[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

I'm talking about announcing your products way before they're ready for release. The TouchPad will be released months after the iPad 2. Most of the features they are listing (video calling, dual-core processors, etc) will already be on the market.

True, that is an issue. Although we certainly don't know that the TouchPad will be out before or after the next iPad.

[ort888]

2:07
And here is Doug from our interface team to talk about the beveling on the + and - buttons on the web browser.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

True, that is an issue. Although we certainly don't know that the TouchPad will be out before or after the next iPad.

At this rate the next iPad will be out before the presentation is over.

[imitchellg5]

Oooh. webOS is coming to PCs!

[Stogieman]

Keynote is done. I guess they're not ready to announce pricing yet.

[The Final Dakar]

They waiting to see what the NGP debuts at.

[imitchellg5]

I think the Pre 3 is my next phone if it's available unlocked GSM.

[ort888]

No pricing and no solid launch date? Yikes.

[Stogieman]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

True, that is an issue. Although we certainly don't know that the TouchPad will be out before or after the next iPad.

The first day of summer is June 21st. I'm 99.99% sure the iPad 2 will be released a few months before that date. Let's just hope "available in summer" doesn't refer to the later half of summer.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

he TouchPad on the other hand looks great, but the apps look almost like carbon copies of the iPad's apps. Screen resolution could be a bit higher, but dual core 1.2 GHz processors and 2 Gb of RAM is impressive to say the least.

It's 1 GB of RAM. I liked how they kept putting "twice as much as the Pre 2" up on the tech sheets.

Apparently the Pre 2 had 512. I had to look it up. Why not just say 1 gig? I don't get it.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

The first day of summer is June 21st. I'm 99.99% sure the iPad 2 will be released a few months before that date. Let's just hope "available in summer" doesn't refer to the later half of summer.

Well, the Pre went on sale the very last day of summer and they promised a summer release...

Originally Posted by ort888 

It's 1 GB of RAM. I liked how they kept putting "twice as much as the Pre 2" up on the tech sheets.

Apparently the Pre 2 had 512. I had to look it up. Why not just say 1 gig? I don't get it.

Oh oops. For some reason I thought the Pre 2 had 1 Gb.

[ort888]

Palm USA | Palm TouchPad Phone | Features, Details

How apple-like does this page look? It's almost a shameless ripoff.

[OreoCookie]

I think iMitchell nailed it: a lot of what Rubinstein has shown off looks like a copy, but a rather good one. That includes the style of slides (blackish background, simple), if Rubinstein started wearing turtle necks, this'd be a proper Steve-note.

I'll have to peruse the specs of the devices and look at the photos/videos of webOS on tablets as well as details about their SDK.

It's such a pity the phones still have physical keyboards, otherwise I'd be really tempted to get a Palm Pre 3 this fall (haven't they learnt anything between 2007 and now, the vast majority of smartphones that are sold do not have a physical keyboard). Now it'll be an iPhone 5.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I think iMitchell nailed it: a lot of what Rubinstein has shown off looks like a copy, but a rather good one. That includes the style of slides (blackish background, simple), if Rubinstein started wearing turtle necks, this'd be a proper Steve-note.

Well, to be fair, Rubinstein was an Apple exec until April 2006, and HP is literally across the street from Apple.

[freudling]

This seemed like a really cheap imitation of an Apple keynote. It lacked substance and vision from the speakers.

Looking at Palm Pres and the HP slate desktop "all-in-ones", HP-Palm has hardly any idea what they're doing. The only thing I like is the tablet, and that's cool. But with all their money and people, you would think they'd have this by now.

A physical slide out keyboard? Are you bloody kidding me? Ok, those Blackberry users can jump in and say physical keyboards are the best. I hate them. I'm faster virtual, and so are others I know. I can't generalize from this but seriously, is it even a question anymore of just going all screen sans keyboard on a flagship smartphone? Obviously, adding a slide-out keyboard makes the device thicker and compromises the design for starters.

