[el chupacabra]

I've recently moved to a high elevation (co. springs) and my already slow solara is even slower, same with my accord. Anyone know of an easy way to adjust a car for elevation? Or is it not really possible?

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra

I've recently moved to a high elevation (co. springs) and my already slow solara is even slower, same with my accord. Anyone know of an easy way to adjust a car for elevation? Or is it not really possible?

I didn't actually do it myself when I moved there to the Springs many moons ago, but my car had that same problem.

Not to worry. It's an easy fix.

Just take it to any mechanic and have them adjust the air breather thing. The combustion process requires fuel and air to take place.

At that altitude the air is thinner. That means you must increase the amount of air that goes to the engine.

I think it's just a screwdriver adjustment. 5 minutes.

[greenamp]

Modern cars such as your Solara have electronic fuel injection and adjust the air/gas mixture automatically when changing elevations. That being said, there is really nothing you can do about your performance loss. Cars just have less HP at high elevations, and unless you have a turbo boost or supercharger there is nothing you can adjust to compensate.

Aberdeen's car most likely has a carburetor, and those do not adjust the mixture automatically, you have to do it manually.


Here's a chart I found which details the performance hit you take at higher altitudes:
********************************
Altitude Max Rated Power (Feet)
0 100%
1K 97.1%
5K 86.2%
10K 73.8%
15K 62.9%
********************************

[unixfool]

Turbo cars tend to respond to high elevations better than non-aspirated ones.

Aberdeenwriter is correct that all modern cars have ECUs that determine the best air-to-fuel ratio for the car. That's not saying that they can make the car perform miracles, just that the ECUs adjust the cars' potential until there is no more room for improvement.

Of course, you could probably start modifying the car to make up the loss of performance, but that's probably not what you want to do.

There's not much you can do, beyond purchasing a more powerful car (which means you might end up spending more money on purchasing a new car AND fuel).

[greenamp]

You can always get a TRD Supercharger installed. It would more than make up for you power loss.
http://www.trdracing.com/trdsupercharger.html

Parts and labor will run you 3-4k though.

[phantomdragonz]

there is less air up here in colorado, so cars cant breathe very well...

fuel injected cars do not need adjustment (as was said above) carburated (old cars and motorcycles) do benefit greatly from adjustment to the fuel-air mix...

one thing you can do it do a tune up...

replace the air filter, replace the plug wires, distributor rotor and cap. (if you have them, some new cars are distributerless (My jeep wrangler has no distributer or plug wires))

welcome to colorado...

Zach

[aberdeenwriter]

http://play.napster.com/track/15113067

In case you aren't already tired of it, here. Listen to this!

[ghporter]

I've seen a few cars in the Springs that had issues-they were almost all the kind of car you'd expect to have problems at sea level too. Make sure your air cleaner is CLEAN and assuming your cars are fuel injected (you didn't mention year models), that the injectors are clean and properly adjusted. Basically tune up the fuel system and you should see a lot of improvement.

Isn't it breathtaking there in Colorado Springs? I loved it there!

[JFischel]

Originally Posted by unixfool

Turbo cars tend to respond to high elevations better than non-aspirated ones.

I'm not looking to start a flame war...but non-aspirated would me NO air. I think the phrase you were looking for is Naturally Aspirated versus Turbo or Supercharged.

That said, if you take the car to the Toyota dealer, they should have a software adjustment for altitude changes.

-Josh

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I've seen a few cars in the Springs that had issues-they were almost all the kind of car you'd expect to have problems at sea level too. Make sure your air cleaner is CLEAN and assuming your cars are fuel injected (you didn't mention year models), that the injectors are clean and properly adjusted. Basically tune up the fuel system and you should see a lot of improvement.

Isn't it breathtaking there in Colorado Springs? I loved it there!

There is a lot to like about the place!

In the winter just after dusk you can look up at Cheyenne Mountain at the Broadmoor Hotel to watch the night skiing. Then, if you are so inclined you can drive up there and look down on the city while you ski their cute little slopes.

Quite nice.

