[Eug]

Originally Posted by hayesk 

I didn't say you couldn't get "anything." But there are several apps that I have on my iPad that aren't available on the Amazon app store. I don't believe I'd be the only one in this circumstance either.

Which apps? There are a lot of ipad apps I have that I could easily live without.

The necessary apps for me are email and web browser and Angry Birds.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I never use the accelerometer...

Really? You never rotate the machine from portrait to landscape? Try it. The accelerometer will sense the change and rotate the screen to match. Fire doesn't do that.

Originally Posted by Eug 

Since the iPad does not support MS Office and doesn't have a real keyboard, I take my laptop with me when I travel for work.

The iPad has a real keyboard, it's a virtual touch keyboard. If you want physical keys, it works just fine with a bluetooth keyboard. As for MS Office support, it depends what you're doing. Pages, Numbers, and Keynote all have wide-ranging Office compatibility.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by chabig 

Really? You never rotate the machine from portrait to landscape? Try it. The accelerometer will sense the change and rotate the screen to match. Fire doesn't do that.

I have the iPad locked in landscape mode. The GF hates the auto rotation and I don't like it either. I haven't unlocked it in over a month.

The iPad has a real keyboard, it's a virtual touch keyboard. If you want physical keys, it works just fine with a bluetooth keyboard. As for MS Office support, it depends what you're doing. Pages, Numbers, and Keynote all have wide-ranging Office compatibility.

I'm a touch typist and type about 4X as fast on a real keyboard. I have a Bluetooth Apple keyboard for the iPad. It sits in the closet. It's easier just to carry a laptop. I use Keynote a fair bit but don't use Numbers often, and hate using Pages. Even if I liked pages I wouldn't be able to use it. It has to be Word for Mac for compatibility reasons. In fact, for Keynote I use it mainly for Keynote-created presentations. For PowerPoint-created ones I present in PowerPoint, again for compatibility reasons.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Rumour: An analyst said on Thursday that BlackBerry maker Research In Motion may have halted production of its PlayBook tablet computer and canceled additional tablet projects.

RIMM denied it.

[chabig]

It all depends on how they define "halt".

[jmiddel]

Sounds like a repeat of PC vs Mac. People who want something cheap will get the Kindle, those who want the best quality, the iPad. For me, there is no question that I'll stay with Apple over Amazon. I did get my iPad for $349 as a refurb, so for $150 I'm getting so much more.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by jmiddel 

Sounds like a repeat of PC vs Mac. People who want something cheap will get the Kindle, those who want the best quality, the iPad. For me, there is no question that I'll stay with Apple over Amazon. I did get my iPad for $349 as a refurb, so for $150 I'm getting so much more.

So, in other words, you don't really think the iPad is worth $499 then.

You know what? I agree. I too think the iPad is worth $150 more than the Kindle Fire.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Eug 

So, in other words, you don't really think the iPad is worth $499 then.

You know what? I agree. I too think the iPad is worth $150 more than the Kindle Fire.

The 7" fire? Bleh. The iPad is definitely worth $300 more, to me. Of course, I'd rather run iOS than Android, it's a better mobile OS. Honeycomb is still buggy and jittery and I'd rather not deal with it unless I'm just tinkering.

[SOLIDAge]

I don't know how I feel about this.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by SOLIDAge 

I don't know how I feel about this.

Take a deep breath, clear your mind and relax. We have time.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Ah I see. I found the omission of a 3G model of the Fire interesting, but I imagine they will introduce it a bit after the WIFI debut. I definitely don't think it's any sort of showstopper, though. It depends on the person and his or her individual usage, of course. I'm glad I got a 3G 32 GB original iPad, but I really don't use the 3G that much.

I use my iPad's 3G plan all the time ... but in my iPhone.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I use my iPad's 3G plan all the time ... but in my iPhone.

How do you deal with voice?

As mentioned, I use 3G data all the time too, but in my iPhone. For my provider, for all full 3G data accounts 1 GB or more, tethering support is always included. My monthly cost for 1 GB data is $20/month.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by chabig 

Surf the web and read book? Yes. But otherwise, it has nowhere near the number of apps the iPad does.

True, but interestingly, the market research I've been receiving lately is suggesting that over half of smartphone users have never installed a new app. App stores are huge, but they may not be a huge as your think they are.

Nor does it have AirPlay (which is huge IMO).

