[starman]

2. Being able to change your plan at will

I checked AT&T and Verizon's site and they REQUIRE a 2-year contract for all smartphones. I couldn't find a month-to-month plan on either of their convoluted sites for a smartphone.

[CharlesS]

That's right, because T-Mobile is the pioneer here. What I am saying is that if they are successful, VZW and AT&T may have to offer this option in order to compete. AT&T is already partway there as they do actually offer a no-commitment price on the iPhone. The trouble is that it's all very well hidden where most users will never find it, and then their no-contract plan is the same price as their regular plan, making that option a very expensive one indeed. If T-Mobile is successful in making the general public aware of the benefits of this model, however, AT&T may have no choice but to go all the way with it.

[starman]

Ok, so then where can someone "change their plan at will" if there's nowhere to go except T-Mobile?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Take your pick.

2. Being able to change your plan at will

3. Having a non-crippled phone

2) You can change your plan whenever you want even in contract. The contract is you aren't leaving on the basic phone plan.

3) jailbreak?

all the others..... Jailbreak.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by starman 

Ok, so then where can someone "change their plan at will" if there's nowhere to go except T-Mobile?

When I was on Verizon, I ended up needing more minutes than I had on my plan. But in order to make any change to the plan, I had to extend the contract for another two years. I would have had to sign another two-year contract, and I wouldn't even have gotten a new phone for it. VZW would have completely pocketed the extra subsidy money. That blows.

On pretty much any of the carriers, if you sign up for a fancy plan with a lot of minutes, and then it turns out you only use a third of those minutes and the rest is basically wasted money, you can't downgrade it and are pretty much screwed until the contract runs out. That blows.

And yes, the freedom to leave T-Mobile for AT&T, VZW, etc. at any time gives T-Mobile an incentive not to suck, which results in better service. When I was on AT&T, one year into my contract they suddenly decided to save money by dropping a roaming agreement that provided the only service that worked when I went home to visit my parents, and there was nothing I could do about it. That blows.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

2) You can change your plan whenever you want even in contract. The contract is you aren't leaving on the basic phone plan.

3) jailbreak?

all the others..... Jailbreak.

Will jailbreak save you money on your plan? No.

Will jailbreak allow you to get an unlocked phone from wherever you want without incurring a massive financial penalty due to having to pay full price for a phone, but still paying the extra charge on your cell plan each month to pay for the subsidy you didn't get? No.

Will jailbreak get you out of having to pay ETFs if your service becomes crappy/unusable for whatever reason? No.

Will jailbreak encourage the cell carriers to suck less? No.

Will jailbreak give you more flexibility with your cell plan? No.

Will jailbreak cut you off from official software updates and risk bricking your phone, all to get basic functionality that should have been a given in the first place? Yup.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Will jailbreak save you money on your plan? No.

Will jailbreak allow you to get an unlocked phone from wherever you want without incurring a massive financial penalty due to having to pay full price for a phone, but still paying the extra charge on your cell plan each month to pay for the subsidy you didn't get? No.

Will jailbreak get you out of having to pay ETFs if your service becomes crappy/unusable for whatever reason? No.

Will jailbreak encourage the cell carriers to suck less? No.

Will jailbreak give you more flexibility with your cell plan? No.

Will jailbreak cut you off from official software updates and risk bricking your phone, all to get basic functionality that should have been a given in the first place? Yup.

Sounds like you got issues with your Phone provider and projecting those issues onto the phone itself.

I do not spontaneously have my reception in my area getting worse for no reason requiring me to frequently switch providers.

My plan is also totally flexible.

Jailbreaking allows you to use the latest os even if it is a few days/weeks later than everyone else.

Jailbreaking saves you money as you can use VOIP apps over 3G.

But ya, sounds like you totally need a contract free cheaper phone as one day you might wake up and you suddenly get no reception and need to take that unlocked phone to another provider for as long as their coverage lasts.

http://gizmodo.com/5446912/nexus-one...+%28Gizmodo%29

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Sounds like you got issues with your Phone provider and projecting those issues onto the phone itself.