An oversized ad from the 1960's.

http://teachski.com/books/colorado/skibroadmoorad.jpg

[unixfool]

Originally Posted by JFischel

I'm not looking to start a flame war...but non-aspirated would me NO air. I think the phrase you were looking for is Naturally Aspirated versus Turbo or Supercharged.

That said, if you take the car to the Toyota dealer, they should have a software adjustment for altitude changes.

-Josh

JFischel, I think you know what I mean. Its a common enough term...it may not be totally correct but I didn't invent the term, I'm just using it. Do a google search on "NA cars" and a decent amount of hits will result. One shouldn't be so bogged down in literal terms.

NA - non-aspirated, aka non-turbo, the opposite of forced induction.

This term has been used in the automotive arena for YEARS. Magazines use the term, also. Right or wrong, it is an adopted term (a similar issue has happened to the term "hacker"). Of course, everytime I use the term on a message board, I'm not going to explain to everyone the difference. That's why I just used it as it is normally used.

Also, if he takes the car to the dealer, I doubt very much that they're going to adjust his software just because complained of power loss at altitude. It's a common issue for NA cars and I'm sure the dealerships in Colo Springs here those complaints ALL the time. If they adjust his software because he complains, they'll most likely to it because there are other underlying issues with his car.

[phantomdragonz]

Originally Posted by unixfool

NA - non-aspirated, aka non-turbo, the opposite of forced induction.

unlike the term n/a (not applicable)
NA when referring to cars means Naturally Aspirated.

the "aspiration" being the method of getting air into the engine. forced induction methods are usually a super charger (blower, etc) these run off a belt attached to the front of the engine, much like an air conditioner on a car...

a turbo charger works differently because it relies on the exiting exhaust gasses passing through a turbine to spin a shaft which spins another turbine on the intake side, acting as a air compressor (much like a leaf blower would blow air)

they both have their advantages and disadvantages, if you even hear a ricer pull up and gun it and hear a "whoosh" sound after he lets off the gas this is the sound a modified "blow off valve" it limits the amount of air pressure being put into the engine, so it does not blow up...

so basically there is probably more then you wanted to know about induction methods for vehicles, so basically since you live in colorado and have a NA car, you are basically stuck with the power output you car has, dont worry, every other car on the road is dealing with the same thing... wait till you drive in the mountains.. like the last mile before Eisenhower tunnel on 1-70 (crossing over (under) the continental divide) that last mile is killer on cars... it seems like you have 25% of the power you did back in denver (5280ft high)

OH, and one last bit of advice, when coming down the mountain SHIFT DOWN! DONT RIDE YOUR BRAKES!! you can do this on an automatic transmission too, I would practice shifting down before you are in the mountains so you know what to expect, it is always annoying to be driving down the mountain and smell that unmistakable smell of hot or burning brakes... just as you notice a soccermom from out of state in a HUGE suv, with the brake-lights constantly on... brakes are for relatively short distances, not your entire decent, once brakes get hot they dont work nearly as well and can fail all together, shift in to a lower gear (make sure you dont over stress your car though, if the engine goes past it's red line the engine can break)

alright now I am done...

Zach

[JFischel]

Well, since you went there...if you do GO AHEAD and google the issue as you so logically say -- you will indeed find that the Toyota Solara's air intake system is continuously computer adjusted and monitored by the onboard computer. That said, if the car is still laboring, by clearing the computer management system and letting the car become reacclimated to it's current surroundings, it will run better.

[stevesnj]

Take it to the dealer and tell them the problem they can adjust the settings from there

[unixfool]

unlike the term n/a (not applicable)
NA when referring to cars means Naturally Aspirated.