I love AirPlay, but it's only huge if you also have an AppleTV. Most iPad customers don't.

Also, it may be 2/5 the price, but it's also only about 2/5 the size.

For some people, most notably people who are using their tablets to read books, the 7" size is ideal.

There are a lot of huge things about the iPad and Apple's iOS ecosystem, but the hugest thing may become it's price.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Eug 

How do you deal with voice?

I rarely need voice. Email, text, Twitter, FB, Instagram and IM are more than enough communications channels for me most times. When I need voice casually, Google Voice and/or Skype fill the need adequately most times. When I need reliable voice, I have a tiny Nokia that lives in my bag with $10 of prepaid voice on it with caller ID and voicemail. My monthly cost for 2GB of data and $10 of voice is $30.

The monthly voice plans that carriers force with iPhone data plans are a rip off when you use data to it's fullest extent.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I rarely need voice. Email, text, Twitter, FB, Instagram and IM are more than enough communications channels for me most times. When I need voice casually, Google Voice and/or Skype fill the need adequately most times. When I need reliable voice, I have a tiny Nokia that lives in my bag with $10 of prepaid voice on it with caller ID and voicemail. My monthly cost for 2GB of data and $10 of voice is $30.

The monthly voice plans that carriers force with iPhone data plans are a rip off when you use data to it's fullest extent.

I see you're in Calgary. I don't know what the carriers offer you in Calgary, but often if you negotiate with them the prices are much better. This is my Fido plan in Toronto:

$17.50 - 200 minutes plus unlimited weekends and unlimited weekday evenings beginning at 5 pm
$00.00 - 100 text messages
$10.00 - iPhone Value Pack (Caller ID + Name Display, Visual Voicemail, WhoCalled)
$20.00 - 3 year data contract, 1 GB
$-1.88 - Bundle discount

Total: $45.62 plus tax.

Note that this includes the cost of subsidization of the iPhone 4. I paid $159 for the phone, and then got over $90 taken off that because I had accumulated Fido dollars previously.

I think that's a decent deal, and there is no need for carrying two phones around. Yours is cheaper, but I assume it's not including any money towards an iPhone.

I find Skype far too unreliable for voice use.

[Wiskedjak]

ya, the carriers will negotiate, but the one thing that neither of us are willing to bend on is length of contract: I want no contract and they want 3 years. They won't offer any deals without a 3 year contract.

[Eug]

Fair enough.

In my case I've been with the same carrier anyway since the late 1990s, without a contract for many of those years, but I figured that since I've never felt any great need to switch I may as well just get a contract with them.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

The 7" fire? Bleh. The iPad is definitely worth $300 more, to me. Of course, I'd rather run iOS than Android, it's a better mobile OS. Honeycomb is still buggy and jittery and I'd rather not deal with it unless I'm just tinkering.

You're a millionaire. Of course a 150% price increase is worth it to you.

You're also drawing some interesting conclusions on the Fire. Why are you talking about Honeycomb?

[freudling]

Well, I'll chime in. We do all things tablets and smartphones at my business. We've done extensive testing and have spent a great deal of time looking at different tablets. At first 7" tablets I thought we could squeeze in and make do with them for publishing. After some time, they just suck for content other than flipping through pages in a Kindle App.

They suck for web browsing (too much pinching and zooming)
They suck for magazines and newspapers (too much pinching and zooming)
They suck for other tasks too.

All this in the context of comparing 7" tablets to bigger size ones like the iPad: the perfect size. Web browsing, reading magazines, etc. makes sense there.

Amazon is going to be in for a big surprise when the era of 4" smartphones gets ushered in with the iPhone 5. If you thought 7" tablets weren't big enough to compete with a smartphone, it's going to be doubly so when these new, larger screened smartphones hit the market in droves.

After all this time I have to say Jobs was right: 7" tablets are tweeners. Not worth the tradeoffs of a bigger clunk of plastic to hold in your hands over the much smaller, more compact smartphone that is just as capable in many respects, and way more portable and easier to hold and take with you.

I haven't even gotten to all the other crap wrong with the Fire: it's just so stripped down.

Now that so many consumers are carrying capable smartphones, nobody needs this.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

At first 7" tablets I thought we could squeeze in and make do with them for publishing. After some time, they just suck for content other than flipping through pages in a Kindle App.

I haven't even gotten to all the other crap wrong with the Fire: it's just so stripped down.

