[sdilley14]

I'm considering making a career transition and I have a few questions. Right now I am a loan officer at a credit union (I write 2nd mortgages, home equity loans, home equity lines of credit, car loans, etc.). I've been doing this for about two years now and I've actually been very successful at it. However, I am starting to feel a little bored and my mind is starting to wander. I've checked out a few different departments within our organization and they just haven't been much interest to me. And I'm not interested in making a lateral move and going to a different financial institution.

I would really like to transition into IT. Ideally, I would like to do IT work for financial institutions - network design and implementation, security assessment, risk management, disaster preparation and recovery, software procurement, intranet and internet website design and maintenance, etc.

I don't have any formal IT education. I've been working on computers my whole life, setting up home networks, fixing computers for friends and relatives, setting up work stations and general network setup (at my previous employer), but that really only makes me an intermediate to advanced user. There’s no way to quantify that knowledge, and I know employers like seeing certifications on a resume.

I work full time and there really is no way I could go back to school and get a degree, even at a technical college. I just don't have the time and my lifestyle requires me to be working full time.

So my question is this. What are considered the most important, “key” certifications that IT employers are looking for? A+? Network+? Server+? Cisco? SQL?

Also, is it realistic for someone to study for these on their own and pass the testing, outside of a classroom setting? I have no problem spending my evenings studying and paying for the tests out of my own pocket.

Thoughts? Opinions? Is this realistic or am I naive in thinking this can be done on my own?

Thank you!

[exca1ibur]

Experience, is the most important. You are in the company of people with YEARS of experience. Fresh out of school will be tough to get directly into the IT field, without some 'connections'. Studying to pass a test is good on paper only. Experience is what makes a good IT person. There are no ideal situations like in a classroom environment. What the certification teaches you are the basics of what everything does but the experience is going to help you through day.

I started out self taught with networking, graphic design, web design, doing a lot of freelance for years, then moved to small companies, while still doing freelance stuff on the side to stay current on the latest technologies. A lot of new stuff you actually can learn from the job, and some would even pay for training. (Not as much anymore, I've seen lately). I've built up 15 years + in the field with with no certifications, but a lot of experience, and have no issues finding pretty good work. Most of my friends in IT have done the same. Most don't even have college degrees but have a lot of experience on the job working with some good stuff. All depends on where you want to go. This was how I got my start in the field. Hopefully that helps.

[sdilley14]

Thanks for the input. I do have a couple connections with some local IT companies that work with banks and credit unions in the area. Plus, I'm fairly confident I could pretty easily move into the IT department for the credit union I'm working for now, so I do have some "ins". I'm just lacking the certifications to prove my ability. :/

[besson3c]

I don't know what employers are looking for and stuff, but I will say that I haven't been impressed with many of the people I have come across with A+ certs and the like. I realize that I'm biased on the matter, but based on my experience and hypothetically putting myself in the place of a potential employer I would say this: any old monkey could collect certifications, it doesn't mean much. Get them if you think they will help, but they are just a means to an end. Don't covet them.

If you are going to work in financial institutions chances are they are using a lot of Windows, at least on the client side of things. Find out more about what they are using, start learning stuff on your own, and push yourself to learn things at the lowest level as possible. The smartest IT guys I've ever known are the kind of guys (and girls) that really understand what is going on right down to the TCP/IP layer and can analyze packets and stuff, for instance. The lesser of the IT people I've met are sort of stuck on memorizing what GUI options to click on to do stuff, that is sort of the extent of their knowledge (not to irritate people in here, but I've met a lot of Mac guys who fall into this category).

Think of some sort of useful project that will challenge you to acquire these sorts of skills, build your own website (don't use iWeb or some sort of WYSIWYG editor , setup some servers, start learning more about networking, whatever... Just dive in and don't be afraid to look under each rock. Your progress will be very slow in doing so, but you'll learn stuff along the way and have a way to apply it so that you won't forget!

Programming is actually also a useful skill for many IT guys: shell scripting, Perl, etc. Don't be afraid of the command line. Even the smartest Windows guys I've met running Exchange servers and stuff have had to use the Windows command line. Challenge yourself to move beyond point and click.

