[JRT]

This may be old news to many of you but I just found out about Jags new screenshot features and think they are very slick...

Cmd-shift-3 - takes pic of whole screen like the old one.

*NEW*
Cmd-shift-4 - Cool new crosshairs appear and you can then drag to take a pic

*NEW*
Cmd-shift-4, wait for crosshair, press Spacebar - cursor turns into a camera
and highlights what it will take a pic of. Use to take pics of windows only,
icons on the desktop or even icons in the dock!

[cejones]

Weren't these all available in OS 9?

[Eug]

Any reason they're saved as a pdf now instead of tiff?

[JRT]

Originally posted by cejones:
Weren't these all available in OS 9?

Cmd-shift-3 has been around forever but I think the others are new.

[SS3 GokouX]

I'm fairly certain the ability to take screenies of individual windows and icons wasn't in OS 9 (nor 10.1).

[SS3 GokouX]

Eug, just open up the PDF in Preview and there you can export it to a varity fo different formats (and set individual options, like compression, color depth, etc). Perhaps the next version of Tinkertool will be able to set the screen shot formats again.

[::maroma::]

Cmd-Shift-3 was in OS 9.

Cmd-Shift-4 was in OS9.

Cmd-Shift-4-Space was not in OS9.

I really dig the Cmd-Shift-4-Space option. Now I'd like a script to send it to my Public .mac folder and put the URL to that pic on my clipboard. That would make life real easy for upping quick pics and posting them onto the forums.

Anyone want to make that script for me?

[EDIT: oh yeah..the PDF format...I guess the script would convert the PDF to PNG or JPG if possible)

[cwasko]

Originally posted by cejones:
Weren't these all available in OS 9?

Yea. But now they are in OSX. However, they are better in OSX. The cmd-shift-4 spcbar thing rocks, as it hilites the window or 'object' that you are taking a picture of.

[Eug]

Originally posted by SS3 GokouX:
Eug, just open up the PDF in Preview and there you can export it to a varity fo different formats (and set individual options, like compression, color depth, etc). Perhaps the next version of Tinkertool will be able to set the screen shot formats again.

Yeah, I know, but I was just wondering why the change. It's more of a hassle, with no benefit I can see.

[ReggieX]

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
Cmd-Shift-4-Space was not in OS9.

However, Caps Lock-Cmd-Shift-4 took a grab of a single window.

[tycheung]

Originally posted by Eug:

Yeah, I know, but I was just wondering why the change. It's more of a hassle, with no benefit I can see.

Native graphics file format in Quartz is PDF, I think, whereas before in OS 9 QuickDraw it was PICT.

[gthyb]

i'm pretty sure you could do at least one of the "new" ones in OS8 even.

[Emotionally Fragile Luke]

Originally posted by Eug:

Yeah, I know, but I was just wondering why the change. It's more of a hassle, with no benefit I can see.

Why is it more of a hassle? PDF is a well known cross platform standard. Send someone a TIFF and they flip, almost all apps read a PDF no prob and PDF is native in OSX.

Yeah, the command-option-4-spacebar thing is pretty much what the snapz pro objects tool is like, just that the Apple version is well cooler :-)

Steve

[KidRed]

mm, wierd, for some reason I can't take screen caps any longer. The cmd+shift+3(4) no longer work. Damn it.

[chris_h]

Originally posted by KidRed:
mm, wierd, for some reason I can't take screen caps any longer. The cmd+shift+3(4) no longer work. Damn it.

close dvd player

[KidRed]

DVD player isn't open, simply none of the key commands work. I am also having trouble with sleep, sleep simply won't work right either. So I'm hoping there's a fix or suggestion over a re-install.

[dampeoples]

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
Cmd-Shift-3 was in OS 9.

Cmd-Shift-4 was in OS9.

Cmd-Shift-4-Space was not in OS9.

I really dig the Cmd-Shift-4-Space option. Now I'd like a script to send it to my Public .mac folder and put the URL to that pic on my clipboard. That would make life real easy for upping quick pics and posting them onto the forums.

