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Tyre MacAdmin · Feb 28, 2006, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar

That's not entirely true. I'm sure it garners respect within the religious community, at least with the relatively devout.

Yes but even then people start wondering if you're gay or a child molester. Unprovable to those people that it's a reiigous choice. (But then again do those people matter?)

Dakar · Feb 28, 2006, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Tyler McAdams

Yes but even then people start wondering if you're gay or a child molester.

Really? Even if they're known to date?

Tyre MacAdmin · Feb 28, 2006, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar

Really? Even if they're known to date?

Yeah, in some cases. You act nice, you look like a losser for some reason. "I bet he's really gay." I'd personally like a not a virgin punch card that specifies my sexual preference. Just to shut people up.

Me on warcraft yesterday:

Sexygirl: How about giving a girl a win?
Thaidog: ...
Sexygirl: I'll be your gilrfrined

- end of game
Sexygirl: You're no fun!
Thaidog: I'm 30 years old
Sexygirl: A 30 year old virgn... how patetic!
Thaidog: no... gg - click - *rolls eyes*

Dakar · Feb 28, 2006, 11:34 AM

Interesting.

dav · 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Special? Yes. Better than? No, we are all in the same boat. I would say however, they would be better OFF than most of us that did not wait. But that is ust MHO.

Oh it's EVERYTHING about self control. It takes more than just belief. and "No ones belief being better than another" Highly subjective. I don't buy into this "feel good I am ok you are ok" no matter what you do thought process. I believe there is a right and wrong.

Being an atheist requires no self control. So that would negate any such ideal. Being an atheist just requires you to be.

Again, subjective.

i believe "right and wrong" can be subjective. if atheism is a belief, i think it can require self control to believe it, but there may be no laws in atheism that require self control.

Tyre MacAdmin · Feb 28, 2006, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar

Interesting.

These days I've given up. I just act like an asshole and fall in line with everybody else. Every woman I've seen seems to be preprogrammed to respond to all the regular idiosyncrasies of a "typical male". And for the large majority that's all they want because they're easy to control and toy with.

Chuckit · Feb 28, 2006, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Common sense dictates these things. I've never bashed myself in the head with a hammer, but common sense tells me I wont like it.

We're not talking about grievous bodily harm. When I first saw a certain kind of sorbet, I thought it looked pretty nasty (don't ask me why). Wasn't at all interested in partaking. Finally somebody convinced me to try it, though, and I discovered I liked it a lot. Similarly, I once bought a cake from a bakery that looked so good I just had to have it. That cake tasted like freakin' cardboard.

wolfen · Feb 28, 2006, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Tyler McAdams

These days I've given up. I just act like an asshole and fall in line with everybody else. Every woman I've seen seems to be preprogrammed to respond to all the regular idiosyncrasies of a "typical male". And for the large majority that's all they want because they're easy to control and toy with.

I'm sorry that you feel that kind of pressure to conform. Without any condescension whatsoever, I find this to be a very sad post.

Tyre MacAdmin · Feb 28, 2006, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by wolfen

I'm sorry that you feel that kind of pressure to conform. Without any condescension whatsoever, I find this to be a very sad post.

I don't feel the pressure to conform. The puch card thing was a joke. I wouldn't be talking about it if I felt it was something I had to strictly conform to. It does however get, very, very old.

Jawbone54 · Feb 28, 2006, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Binarymix

Wait? Pfft.

Do any other animals have to wait till marriage to give up their virginity? No? I didn't think so.

So there's little distinction between you and a mongoose in heat?

Kr0nos · Feb 28, 2006, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

When I first saw a certain kind of sorbet, I thought it looked pretty nasty (don't ask me why). Wasn't at all interested in partaking. Finally somebody convinced me to try it, though, and I discovered I liked it a lot…

That's a very good point.

What's there not to enjoy/like about sex? It's fun and judging from various scientific (and personal! *g*) studies, healthy.

It's just something I enjoy doing. If it wasn't pleasurable it wouldn't even be an issue in my life (I really don't care about the whole "procreation thing"). It can be an ego-boost, but for me it usually isn't. And if people didn't ask, I wouldn't tell (brag to) anybody about it.

I really don't see any point in "sensoring" my feelings. Now the games people play surrounding the whole issue, is a totally different thing. It's something I can really do without.

Jawbone54 · Feb 28, 2006, 03:43 PM

I haven't checked this thread in over a day before about 20 minutes ago, and I've been skimming through some of the responses. I'm going to make a few points.