To me, slide-out keyboards are totally superfluous to modern multi-touch smartphones. It's like taping a typewriter to a bluetooth earpiece. Come on HP-Palm, this is 2011!

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Well, to be fair, Rubinstein was an Apple exec until April 2006, and HP is literally across the street from Apple.

It wasn't meant as a criticism, if you know where Rubinstein is coming from then you know that this is his style as well. (Except for those little keyboards, of course, Steve hates those!)

Does anyone know where I can watch the whole keynote, has it been uploaded anywhere?

[imitchellg5]

It may show up here at HP's video website under the "Events" tab: HP Corporate TV: Videos and Podcasts

Edit: Here it is: Link

[Shaddim]

Word now is $499 for the 16GB wifi only PlayBook, falling in line with iPad pricing. If the TouchPad starts at more than $500 it will fail, no matter what's under the hood.

[freudling]

More I think about it the more I realize that these guys have no real strategy. Rubinstein kept saying business phone. That's old thinking. The overlap between consumer computers and business computers happened long ago. For this reason, thinking that you're going to market a smartphone to business people is pretty stupid, especially when RIM is still clinging to that... All multi-touch smartphones are business-class phones... because the operating systems allow for virtually an endless array of applications. That's my point.

In addition, these phone designs are the same as their original Pre's! Sure, the screens are bigger, but the same plastic clunkers. Did they not learn anything from the market reaction to them? This is 2011... you know, thin, large-screen only mobile devices with multi-touch are selling like wildfire.

All they're doing here is clinging to old ideas and old business models that's going to result in them failing out. Go for the gold, market to the world, and don't be so pompous as to say your devices are for businesses. HP didn't spend $1 billion + to have you cramp the progress of WebOS.

Rubinstein needs to go, with all due respect.

Good luck guys, but it looks like they have set sail for fail. With smartphones anyway. The tablet is another story...

[Brien]

Wow. The TouchPad looks cool, but if that isn't a blatent iPad rip-off I don't know what is. Same physical size, same screen resolution, same button placement (it even has a home button!). Except it's plastic.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Brien 

Wow. The TouchPad looks cool, but if that isn't a blatent iPad rip-off I don't know what is. Same physical size, same screen resolution, same button placement (it even has a home button!). Except it's plastic.

That's not a home button... webOS doesn't have a home screen.

[driven]

Lots of stuff I liked.

Stuff I didn't like:
- Lack of release date
- Lack of pricing

Stuff that makes me go "huh"? (Curious enough to find out more about, but sort of a WTF?)
- WebOS on laptops
- WebOS on desktops

[OreoCookie]

I've seen a third of the keynote and I'm very impressed with the touchPad. It puts Honeycomb to shame: stacking apps like cards has been taken to the next level! (This is a feature I've loved about webOS since its inception and I don't understand why Apple isn't copying this.)

[freudling]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I've seen a third of the keynote and I'm very impressed with the touchPad. It puts Honeycomb to shame: stacking apps like cards has been taken to the next level! (This is a feature I've loved about webOS since its inception and I don't understand why Apple isn't copying this.)

Wow, I can't believe somebody else on here is actually excited about WebOS. I've been saying this all along. Nobody seems to want to believe it, but in a lot of ways, WebOS makes iOS look like a 1 trick pony. Seeing is believing...

[Big Mac]

You're really not impressed by Honeycomb? It seems like a big advance for Android (although apparently it's not coming to handsets?)

[Paco500]

My thoughts:

There is so much that is right here and I wish Apple would just steal. The things I like most are the tight integration between the phone, tablet and eventually printers/laptops/desktops. Smart. The notifications system is also worlds better than iOS. I like the touchstones- wonder is they could be licensed and used by 3rd parties for docks, music players/etc.

What was fine, but overall meh- the multi-tasking is better conceptually that iOS, however, in my mind, not better enough for be to sacrifice performance and speed. I don't have issues with the multi-tasking on either iPad or iPhone, so not a big deal to me.