No, my posts were talking not about the phone but rather about the business model that T-Mobile as a carrier is using in selling this phone, offering a no-contract service plan, and the advantages thereof. This has nothing at all to do with jailbreaking, and frankly, your post has so little to do with what I was talking about that I can only conclude that you either did not read my posts, or you're being deliberately obtuse. Either way, I'm not sure how I should respond to your post.

[starman]

You're bordering on angry Google fanboy.

You also didn't address my point - you list changing providers "at will" when in fact you CAN'T. AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint don't have plans you can jump in and out of, you admitted that yourself. Maybe in the future, but not now.

[starman]

Only 20,000 units estimated to have been sold the first week.

Estimated Nexus One Sales: Only 20,000 Units in the First Week

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by starman 

You're bordering on angry Google fanboy.

You also didn't address my point - you list changing providers "at will" when in fact you CAN'T. AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint don't have plans you can jump in and out of, you admitted that yourself. Maybe in the future, but not now.

I listed being able to change PLANS at will, and already explained that. Go read my post again, because I don't want to retype it.

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Ever notice how bad cell service is in the US compared to Europe? Well, the US's lousy model is at least partly to blame. This is bringing the European cell phone model to the US, which is a boon for everyone with absolutely no downside. Having to sign an interminable 2-year contract pissed me off when I first got a cell phone seven years ago, and it still pisses me off now.

I'm not sure where the myth of mobile service being so much better in Europe- but, at least in my experience, it's nothing great.

At least in the UK, I know of almost no one who has a smartphone that was not bought on contract and heavily subsidized. Granted, most of these contracts are 18 months rather than 24, and you generally have a 12 month option, but that puts the cost of the handset up too high for most people. Of the very few people I know who actually bought a smartphone with no subsidy, the vast majority are people buying iPhones and jailbreaking them to use them on a carrier other than o2- for whatever reason.

Most everyone I know who has month-to-month or pay as you go have cheap standard phones rather than smartphones.

I don't see the situation being all that different than the states, aside from to reality that we have more national carriers over here, more competition, and therefore, slightly lower prices.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

No, my posts were talking not about the phone but rather about the business model that T-Mobile as a carrier is using in selling this phone, offering a no-contract service plan, and the advantages thereof. This has nothing at all to do with jailbreaking, and frankly, your post has so little to do with what I was talking about that I can only conclude that you either did not read my posts, or you're being deliberately obtuse. Either way, I'm not sure how I should respond to your post.

Actually you are dancing around (ignoring actually) all the software and hardware disadvantages of the Nexus. You saying that it is all worth it in the end because of the somehow amazingness of contract free makes sure you always get the best reception and plans because you can constantly jump ship to another provider. How long till you run out of options? 2?

But no need to respond. Simple fact of the matter.

1) I DO NOT WANT A PHONE WHERE I CANNOT SEE THE SCREEN OUTSIDE!
2) I do not want a phone with no easy computer syncing.
3) The hardware and software are still rather half assed and undefined.

So enjoy your Nexus and whatever provider works for you this week.

Fin

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by starman 

Only 20,000 units estimated to have been sold the first week.

Estimated Nexus One Sales: Only 20,000 Units in the First Week

Ouch! but it is has a OLED screen and you don't need a contract! Why aren't people ditching their iPhone for an apparent superior and cheaper product?!

Perhaps it is all those other negatives I mentioned that are more important than "Switching providers" when you suddenly lose reception at your house

[TETENAL]

The choice of carrier doesn't make the Nexus a great phone. But the lack of choice of carrier makes the iPhone completely worthless for some.

[starman]

I just read the Ars review. Embarrassing review, even the first page of comments tells how pathetic the review is. The author sounds like a Google fanboy (and I'm not the only one that thinks so).

Specifically, the author left out crucial information about the review, and didn't do tests that might put the phone in a negative light.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by starman 

I just read the Ars review. Embarrassing review, even the first page of comments tells how pathetic the review is. The author sounds like a Google fanboy (and I'm not the only one that thinks so).