1. I'm not on a high horse, Chuck. I am proud of it, but I didn't condemn one person for their views on this subject. Do I disagree with them? Yes. Do I call them idiots? Absolutely not.
2. Yes, I am a Christian. I'm a preacher's son who began working as a pentecostal church's youth leader a little over two years ago.
3. My wife will never, ever wonder after sex whether or not I'm comparing her to other women. The insecurities that many women face will not be a part of her life. The same applies to me.
4. Neither of us will have to worry about what kind of STD's we might unknowingly be bringing into our marriage. No elaboration required.
5. We're marrying one another because we deeply love each other, not because we have sexual feelings that we've been supressing. We've dated on and off for 3 1/2 years, so we're very familiar with each other in all but one aspect. If sex is about 5% of a marriage, as another poster discussed, then it pales in comparison to the 95% that we are already well on our way to honing to perfection.
6. We have already discussed how open we need to be when it comes to sexual interaction. As Christians, we believe that sex is a gift from God for those who are married, and that we have a responsibility to one another and to our marriage to make it as good as possible. When the time comes, we've agreed to be open and honest with one another. We'll discuss our needs, ideas, and such on a regular basis.

Lastly, I do feel that I have a right to be proud of my decision. If a vegetarian refuses to eat meat, and feels a sense of accomplishment and pride that he/she has been successful in accomplishing that which he/she believes is right, then what's wrong with that? I've decided, based on my spiritual relationship with God, that I don't want the lifestyle that others have chosen. It doesn't fit what I feel is right. Good for me, and good for everyone else who believes that sex is more than a social activity.

hart · Feb 28, 2006, 03:53 PM

atheism is not hedonism, nor does it preclude "moral" behavior. It just means you don't believe there is a god or "higher power". If anything, leading a moral and good life would require all the more self control for someone who does not think there is any god to reward them, either in life or after death, if they follow the rules.

I am so tired of people equating atheism with immorality without anyone calling them on it.

Kevin · Feb 28, 2006, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Tyler McAdams

Nothing gets you less respect as a male who's still a virgin.

I would say that said more about the people that felt that way, than the male virgin.

Chuckit · Feb 28, 2006, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I would say that said more about the people that felt that way, than the male virgin.

The same could be said for walking around naked.

Kevin · Feb 28, 2006, 09:03 PM

Well it could be said yes. Wouldn't make much relevancy, but it could be said.

TomR · Feb 28, 2006, 09:14 PM

Hit it while you have the chance. Seriously. DO NOT WAIT. After marriage you WILL get LESS ********. Mark my words. I am NOT married nor will I EVER get married. You WILL see what I mean.

Tom

Kevin · Feb 28, 2006, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by TomR

Hit it while you have the chance. Seriously. DO NOT WAIT. After marriage you WILL get LESS ********. Mark my words. I am NOT married nor will I EVER get married. You WILL see what I mean.

Tom

Meh, I know people married that still hit in nightly.

IN ANY relationship you are in, married or not, sex can decrease.

wolfen · Feb 28, 2006, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by TomR

Hit it while you have the chance. Seriously. DO NOT WAIT. After marriage you WILL get LESS ********. Mark my words. I am NOT married nor will I EVER get married. You WILL see what I mean.

Tom

Learn how to commit to someone while you have the chance. Seriously. You WILL have LESS LOVE throughout your entire lifetime. Mark my words. You WILL see what I mean.

Mastrap · Feb 28, 2006, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by wolfen

Learn how to commit to someone while you have the chance. Seriously. You WILL have LESS LOVE throughout your entire lifetime. Mark my words. You WILL see what I mean.

There are no absolutes.What might be right for you might be wrong for him.

Tyre MacAdmin · Mar 1, 2006, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I would say that said more about the people that felt that way, than the male virgin.

I think you're right. All things being equal, it's a very hard role to play in mainstream society. I also think that men like that might be a breath of fresh air for woman kind. Once again all things equal. I really don't think there's a harder piece of equipment to manage besides maybe a fortune 100 company. just being a virgin because it's the right thing to do.

Hawkeye_a · Mar 1, 2006, 08:50 AM

This discussion is going well....and going nowhere

. but its a good thing to discuss it.

I had another question for those of you who feel that sex before marriage is worth promoting....