Ahh, my mistake. I was using 'non' instead of 'naturally'.

the "aspiration" being the method of getting air into the engine. forced induction methods are usually a super charger (blower, etc) these run off a belt attached to the front of the engine, much like an air conditioner on a car...

a turbo charger works differently because it relies on the exiting exhaust gasses passing through a turbine to spin a shaft which spins another turbine on the intake side, acting as a air compressor (much like a leaf blower would blow air)

I've to note that turbocharging and supercharging are both considered forced induction. Both methods force air into the engine but via different methods. Yes, I understand the concepts totally. If you check http://www.wigglit.com, you'll see links that refer to forced induction (mainly turbocharging). These are my pages and I've owned an modified Eagle Talon. I understand and have used proven methods of taking advantage of turbocharged engines.

they both have their advantages and disadvantages, if you even hear a ricer pull up and gun it and hear a "whoosh" sound after he lets off the gas this is the sound a modified "blow off valve" it limits the amount of air pressure being put into the engine, so it does not blow up...

A ricer has nothing to do with racing and turbocharging/supercharging. I think you're referring to guys who bastardize NA imports and add things such as exhaust and turbo mods.

Any turbo car, an NA that was modified OR a stock turbo'd car, will have what you've referred to as a 'blow off valve' or BOV, which is actually called a compressor bypass valve. Blowoff will be more noticeable with higher boost. Of course, the posers will buy BOV units that are designed to be noisy to attract desired attention. My stock BOV wasn't all that loud unless I was running at or close to 20 PSI of boost. Also, on stock boost in the dead of winter, a turbo car will actually get a harder boost charge, making an unmodified car's BOV noisier.

The device vents air to prevent turbocharger damage...nothing will actually blow up. It actually keeps the air from shocking the internals of the turbocharger system. You can still overboost with a BOV. The effects of this usually will mean a burned out turbocharger or an overabundance of air that may not be counted by the ECU, which WILL mean melting of components.

so basically there is probably more then you wanted to know about induction methods for vehicles, so basically since you live in colorado and have a NA car, you are basically stuck with the power output you car has, dont worry, every other car on the road is dealing with the same thing... wait till you drive in the mountains.. like the last mile before Eisenhower tunnel on 1-70 (crossing over (under) the continental divide) that last mile is killer on cars... it seems like you have 25% of the power you did back in denver (5280ft high)

I know enough to make good power already, but thanks for the refamiliarization. My '91 Eagle Talon AWD made 195HP stock and around 205 lb/ft of torque. I took it to Pomona's drag strip and found that I was running mid to high 15 sec times at around 87-88MPH. After I did slight modifications over a 2 year timeframe, I found that I could manage a 14.2 at 98MPH with a decent improvement of 60' times (2.1 stock vs 1.8 modified). All my work was done on the stock turbocharger with exhaust mods, modified air filter, upgraded fuel pump, and boost variance between 16 to 21 PSI (11 PSI was stock for that model). I could've done better if I would've shifted better. I estimate the power was around 240-250HP at 21 PSI of boost.

I just want you to understand that I've done my homework, know what forced induction is and know how to enhance performance from a turbocharged engine. I definitely made an error in using the wrong terminology (non-aspirated vs naturually aspirated), but that's because I just flatout wasn't paying attention...it happens sometimes, to anyone.

To the OP, sorry for hijacking the thread...

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra

I've recently moved to a high elevation (co. springs) and my already slow solara is even slower, same with my accord. Anyone know of an easy way to adjust a car for elevation? Or is it not really possible?

Just moved to the springs too! Our Xterra is really sluggish, but our Turbo Volvo is crazy fast here.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I've seen a few cars in the Springs that had issues-they were almost all the kind of car you'd expect to have problems at sea level too. Make sure your air cleaner is CLEAN and assuming your cars are fuel injected (you didn't mention year models), that the injectors are clean and properly adjusted. Basically tune up the fuel system and you should see a lot of improvement.

Isn't it breathtaking there in Colorado Springs? I loved it there!

Colorado Springs is amazing, though in the summer Pikes Peak looks like a pile of dirt.

[ghporter]

The Peak IS a pile of dirt without snow on it. I visited it in January, and while the snow was dry, crusty ice, it did cover the dirt. And you could see Kansas from there-it's a grey blotch on the horizon (which is BELOW you by quite a lot!).

The sunrises and sunsets are extraordinary. I think they located the Air Force Academy chapel where they did just to catch the sun. Beautiful.