What I thought was well wrong and likely to spell doom (or at least zero impact on the market) has been discussed before. The phones are crap. The form factor, the specs, the keyboard- no really market for it. If they wanted to keep the signature model, great, but if they are going to blatantly copy the iPad design, why not copy the iPhone as well. Also, the specs seem pretty good now, but will be run-of-the mill by the time phone comes to market. The design and and name "touchpad" just scream of Apple/iPad me-too-ism and envy and will not help- would not be shocked if apple went after them legally for it (though I doubt it will happen- just would not be surprised).

The things that make the tablet better than the iPad will not, expect, be enough to give it any market share anytime soon. The mindshare and eco-system around the iPad is just too great to be disrupted by something that is better only in a few areas and not as good in others and will likely cost the same or more. For the most part, people that don't want an iPad will go for a honeycomb device.

I have a good friend who is an analyst in the mobile space and who had a one-on-one briefing on these things last week (but didn't tell me about it until last night) and his feedback is interesting. He doesn't think the phone is going to sell anything and doesn't think HP are really behind it- just a bone thrown to the palm guys. They care about the tablet and, apparently are going to break the bank advertising it. If HP can keep the faith and keep it relevant long enough for an eco-system to form around it, it may someday be an iOS competitor- but I doubt it.

Good effort- really nice in so many ways. So was the cube.

[Big Mac]

Apple did hire the software designer of WebOS's notification system, thankfully. I don't know what touchstones are in this context.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Wow, I can't believe somebody else on here is actually excited about WebOS. I've been saying this all along. Nobody seems to want to believe it, but in a lot of ways, WebOS makes iOS look like a 1 trick pony. Seeing is believing...

Well, then all you need to do is go back and search for posts of mine on webOS, e. g. when it was first released: I said that this is the first iOS/iPhone competitor with several original elements (multitasking via the cards metaphor which has been copied by at least RIM and synergy, the feature that MS touts in Windows Phone 7). I have no idea why Palm wasn't more successful with the Pre, even though I very much prefer webOS to Android.

I can tell that whoever designed this has a good sense of taste. I don't think webOS makes iOS look like a one-trick pony, there are things that iOS does better, but webOS is not a (bad) copy of iOS. The stacked cards metaphor to do multitasking is putting Apple's interface to multitasking to shame.

Also the `cloud'/cross-device-integration aspect is very nice and I just hope that Apple will use its new data center for stuff like this.

If I were in the market for a tablet (I'm not, I will move twice this year and need a new camera body), I'd seriously consider the touchPad. The Pre 3 is a no-go for me due to the hardware keyboard (I need to be able to write in Japanese -- which I can easily do on my iPod touch). OS-wise it looks very good as well.

Watching the keynote (and I haven't even finished it yet!), I get the impression that this may be a Big Thing™ for HP and they're willing to bet a substantial part of their company on it. Perhaps Rubinstein is their Steve Jobs? I hope so, I don't want a monopoly (especially a monopoly of mediocrity akin to Windows).

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

You're really not impressed by Honeycomb? It seems like a big advance for Android (although apparently it's not coming to handsets?)

I'm not, I got the impression it was a `me too release.' Don't get me wrong, it is a big step forward for the Android ecosystem and it'll enable device makers to make truly useful tablet devices that are supported by an ecosystem. For one reason or another, Android never got me excited, it seems too much of a `me too product.' (I know that Android does have some nice aspects to it, e. g. the sophisticated notification system, but from an end user perspective, I don't think this matters much.)

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Paco500 

Good effort- really nice in so many ways. So was the cube.

I don't understand why people don't appreciate the Cube more: Apple has learnt a lot, lot by making this thing work, and the knowledge was helpful in building all sorts of future products (e. g. how to keep so many components in such a tiny space cool or how to make such beautiful-looking plastic exterior (which was then used when they made the first- and second-gen iPod)). Failure is sometimes a good thing.

