
     
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May 12, 2007, 04:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Now, you say PS3 owners' buying habits may change with time, but I suggest that by the time that would happen, the PS3 will be a lot less relevant, for a number of reasons:

1) Blu-ray standalones will come into their own with significantly increased numbers.
2) HD DVD standalones will significantly increase in number as well.
3) Both HD DVD and Blu-ray standalones will be substantially cheaper than the PS3.
4) Combo players will be hitting the market, and likely will be priced close to the PS3 by next year.

In other words, the PS3's importance is now, and will only diminish with time.
Speaking of which...

The Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD player is now $283.05.



It also comes with 5 free HD DVDs from Toshiba.


Originally Posted by Montezuma58 View Post
I suspect DVE would also be a big seller for Blu-Ray if it were available on the format.
Likely true.

P.S. I'm not sure if I should bother getting it. I already have the DVD version, but the settings on my TV for HD are a bit different. I think I may just hold off for the moment, cuz I have my TV dialed in pretty close to where I want it anyway now.
     
icruise
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May 12, 2007, 05:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Montezuma58 View Post
I would hardly classify most people buying Blu-Ray movies at the moment as the general public either.
Well, actually I think they are (to the extent that someone spending $600 on a video game console can be considered a member of the "general public"). When you consider how expensive stand-alone players are at the moment, my (totally unsupported) guess is that most of the BR sales are to PS3 owners. While some people may have bought the PS3 primarily as a movie player, I think they are a definite minority. Most people buy the PS3 as a gaming machine that also happens to be able to play HD movies. These are the people who may buy something like Pirates of the Caribbean or Casino Royale, but are somewhat less likely to buy random catalog titles. My point is this: even with a library that doesn't really appeal to its core audience (assuming my theory is correct, and it's more the general public and not movie buffs), BR is outselling HD-DVD. When more big name titles like this come out (and BR's larger stable of studios will mean more big-name titles) BR sales will increase even more, perhaps dramatically.

There's a lot of speculation here, I'll admit.
     
icruise
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May 12, 2007, 05:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
P.S. I'm not sure if I should bother getting it. I already have the DVD version, but the settings on my TV for HD are a bit different. I think I may just hold off for the moment, cuz I have my TV dialed in pretty close to where I want it anyway now.
According to comments on Amazon's product page, DVE still doesn't work with the Xbox 360 drive, even after the new update.
     
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May 12, 2007, 05:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
According to comments on Amazon's product page, DVE still doesn't work with the Xbox 360 drive, even after the new update.
The update for DVE hasn't happened yet. That's next week or later.

The Dashboard update that came out this past week wasn't for HD DVD stuff.
     
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May 12, 2007, 05:14 PM
 
"I think the single greatest thing we can do right now is to not waffle, but to be very, very blunt about it, to continue our support of Blu-ray because we sense a real advantage. The best thing that could happen is for the format war to end, which will be very pro-consumer, particularly as hardware comes down.
The other thing I want to note is, if you look across the globe, the only place there is really a format war is in the United States. In other markets where next-gen DVD is starting to penetrate, Blu-ray is winning, and substantially; so much so there isn’t even a perceived format war."

Transcript: Disney CEO Iger Talks Up Blu-ray in Analyst Call | High-Def Digest
     
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May 12, 2007, 06:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
The other thing I want to note is, if you look across the globe, the only place there is really a format war is in the United States. In other markets where next-gen DVD is starting to penetrate, Blu-ray is winning, and substantially; so much so there isn’t even a perceived format war.
As others have said, that only is true if the only country outside the US is Japan.
     
Montezuma58
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May 12, 2007, 09:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Speaking of which...

The Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD player is now $283.05.



It also comes with 5 free HD DVDs from Toshiba.
That's getting close to the price I would like. When it gets to $250 I'd be happy getting one and renting movies. I'm still hesitant to plop down a bunch of money to build my own library of either format at the moment. The HD-XA2 prices have been wildly fluctuating on Amazon though. It was down to $519. Now it back up to almost $600.
     
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May 14, 2007, 09:49 AM
 
Sweet. The 25th anniversary edition of Blade Runner is coming to HD this year.

Warner confirmed this last year (as they own the rights now), for both HD DVD and Blu-ray, but we recently got reconfirmation at least on the HD DVD side: In the Matrix Trilogy Ultimate box set there is an insert saying that Blade Runner is due October 2007.


Disc 1 - The Final Cut (2007):

Ridley Scott's definitive new version of his science-fiction masterpiece includes added & extended scenes, added lines and new and cleaner special effects.