Specifically, the author left out crucial information about the review, and didn't do tests that might put the phone in a negative light.

Ya I saw that this morning and I was rather surprised how vague and poorly written that "review" was also. Usually ARS is very technical and honest. Was it a new guy or just a google fanboy?

[starman]

I don't know, but it wasn't anything near what I expected from Ars. I was hoping for a nice 15-page non-fanboyish review and instead we got crappy pictures and only 5 pages.

I should ask for one for a proper review, dammit.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Wow is this true!!?? No apps on the SD card??

"There are 190MB available for applications in internal memory. This means your Nexus One is limited to 190MB of applications period."

[starman]

Yeah, they say it's for "security reasons". I haven't read much into that.

I also haven't read A THING about syncing/backing up, or what video and audio formats were tested.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by starman 

Yeah, they say it's for "security reasons". I haven't read much into that.

That is ridiculous if true. I have apps (games) on my iphone that are easily 200 megs each.
Not only do they have a limited app store but you can only have a handful of simple apps on the phone in the end anyway.

And I am beginning to think CharlesS was the one who wrote that Ars review

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by starman 

Yeah, they say it's for "security reasons". I haven't read much into that.
.

That's pretty funny, in light of malware making it into the app "store" w/o any initial screening.

-t

[starman]

I read that. Now everyone that bitched about Apple's screening process is starting to second guess their bitching.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

That's pretty funny, in light of malware making it into the app "store" w/o any initial screening.

-t

But seriously, why is it a surprise? Why doesn't this happen every day with this anything goes app process. Malware + Address books + network abilities is just about the worst thing I can imagine. No wait, throw in open source too so that Malware and virus' REALLY know how to get in deep and **** up the system big time.

But god forbid Apple doesn't approve that porn app in a timely matter.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Actually you are dancing around (ignoring actually) all the software and hardware disadvantages of the Nexus.

I'm also "dancing around" all the software and hardware disadvantages of the iPhone, since all I came in here to say was that I really like the way T-Mobile is offering this phone/plan on the European business model. I even pointed out that chances are they'll soon offer the iPhone the same way since AT&T's exclusivity is almost up, which you'd think would satisfy your extreme fanboyishness. But no matter. I don't feel like answering your misrepresentation of my posts for the third time, so I'm just going to refer you to the scroll bars on the web page to go back and read them again, which would be more useful than posting what anyone can see is a straw man just by scrolling up.. And with that, I'm going to stop before I end up saying something that gets me an infraction, but if you would like to keep it up with personal attacks in lieu of an actual argument, go right ahead. They will be answered by the "Report Abuse" button.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

I'm also "dancing around" all the software and hardware disadvantages of the iPhone, since all I came in here to say was that I really like the way T-Mobile is offering this phone/plan on the European business model. I even pointed out that chances are they'll soon offer the iPhone the same way since AT&T's exclusivity is almost up, which you'd think would satisfy your extreme fanboyishness.but if you would like to keep it up with personal attacks in lieu of an actual argument, go right ahead. They will be answered by the "Report Abuse" button.

OMG not the report abuse button! You want me not to sleep at night or something

I dont' see how saying you ONLY talking about how the carriers and plans over and over and over every time someone mentions all the hardware/software issues with the actual phone counts as a personal attack though but hey, like you said that's what that button is for

No Multitouch, No use in sunlight, no SD app storage, no computer sync, no thanks.

[ort888]

Hey, I love my iPhone too, but some of you guys seem to be taking this rather personally.

The more good smartphones out there the better it is for everyone. I hope that the Android platform takes off and pushes Apple, AT&T and everyone else to do better.

[starman]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Hey, I love my iPhone too, but some of you guys seem to be taking this rather personally.

The more good smartphones out there the better it is for everyone. I hope that the Android platform takes off and pushes Apple, AT&T and everyone else to do better.

Here's the way I see it.