Anyone want to make that script for me?

[EDIT: oh yeah..the PDF format...I guess the script would convert the PDF to PNG or JPG if possible)

Snapz Pro X will do this, well, all except paste the URL in the clipboard

[starfleetX]

Command-shift-4 has been around at least since 10.1, probably 10.0.

Just FYI.

[::maroma::]

Originally posted by dampeoples:

Snapz Pro X will do this, well, all except paste the URL in the clipboard

Cool! I've never even tried that utility before. I'll give it a whirl.

[Eug]

Native graphics file format in Quartz is PDF, I think, whereas before in OS 9 QuickDraw it was PICT.

Why is it more of a hassle? PDF is a well known cross platform standard. Send someone a TIFF and they flip, almost all apps read a PDF no prob and PDF is native in OSX.

Comparatively few apps understand .pdf files, at least when compared to .tiff.

Anyways, does anyone know the answer to why they made the change? I can see why X.1 might choose .pdf to start with, but here they started with .tiff in X.1 and switched to .pdf in X.2, for no apparent reason.

It's not as if I care all that much which is used, but there must be some rationale for them to switch.

[dampeoples]

Originally posted by ::maroma:::


Cool! I've never even tried that utility before. I'll give it a whirl.

Make an alias in your pictures folder of the folder you want to automatically upload to, Snapz automatically adds all folders in your pictures folder in the send to menu. CMD-OPT and drag out of iDisk to make alias.

[Emotionally Fragile Luke]

Originally posted by Eug:


Comparatively few apps understand .pdf files, at least when compared to .tiff.

Anyways, does anyone know the answer to why they made the change? I can see why X.1 might choose .pdf to start with, but here they started with .tiff in X.1 and switched to .pdf in X.2, for no apparent reason.

It's not as if I care all that much which is used, but there must be some rationale for them to switch.

Why is it more of a hassle?

[Eug]

Why is it more of a hassle?

It slightly more of a hassle since less programs handle .pdf, but I'm not really complaining here. I'm just wondering why they switched formats going from X.1 to X.2.

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by Eug:
It slightly more of a hassle since less programs handle .pdf.

You're joking...and it was a good joke too. Har har! Very funny! Whew...that was an abdominal work out...thanks!

[train]

Originally posted by JRT:
This may be old news to many of you but I just found out about Jags new screenshot features and think they are very slick...

Cmd-shift-3 - takes pic of whole screen like the old one.

*NEW*
Cmd-shift-4 - Cool new crosshairs appear and you can then drag to take a pic

*NEW*
Cmd-shift-4, wait for crosshair, press Spacebar - cursor turns into a camera
and highlights what it will take a pic of. Use to take pics of windows only,
icons on the desktop or even icons in the dock!

Also, hold down CONTROL too for any of these commands to copy the screenshot to the clipboard instead of saving to the desktop.

[Emotionally Fragile Luke]

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:


You're joking...and it was a good joke too. Har har! Very funny! Whew...that was an abdominal work out...thanks!

I don't know what the heck he is talking about ether. The number or times someone told me not to mail them a PDF and a TIFF instead!

Again, PDF are known as an internet cross platform format that ever app that I tested in OSX work with it, email, photoshop, browser, everything.

Also, like others have said PDF's are OSX native format, the better question would be why the heck did they use TIFF's?

[JKT]

It is a hassle that we don't have a choice in what format is used (Tinkertool is no longer able to change this, unfortunately). PDF is a hassle because it makes it more difficult to edit the image before sending it, they are generally larger than other file formats etc, etc. I now have to open the image in preview, then export it as a e.g. a .png and then open the exported file in a graphics app to edit it. Considerably more work than simply opening the .tiff as before.

Why can't the choice of format simply be a system preference?

[JLL]

Originally posted by JKT:
PDF is a hassle because it makes it more difficult to edit the image before sending it, they are generally larger than other file formats etc, etc. I now have to open the image in preview, then export it as a e.g. a .png and then open the exported file in a graphics app to edit it. Considerably more work than simply opening the .tiff as before.