[-Q-]

Originally Posted by driven 

Stuff that makes me go "huh"? (Curious enough to find out more about, but sort of a WTF?)
- WebOS on laptops
- WebOS on desktops

HP has been at the mercy of Microsoft and their OSes for 20 years now. I think they're going to try and build their own consumer electronics ecosystem akin to Apple's.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by -Q- 

HP has been at the mercy of Microsoft and their OSes for 20 years now. I think they're going to try and build their own consumer electronics ecosystem akin to Apple's.

… and interestingly enough, there are currently ~4 serious contenders (Apple's iOS, Google's Android, HP's webOS and RIM's BlackBerry OS 6) for tablet devices -- and not one of them is from Microsoft!

[mattyb]

Do you guys (and gals) honestly think that there will be the apps that we have for webOS?

No, don't go down the '90% of stuff on the X Marketplace is shite' route. Thats not important.

I mean are people going to jump onto webOC like they have for iOS and Android? I can't see it personally.

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I don't understand why people don't appreciate the Cube more: Apple has learnt a lot, lot by making this thing work, and the knowledge was helpful in building all sorts of future products (e. g. how to keep so many components in such a tiny space cool or how to make such beautiful-looking plastic exterior (which was then used when they made the first- and second-gen iPod)). Failure is sometimes a good thing.

Point taken- however, this was not a criticism of the cube, but rather to illustrate that a product can be groundbreaking and well designed and still not be successful in the marketplace. The cube was very successful as an engineering and design study, but not as a product.

Obviously, it's not a one-to-one directly comparison, but my gut tells me that even though the WebOS devices may raise the bar, not many will care and less will buy. Much like the cube.

[Hawkeye_a]

Pros:
-I think they delivered a very decent competitor to the iPad (if the price is competitive)
-I've always liked the Pre, it's size seems better suited for my pocket. And it's industrial design can IMHO rival Apple's.
-WebOS, is looking great, i really like the UI, although it looks like they need to optimize the heck out of it.
-I was kind of surprised to see notifications on the PalmPad, it almost looks like the Apple menubar across the top. Personally i prefer the way notifications was handled before.
-I can actually picture myself owning that tiny phone (Veer(?)). For what i need of these devices that size and weight would be awesome (although the equally tiny keyboard might not be adequate)
-PalmPad, obviously mimicking the iPad's industrial design, but looks good as well (especially when compared to the other crap that was announced by other companies).

CONS:
-Rubenstein isn't a good presenter (still better than most silly valley execs IMHO)
-No price or date, while obviously a strategic move until competitors(Apple) releases it's info on iPad2, does take some sizzle out of the presentation
-They need to provide something similar to iTunes on Macs and PCs for syncing and content management. Without that link, it doesn't matter how great the device is, people will dread using it.

WebOS for desktops&laptops ? why on earth would they want to invest in an area already well catered for (Windows, Mac, Linux) ? Porting a desktop OS to a touch device was obviously a bad idea, i wouldnt imagine going the other way to be any better either. IMHO they should have focused the entire presentation on the PalmPad.

Cheers

[OreoCookie]

At least we know that a company is behind it which has a lot of money and seems very invested in this strategy. The first few slides say it all: $160 billion market (while I have no idea whether this figure is accurate or not, it tells me HP is very serious about this endeavor).

[ort888]

I finally saw some footage of the TouchPad in action and it was incredibly sluggish. I hope that's just because it's so early and is not indicative of the final product.

Everything the presenter was doing was about .5 seconds behind what he was touching. There was a delay when turning pages in the ebook reader... breaking out a new multitasking page or whatever had a delay of about 3 seconds. It was painful to watch.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Do you guys (and gals) honestly think that there will be the apps that we have for webOS?

No, don't go down the '90% of stuff on the X Marketplace is shite' route. Thats not important.

I mean are people going to jump onto webOC like they have for iOS and Android? I can't see it personally.