Now that so many consumers are carrying capable smartphones, nobody needs this.

I have a very strong suspicion that Amazon isn't thinking of the Fire so much as an iPad killer as it is thinking of it as the next generation eReader with some extra capabilities. 7" is the best size for reading eBooks, and, oh look, what industry is Amazon leading in?

I know many people who currently own both a Kindle AND an iPad. Some of those people may choose to upgrade their Kindle to the Fire, without deprecating their iPad. Others, who haven't entered the tablet world yet, might see the Fire as an ideal entry point: great eReader/light-duty tablet combo at a great price.

I've never understood why Apple fans have such a difficult time seeing things at scales: "if it's not an iPod/iPhone/iPad killer, it's crap!". My house is littered with Macs and iThings, but I love what the Fire represents: something else for Apple to think about in Tablet Land and the first low cost tablet with decent quality. There are multiple points of entry for these types of products for different levels of need and disposable income.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I have a very strong suspicion that Amazon isn't thinking of the Fire so much as an iPad killer as it is thinking of it as the next generation eReader with some extra capabilities. 7" is the best size for reading eBooks, and, oh look, what industry is Amazon leading in?

Exactly.

This isn't a direct competitor to the iPad.

They do have overlap, but the aim is completely different.

Amazon builds this hardware to sell content.

Apple offers content to sell (and tie people into) their hardware.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I have a very strong suspicion that Amazon isn't thinking of the Fire so much as an iPad killer as it is thinking of it as the next generation eReader with some extra capabilities. 7" is the best size for reading eBooks, and, oh look, what industry is Amazon leading in?

I know many people who currently own both a Kindle AND an iPad. Some of those people may choose to upgrade their Kindle to the Fire, without deprecating their iPad. Others, who haven't entered the tablet world yet, might see the Fire as an ideal entry point: great eReader/light-duty tablet combo at a great price.

I've never understood why Apple fans have such a difficult time seeing things at scales: "if it's not an iPod/iPhone/iPad killer, it's crap!". My house is littered with Macs and iThings, but I love what the Fire represents: something else for Apple to think about in Tablet Land and the first low cost tablet with decent quality. There are multiple points of entry for these types of products for different levels of need and disposable income.

People aren't going to waste the money they don't have on a redundant, defunct device. The reason people buy a Kindle alongside the iPad is because of the eInk screen. And this is really a small group of people. Amazon could price this even at $99 and I still think in the end it won't sell that well. It'll get some traction in the beginning because of hype.

7" really is a tweener. I'm throwing down with Jobs. It's just not useful to people: an in between category with too many tradeoffs...

And somebody mentioned somewhere else: the kind of people buying a cheap tablet are crap customers. Not much revenue will be generated from them. I heard build of materials is $206 on the Fire so they could be losing money on the sales. Might be a big mistake from Amazon. I see the Nook as a fad and they got sucked into that tweener market.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

The reason people buy a Kindle alongside the iPad is because of the eInk screen. And this is really a small group of people.

Oh? Do you have something to back up that claim?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

People aren't going to waste the money they don't have on a redundant, defunct device. The reason people buy a Kindle alongside the iPad is because of the eInk screen. And this is really a small group of people. Amazon could price this even at $99 and I still think in the end it won't sell that well. It'll get some traction in the beginning because of hype.

7" really is a tweener. I'm throwing down with Jobs. It's just not useful to people: an in between category with too many tradeoffs...

Intent is key. This thing is NOT an iPad competitor. This thing is a BOOK with benefits. That's what you're missing: Kindle Fire is a replacement not for iPad, but for pocket paperbacks. The form factor makes a substantial difference for its primary intended usage.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Oh? Do you have something to back up that claim?

Yes in fact I do, which is why I said it. We paid for the data.

I'll also say something else. Amazon is very US centric. I've been to several countries where the people have never heard of it, where Amazon has no reach. Whispernet and the Kindle is really mostly about the US.

The iPad has a much wider reach and is pushed by the success of the iPhone. This won't change anytime soon and it will work against the Fire.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Intent is key. This thing is NOT an iPad competitor. This thing is a BOOK with benefits. That's what you're missing: Kindle Fire is a replacement not for iPad, but for pocket paperbacks. The form factor makes a substantial difference for its primary intended usage.