Use a graphic app that can read PDF files.

[starfleetX]

Originally posted by JLL:
Use a graphic app that can read PDF files.

Perhaps you could name a few graphics apps that can *edit* a PDF like you could a TIFF?

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by starfleetX:
Perhaps you could name a few graphics apps that can *edit* a PDF like you could a TIFF?

Now, now...tampering with a screenshot is a no-no. Maybe Apple is trying to prevent people from modifying a screenshot into something that's not a screenshot anymore because it's been modified.

If you're into faking screenshots and modifying them then by all means, get Adobe's PDF editing products or get Snapz Pro X to create non-PDF screenshots.

[Eug]

Now, now...tampering with a screenshot is a no-no. Maybe Apple is trying to prevent people from modifying a screenshot into something that's not a screenshot anymore because it's been modified.

That makes no sense whatsoever. I guess adding a caption to a screenshot or doing an image resize is going to get the Apple police (screenshot modification division) knocking on your door.

I don't know what the heck he is talking about ether. The number or times someone told me not to mail them a PDF and a TIFF instead!

Actually, I never email .pdf images to anyone, esp. if they need to be edited - ie. if captions need to be added or the pic needs to be cropped potentially, I usually will email JPEGs (at the lowest compression settings) or better yet, mail them .tiffs on CD or something.

At the local semi-pro photo print shop the machines only will accept .tiff or .jpg. .pdf images must be converted prior to printing. The .pdf files have been more useful for printing or emailing formatted documents though obviously.

But that's besides the point. My question is simple and is not meant to start a .pdf vs. .tiff format war thread. (I believe Adobe created both anyway, no?) I just was wondering why Apple switched going from X.1 to X.2.

Also, like others have said PDF's are OSX native format, the better question would be why the heck did they use TIFF's?

OK then, why did Apple use .tiff in the first place if .pdf is the native format?

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by Eug:

That makes no sense whatsoever. I guess adding a caption to a screenshot or doing an image resize is going to get the Apple police (screenshot modification division) knocking on your door.

If that's all you need to do, almost any graphics manipulation app can do this...all you have to do in OmniGraffle, for example, is drag the pdf into a new graffle doc and you can resize it, crop it, rotate it, put a caption...you can probably do this in iDraw also (I haven't checked though.)

Use your head, mon!

[ReggieX]

Originally posted by Eug:
OK then, why did Apple use .tiff in the first place if .pdf is the native format?

Because that's what NeXTStep used.

[Love Calm Quiet]

The coolest, simplest, alread-in-system option anyone has suggested is:

"Eug, just open up the PDF in Preview and there you can export it to a varity fo different formats (and set individual options, like compression, color depth, etc)...'' �SS3 GokouX

Is this new to Jag (I'm still in 10.1.5)? I find the "Export" options in Preview greyed out when I have a pdf open.

Explanation anyone?

[Ibson]

Originally posted by Love Calm Quiet:
The coolest, simplest, alread-in-system option anyone has suggested is:

"Eug, just open up the PDF in Preview and there you can export it to a varity fo different formats (and set individual options, like compression, color depth, etc)...'' �SS3 GokouX

Is this new to Jag (I'm still in 10.1.5)? I find the "Export" options in Preview greyed out when I have a pdf open.

Explanation anyone?

If you want to convert a PDF document to another format, open the PDF in Preview, and choose "Save As�" from the File menu, which will save the PDF as a TIFF. Then open that TIFF and export it in whatever format you please.

[LordJavac]

Are the screenshots vecotr-based or still rasterized?
The coolest feature of using PDF as the display language should be that you could take vector PDF screenshots that would scale much better than a rasterized version.

[chris v]

THE shift+cmd+4+spacebar thing is tres cool!

Did a control+shift+cmd+4+spacebar (serious contortion here!) and then cmd+v into a new Photoshop document.

Worked a treat, as the Brits say.

