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monkeybrain · Nov 21, 2005, 03:08 PM

Yeah I know, but Core Image does work on a Mini - just slowly, although we don't have things like the ripple effect in the Dashboard. Since I don't really mess with colours, brightness, etc. on my photos, I was wondering about the demo - how well Aperture can run just displaying thumbnails, organising etc - those things that are slow still in iPhoto with many pictures.

CatOne · Nov 21, 2005, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by monkeybrain

Yeah I know, but Core Image does work on a Mini - just slowly, although we don't have things like the ripple effect in the Dashboard. Since I don't really mess with colours, brightness, etc. on my photos, I was wondering about the demo - how well Aperture can run just displaying thumbnails, organising etc - those things that are slow still in iPhoto with many pictures.

Note the previous post didn't say "Core Image won't run," but rather your machine doesn't support "the necessary Core Image feature."

You need more than a $500 piece of hardware to run it sufficiently well. Considering the retail price of the software itself is $500, I'm guessing Apple is saying you're not "pro" enough :-)

tooki · Nov 21, 2005, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Is that an institutional rate or something? The usual educational rate is US$249.

Yep, my school's bookstore sells all Apple products at the institutional prices.

tooki

tomrock · Nov 22, 2005, 09:13 AM

Apple has posted a compatibility checker if you're curious about your hardware http://www.apple.com/aperture/binary...re_Checker.dmg

tooki · Nov 22, 2005, 01:17 PM

What do you think all the posts from the last 2 days have been referring to when they talk about "passing the test"?

tooki

Gee4orce · Nov 23, 2005, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

To my surprise and contrary to what Apple says are the minimum requirements, my iBook (2005) is supported.

...whereas my Dual G5 1.8 (PCIX 8 memory slot model) isnt' ! My graphics card isn't supported.

Easy enough to fix, I know, but that adds a couple of hundred $$$ to the price of Aperture for me.

- - e r i k - - · Nov 23, 2005, 07:41 AM

My May 2005 iMac is supported. I knew it were. Just good to know

Eug Wanker · 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Gee4orce

...whereas my Dual G5 1.8 (PCIX 8 memory slot model) isnt' ! My graphics card isn't supported.

Easy enough to fix, I know, but that adds a couple of hundred $$$ to the price of Aperture for me.

I assume you have the GeForce FX 5200U?

It'd be interesting to pit the laptop Mobility Radeon 9550 up against the desktop GeForce FX 5200U on otherwise identical hardware and see what would happen. My guess the former would be faster in terms of pure GPU speed, but it wouldn't be by a huge amount. And as soon as memory became important, the latter would win, because it has twice the memory.

Given this Aperture compatibility thing, I guess the recommendation 2 years ago to risk a delivery delay by going with a cheap CTO 9600 Pro upgrade on those 2003 Power Macs was a good one for some. Mind you, depending on your needs, it might be nice to upgrade straight to Radeon 9800 Pro anyways if you're wanting to run Aperture even if you had the 9600 Pro 64 MB. A dual G5 1.8 with the 256 MB 9800 would be sweet.

(It's $229 for the 4X version, and something like $270 for the 8X version.) Too bad I can't upgrade the GPU in my 2005 iMac.

It will work, but it will be relatively slow I'm sure.

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

My May 2005 iMac is supported. I knew it were. Just good to know

Yup. Mine too. Those iMacs have the Radeon 9600 (non-Pro) 128 MB. It's nowhere near as fast as the current X600 XT, but at least it will work. Extrapolating from Gee4orce's post however, the 2004 G5 iMacs likely are not supported. I'm glad I waited for Apple to upgrade the GPU before jumping in with my iMac purchase.

Originally Posted by tooki

Yep, my school's bookstore sells all Apple products at the institutional prices.

Lucky scum.

CaptainHaddock · Nov 23, 2005, 11:58 AM

The last few messages about the 2005 iMacs prompted me to run the Aperture compatibility checker on my wife's machine. It works!

I guess I might be getting it after all.