I think this is a common mistake people are making. You're right the smaller size is a book replacement more so than the iPad. But the iPad isn't big. It's incredibly light and thin. And reading books on it is excellent.

The thing is, people get a general purpose computer with the iPad; with the Fire it's just a shell. I don't see it as enough of a value proposition for people to jump into a color tablet that lacks so much.

What has the market said? 7" tablets are dead generally, except the Nook which has had respectable sales. But I think it's a fad that's going to die. A waste of money. It's all about jumbo smartphones, the iPad, and MacBook Airs.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

But the iPad isn't big. It's incredibly light and thin. And reading books on it is excellent.

I couldn't disagree more. I read books on my iPad all the time, but it weighs a tonne compared to the Kindle and needs to be propped up for extended reading while the Kindle does not.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

The thing is, people get a general purpose computer with the iPad;

Exactly. Whereas a 7" screen is more appropriately purposed for reading.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I think this is a common mistake people are making. You're right the smaller size is a book replacement more so than the iPad. But the iPad isn't big. It's incredibly light and thin. And reading books on it is excellent.

It is considerably less excellent than reading books in paperback, though, which is a problem the Amazon Fire fixes.

And yes, the iPad IS big. The point of pocket paperbacks is that they fit in pockets.

[Wiskedjak]

The iPad is "incredibly thin and light", when compared with laptops, but it's incredibly bulky and heavy when compared with paperbacks.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Exactly. Whereas a 7" screen is more appropriately purposed for reading.

Actually, this isn't true. Basic eBooks... well, those can be read on pretty much any size screen.

The problem comes from more interactive content. Amazon is pushing newspapers and magazines with this too. And it sucks reading those on a 7" screen.

And isn't surfing the Web "reading" too? Yup, it is. Web surfing on 7" tablets sucks.

Bottom line: there is nothing to "fix" with the iPad: it's the hottest consumer tech product outside of the iPhone on the planet. All this stuff is just... noodles being thrown at the wall by copy and paste companies trying to see what sticks. Except most of it isn't sticking at all.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Actually, this isn't true. Basic eBooks... well, those can be read on pretty much any size screen.

They cannot be pocketed at pretty much every size screen.

BY FAR the most common form of in-commute distraction used to be paperback books.

Originally Posted by freudling 

The problem comes from more interactive content. Amazon is pushing newspapers and magazines with this too. And it sucks reading those on a 7" screen.

Yes, iPad is better at doing this than the Kindle Fire. This is not the Fire's primary aim.

Originally Posted by freudling 

And isn't surfing the Web "reading" too? Yup, it is. Web surfing on 7" tablets sucks.

Yes, iPad is better at doing this than the Kindle Fire. This is not the Fire's primary aim.

Originally Posted by freudling 

Bottom line: there is nothing to "fix" with the iPad: it's the hottest consumer tech product outside of the iPhone on the planet. All this stuff is just... noodles being thrown at the wall by copy and paste companies trying to see what sticks. Except most of it isn't sticking at all.

This isn't an attempt to "fix" the iPad, as this isn't really intended as a competitor to the iPad. This is aimed at a different market, one it is probably better suited for than the iPad is.

iPad is a handheld computer that "also does" ebook reader.

Kindle Fire is an ebook reader that "also does" handheld computing.

There will be overlap, and I'm sure the Kindle Fire will cost Apple some (but not many) iPad sales, but it seems pretty clear to me that both iPad and Kindle Fire are going to (continue to) sell like crazy, possibly even completely killing the market for any other entrant into the tablet space.

Windows 8 might stand a fighting chance due to its "and-the-kitchen-sink" stance on bringing full PC backwards-compatibility to (non-ARM) handhelds eventually, but I suspect it will be far too late by then, and Microsoft's Windows empire will fade into the "full PC" (increasingly-niche) market.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

They cannot be pocketed at pretty much every size screen.

BY FAR the most common form of in-commute distraction used to be paperback books.


Yes, iPad is better at doing this than the Kindle Fire. This is not the Fire's primary aim.


Yes, iPad is better at doing this than the Kindle Fire. This is not the Fire's primary aim.


This isn't an attempt to "fix" the iPad, as this isn't really intended as a competitor to the iPad. This is aimed at a different market, one it is probably better suited for than the iPad is.

iPad is a handheld computer that "also does" ebook reader.

Kindle Fire is an ebook reader that "also does" handheld computing.