[phantomdragonz]

Originally Posted by unixfool

I just want you to understand that I've done my homework,... I definitely made an error in using the wrong terminology (non-aspirated vs naturually aspirated), but that's because I just flatout wasn't paying attention...it happens sometimes, to anyone.

sorry you took my post as a lecture to you, it was not, the first thing about be being nitpicky about non and naturally was targeted at you... not that it really matterd anyways, it is a easy mixup... the rest was for everyone else, A LOT of people know jack squat about cars, so I was lecturing the masses, not just you... I apologize for that confusion.

I know I would have liked to have it explained like I did, before I learned about how cars work, I had to teach myself most everything I know (or at least think I know )

Zach

[phantomdragonz]

Originally Posted by unixfool

A ricer has nothing to do with racing and turbocharging/supercharging. I think you're referring to guys who bastardize NA imports and add things such as exhaust and turbo mods.

Any turbo car, an NA that was modified OR a stock turbo'd car, will have what you've referred to as a 'blow off valve' or BOV, which is actually called a compressor bypass valve. Blowoff will be more noticeable with higher boost. Of course, the posers will buy BOV units that are designed to be noisy to attract desired attention. My stock BOV wasn't all that loud unless I was running at or close to 20 PSI of boost. Also, on stock boost in the dead of winter, a turbo car will actually get a harder boost charge, making an unmodified car's BOV noisier.

yes, ricer in a sense that they do pointless mods to make their car louder/flashier...

Originally Posted by unixfool

The device vents air to prevent turbocharger damage...nothing will actually blow up. It actually keeps the air from shocking the internals of the turbocharger system. You can still overboost with a BOV. The effects of this usually will mean a burned out turbocharger or an overabundance of air that may not be counted by the ECU, which WILL mean melting of components.

I guess I used "blow up" incorrectly, I (wrongly) use it when I talk about an engine that was driven too hard and had massive failures (melting) from what I understand though if if the BOV was stuck closed the turbo system would push the engine WAY past it's capable limits, aka "blow up" a BOV is very important, too much boost will blow headgaskets and/or make holes in hot pistons.

I have no doubt that you know what you are talking about, it's the other people reading these posts that have never been exposed to how forced induction works.

Sorry for my long winded rebuttal

Zach

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by ghporter

The Peak IS a pile of dirt without snow on it. I visited it in January, and while the snow was dry, crusty ice, it did cover the dirt. And you could see Kansas from there-it's a grey blotch on the horizon (which is BELOW you by quite a lot!).

The sunrises and sunsets are extraordinary. I think they located the Air Force Academy chapel where they did just to catch the sun. Beautiful.

Last year when we bought our house hear, it was marked up because one room had a view of Pikes Peak! I thought that was ridiculous. I live a few miles away from the Air Force Academy, and the sunsets are very beautiful.

[aberdeenwriter]

Is the Stockyards Restaurant still downtown? And are there still a bunch of massage parlors there?

[bstone]

I just got into Steamboat Springs and am camping high up in the mountains, about 9k+ feet. Since I got here my car is not doing so well. I think an O2 sensor is not liking it. Oh well.

[el chupacabra]

Thanks for your help guys. After reading this I probably do need to start with a tune up or somthing. Come to think of it I can't think of the last time i changed my air filter. I don't know if a turbo charger will fit on my car without losing the AC. I may just have to get used to it; however solaras already tend to be a bit more sluggish than other cars even at sea level... On a side note I just put in some of that new fully synthetic motor oil (not sure if it was Castro or Mobile 1) that was suppose to get your car something like 6000 or 90000 miles. Anyway this stuff seems to get used up quickly; not sure how well it works...

ghporter

Isn't it breathtaking there in Colorado Springs? I loved it there!

yes it is, can't wait to hit the mountains. White River N. forest. I actually have a really nice view of the whole city here off of centennial (sp?).

unixfool

To the OP, sorry for hijacking the thread...

dont worry about it, is all part of the discussion

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by bstone

I just got into Steamboat Springs and am camping high up in the mountains, about 9k+ feet. Since I got here my car is not doing so well. I think an O2 sensor is not liking it. Oh well.