Something amazing comes out from a company that people already have a silly hatred for (let's call that company Apple). Then a competitor comes out with a competing product which isn't as revolutionary as Apple's product, but what happens is people love it anyway because they hate Apple. I see it all the time. "We love game A because we hate game B, even though game A sucks". It happens in electronics, too.

What may be perceived as "being taken personally" is that when you bring out the logical points about why Product B has just as many flaws as Product A, but because Product A is made by Apple, it much Suck More, it gets ridiculous.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I dont' see how saying you ONLY talking about how the carriers and plans over and over and over every time someone mentions all the hardware/software issues with the actual phone counts as a personal attack though but hey, like you said that's what that button is for

This is the kind of crap I'm talking about:

Originally Posted by starman 

You're bordering on angry Google fanboy.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

And I am beginning to think CharlesS was the one who wrote that Ars review

I'm also not a big fan of my points being distorted into ridiculous straw men, even after I clarify them.

It's as if I were going off attacking the iPhone, which I wasn't even doing — and even if I were, you are not your freakin' iPhone. Just knock it off, okay? Can we just go back to a neutral, non-personal discussion of technology like we were doing on page 2, please?

[Sealobo]

Half of my friends here in Hongkong got an iPhone, and I would say 90% of them have Gmail.

None of them seems to care about Nexus One. (Months ago, some of them showed serious interest about the original G1; a few of them even bought parallel imports just to be fashionable.)

I think this One is failing.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Hey, I love my iPhone too, but some of you guys seem to be taking this rather personally.

The more good smartphones out there the better it is for everyone. I hope that the Android platform takes off and pushes Apple, AT&T and everyone else to do better.

Ya it's weird "someone" here accused me of ignoring the software/hardware issues with the iPhone but I don't really remember them coming up, especially in a thread about a Nexus.

But on that topic the iPhone is no where near perfect, BUT it has the most advantages and least disadvantages for ME (and it seems millions of others). Apple is the one leading the industry, everyone else are just playing catchup to the very first iPhone. By the time they finally do in a year or so (and it still won't have the same apps, iTMS, interface, quality or iTunes) apple will be out with a new model that will send them back to square one.

Why would I go for second best? Because the camera has a few more pixels, the OLED screen that can't be seen outside or the "Snapdragon" OS that seems to hide most of the software lags Android has? Nope.

Adding better hardware specs is not going to win over consumers, it is the whole package that matters and the Nexus' isn't near complete.

I am more than happy there are competitors out there keeping the fire lit on apples ass but it is also ridiculous that these "me too" "catch up" products are not revolutionary, innovative, or forward thinking (scroll balls and SD cards?), they are just competitors seeing what Apple did right from the start and using better parts here and there.

Anyway, in less then 6 months the new iPhone will make all these products look like a joke and everyone else can start the copycat process again. Rinse and repeat.

Oh and it seems Nexus and the wicked network is having plenty of problems.
Slashdot Mobile Story | Nexus One Owners Report Spotty 3G Signals On T-Mobile

Guess we know what the contract free and unlocked is so important now

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Ya it's weird "someone" here accused me of ignoring the software/hardware issues with the iPhone but I don't really remember them coming up, especially in a thread about a Nexus.

No one did that.

[ort888]

You still sound like you are taking this way to personally.

I like the iPhone because of how well it integrates with my other Apple products and because while I understand that it is "locked down" in many ways, I place a lot of value on a smooth consistent thought out interface and overall ease of use.

If you were one of those crazy techno-nerd Linux or PC types who places a lot of value on running some obscure 3rd party ogg vorbis player and tweaking every aspect of everything, then I could see how you might dislike Apple/the iPhone and like something more open like an Android phone.

You seem really intent on slamming the Nexus One at every opportunity. It seems to me like you want the Nexus One to be a failure and you will trump any aspect of the device that is less then perfect in an effort to bolster your pre-existing opinion. You are working backwards from the starting point of wanting the device to fail.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by ort888 

You seem really intent on slamming the Nexus One at every opportunity. It seems to me like you want the Nexus One to be a failure and you will trump any aspect of the device that is less then perfect in an effort to bolster your pre-existing opinion. You are working backwards from the starting point of wanting the device to fail.