There will be overlap, and I'm sure the Kindle Fire will cost Apple some (but not many) iPad sales, but it seems pretty clear to me that both iPad and Kindle Fire are going to (continue to) sell like crazy, possibly even completely killing the market for any other entrant into the tablet space.

Windows 8 might stand a fighting chance due to its "and-the-kitchen-sink" stance on bringing full PC backwards-compatibility to (non-ARM) handhelds eventually, but I suspect it will be far too late by then, and Microsoft's Windows empire will fade into the "full PC" (increasingly-niche) market.

I think you're missing it. There is no debate about whether the Kindle Fire is competition for the iPad from Amazon's perspective. Bezos cut the iPad in his presentation, and his signed note on Amazon.com takes direct aim at Apple/the iPad about Amazon offering the lowest price to the consumer, and how he implies the other guy... being Apple... charges the high price.

And if you think Amazon is just meaning that the Fire is an eBook reader you're wrong. Amazon is marketing this as a newspaper and magazine device as well. They've been bragging about their deals with publishers and including this stuff in their marketing. Amazon is also trying to corner educational textbooks because this is a big market for interactive eBooks moving forward. The fatal flaw here is the 7" screen: Amazon won't get anywhere with publishers because consumers won't buy the content because the device isn't the correct size.

People will continue to buy iPads and companies like Inkling and others will continue to challenge any hegemony Amazon has left in the publishing world.

[Eug]

I find the iPad awkward to hold. It's a two-hand device, and it's comparatively heavy. It's nearly 50% heavier than the Fire. Now I've never held a Fire in my hand, but I've held the Samsung. That thing is lighter than the Fire, but it does feel light as a feather compared to the iPad. In some ways I actually find the much heavier Apple laptops less awkward than the iPad, because you can simply put them on the table. You can do that with an iPad if you buy a case, but the default Apple case is pretty unstable, and the more stable ones add even more weight.

The resolutions are relatively close, at 1024x600 for the Fire, and 1024x768 for the iPad.

The Fire is 170 ppi, and the iPad is 132 ppi. This puts the iPad at roughly the same pixel density as the MacBook Air, and the Fire at a similar pixel density to the iPhone 3GS (163 ppi). Compare that to my 13" MacBook Pro's 113 ppi. So, the iPad's got a moderately high pixel density like the MacBook Air, which means to get a decent resolution it has to have a relatively large size as well (for this class of device). OTOH, the 7" Fire goes for a higher pixel density to achieve that 1024xXXX resolution at 7", to improve portability.

For more extended usage for a portable, I prefer about 115 ppi or lower. For a desktop I prefer about 100 or lower. For an ultraportable device with a higher pixel density I don't like using it for long periods of time, so if I'm going to emphasize a feature on an ultraportable, that key factor is of course the portability, in terms of size and weight. I don't like carrying the iPad with me because of its limitations vs. a laptop, but it's sorta almost as big as a MacBook Air, and more awkward to use.

So to me, neither the iPad nor the Fire seem absolutely ideal, but I definitely see benefits to both designs. And if portability and cost are an issue to the buyer, the Fire is most definitely a competitor to the iPad. Perhaps not a direct competitor, but the overlap is significant.

BTW, there is absolutely nothing stopping Amazon from releasing a 10" unit for say $299, and they could theoretically release it with the exact same 1024x600 resolution, for people who prefer lower pixel densities but who don't mind the increased size, weight, and awkwardness, aka iPad fans. Would that make it a direct iPad competitor in your eyes? It would to me.

Apple actually did just that, BTW, with their laptops. They sold both a 12" and a 14" iBook, and both had the same 1024x768 resolution. IIRC, both models sold well despite the fact the 14" had no increase in the resolution. I personally much preferred the smaller 12" because of its better portability, lighter weight, and last but not least, lower price.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

...

Apple actually did just that, BTW, with their laptops. They sold both a 12" and a 14" iBook, and both had the same 1024x768 resolution. IIRC, both models sold well despite the fact the 14" had no increase in the resolution. I personally much preferred the smaller 12" because of its better portability, lighter weight, and last but not least, lower price.

Ya, it's pretty clear on here your stance on the iPad. Whatever your preference is valid, no doubt. But the world... well, it's buying into the iPad.