Since HP bought Palm they have definitely been courting developers. The problem with Palm as a company is that they couldn't afford to offer discounts to developers much less send developers free devices. HP has been doing just that. At the risk of my NDA, HP are putting more effort into attracting developers to this platform than I've ever seen. Also, there are certain elements of webOS 2.0 that make it easier to port iOS apps to webOS (which has always been fairly easy anyway). I'm not saying that there will be a flood of developers to webOS, but not that webOS is actually on more competitive hardware I think we'll see more developers take an interest in the platform.

[OreoCookie]

Ok, I just finished watching the presentation and I must say, kudos. I hope HP makes webOS into a successful product To be honest, I was expecting less.

Regarding Rubinstein's rhetorical abilities, I thought he did alright, he had problems to get the people going in the beginning, but they got into it -- especially after seeing some of the nifty things their tablet can do. I wouldn't mind watch more (but shorter) keynotes of him, presenting us with more advanced versions of webOS and such.

[driven]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Do you guys (and gals) honestly think that there will be the apps that we have for webOS?

No, don't go down the '90% of stuff on the X Marketplace is shite' route. Thats not important.

I mean are people going to jump onto webOC like they have for iOS and Android? I can't see it personally.

I'll reiterate: There has been very little corporate adoption of Android. There has been only a small handful of commercial software successes on Android. Their main claim to fame has been that they are the "alternative" platform to iOS and have greater availability. In that not iOS/not at&t market, they've had virtually no competition.

I think there is ample opportunity for folks such as HP & Microsoft to come to the table with WebOS & maybe WinPhone 7 and present a unified platform with strong developer tools, enterprise support, and a strong company behind them.

I don't think the game's been decided yet. In fact, we are still in the first quarter.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I can tell that whoever designed this has a good sense of taste. I don't think webOS makes iOS look like a one-trick pony, there are things that iOS does better, but webOS is not a (bad) copy of iOS. The stacked cards metaphor to do multitasking is putting Apple's interface to multitasking to shame.

First, can you list some things that iOS does better than WebOS? Second, I would say that the reason the Pre didn't get much traction on the market was because of its design/hardware. People don't want little plastic clunkers. It's been demonstrated by both the Pre, Kin, and others. People want large screens with thin designs. I'll be most people are shifting into the "I don't need a physical keyboard" area.

[imitchellg5]

The Kin's failure and the Pre's relative failure are completely unrelated.

[Spheric Harlot]

Yep.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by freudling 

First, can you list some things that iOS does better than WebOS?

Well, yes, but in all fairness, I obviously haven't had my hands on a webOS 2 device yet and we should compare a Pre 3 or touchPad with whatever Apple is selling then. That being said, here's my list:

• The iTunes ecosystem. Music. Apps. Videos. Podcasts.
• I can stream music to my stereo via my Airport express station. And I can use my iPod touch as a remote. (That's a very big deal for me, a few years ago I was trying to build a touch-based home stereo system. Didn't work.)
• Games. (I'm not really a big gamer, but I rejoiced when I bought Monkey Island 1 and 2, happy memories )

Most of the things that come to my mind have yet to be tested, though:

• Check out the music player app.
• Overall speed. (Some of the demos seemed kinda choppy at times, but I'll wait for the final release to make up my mind.)
• iOS devices have very good battery life. Since one of webOS' most promising and prominent features is multitasking, I'm curious to see how that affects battery life.
• I'd like to check out the internals: what are the basic internals? iOS and OS X have quite a few nice new technologies that may prove very useful in the future. This is not something that is apparent on the surface, but may be crucial for developers to be able to build certain apps.
• How'd you develop for webOS? `Can you build apps like DJay?*'
• How would I go about syncing photos in my Aperture library?
• What kind of progress does Apple make until then with respect to the cloud and syncing?
• Options for navigation?

* That is not to be underestimated, parts of iOS' QuickTime implementations are apparently more advanced than their 10.6 counterparts.

Originally Posted by freudling 

Second, I would say that the reason the Pre didn't get much traction on the market was because of its design/hardware.