Eug Wanker · Nov 25, 2005, 01:33 PM

Anybody confirmed the non-support of Aperture with the GeForce 5200 series GPUs yet? From what I gather neither the base model 2003 Power Mac with GeForce FX 5200 Ultra nor do any of the 12" PowerBooks support Aperture (since the fastest GPU they have is also the 5200 series), but I don't think I've seen anyone post actual confirmation of that yet.

It truly is ironic if an iBook supports Aperture but the PowerBook doesn't.

Eug Wanker · 06:45 PM

Looking forward to the reviews this week, now that Aperture is shipping...

I'm particularly interested in how well it will perform on lesser machines.

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Anybody confirmed the non-support of Aperture with the GeForce 5200 series GPUs yet? From what I gather neither the base model 2003 Power Mac with GeForce FX 5200 Ultra nor do any of the 12" PowerBooks support Aperture (since the fastest GPU they have is also the 5200 series), but I don't think I've seen anyone post actual confirmation of that yet.

It truly is ironic if an iBook supports Aperture but the PowerBook doesn't.

Yep confirmed. According to the checker software, Aperture will not work on any of these machines:

1) All 12" PowerBooks
2) All G4 iMacs
3) All G4 Power Macs
4) All 2004 model G5 iMacs
5) 1.6 GHz Power Macs (2003)
6) G5 Power Macs with GeForce FX 5200 Ultra (2003 & 2004)

Cadaver · Nov 27, 2005, 06:44 PM

The Aperture test fails on my wife's original 17" iMac G5 (1.8GHz, GeForce 5200 Ultra). Says the graphics card isn't supported. I'd presume then that the 12" PowerBooks are also out of luck (since they also use a GF5200).

inkhead · Nov 27, 2005, 09:22 PM

Is it true Aperture ships with a dongle?

tooki · Nov 27, 2005, 09:53 PM

Well, the "dongle" people are jokingly referring to is the fast new Apple hardware you need to run it on at top speed.

Considering that Apple doesn't use dongles on software that costs more than twice as much, it's unlikely they'll use one on Aperture.

tooki

- - e r i k - - · Nov 27, 2005, 11:07 PM

They use a dongle with Logic Pro.

CatOne · Nov 28, 2005, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by tooki

Well, the "dongle" people are jokingly referring to is the fast new Apple hardware you need to run it on at top speed.

Considering that Apple doesn't use dongles on software that costs more than twice as much, it's unlikely they'll use one on Aperture.

tooki

Not true. The copies of Aperture that were shown in NYC at the photo show, as well as other public demos of Aperture, have all used hardware dongles. This prevents people from pirating it by throwing it on their iPod, for example.

I saw dongles used with pre-releases of Final Cut Pro 5.0, at NAB this year. The shipping product didn't use a dongle -- the dongles were only used in the pre-release versions.

Whether the Aperture dongle was to prevent piracy or the pre-release, or whether it will be present in the shipping version (a la Logic Pro), I don't know.

Gee4orce · Nov 28, 2005, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I assume you have the GeForce FX 5200U?

It's a GeForce FX 5200 - not sure about the 'U' bit. It has 64MB of memory, so I guess that's the problem.

I bought this machine 2nd hand. Had I had it from new, I probably would have CTO'd a better card.

production_coordinator · Nov 28, 2005, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by CatOne

Not true. The copies of Aperture that were shown in NYC at the photo show, as well as other public demos of Aperture, have all used hardware dongles. This prevents people from pirating it by throwing it on their iPod, for example.

I saw dongles used with pre-releases of Final Cut Pro 5.0, at NAB this year. The shipping product didn't use a dongle -- the dongles were only used in the pre-release versions.

Whether the Aperture dongle was to prevent piracy or the pre-release, or whether it will be present in the shipping version (a la Logic Pro), I don't know.

That's a great way to prevent it from being in the wild hours after it's announced.

Eug Wanker · Nov 28, 2005, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Gee4orce

It's a GeForce FX 5200 - not sure about the 'U' bit. It has 64MB of memory, so I guess that's the problem.

I bought this machine 2nd hand. Had I had it from new, I probably would have CTO'd a better card.