My two cents.

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I don't know what employers are looking for and stuff, but I will say that I haven't been impressed with many of the people I have come across with A+ certs and the like. I realize that I'm biased on the matter, but based on my experience and hypothetically putting myself in the place of a potential employer I would say this: any old monkey could collect certifications, it doesn't mean much. Get them if you think they will help, but they are just a means to an end. Don't covet them.

If you are going to work in financial institutions chances are they are using a lot of Windows, at least on the client side of things. Find out more about what they are using, start learning stuff on your own, and push yourself to learn things at the lowest level as possible. The smartest IT guys I've ever known are the kind of guys (and girls) that really understand what is going on right down to the TCP/IP layer and can analyze packets and stuff, for instance. The lesser of the IT people I've met are sort of stuck on memorizing what GUI options to click on to do stuff, that is sort of the extent of their knowledge (not to irritate people in here, but I've met a lot of Mac guys who fall into this category).

Think of some sort of useful project that will challenge you to acquire these sorts of skills, build your own website (don't use iWeb or some sort of WYSIWYG editor , setup some servers, start learning more about networking, whatever... Just dive in and don't be afraid to look under each rock. Your progress will be very slow in doing so, but you'll learn stuff along the way and have a way to apply it so that you won't forget!

Programming is actually also a useful skill for many IT guys: shell scripting, Perl, etc. Don't be afraid of the command line. Even the smartest Windows guys I've met running Exchange servers and stuff have had to use the Windows command line. Challenge yourself to move beyond point and click.

My two cents.

Get to know the Linux command line and get to know virtualization technologies. VMWare, Xen, RedHat KVM. Windows techs are a dime a dozen, especially on the bottom of the spectrum, expand to fields no one is in.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by King Bob On The Cob 

Get to know the Linux command line and get to know virtualization technologies. VMWare, Xen, RedHat KVM. Windows techs are a dime a dozen, especially on the bottom of the spectrum, expand to fields no one is in.

I agree. Unix/Linux can be a PITA because it is so complicated, but it is also less abstracted and more hands-on than an OS like Windows where it's often just click and pray.

[tooki]

Honestly, this is the wrong economy to be getting into the bottom floor of IT. You'll be competing against a ton of new paper MCSE's and CCNA's, many of whom are younger and willing to work for less. Never mind the experienced IT people who are out of work and will get hired before the cert collectors. (Yes, I am biased against PC certs, as nearly everyone I've ever seen with one has been… a bumbling idiot, at least with respect to IT. And then it's the users who have to put with the dysfunctional systems they build.)

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by tooki 

Honestly, this is the wrong economy to be getting into the bottom floor of IT. You'll be competing against a ton of new paper MCSE's and CCNA's, many of whom are younger and willing to work for less. Never mind the experienced IT people who are out of work and will get hired before the cert collectors. (Yes, I am biased against PC certs, as nearly everyone I've ever seen with one has been… a bumbling idiot, at least with respect to IT. And then it's the users who have to put with the dysfunctional systems they build.)

It's interesting to hear that cert collectors being idiots is widespread enough to be apparent even in Europe (which I'm assuming, based on your location, is where you're at)

[-Q-]

I have to pile onto the opinion that it's mainly experience that will be your biggest asset. In discussions with the IT friends over the years, I think the only certification I've ever heard them go after was a few Apple ones so they could be come an authorized Apple repair center so they wouldn't have to ship laptops off for warranty work and could do most repairs in the CNN facility.

Good luck.

[tooki]

In full disclosure, I have to confess another reason for disliking certs (and, frankly, many university IT/CS departments): they allow otherwise unqualified people to enter the market. Far too many people who have no place being near a computer, never mind administer them, take away jobs from actually talented IT people, and then we have to clean up the messes they leave behind (as anyone who's read the Daily WTF can attest).

These people should be finding jobs in other fields where they can shine, not just be someone everyone puts up with.