I don't buy that. It's perhaps one reason, but I just don't think it's a sufficient reason to explain the lack of interest. I was disappointed to be honest to see what I thought was a good product then fail.

Originally Posted by freudling 

I'll be most people are shifting into the "I don't need a physical keyboard" area.

Absolutely, I'm disappointed they stuck to physical keyboards after seeing where the market went.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Since HP bought Palm they have definitely been courting developers. The problem with Palm as a company is that they couldn't afford to offer discounts to developers much less send developers free devices. HP has been doing just that. At the risk of my NDA, HP are putting more effort into attracting developers to this platform than I've ever seen. Also, there are certain elements of webOS 2.0 that make it easier to port iOS apps to webOS (which has always been fairly easy anyway). I'm not saying that there will be a flood of developers to webOS, but not that webOS is actually on more competitive hardware I think we'll see more developers take an interest in the platform.

Interesting, cheers for the info.

Originally Posted by driven 

I'll reiterate: There has been very little corporate adoption of Android. There has been only a small handful of commercial software successes on Android. Their main claim to fame has been that they are the "alternative" platform to iOS and have greater availability. In that not iOS/not at&t market, they've had virtually no competition.

I think there is ample opportunity for folks such as HP & Microsoft to come to the table with WebOS & maybe WinPhone 7 and present a unified platform with strong developer tools, enterprise support, and a strong company behind them.

I don't think the game's been decided yet. In fact, we are still in the first quarter.

I agree, its early days, but I don't share your confidence in HP.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Well, yes, but in all fairness, I obviously haven't had my hands on a webOS 2 device yet and we should compare a Pre 3 or touchPad with whatever Apple is selling then. That being said, here's my list:

• The iTunes ecosystem. Music. Apps. Videos. Podcasts.
• I can stream music to my stereo via my Airport express station. And I can use my iPod touch as a remote. (That's a very big deal for me, a few years ago I was trying to build a touch-based home stereo system. Didn't work.)
• Games. (I'm not really a big gamer, but I rejoiced when I bought Monkey Island 1 and 2, happy memories )

Most of the things that come to my mind have yet to be tested, though:

• Check out the music player app.
• Overall speed. (Some of the demos seemed kinda choppy at times, but I'll wait for the final release to make up my mind.)
• iOS devices have very good battery life. Since one of webOS' most promising and prominent features is multitasking, I'm curious to see how that affects battery life.
• I'd like to check out the internals: what are the basic internals? iOS and OS X have quite a few nice new technologies that may prove very useful in the future. This is not something that is apparent on the surface, but may be crucial for developers to be able to build certain apps.
• How'd you develop for webOS? `Can you build apps like DJay?*'
• How would I go about syncing photos in my Aperture library?
• What kind of progress does Apple make until then with respect to the cloud and syncing?
• Options for navigation?

* That is not to be underestimated, parts of iOS' QuickTime implementations are apparently more advanced than their 10.6 counterparts.

I don't buy that. It's perhaps one reason, but I just don't think it's a sufficient reason to explain the lack of interest. I was disappointed to be honest to see what I thought was a good product then fail.

Absolutely, I'm disappointed they stuck to physical keyboards after seeing where the market went.

Thanks for posting... I have to admit though, I stopped reading after you said you haven't even used WebOS 2.0.

[driven]

Good article on one strategy that HP intends to use in attracting developers to WebOS:

HP dangles developer carrot with WebOS PCs | Relevant Results - CNET News

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by freudling 

First, can you list some things that iOS does better than WebOS? Second, I would say that the reason the Pre didn't get much traction on the market was because of its design/hardware. People don't want little plastic clunkers. It's been demonstrated by both the Pre, Kin, and others. People want large screens with thin designs. I'll be most people are shifting into the "I don't need a physical keyboard" area.