It's the 5200 (U) that's the problem. My iBook 9550 only has 32 MB, and Aperture in supported on it. (Yeah, I know it will suck on the iBook.)

tooki · Nov 28, 2005, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by CatOne

Not true. The copies of Aperture that were shown in NYC at the photo show, as well as other public demos of Aperture, have all used hardware dongles. This prevents people from pirating it by throwing it on their iPod, for example.

I saw dongles used with pre-releases of Final Cut Pro 5.0, at NAB this year. The shipping product didn't use a dongle -- the dongles were only used in the pre-release versions.

Whether the Aperture dongle was to prevent piracy or the pre-release, or whether it will be present in the shipping version (a la Logic Pro), I don't know.

Obviously pre-release software doesn't count. No shipping Apple apps have used dongles. I think it's definitely "true".

tooki

- - e r i k - - · Nov 28, 2005, 07:48 PM

You are not reading this thread, are you Tooki?

Technical Specifications for Logic Pro 7

System Requirements
Macintosh computer with PowerPC G4 or faster processor (G5 or dual G4 processors recommended)
PowerPC G5 and Gigabit Ethernet connectivity for Logic Node applications
Mac OS X v10.3 or later
512 MB of RAM
DVD drive for software installation
Available USB port for XSKey (copy protection)
Low-latency multi-I/O audio hardware and MIDI interface recommended
4GB of available hard drive space

http://www.apple.com/logicpro/specs.html

Eug Wanker · Nov 28, 2005, 08:07 PM

^^^ Glad to see there is no such dongle requirement (except for the über high end hardware needed

) for Aperture.

BTW, some end users now have Aperture in-hand, and some Apple retail stores have it in stock too. Bring on the reviews!!

tooki · Nov 28, 2005, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

You are not reading this thread, are you Tooki?
http://www.apple.com/logicpro/specs.html

Well I'll be damned! I never noticed that! (I'm not an audio guy, so I haven't paid too much attention to the audio apps.)

So far, none of Apple's homegrown apps use dongles. It didn't occur to me that an acquired app might!

Thanks for the heads-up.

tooki

Weyland-Yutani · Nov 28, 2005, 08:38 PM

Logic has always used dongles. Cubase does too. It has been the norm in sequencer apps since they appeared on the Atari ST.

cheers

W-Y

Cadaver · Nov 28, 2005, 10:58 PM

I'm bummed. No shipping notification yet for my copy of Aperture, but I did order the academic SKU.

tomrock · Nov 28, 2005, 11:48 PM

So far I've heard there's no dongle in the shipping version of Aperture.

Spook E · Nov 28, 2005, 11:56 PM

so is there any whispering if their would be a trial version available, ala iWork. I realise they don't usually do it with their pro apps, and if there is a dongle requirement it would rule it out, but i would love to have a fiddle with it!

- - e r i k - - · Nov 29, 2005, 04:30 AM

They can get away with it on an app where the userbase is used to dongles. Introducing a _new_ product with a dongle isn't something I'd expect Apple to do.

powerbook867 · Nov 29, 2005, 08:04 AM

quick overview...not a full review by a long shot, but something...

http://www.jennandlucien.net/lucien/...re_mini_r.html

- - e r i k - - · Nov 29, 2005, 08:29 AM

Ouch. I was hoping for the galleries to validate, but despite efforts from Apple to keep it XHTML strict it failed miserably. 131 errors

Looks like there will be an Aperture 1.0.1 shortly.

tomrock · Nov 29, 2005, 08:35 AM

quick overview...not a full review by a long shot, but something...

Thanks -- this is a great start. I love the large screenshots.

powerbook867 · Nov 29, 2005, 08:49 AM

It looks solid (with the exception of the XHTML issues)

Now I just need a new machine...

Eug Wanker · Nov 29, 2005, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by powerbook867

quick overview...not a full review by a long shot, but something...

http://www.jennandlucien.net/lucien/...re_mini_r.html

Thanks for the posts. Are both side columns adjustable in size?

Those screen grabs are quite large.