CV

[Emotionally Fragile Luke]

Originally posted by Eug:

Actually, I never email .pdf images to anyone, esp. if they need to be edited - ie. if captions need to be added or the pic needs to be cropped potentially, I usually will email JPEGs (at the lowest compression settings) or better yet, mail them .tiffs on CD or something.

At the local semi-pro photo print shop the machines only will accept .tiff or .jpg. .pdf images must be converted prior to printing. The .pdf files have been more useful for printing or emailing formatted documents though obviously.

Well if you are going to take a screengrab of your computer do you think people will be doing it more to email to someone or to have it professionally printed?

[iRebound]

Originally posted by Emotionally Fragile Luke:


Well if you are going to take a screengrab of your computer do you think people will be doing it more to email to someone or to have it professionally printed?

good point

i just hope someone will figure out a way to save the screen shot as jpeg again. it's a waste of time for me to open up preview and export it as a jpeg

[gorgonzola]

To be frank, what's more annoying than the default switch to PDF is the fact that you can't change it to some other format via defaults anymore. They used to have an AppleScreenShotFormat setting, but they're ignoring it now...

[::maroma::]

Originally posted by Love Calm Quiet:
The coolest, simplest, alread-in-system option anyone has suggested is:

"Eug, just open up the PDF in Preview and there you can export it to a varity fo different formats (and set individual options, like compression, color depth, etc)...'' �SS3 GokouX

Is this new to Jag (I'm still in 10.1.5)? I find the "Export" options in Preview greyed out when I have a pdf open.

Explanation anyone?

In Jag (Preview 2.0) you can export the PDF into many different formats. I just wish they included a crop tool!

[Lew]

I would imagine they did it to eliminate 10.1.x's "press key combo� wait for shutter sound� wait another 3 seconds while it makes the screenshot (remembering not to move your mouse)" which I found to be quite annoying, having been used to the 'instant' screenshots of OS 9. 10.2's screenshots seem to be a lot faster than 10.1 was, possibly because the display is already in a PDF-compatible format.

[Eug]

Originally posted by Emotionally Fragile Luke:
Well if you are going to take a screengrab of your computer do you think people will be doing it more to email to someone or to have it professionally printed?

Email, as you're inferring, but... err... in that case neither .tiff nor .pdf would be ideal. It would be .jpg.

Anyways, this issue is almost irrelevant compared to the DVD-R issue and the ISO 9660 CD-R issue.

At least the screengrab works.

In Jag (Preview 2.0) you can export the PDF into many different formats. I just wish they included a crop tool!

Well you can crop before you take the screenie, with the crosshair mode.

I would imagine they did it to eliminate 10.1.x's "press key combo� wait for shutter sound� wait another 3 seconds while it makes the screenshot (remembering not to move your mouse)" which I found to be quite annoying, having been used to the 'instant' screenshots of OS 9. 10.2's screenshots seem to be a lot faster than 10.1 was, possibly because the display is already in a PDF-compatible format.

It does seem faster to me, although I can't say I've ever timed it. What kind of "conversion" process is needed for .tiff? I always thought there isn't that much CPU time involved, unlike JPEG.

[superlarry]

Originally posted by LordJavac:
Are the screenshots vecotr-based or still rasterized?
The coolest feature of using PDF as the display language should be that you could take vector PDF screenshots that would scale much better than a rasterized version.

rasterized :cP i checked as soon as i found out they were pdf's now because i thought of how great that'd be.

[Targon]

Whaaaaa..you guys are tripping. I have NEVER seen a ".PDF" image file on the web..........NEVER. Oh an For the record GraphicConverter doesnt even or cant even open ".pdf" image files so that proves it aint no widely used cross platform image format.

I dont like this format. Firstly it screws up the colors of the original desktop pic. Only the crappy Preview.app can open the files, (it never opens them up in actual size and there is no pref) the user must export into a file format we use..ie JPG for example. Why all these stupid additional steps just to post a desktop pic baffles me.