Alright...so, seeing as how the battle for sexual liberation has been faught(and for the most part won), would you consider fighting for sexual liberation after marriage ? i mean...if sex before marriage is so acceptable and natural,etc. why does "marriage" have to include a condition that you give it up and stick to just one person and effectively taking your sexual freedom away ? why include such an abomonation of such a natural biological function ? why does it have to matter to the 2 people getting "married" ?

Surely if they "love" each other...they want the other to be happy, right ? and since sex is such a natural thing, why is it expected that the 2 people in a marriage only have sex with each other and not other people ? i reckon...people who think sex before marriage is acceptable and great..... would have no problem supporting this. after all, why change something that feels natural and good ? and then you wouldnt be doing anything wrong either.

That way....you can remove the notion of having sex with just one person for the rest of your life. And so, a couple of times a week, you and your partner can have sex if u wish, and other nights...you both can be seeing other people and enjoying a natural, healthy and more importantely UNINHIBITED sex life. of course you will still love each other, nothing will change that.

Botton line: if you want your partner to be "happy", why are you effectively taking away their sexual freedom ? if u didnt mind them sleeping with 1,2...or even hundreds of people before you met. why does it matter after u get married ?

On a side note.... this notion of "marriage" in todays society has becom such a flimsy notion it's laughable that people still want to partake in such a ritual that involves taking oaths that can be so easily broken and accepted. it's pointless imo.

I guess, being a Catholic i dont see a lot of divorces, etc, and its definately harder for me(or us) to accept as a viable "solution"...so we tend to stick to it. But i'd say most of my non-catholic friend's parents are dicorced, etc. weird....but anyways.

Tyre MacAdmin · Mar 1, 2006, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

why does "marriage" have to include a condition that you give it up and stick to just one person and effectively taking your sexual freedom away ?

As far as a Christian standpoint is concerned it has been told to me that marriage is there for exactly that. To govern your sexual immoraity sense it can not be controlled. The idea is to be chased to the point to abstain from sex all together. In older Hebrew teachings *all* sexual things are a sin. That includes looking at your neighbors wife the wrong way, thoughts, masterbation and of course sex.

wolfen · Mar 1, 2006, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

There are no absolutes.What might be right for you might be wrong for him.

Note that I was responding in kind. As a joke.

As for there being no absolutes, you will have no luck in any attempt to prove that assertion. You might as well be saying "The people on planet Kizloc are very friendly."

Kevin · Mar 1, 2006, 09:59 AM

Sexual freedoms also means the freedom to choose only one partner.

Not everyone has the urge to hump everything they sniff.

I wouldn't call that natural, so much as a perversion.

dav · Mar 1, 2006, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Tyler McAdams

being a virgin because it's the right thing to do.

highly subjective.

Dakar · Mar 1, 2006, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by dav

highly subjective.

Yes, this entire discussion is.

Hawkeye_a · Mar 1, 2006, 10:32 AM

I guess one could make the argument that we have evolved from a monogamous society to a "serial"-monogomus society. But then one has to wonder why the physical/mental act of "marriage" is still so popular these days ? defeats the purpose imo.

Or maybe it's just part of the mating ritual to woo the potential partner ?

Tyre MacAdmin · Mar 1, 2006, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by dav

highly subjective.

That's not nessasarily my view. Your life should be your life to live and I don't judge people by their actions (not always anyway). I'm just telling you what's been told me. It's not something I can say I adhere to or be holier than thou about either.

Dakar · Mar 1, 2006, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

I guess one could make the argument that we have evolved from a monogamous society to a "serial"-monogomus society. But then one has to wonder why the physical/mental act of "marriage" is still so popular these days ? defeats the purpose imo.

Or maybe it's just part of the mating ritual to woo the potential partner ?

Marriage serves two (main) functions nowadays. Taxes and child-rearing. But you don't need it for those. People get married more for the the meaning, the security, and probably societal pressure to some degree.

Of course, I think some people get married because they don't know what else they should be doing with their lives.

dav · Mar 1, 2006, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Tyler McAdams

That's not nessasarily my view. Your life should be your life to live and I don't judge people by their actions (not always anyway). I'm just telling you what's been told me. It's not something I can say I adhere to or be holier than thou about either.

i understand that's your view, and i respect that. i don't consider it a right or wrong issue.

Chuckit · Mar 1, 2006, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Well it could be said yes. Wouldn't make much relevancy, but it could be said.

My point is, yes, the stick might be up somebody else's butt, but it becomes your problem if you draw their attention.