Cadaver · Nov 29, 2005, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by inkhead

Is it true Aperture ships with a dongle?

No dongle with Aperture (just finished installing my copy).

powerbook867 · Nov 29, 2005, 07:48 PM

so Cadaver, when do we get a review?

Just kidding, you're probably still looking at the tutorials!!!

If you could though give us some feedback on you systems specs and performance in general, it would be most appreciated. I'm debating what my next move is going to be with regard to hardware purchases in the coming months! (after the pain of shopping for presents for the holidays subsides!)

nycdunz · Nov 29, 2005, 10:35 PM

me too, would love a review!

im so excited, finally after 6 long weeks of waiting!

Cadaver · Nov 29, 2005, 11:30 PM

Here's a quickie review after about 60 minutes of playing with it...

Its Great!

Ok... a little more specific.

Its fast, though I do have a dual 2.5GHz machine with a Radeon X800XT and 3.5GB of RAM. And I don't have too many RAW files (only about 20 or so for now), but I do have about 5,000 6MP jpegs and I did install the tutorial photos (like the samples on Apple's website) which are RAW format (Nikon NEF specifically). More responsive than iPhoto actually. I'll definitely start shooting in RAW from now on. Handles them with ease. I just didn't trust iPhoto with RAW images.

Its clearly a powerful app. Lots of ways to organize the photos (albums, folders, projects), and you can copy a project to say a CD/DVD or another machine, and all your metadata, original unmodified images, captions, categories, etc., get moved right along with it.

As stated before, Aperture only "records" the changes you make to each image, so its reapplied each time you open the image, and you can toggle on/off any individual change at any time if you decide later to undo it or see what the picture looks like without it. Each "version" can be grouped ("stacked") with its original or stored separately ("unstacked"). A little number icon over each stack will show you how many version of that particular image you have, and you can visually tile or cascade all your version for easy choosing.

It also has many multidisplay presentation options that I haven't yet played with (my second display is attached to my G4 test box at the moment).

The interface is very slick, using a combination of the style of other Apple Pro apps (like Final Cut, Soundtrack, etc) plus the translucent floating windows like iPhoto uses. And there are many nice touches, like swift animations when you swap the position of two photos - you see them slide over and change places instead of just appearing instantly. These animations are very subtle, professional-looking visual ques, and not simply Apple-Eye-Candy for no reason.

And the app seems very easy to get comfortable with. With barely a crack of the manual (which BTW is only 223 pages including index, unlike the 600-ish page DVD Studio 3 manual that I still haven't gotten through), I'm able to manipulate pictures pretty well, including in full-screen mode.

Apple also includes web layout templates, book templates, contact pages, etc., much like iPhoto. With just a very brief look so far, they look more "professional" than iPhoto's "fun" themes.

Way worth the $249 I paid for it. I don't think I would have paid a Full $500 for it, but if your a professional photographer (or even a major prosumer), I suspect you'll find this app worth every penny.

Edit: I'll post some screen shots, but to be honest it looks exactly like it does on the Apple website, save for some additions I've made to my main toolbar.

Cadaver · 08:44 AM

Screenshots (reduced from 2560x1600)

[Images reduced: way too big. Resize to fit the rules, please, or start a separate, properly marked picture thread. --tooki]

To make Mr. tooki happy, here are links (820 x 512, btw):

http://homepage.mac.com/xraydoc/.Pic.../Picture 1.png
http://homepage.mac.com/xraydoc/.Pic.../Picture 2.png
http://homepage.mac.com/xraydoc/.Pic.../Picture 3.png
http://homepage.mac.com/xraydoc/.Pic.../Picture 4.png
http://homepage.mac.com/xraydoc/.Pic.../Picture 5.png
http://homepage.mac.com/xraydoc/.Pic.../Picture 6.png
http://homepage.mac.com/xraydoc/.Pic.../Picture 7.png

powerbook867 · Nov 30, 2005, 07:59 AM

awesome Cadaver! Thanks fror getting back to us so quickly. Now I just have to talk the wife into allowing me to buy a new machine!!!