Disc 2 - 3 Complete Film Versions:
’82 U.S. Theatrical version
’82 International Theatrical version
’92 Director’s Cut

Disc 3 - “Dangerous Days: Making Blade Runner” Documentary

Newly created documentary: Through interviews with the cast and crew, critics and colleagues, this feature-length documentary provides a mainstream-friendly yet meaningful in-depth look at Blade Runner’s literary genesis, its challenging production and controversial legacy. When all is said and done, this will be the definitive documentary on the film.

Disc 4 – Enhanced Content Bonus: (TBC)

INCEPTION - Featurettes and galleries devoted to Philip K. Dick, the birth of Cyberpunk and adapting the novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep.
PRE-PRODUCTION - Featurettes and galleries devoted to script development, conceptual design and abandoned sequences.
PRODUCTION - Featurettes and galleries devoted to principal photography and locations.
POST-PRODUCTION - Featurettes and galleries devoted to deleted scenes, music and visual effects.
RELEASE - Featurettes and galleries devoted to marketing and reaction including Trailers, TV Spots and Promotional Featurettes
LEGACY - Featurettes and galleries devoted to the film’s resurrection and impact.

Disc 5 - Work Print Version & Enhanced Content:

Including the rarely seen Work Print version and potentially the 52 min.
Channel Four (UK) documentary which was the first serious documentary created for the film.
( Last edited by Eug; May 14, 2007 at 10:10 AM. )
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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May 14, 2007, 10:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Sweet. The 25th anniversary edition of Blade Runner is coming to HD this year.
Oh goodie. I could already see the wires holding up the flying taxies in the DVD version so I can't wait to see what HD reveals.
     
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May 14, 2007, 10:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Oh goodie. I could already see the wires holding up the flying taxies in the DVD version so I can't wait to see what HD reveals.
I knew you would post this.

Anyways, it's remastered, so it will be interesting to see what they do with the wires, if anything.

Whatever the case, it's a must buy for me... that is if it's good quality and the price is reasonable.
     
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May 14, 2007, 03:17 PM
 
I wonder if that includes all the content from the Criterion laserdisc that I used to have. In any case, I'll probably get it if it isn't too expensive, since it's probably my favorite movie.
     
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May 14, 2007, 05:06 PM
 
I'd definately be getting that.
     
goMac
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May 14, 2007, 05:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
"The other thing I want to note is, if you look across the globe, the only place there is really a format war is in the United States. In other markets where next-gen DVD is starting to penetrate, Blu-ray is winning, and substantially; so much so there isn’t even a perceived format war."
HD-DVD is actually doing better in Europe than it is in the U.S. I'm not sure what this U.S. only format war thing is about.
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Uriel
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May 14, 2007, 06:03 PM
 
The Dashboard update that came out this past week wasn't for HD DVD stuff.
I'm too tired to find the scources, however I was told to expect it out the 15th of May. Almost there.

Also Heroes is coming on HD-DVD in August. Woooohoo.
     
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May 14, 2007, 06:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uriel View Post
I'm too tired to find the scources, however I was told to expect it out the 15th of May. Almost there.

Also Heroes is coming on HD-DVD in August. Woooohoo.
The HD DVD Update shows up tomorrow (May 15) early morning around 5 am EST.
     
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May 15, 2007, 08:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uriel View Post
I'm too tired to find the scources, however I was told to expect it out the 15th of May. Almost there.

Also Heroes is coming on HD-DVD in August. Woooohoo.
That and BSG are the reasons I'm going with HD-DVD. I can't wait!

All glory to the hypnotoad.
     
mdc
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May 15, 2007, 09:07 AM
 
I'll be buying the Matrix and Blade Runner for sure.
I hope LOST comes to HD-DVD this season. I've been buying all of the DVD seasons since the show makes sense watching it again, but it'd be nice to have them on HD-DVD.
     
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May 15, 2007, 10:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
According to comments on Amazon's product page, DVE still doesn't work with the Xbox 360 drive, even after the new update.
Digital Video Essentials now reportedly works after today's update.

The Dolby Digital audio dynamics are also fixed. Here is the screen that controls this in the advanced options for the HD DVD menu for the 360.



Audio synchronization seems fine now too, or at least close enough.

This latest update is very nice.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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May 15, 2007, 10:19 AM
 
     
Eug
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May 15, 2007, 10:29 AM
 
Nice to see prices dropping, but IMO it's still far too expensive.
     
Uriel
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May 15, 2007, 10:48 AM
 
I can confirm that DVE works great now.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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May 15, 2007, 11:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Nice to see prices dropping, but IMO it's still far too expensive.
If you price each movie at $25 the player is only $475.

That is pretty damn good.
     
jokell82
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May 15, 2007, 11:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
If you price each movie at $25 the player is only $475.

That is pretty damn good.
And if you price the Toshiba HD-A2 the same way it only costs $158.05. What's your point?