Oh god no. I just don't like all this ridiculous hype for a product that hasn't given us a single original feature or serious advantage.

Remember a month ago how the Nexus as "the secret TRUE android phone" that will "change the entire industry"?

Silly rumors aside it still blows me away that review can call a phone with only 190 megs for apps, no multitouch and no outdoor viewing "the best phone you can get".

Pleeeease.

But like you said, if you are into Linux and hacking enjoy this phone along with the rest of the 0.001% of the market that falls under this category.

[nonhuman]

I have now replaced my iPhone 2G with a Nexus One that I am currently using on my AT&T plan. I would be happy to answer any reasonable questions anyone might have about the experience.

Briefly, however: I love it.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

I would be happy to answer any reasonable questions anyone might have about the experience.

One question: does it suck ?

-t

[ort888]

How much does it suck?

Also, I read that 190 megs for Apps thing is only half true. The executable file needs to be in the 190 megs, but the App can store almost all of it's data on the memory card.

Bottom line is that you CAN have a 500 meg game on the Nexus One. It will have an exe that is a few megs in size on the built in memory and all of the supporting data will be on the card. I don't really know if this is all handled seamlessly in the background, or if it's as complicated as it sounds.

[Railroader]

Did The Nexus One Sell Just 20,000 Units In Its First Week? - Nexus one sales - Gizmodo

[starman]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

I have now replaced my iPhone 2G with a Nexus One that I am currently using on my AT&T plan. I would be happy to answer any reasonable questions anyone might have about the experience.

Briefly, however: I love it.

How's EDGE?

[starman]

Originally Posted by ort888 

You still sound like you are taking this way to personally.

I like the iPhone because of how well it integrates with my other Apple products and because while I understand that it is "locked down" in many ways, I place a lot of value on a smooth consistent thought out interface and overall ease of use.

If you were one of those crazy techno-nerd Linux or PC types who places a lot of value on running some obscure 3rd party ogg vorbis player and tweaking every aspect of everything, then I could see how you might dislike Apple/the iPhone and like something more open like an Android phone.

You seem really intent on slamming the Nexus One at every opportunity. It seems to me like you want the Nexus One to be a failure and you will trump any aspect of the device that is less then perfect in an effort to bolster your pre-existing opinion. You are working backwards from the starting point of wanting the device to fail.

Name one post where anyone here wants the N1 to fail.

I almost got one, HENCE MY POST ABOUT WHY I HAVE ISSUES WITH IT. God forbid I do some f'n RESEARCH on it and NOT LIKE IT FOR WHAT IT IS. Not only is it a piece of crap on anything BUT T-Mobile, but it doesn't do multitouch (stupid), doesn't sync with my Mac (stupid), and adds ETF *ON TOP OF* the ETF you'd get from the carrier (very stupid), doesn't play well with AT&T's 3G (really stupid), among a host of other issues.

So if it sounds like I "want it to fail", please go ahead and think that.

[ort888]

I wasn't talking to you at all, but it sounds like you are also taking this way too seriously.

[The Final Dakar]

Being optimistic about technology is a serious crime.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by starman 

How's EDGE?

Hey, don't tell him. Maybe he won't notice.

-t

[imitchellg5]

I want this thread to fail.

[The Final Dakar]

This thread failed long ago.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I dont' want the Nexus to fail as I gain no money from its profits so it makes no difference.

Does it DESERVE to fail? Yes.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by starman 

How's EDGE?

Better than it was on my slow-as-molasses iPhone 2G!

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

One question: does it suck ?

-t

Indeed it does not!

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Better than it was on my slow-as-molasses iPhone 2G!

Yes, comparing the Nexus one to a 2.5 year old Apple phone is truly impressive.

Meanwhile, you could have gotten a 3Gs, taking advantage of 3G speed and tons of other nice things with the latest iPhone.

-t

[CharlesS]

And paid hundreds more due to the more expensive 3G data plan.