Personally, i really like the look of the Pre, the design was simple, curvy and looked like a perfect fit for a pocket (which is all i want in a phone). The iPhone is a little big IMHO, but something i can put up with. As far as the keyboard, while i think it's pretty unnecessary at this point, i think they implemented it fairly elegantly. I have heard reports that the Pre felt "cheap" and poorly constructed..kinda "plastic".

Why did the Pre fail ? IMHO, Palm didn't have the resources to supply and market the device appropriately. I remember when they announced it at CES, people were excited, and when they started shipping, people couldn't find them due to poor supply. I haven't even heard of the device being sold outside N.America, and i never saw a single print or TV ad for the device.

Business wise, they should have announced a release day for the devices in N.America, and when they will start shipping it to other markets. The lack of confidence in Palm was mostly supply related (low supply, poor international presence, etc). HP has the muscle and the channels to bring these devices to a much larger audience faster and cheaper. They should have announced some of their plans to do that. IMHO

Kin....no comparison...cheap, poorly designed, no-use, no exceptional feature...and poorly marketed and advertised. The text book case for making a selling a poor product. IMHO

Cheers

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Well, yes, but in all fairness, I obviously haven't had my hands on a webOS 2 device yet and we should compare a Pre 3 or touchPad with whatever Apple is selling then. That being said, here's my list:
The iTunes ecosystem. Music. Apps. Videos. Podcasts.

Definitely lacking on webOS, apart from movies which will soon be coming to a special store.

I can stream music to my stereo via my Airport express station. And I can use my iPod touch as a remote. (That's a very big deal for me, a few years ago I was trying to build a touch-based home stereo system. Didn't work.)

webOS is actually strong here. We all know the time when Palm devices could sync with iTunes, but nobody seemed to notice that you could (and still can) use any webOS device to control iTunes.

Games. (I'm not really a big gamer, but I rejoiced when I bought Monkey Island 1 and 2, happy memories )

Gaming was a strong point of webOS back in 2009 when webOS was the only app to offer 3D gaming, but they've failed to innovate. The new phones still don't have a gyroscope, but the TouchPad does.

Check out the music player app.

It's of average quality. One nice feature is the audio controls that are available anytime something is playing at the bottom of the screen. Not as nasty as Android's media player, not as polished as Apple's.

Overall speed. (Some of the demos seemed kinda choppy at times, but I'll wait for the final release to make up my mind.)

I suspect that's because it's a fresh device. For some reason when I got my Pre Plus it was horrifically slow. After about the first day it was plenty quick. Just Type spends a lot of time indexing things when you first get a device and as you add content (very similar to Spotlight on OS X).

iOS devices have very good battery life. Since one of webOS' most promising and prominent features is multitasking, I'm curious to see how that affects battery life.

Battery life for me on my Pre Plus (which is overclocked right now to 1 GHz) is pretty good. I charged it yesterday at 2pm and just put it on the charger at 8pm today. That said, I'm not a power user (I'm tired of the small screen) right now. However, multitasking doesn't seem to hurt battery life as much as having a tiny battery does (1350 mAh in the case of my Pre).

I'd like to check out the internals: what are the basic internals? iOS and OS X have quite a few nice new technologies that may prove very useful in the future. This is not something that is apparent on the surface, but may be crucial for developers to be able to build certain apps.

I'm not sure how much is public about this as of now, but one word: Enyo. I'll check and see what's been released information wise.

How'd you develop for webOS? `Can you build apps like DJay?*'

Yes. Palm has a SDK called PDK that they provide for free to anyone who registers (for free) as a standard-level Palm developer. It includes thousands of APIs as you'd expect and some very low-level integration with system services.

How would I go about syncing photos in my Aperture library?

When you plug in a webOS device into your computer via USB you have the option for it to show up as a USB thumb drive. You simply drag and drop all the media you want onto the image. One thing that's very slick is if you drop multiple folders of photos into the device, the device will respect the folders and their hierarchy. This works for music too.

Options for navigation?

webOS allows turn-by-turn navigation, although there aren't any big names out there in the App Catalog. There are a few good options though.