It's because you drive an SUV of course!

jk bstone, keep supporting the environment.

[phantomdragonz]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra

Thanks for your help guys. After reading this I probably do need to start with a tune up or somthing. Come to think of it I can't think of the last time i changed my air filter.

a clean air filter will work better, if you want spring for a K&N that will increase your horsepower ever so slightly (like 2hp, maybe more)

Originally Posted by el chupacabra

On a side note I just put in some of that new fully synthetic motor oil (not sure if it was Castro or Mobile 1) that was suppose to get your car something like 6000 or 90000 miles. Anyway this stuff seems to get used up quickly; not sure how well it works...

synthetic motor oil keeps it's lubricating qualities longer then normal oil, just make sure you have a good oil filter that can last that long (WIK or is it WIKK) is a really good brand.

you say the oil gets "used up" if you have to keep filling it then you are burning or leaking oil, which is not how it is supposed to work... ideally you should remove the same amount of oil as you put in when you do you oil changes...


Zach

[Athens]

do a full tune up:
replace spark plugs
replace spark plug wires
replace distributor/rotor
replace air filter (get a goood one)
replace fuel filter
change oil (might as well the coolent too since you prob never have)
change oil filter
make sure your tires air pressure is right too.

after all that and you can live with you car running crappy for a few days disconnect your battery, it will reset your car computer and force it to readjust everything and chances are it will come out working better from a full reset. Not all cars are like that, Hondas and Toyotas are. Also try to use only Cheveron for a bit, otherwise take your car in for cleaning of the injectors. I found I dont need to take it but just sticking to cheveron. Cleaning places just use a more powerful version of techron.

[phantomdragonz]

Originally Posted by Athens

do a full tune up:
replace spark plugs NGK is a good brand

replace spark plug wires
replace distributor/rotor
replace air filter (get a goood one) a K&N will breathe well
replace fuel filter since it's a relatively new car this could be low on the list
change oil (might as well the coolent too since you prob never have) synthetic is a bit overkill, but use what you want, just change it when you are supposed to!
change oil filter WIX is good, otherwise use NAPA brand gold, or silver
make sure your tires air pressure is right too. dont overinflate!

after all that and you can live with you car running crappy for a few days disconnect your battery, it will reset your car computer and force it to readjust everything and chances are it will come out working better from a full reset. Not all cars are like that, Hondas and Toyotas are. Also try to use only Cheveron for a bit, otherwise take your car in for cleaning of the injectors.

you can add injector cleaner to your gas, you can buy it at most autoparts stores!

good advice, just had to add my opinions

Zach

[Athens]

and you only have to buy K&N once, there is a special expensive cleaner coating you can use on it, all you need to do is wash it down with water ever so often

side note rotate tires every time you change your oil.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by Athens

and you only have to buy K&N once, there is a special expensive cleaner coating you can use on it, all you need to do is wash it down with water ever so often

side note rotate tires every time you change your oil.

My, my, my! Who woulda thunk it?

Athens as Mr. Goodwrench!?!

[imitchellg5]

Good call.

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by phantomdragonz

you say the oil gets "used up" if you have to keep filling it then you are burning or leaking oil, which is not how it is supposed to work... ideally you should remove the same amount of oil as you put in when you do you oil changes...


Zach

By used up I mean it seems to get dirty just as easy as regular oil and the level goes down at the same time. I have never heard of this before in any other car but it says in the manual that some oil actually gets "used up" as in I have to keep refilling it. I have actually taken it in to Toyota 4 times throughout the past 5 years (2001 model) to figure this problem out and they keep assuring me it is fine. But since I took it in before my warranty expired, if it does prove to be something terribly wrong some day, it is on record and they have to replace my engine... thats what they said anyway.

[Athens]

Synthetic oil gets as dirty as normal oil at the same rate. The difference between the two is synthetic can continue to do its job longer then normal oil. Synthetic is better to use just because its easier to work its way up into the cam shaft, lubricates faster and lower and higher temperatures. For the most part Synthetic is just overall better for the long term health of the car and mileage when it gets a bit older.