Just like it'd be preposterous for me to go to school for music and then try to become a singer, it's equally preposterous for some of those people to be with computers.

[mattyb]

network design and implementation, security assessment, risk management, disaster preparation and recovery, software procurement, intranet and internet website design and maintenance

Have a look at a CISSP. With your financial background and this sort of cert, you could do well.

To really learn networks and security, get yourself some linux boxes, setup a network, firewall a part of it, sniff the packets, read the How-Tos and RFCs etc etc.

Good luck.

[sdilley14]

Does anyone here have any experience with certifications from CompTIA?

CompTIA Certifications

I am thinking about buying some study guides, taking some of the tests (A+, Network+, Security+, Server+), and getting certified on my own. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of approach as opposed to the traditional classroom setting? Any experience with getting certified through this website specifically? I would really like to get some insight and hear about the experiences of others before I dive in.

[Paco500]

I suppose the + certifications would not hurt, but I don't think they will help you much in landing a job. You might learn some things though but they are kind of the tech equivalent of a GRE- not really respected.

If you want to get into the field, take the advice of Wayne Gretsky (via Steve Jobs) and look where the puck is going, not where it is.

The hot technologies these days are virtualization, automation, orchestration and all things could. Finance companies are eating this stuff up. Right now, VMware is leading the industry, but there is also a glut of VMware talent out there. Citrix/Xen is doing some great stuff and Microsoft Hyper V is coming in to its own- maybe look at their stuff. Getting a good foundation in scripting will be a valuable skill for working with orchestration platforms.

The whole world of IT is going through a pretty major shift right now. Desktop support will be dying soon with the rise of virtual desktops (huge in banks now). Traditional server admin roles are changing. Converged data/storage networks mean big changes for network admins. The people that run the virtualization and orchestration platforms are the ones with the insurgent power right now and it looks like this model is going to take hold and stick around for a while.

In defense of those with certifications (I've had a few in my day), I've met some great techs with them and some crap techs with them. I've not met anyone who got better at their job for having one, but met plenty who got them because they were good at their job. Having real certifications can make a difference as many companies have to have a set number of certified people on staff to keep certified partner status with Microsoft/cisco/etc- so having one of these may help you land a job. The + certifications will not have this effect.

Finally, if you are in sales now (as that's what loan officers really are aren't they?), have you considered getting into the tech field via this route? Sales is sales no matter the industry and you might get a foot in the door selling tech to banks rather than using it. You could learn a lot.

[besson3c]

I agree with Paco. Find a project for yourself in an area you see as being vital to where things are going, and build a product or service or something. There is no better way to learn something than diving in getting your hands dirty, unless you are one of those people that can translate textbook knowledge to real life easily.

As has been said here, I've never been impressed with the whole certification thing. If I was hiring I wouldn't be looking at using certifications as a litmus test of any sort.

[Big Mac]

Yeah, but you're a tech professional, besson. You're not some random HR manager or pointy-haired boss. Certifications matter to them.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Yeah, but you're a tech professional, besson. You're not some random HR manager or pointy-haired boss. Certifications matter to them.

If you are going for a job where you'll be hired by an HR manager or pointy-haired boss as opposed to a potential peer, sure, I guess... Aside from companies where you'd be the lone IT guy I don't know how common this sort of thing is though.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Experience, is the most important. You are in the company of people with YEARS of experience. Fresh out of school will be tough to get directly into the IT field, without some 'connections'. Studying to pass a test is good on paper only. Experience is what makes a good IT person. There are no ideal situations like in a classroom environment. What the certification teaches you are the basics of what everything does but the experience is going to help you through day.

I started out self taught with networking, graphic design, web design, doing a lot of freelance for years, then moved to small companies, while still doing freelance stuff on the side to stay current on the latest technologies. A lot of new stuff you actually can learn from the job, and some would even pay for training. (Not as much anymore, I've seen lately). I've built up 15 years + in the field with with no certifications, but a lot of experience, and have no issues finding pretty good work. Most of my friends in IT have done the same. Most don't even have college degrees but have a lot of experience on the job working with some good stuff. All depends on where you want to go. This was how I got my start in the field. Hopefully that helps.