Hopefully this answers a few of your questions.

[freudling]

While I think HP-Palm's presentation is a bit of a copy of Apple's events... I don't think WebOS is just a copy of iOS. If anything, Apple basically copied Palm. Remember the Palm OS? Well, looking at my Tungsten, there's really no difference looking at the homescreen of it and an iOS powered iPhone. Yes, yes, I know the iPhone has way more tech, high res screen, but that's not the point. iOS is Palm OS, just repurposed with added features. And what is the modern Palm OS? Newton OS, just in color. So there you have it. Palm copied Apple, then, Apple sort of copied Palm again. It helped that there was market acceptance for their Treo: Palm OS on a phone you say? Apple wasn't the first.

And don't even get me started. Symbian was out long before the iPhone. You could buy and download Apps on Nokia smartphones years before the iPhone.

Anyway, they brought multi-touch to the game so kudos to Apple for that, plus great design.

WebOS is the next generation Palm OS and, if you've ever used it, you'd know how it runs circles around iOS. During the pres. you can see stuff that the current iOS can only dream of. For instance, dragging Emails over into a stack to access them later; getting a macro view of your open Apps by swiping through cards; layering important chunks of windows into stacks; real pop ups from other Apps that overlay on the currently running App... Then there's the brilliant sync between the phone and the Tablet, where the tablet can show text messages from the phone... the phone can display the same webpage as the tablet... That's brilliant... iOS does none of this.

What I see is that the Palm tablet will be competition for the iPad. Palm will get about 20% marketshare with it, Android 15%, RIM 10%, and the iPad will take 50%, remaining for other category. Palm could get more, too. That's because Android and RIM have a bit to go before they are refined enough to really compete in the tablet space. WebOS is very refined, and HP-Palm have basically the best designed tablet computer right now. The thing that separates HP-Palm from others is that they operate like Apple here. 1 device, tightly conjoined with the software. It's no surprise that they're able to innovate like this.

Consumers will gravitate toward this HP-Palm tablet because it's very user friendly and very refined. It's Apple quality, in some cases... things look even better on WebOS. The wireless charging and device wireless sync are also going to help it along. That was really cool.

I bet that when the tablet hits store shelves people are going to be blown away by WebOS on it. The thing that I don't know is what iOS 5 will bring in the end. It had better bring a ton of new stuff and multi-tasking, because with WebOS and Honeycomb lurking, the iOS as we know it is simply way too two dimensional for people to stick around. When you use these other multi-tasking operating systems, the increased productivity and efficiency make you never want to go back to something like iOS in its current form.

Now, Apple has all the Apps. And they have great design. I think WebOS will gain a lot of speed with developers because it's that good. This time next year, I predict WebOS will be a dominant platform for tablets. Apple, get that iOS 5 out, your 1 trick pony OS isn't going to cut the mustard for much longer.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

While I think HP-Palm's presentation is a bit of a copy of Apple's events... I don't think WebOS is just a copy of iOS. If anything, Apple basically copied Palm. Remember the Palm OS? Well, looking at my Tungsten, there's really no difference looking at the homescreen of it and an iOS powered iPhone. Yes, yes, I know the iPhone has way more tech, high res screen, but that's not the point. iOS is Palm OS, just repurposed with added features. And what is the modern Palm OS? Newton OS, just in color. So there you have it. Palm copied Apple, then, Apple sort of copied Palm again. It helped that there was market acceptance for their Treo: Palm OS on a phone you say? Apple wasn't the first.

The entire industry is based off the Newton.

Palm just killed off all the advanced features and made the PDA (Apple coined that term, as well) affordable.

Originally Posted by freudling 

And don't even get me started. Symbian was out long before the iPhone. You could buy and download Apps on Nokia smartphones years before the iPhone.

"Being able to" and "wanting to" are, in this case, on opposite sides of an ocean.

Apple were the first to bridge that gulf (as with buying music online - they weren't first, but the were the first to make it an experience people were prepared to endure).