tooki · Nov 30, 2005, 02:26 PM

Has anyone with a PowerBook (such as my 1.25GHz 15" AlBook with Radeon Mobility 9600, 64MB VRAM, 1GB RAM) got any reports on performance?

tooki

tooki · Nov 30, 2005, 02:28 PM

Also, does anyone know whether iPhoto library import is a one-off thing (only in the initial assistant), or whether multiple iPhoto libraries can be imported? I have been using iPhoto Library Manager, and so I have several libraries...

tooki

CatOne · Nov 30, 2005, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by tooki

Has anyone with a PowerBook (such as my 1.25GHz 15" AlBook with Radeon Mobility 9600, 64MB VRAM, 1GB RAM) got any reports on performance?

tooki

I tried it on a 1.67 GHz, 15" PowerBook. Actually wasn't bad at all -- felt maybe 2x as fast as bridge, and maybe 10x as fast as the old Adobe File Browser, haha.

Didn't try any realtime filters yet, tho' I suspect that's where you're going to run into issues with the slower (and by that, I mean without a graphics card with a real pair) hardware.

Demonhood · Nov 30, 2005, 02:53 PM

does anyone know if it imports keywords from the iPhoto library?
i want to know if my hours spent keywording everything has been for naught.

Nexus5 · Nov 30, 2005, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by CatOne

I tried it on a 1.67 GHz, 15" PowerBook. Actually wasn't bad at all -- felt maybe 2x as fast as bridge, and maybe 10x as fast as the old Adobe File Browser, haha.

Didn't try any realtime filters yet, tho' I suspect that's where you're going to run into issues with the slower (and by that, I mean without a graphics card with a real pair) hardware.

Faster then iPhoto?

nexus5.

CatOne · Nov 30, 2005, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Nexus5

Faster then iPhoto?

nexus5.

I can't really compare it to iPhoto. I make pretty extensive use of RAW files, and iPhoto's handling of them was not acceptable to me.

Aperture is a lot of money to spend to get something that scales better than iPhoto. I think it makes sense if you really plan on using RAW files, and understand nondestructive edits and were really hoping for something that offered. If you were a big user of Adobe Bridge, or of Capture One, or shuffled back and forth between iView Media Pro and Photoshop, it's a Godsend. If you just think "well, iPhoto gets kinda slow at 16,000 photos" then $500 is a lot to pay. I guess if you're affiliated with education, the damage isn't so bad.

I've imported about 7 GB of photos to it so far... about to make it swallow my 2005 photos, which is about 15 GB of photos shot with a 1D mark II. That will test it :-)

Cadaver · Nov 30, 2005, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Demonhood

does anyone know if it imports keywords from the iPhoto library?
i want to know if my hours spent keywording everything has been for naught.

I'm pretty sure it does. I thought I read in the manual that all the metadata is kept when imported.

And multiple iPhoto libraries can be imported... not sure what'll happen if it encounters two items with the same name, though.

Eug Wanker · Dec 1, 2005, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by tooki

Has anyone with a PowerBook (such as my 1.25GHz 15" AlBook with Radeon Mobility 9600, 64MB VRAM, 1GB RAM) got any reports on performance?

I don't know first hand, but the gist I'm getting from the photo forums is that it's usable but slow on a 1.67 GHz 17" AluBook with Mobility Radon 9700 128 MB, 2 MB RAM. CatOne here seems a little more positive though.

P.S. Someone posted some pix of an Aperture (vs. C1) RAW conversion here.

djsbon · Dec 1, 2005, 01:48 PM

i just bought my first g5 pm yesterday with aperture and it wouldn't install on my computer since i only have 512RAM..

too bad.. now i guess i have to upgrade my ram

<3grey

- - e r i k - - · Dec 1, 2005, 05:37 PM

Why would they be different? What is C1? And why does it look better than Aperture?

tomrock · Dec 1, 2005, 06:12 PM

C1 is from a company that makes medium format digital back (Phase One). They also make a software called Capture One http://phaseone.com/Content/Software/PROSoftware.aspx

A lot of pros swear by their conversions.