Mastrap · Mar 1, 2006, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by wolfen

Note that I was responding in kind. As a joke.

As for there being no absolutes, you will have no luck in any attempt to prove that assertion. You might as well be saying "The people on planet Kizloc are very friendly."

I am not entirely sure what you're trying to say. All I am saying is that what is right for one person might not be for another. As long as no harm is done both should have the right to live their lifes as they see fit.

Uriel · Mar 1, 2006, 04:55 PM

Isn't saying "there are no absolutes" an absolute?

Brass · Mar 1, 2006, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by hart

atheism is not hedonism, nor does it preclude "moral" behavior. It just means you don't believe there is a god or "higher power". If anything, leading a moral and good life would require all the more self control for someone who does not think there is any god to reward them, either in life or after death, if they follow the rules.

I am so tired of people equating atheism with immorality without anyone calling them on it.

Most philosophers who've studied morality and religion have come to the conclusion that morality and good and evil cannot really exist without a deity.

Without a higher power dictating what is right and wrong, any view point on what is moral and what is immoral is just one persons opinion against another.

Brass · Mar 1, 2006, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Tyler McAdams

As far as a Christian standpoint is concerned it has been told to me that marriage is there for exactly that. To govern your sexual immoraity sense it can not be controlled. The idea is to be chased to the point to abstain from sex all together. In older Hebrew teachings *all* sexual things are a sin. That includes looking at your neighbors wife the wrong way, thoughts, masterbation and of course sex.

I've read a fair bit of old Hebrew teaching, and certainly none of the old Hebrew law suggests that sex is a sin!

Brass · Mar 1, 2006, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by wolfen

Note that I was responding in kind. As a joke.

As for there being no absolutes, you will have no luck in any attempt to prove that assertion. You might as well be saying "The people on planet Kizloc are very friendly."

are they? I'll have to go there for next year's summer holiday!

Brass · Mar 1, 2006, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Uriel

Isn't saying "there are no absolutes" an absolute?

heheh... now that's an interesting argument. Following that logic (which appears correct to me), the statement proves itself wrong very clearly.

The statement "there are no absolutes" itself says that it cannot be "absolutely" correct, which means it cannot be correct at all.

Moderator · Mar 1, 2006, 06:27 PM

Considering your sex drive reduces naturally after your mid twenties..I'd say God wants us to spread it around early and often.

turtle777 · Mar 1, 2006, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Moderator

I'd say my horny dick wants to spread it around early and often.

Fixinated.

Chuckit · Mar 1, 2006, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Brass

Most philosophers who've studied morality and religion have come to the conclusion that morality and good and evil cannot really exist without a deity.

Without a higher power dictating what is right and wrong, any view point on what is moral and what is immoral is just one persons opinion against another.

For another take, read Plato's Euthyphro. (It doesn't directly address the issue of atheist morality, but it lays the basic foundation within the context of polytheism.)

Tyre MacAdmin · Mar 1, 2006, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Moderator

Considering your sex drive reduces naturally after your mid twenties..I'd say God wants us to spread it around early and often.

I'm 30 and it still won't let go. Not really sure if i want it to either.

Kevin · Mar 1, 2006, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Tyler McAdams

I'm 30 and it still won't let go. Not really sure if i want it to either.

Don't do it because of pressure that is for sure. You will regret it.

Chuckit · Mar 1, 2006, 07:33 PM

Don't let your sex drive decrease because of pressure?

Mastrap · Mar 1, 2006, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Moderator

Considering your sex drive reduces naturally after your mid twenties.

Speak for yourself. I have no such thing to report.

TheHobbyMan151 · Mar 1, 2006, 10:18 PM

I wouldn't if I already knew we would be married but otherwise I would go for yes with te GF.

ASIMO · Mar 1, 2006, 11:03 PM

I approve of sex before, during, and after marriage.

Just do it well.

Brass · Mar 1, 2006, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by ASIMO

I approve of sex before, during, and after marriage.

Just do it well.

That would make for an interesting ceremony.

24klogos · Mar 1, 2006, 11:24 PM

all i got to say fellas, titties and beer. before, during and after marriage, u dig?

Tyre MacAdmin · 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Don't do it because of pressure that is for sure. You will regret it.

I try not to. I struggle with it. But rest assured, if it does get the best of me they'll be somebody somewhere that will pop out of the wood work to make sure I've done it for ALL the right reasons. At 30 that's the one piece of advise I can give you and be absolutely sure of.