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May 15, 2007, 12:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by mdc View Post
I hope LOST comes to HD-DVD this season. I've been buying all of the DVD seasons since the show makes sense watching it again, but it'd be nice to have them on HD-DVD.
One small problem... Lost --> ABC --> Disney = LONG wait.
     
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May 15, 2007, 01:30 PM
 
Yeah, Lost won't be coming to HD DVD any time soon.

I don't watch Lost, but nonetheless it'd be nice to have a combo player some time in 2008. I don't want to spend more than US$299 for a combo player though.
     
BrunoBruin
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May 15, 2007, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
If you price each movie at $25 the player is only $475.
Yes, but you don't get to pick the films. And I don't know about you, but I am not having "Fantastic Four" or "Crash" in my house.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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May 15, 2007, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
And if you price the Toshiba HD-A2 the same way it only costs $158.05. What's your point?
Hmm, if I had to guess I think the point would be that it is the cheapest BR player yet? With it you get a format with an advantage with studio support, features and titles.

What was this about HD-DVD you mention because I never compared it to it.
     
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May 15, 2007, 02:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by BrunoBruin View Post
Yes, but you don't get to pick the films. And I don't know about you, but I am not having "Fantastic Four" or "Crash" in my house.
Oh really? That sucks.

At least with the Toshiba, you can pick from a limited list of films.



P.S. Casablanca rocks in HD (to my surprise).
     
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May 15, 2007, 02:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
At least with the Toshiba, you can pick from a limited list of films.
I took "Chronicles of Riddick" as one of my free films. It's an appallingly bad movie, but the transfer is absolutely sensational - it may be the best-looking HD DVD in my collection. Amazingly sharp and detailed. I was really surprised by how good it looks.
     
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May 15, 2007, 02:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by BrunoBruin View Post
I took "Chronicles of Riddick" as one of my free films. It's an appallingly bad movie, but the transfer is absolutely sensational - it may be the best-looking HD DVD in my collection. Amazingly sharp and detailed. I was really surprised by how good it looks.
There are movies I think are stupid and I hate (like Spider-Man 3), but Riddick falls into the category of stupid movies I love. I might be biased though, cuz I really like Pitch Black.



However, I could fully understand if other people hated Riddick.

But yeah, Riddick looks absolutely stunning in HD. It's a reference title for video quality IMO.
     
BrunoBruin
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May 15, 2007, 02:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I might be biased though, cuz I really like Pitch Black.
I loved "Pitch Black" but one of the things that made it great was how much they did with so little. The problem with "Riddick" is how much time, effort and money they spent to achieve so little; it's a big shiny mess set on three completely different worlds and a big intergalactic war as the backdrop. Huh? We're watching "Alien," and somehow the sequel is "Dune."
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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May 15, 2007, 02:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Oh really? That sucks.

At least with the Toshiba, you can pick from a limited list of films.

That's one sucky list. Even though I didn't like Pirates that much I rather get #1 and 2 over all those HD titles together.

Considering they are some of the highest grossing movies ever and crash won tons of awards people generally might feel the same way.

I agree that transporter blows though and I though F4 was meh.

Oh and cheeky title:
http://www.destructoid.com/hd-dvd-up...ce-31543.phtml
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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May 15, 2007, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by BrunoBruin View Post
I loved "Pitch Black" but one of the things that made it great was how much they did with so little. The problem with "Riddick" is how much time, effort and money they spent to achieve so little; it's a big shiny mess set on three completely different worlds and a big intergalactic war as the backdrop. Huh? We're watching "Alien," and somehow the sequel is "Dune."
I didn't like PB but I did like much of Riddick.

Question though... does Riddick take place before of after PB? wasn't that black priest in both and die in both?
     
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May 15, 2007, 03:03 PM
 
Riddick is set after Pitch Black. The priest and the girl (and Riddick) were the only ones that survived in Pitch Black. I like Riddick better than Pitch Black, actually, although it definitely falls into the "guilty pleasure" category. I'm a sucker for sci-fi like that.
     
Eug
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May 15, 2007, 03:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
That's one sucky list. Even though I didn't like Pirates that much I rather get #1 and 2 over all those HD titles together.

Considering they are some of the highest grossing movies ever and crash won tons of awards people generally might feel the same way.

I agree that transporter blows though and I though F4 was meh.
To each his own.

I have zero interest in Pirates of the Caribbean, and I didn't like Crash much either. Actually, Pirates #1 is OK, but I really didn't like #2 much.

Transporter I put in the meh category, and Fantastic Four I have never actually seen so I can't comment on it.

Casablanca OTOH is awesome IMO. YMMV. However, besides Casablanca and Riddick, I'm not sure I'd buy any of the rest of those. I do like Apollo 13, but I've seen it too many times now.
     