Argh just give me a preference so i can creat screenies in the frickin format i want......

car'n TinkerTool

[msykes]

Okay, okay, some people prefer JPG/TIFF. Some people prefer PDF. I happen to be in the first category. That said, if anyone knows of a way to change the default output format of screen capture, it would be nice.

You can use "Grab" which still saves as Tiff, but this isn't as nice as the hot key options.

I do notice that the new PDF version is *much* faster though, which I suspect is why Apple changed to this format. Options would always be nice... maybe we should just all leave feedback for Apple and take a couple deep breaths!

[WJMoore]

Originally posted by Targon:
Whaaaaa..you guys are tripping. I have NEVER seen a ".PDF" image file on the web..........NEVER. Oh an For the record GraphicConverter doesnt even or cant even open ".pdf" image files so that proves it aint no widely used cross platform image format.

I dont like this format. Firstly it screws up the colors of the original desktop pic. Only the crappy Preview.app can open the files, (it never opens them up in actual size and there is no pref) the user must export into a file format we use..ie JPG for example. Why all these stupid additional steps just to post a desktop pic baffles me.

Argh just give me a preference so i can creat screenies in the frickin format i want......

car'n TinkerTool

Hmm you've never seen a PDF on the web... Obviously you've never needed to present a document in a cross platform format, never done a google search as it will return PDF documents as results now, never been involved in higher education as my lecturers regularly present assigments etc. as PDF's. Have you ever read a paper published from a university - fair chance they are PDF or at least that is one option available. For example all papers listed here can be viewed as PDFs. 99% of all data sheets for electronics components are PDF files just go to National Semiconductor, Microchip etc. Just because graphic converter doesn't support it proves nothing. OS X comes with two PDF viewers, Preview, which will allow you to export them to other formats and Acrobat Reader, the totally crossplatform reader for PDFs. You claim PDF is not cross platform yet PDF stands for Portable Document Format. Furthermore Adobe has readers for all versions of Windows from 3.1 onwards, all versions of Mac OS 7.3 onwards, PalmOS, Pocket PC, Linux, Solaris, SGI IRIX, HP_UX, IBM AIX, Digital UNIX and OS/2 Warp - I hardly consider that to be non-cross platform. I suggest you read this page on the Adobe site that explains What Abobe PDF is.

Wesley

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Targon:
Whaaaaa..you guys are tripping. I have NEVER seen a ".PDF" image file on the web..........NEVER.

On the other hand, practically every other site on the web uses .TIFF, right?

I've seen plenty more PDF's than TIFF's on the web...

[dfiler]

Originally posted by tycheung:
Native graphics file format in Quartz is PDF, I think, whereas before in OS 9 QuickDraw it was PICT.

Sorry to choose your post tycheung, but there seems to be some misunderstanding about pdfs, quartz, file-formats, and OS X.

Quartz doesn't have a native file format, infact, it never deals with files directly. This would be like saying modern cars use unleaded wiper blades as their native gas format All the right words, just not with the right relations.

If you look at how cocoa and core graphics handle their images, a tiff could be considered one of the native formats, sort of. It gets quite complicated to pin point a 'native' format after you start considering things such as window buffer compression and transparency byte order.

While at some point in the windowing system, windows can be defined as pdfs, non-bitmapped functionality is seldom touched. Almost all of aqua is assembled from fixed sized bitmaps. With quartz extreme, or just a double buffered windowing system for that matter, there are already bitmapped versions of windows persistant in physical memory (or virtual memory). Thus, it would be easy and definately most efficient to pull screen shots from window buffers rather than a higher level bitmap container like the portable document format.

On a more general note:
A stock windows box (even XP) can open TIFFs but not pdfs. I ran into this problem last night when emailing a screen-shot to a coworker. While pdf files are popular in academia and other circles, they are seldom used as ingredients in other documents.

Yes, we all know how to convert files. Its just, why should we have to when there is another, more standard format... A format which doesn't force us through a conversion step if we want to interact with the windows world. I predict they'll swap back soon.