Thats about sums up me to. I dropped out of College and been working in IT for omg im getting bloody old, 13 years now. I started with being a lab assistant in high school to managing all the Macs because the computer tech was a PC only person. Then started my own computer company and was doing good for a few years with that before I got ripped off which pretty much ended that. I took a break from IT working at a hotel for 2 years while still doing site IT stuff before I became a contractor in IT for a large international company. Started in Help Desk then moved to Site Administrator to now a Site Coordinator. When I took on the job as for Help Desk I beat out 2 fresh out of university students because of the experience. They had a university person who they replaced with me because the book worm was good at tests but useless in the practical field. IT is something you have to understand and get or you don't go far because almost nothing is exactly as what you learn. YOu have to have the problem solving skills to actually be useful in IT. Im semi burnt out and would love to change to something totally non IT related. Its a job that does mentally run you down quickly.

[PB2K]

nothing beats a university degree on computer sciences, then juice it up with certificates

i worked at helpdesks too, it's not a job you want for 5 years in a row, because the easy questions will bore you to death. usually helpdeskers get promoted to become system administrator. if you don't like that career path : education is key.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by tooki 

In full disclosure, I have to confess another reason for disliking certs (and, frankly, many university IT/CS departments): they allow otherwise unqualified people to enter the market. Far too many people who have no place being near a computer, never mind administer them, take away jobs from actually talented IT people, and then we have to clean up the messes they leave behind (as anyone who's read the Daily WTF can attest).

These people should be finding jobs in other fields where they can shine, not just be someone everyone puts up with.

Just like it'd be preposterous for me to go to school for music and then try to become a singer, it's equally preposterous for some of those people to be with computers.

ALL certifications work this way if they aren't maintained by the issuer. They allow people to hurdle over the sweat equity necessary to actually LEARN and instead just have a piece of paper. It's the same in academia - every hiring cycle I see flocks of PhDs who aren't qualified to wash my car, much less teach my undergrads. In some disciplines it's unbelievable the poor quality of people who get higher degrees (e-d-u-c-a-t-i-o-n). Really scary.

On the other hand, those that ARE maintained and kept up-to-date usually require a practical work experience requirement as well. For example, to get a Chartered Financial Analyst cert, you have to work your a$$ off. It's easily the equivalent of a technical masters from 25 years ago, updated to today in many respects. It's really tough, and that's why a good number of folks who try to get it go down in flames. With the 4-year work requirement, less than 10% who ever work on it end up getting it.

The explosion of certifications really alarms me, not just in IT. It's in EVERY field, and they're rapidly becoming meaningless. Just noise. Hell, my secretary has more letters after her name than I do.

I agree with the HelpDesk route. If you don't have the patience to work with users all day, you won't have the patience to work with administrative types either, and you should get out of IT fast. Plus, you'll have a true appreciation of what the IT role is.

[ghporter]

Finboy is right on target. If it isn't something that requires continuing education, something that the issuer jealously guards-and de-certifies people who deserve such sanctions-it is just paper. But when making hiring decisions, most firms know the difference. A+ certification does take a lot of work to get, but it is still a "basically qualified" certification.

Anyone who hires an IT tech based on A+ knows that and doesn't put them in a DB Admin job ONLY based on that cert. On the other hand, until the whole IT industry finally comes up with a unified certification process, IT people at all levels will remain hanging out in the wind, subject to stupid or ignorant hiring managers' whims and the really good people won't have a way to demonstrate their professional level to executives.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by finboy 

It's the same in academia - every hiring cycle I see flocks of PhDs who aren't qualified to wash my car, much less teach my undergrads. In some disciplines it's unbelievable the poor quality of people who get higher degrees (e-d-u-c-a-t-i-o-n). Really scary.

You're talking mostly about diploma mill PhDs, right (from some online schools I'd assume)? I mean, PhDs from quality institutions aren't just handed out on the street corner AFAIK.