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May 15, 2007, 04:07 PM
 
Well, "Riddick" won't get many more viewings from me anyway, with "Shaun of the Dead" and "300" coming in July and "Heroes" August 28. I'm really looking forward to "Heroes" as, for some reason, NBC is the ONE broadcast network I don't get in HD.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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May 15, 2007, 04:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Casablanca OTOH is awesome IMO.
I'm willing to bet you are the only one on the planet that owns both an Xbox 360 and Casablanca
( Last edited by analogue SPRINKLES; May 15, 2007 at 08:25 PM. )
     
Eug
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May 15, 2007, 08:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
It is a totally bogus report. The original site claimed the "news" came from Associated Press. So we checked with them and they said that they had never written such an article. And they were not pleased at all that their name was used this way.

So let me be very, very clear on this. There is not a sole at Microsoft that is even thinking of building a BD player for 360, let alone people actively working on it. We are behind HD DVD as optical formats go. And that is the end of the story.
     
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May 15, 2007, 08:15 PM
 
"Not a sole"?

Anyway, told you it was bogus.
     
Eug
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May 16, 2007, 01:09 PM
 
Toshiba USA is offering an nstant $100 rebate deal for part of May and June. This is on top of the 5 free HD DVDs.

WAYNE, NJ – May 16, 2007 – Just in time for Father’s Day, Toshiba America Consumer Products, L.L.C. (“Toshiba”) announces two new HD DVD promotions to help make shopping for dad easy.

NEW – Instant Rebates:

From May 20 through June 9, movie enthusiasts that purchase an HD-A2 HD DVD player will receive a $100 in-store instant rebate.
From June 10 through June 16, consumers that purchase any Toshiba HD DVD player will receive a $100 in-store instant rebate. For individuals seeking the complete home theater package, an HD DVD player can be purchased with any Toshiba 42" (measured diagonally) or larger HDTV for a $200 in-store instant rebate.

Five Free HD DVDs: Toshiba continues to offer its well accepted five free HD DVD movie mail-in offer promotion. Running through July 31, 2007, consumers who purchase any Toshiba HD DVD player can get five HD DVD titles for free. Consumers can choose the five free HD DVD movies from a selection of 15. This offer is available in conjunction with the previously listed promotions and rebates – full offer details are available at TOSHIBAHDDVD.COM.


I'm not sure if this covers Amazon.com purchases as well or not.

EDIT:

Wowsers. Some people are reporting that it indeed includes Amazon.com orders. Players there are already below $300, which means that we could see HD DVD players for under $200 this month with the rebate.

---

In other news...

BusinessWeek: Sony's PS3 Problems Cast a Long Shadow

Although the company had forecast global shipments of 6 million machines by the Mar. 31 end of its fiscal year, its factories made and sent off just 5.5 million. Worse, the actual number of PS3s in stores was closer to 3.6 million. The remaining 1.9 million were either sitting in warehouses or en route to stores, leaving as much as $1.1 billion in inventory.

The one-time king of gaming consoles now trails both of its chief rivals, Nintendo (NTDOY) and Microsoft (MSFT). Earlier this month Nintendo said it had shipped 5.84 million Wiis in the same four and one-half month period. Microsoft, which had a 12-month head start, upped its tally to 10.4 million units through March.
( Last edited by Eug; May 16, 2007 at 01:25 PM. )
     
jokell82
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May 16, 2007, 02:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Wowsers. Some people are reporting that it indeed includes Amazon.com orders. Players there are already below $300, which means that we could see HD DVD players for under $200 this month with the rebate.
That may actually get me to buy one instead of the XBox addon. Thanks for the info!

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Eug
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May 16, 2007, 03:01 PM
 
Hmmm... The Amazon.com price for the HD-A2 is now back up over $300 - currently US$320. Still, if the deal does indeed apply to the Amazon pricing, then that means they'll be A2s available for less than US$250, maybe $220.

I'm still trying to get confirmation on the Amazon.com part.

So, at worst, the player will go for $299 at places like Best Buy. At best, it could go for $220 at places like Amazon.

EDIT: Confirmed

The rebate will be available across a wide range of retailers, including Best Buy, Circuit City, HHGregg, Amazon.com and many others. The marketing and retail campaigns will also coincide with the Warner Home Video release of The Complete Matrix Trilogy and Letters from Iwo Jima, and the Paramount Home Entertainment release of Flags of Our Fathers on May 22nd, and will be supported by a multi-million dollar advertising campaign incorporating TV, online, newspaper, and radio.
     
goMac
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May 16, 2007, 03:21 PM
 
Sounds like HD-DVD is finally going to fight back against the Bluray push.
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