[Athens]

Big Mac many people have the ability to do very good in school and can get PhD's and still be useless in the practical environment. IT world requires a lot of personality traits that if you don't got them no matter how much education you have its always going to be a challenge. I've seen it many times. The problem with IT is most issues and solutions are not text book. This is why experience is looked upon more in IT. IT work is one of the most dynamic jobs out there always coming across new things, and the rate of change is like no other industry.

[SpaceMonkey]

Finboy is right in one sense: the PhD does not necessarily correlate to the ability to teach. But it's not really supposed to, either.

[Athens]

Another thing to consider is a lot of companies will pay for education to make sure the people they have get the skills they desire. It can be helpful getting your foot in the door and then train under the direction of the company.

The way I personally see it, going straight from High School to Post Secondary is a mistake. Spending a 2 to 3 years working and saving is beneficial. On top of that it gives you enough time to be sure what you want to take. A lot of people go right into College and find themselves changing a year or 2 into it because they changed their minds on what to do. Some of the advantages of waiting just a little while is being able to start school with some money in your pocket. Its helpful being able to take a small loan if any at all. You also have "work experience" under your belt as well. When you finish school you will have a few years of Work experience plus the degree and a smaller debt. If by chance you got a job in the field you planned to go to school for you might have also benefited from direction from the company or education reimbursements from the company making it that much cheaper.

The other way I look at it is when getting jobs is easy get the job and do the education part time if you can. If the job market stinks go to school full time. I have the option of going back to school and as long as I get good grades my company will pay me back the costs. The company has its own list of certifications it considers desirable and a list of those that it does not. I would say a good portion of the ones I was going to take on my own to build up my marketability are not considered desirable from this current company. Some of those ones at the last company I worked at did like them. So its really hit and miss. One company accepts CompTIA as good while another does not.

The ones I think are good for a general IT person include
Apple Certification for IT Professionals and Business
Citrix Certifications
Some from Cisco
CompTIA like Network+, Security+, A+ and Server+ (this is for managers who know nothing about IT and holds CompTIA with a high standard)
If you plan to work in data centers or want to be a server dude LPIC1,2, 3 is a great asset.
Microsoft has a ton and both my last place and current place does not hold the Microsoft certificates with much regard which was very surprising to me. But like the CompTIA its good to have a Microsoft Certificate branded to you.
Nortel Certificate is handy because a lot of places the local IT deals with the Phone Systems

Depending on State and Province you might need a low voltage certificate for running Ethernet cabling.

Cisco and Citrix are 2 key ones that seem to have a LOT of importance placed on them.

When I asked about courses like Computer science and getting a degree in that I was told the company would rather I get a degree in general business, lean manufacturing, Six Sigma, 5S and to not bother with Computer Science at all.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Big Mac many people have the ability to do very good in school and can get PhD's and still be useless in the practical environment. IT world requires a lot of personality traits that if you don't got them no matter how much education you have its always going to be a challenge. I've seen it many times. The problem with IT is most issues and solutions are not text book. This is why experience is looked upon more in IT. IT work is one of the most dynamic jobs out there always coming across new things, and the rate of change is like no other industry.

Perfectly said.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Big Mac many people have the ability to do very good in school and can get PhD's and still be useless in the practical environment.=

Understood, but that's a different description from what finboy stated - that there are huge numbers of PhDs who aren't even qualified to wash his car. I know that that's hyperbole, but it implies that from finboy's perspective PhD standards have been considerably debased. That notion is of some concern to me because I'm considering pursuing a PhD in the future.

[Athens]

What PhD are you looking at?

This is my personal opinion so any one that asks me to back this up will get hit with a trout. But I think schools have just gotten better at selling and marketing PhD,s and at the same time more and more people are staying at home longer to go to school and maybe its just gotten easier over the years to get PhDs. More institutions offering them creating a situation of just more of them out there. Like anything with supply and demand its the scarcity of the resource that makes its valuable or not. And with more and more people getting PhD's the value of one is lowered a bit. But I doubt thats true for every PhD.

PS can you kindly unblock me