I do like smaller form factors too Eug. Lighter, smaller in the hands, sure, it's better in terms of holding it for long periods of time. But the problem is this: the 7" screen is too much of a tradeoff over a 4" smartphone like the iPhone 5 to be valuable to consumers. It's just not needed. What will compel someone to both buy and actually get real solid use out of a tablet is the larger screen size, like that of the iPad (4:3 screen).

We work with tablets and publishing everyday and I can tell you now, after all this time: I've tested them all, and continue to do so. All of us. I'm, again, throwing down with Jobs. 7" are tweeners. They really suck for publishers.

tweener |ˈtwēnər|
noun informal
a person or thing considered to be between two other recognized categories or types: Price considered him a tweener, too small for a lineman and too big for a linebacker.
• short for tweenager.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Ya, it's pretty clear on here your stance on the iPad. Whatever your preference is valid, no doubt. But the world... well, it's buying into the iPad.

Well, I wasn't interested in the $499 PlayBook either. If it had been $199, and if it had a real email reader, I might have bought one.

What will compel someone to both buy and actually get real solid use out of a tablet is the larger screen size, like that of the iPad (4:3 screen).

7" are tweeners. They really suck for publishers.

Well, my bias probably partially comes from the fact that I dislike most iPad magazines and I dislike iPad books anyway, so neither are a huge concern to me. But it's moot, since the 10" iPad is too big to carry around anyway. If I were to carry something in addition to my iPhone, it'd be a 7" device, in my coat pocket.

It's sort of like that argument of the point and shoot, vs. current mirrorless with interchangeable lenses, vs. dSLR. I'd carry around a point and shoot in addition to my iPhone, and for the times it's necessary, I'll carry around a dSLR and another lens. But I usually won't carry around something in between.

Arguably, the iPad is that tweener like that mirrorless camera with interchangeable lenses. But that's me, and lots of people like that iPad, and lots of people like that tweener camera. In fact the hardware is excellent, and it represents a whole new popular class of device, but to say that people only will buy that from now on instead of a much more portable device for much less money doesn't make much sense.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I'm liking the Kindle touchscreen reader. I'll probably get one, whenever it comes out, depending on what the reviews say.

[Eug]

The part that does concern me is whether or not I can tether the Fire from my iPhone. If I can't, then it would make it useless as a portable device away from home for me.

It'd still be able to do the same things I do with the iPad at home though, which does not include much e-publishing at this point. I'd rather just surf to the magazine websites.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Well, I wasn't interested in the $499 PlayBook either. If it had been $199, and if it had a real email reader, I might have bought one.

Well, my bias probably partially comes from the fact that I dislike most iPad magazines and I dislike iPad books anyway, so neither are a huge concern to me. But it's moot, since the 10" iPad is too big to carry around anyway. If I were to carry something in addition to my iPhone, it'd be a 7" device, in my coat pocket.

It's sort of like that argument of the point and shoot, vs. current mirrorless with interchangeable lenses, vs. dSLR. I'd carry around a point and shoot in addition to my iPhone, and for the times it's necessary, I'll carry around a dSLR and another lens. But I usually won't carry around something in between.

Arguably, the iPad is that tweener like that mirrorless camera with interchangeable lenses. But that's me, and lots of people like that iPad, and lots of people like that tweener camera. In fact the hardware is excellent, and it represents a whole new popular class of device, but to say that people only will buy that from now on instead of a much more portable device for much less money doesn't make much sense.

Well Eug, you're certainly the contrarian of the day...

Let me guess, with both inside pockets occupied, would the Newton go in your back pocket?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Let me guess, with both inside pockets occupied, would the Newton go in your back pocket?

The Newton was overpriced, yet not so useful, much like the PlayBook.

I took my Handspring Visor everywhere with me though.

I take 10"+ devices with me only when I really need them... and the 10"+ device I will take is either my 11" laptop or else my 13" laptop (usually the latter). My 10" iPad stays at home.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

You're a millionaire. Of course a 150% price increase is worth it to you.

You're also drawing some interesting conclusions on the Fire. Why are you talking about Honeycomb?

I'm cheap. Getting a TouchPad for $99 made me excited. I guess the Fire will be running Froyo or Gingerbread. That's not much to hang their hat on. iOS is just better. Hell, with enough processing power, WebOS is better than Android too.

[imitchellg5]

You're missing the point. The point of the Fire is that it doesn't matter what version of Android it is, or really even that it's Android at all. The point is the Amazon have completely circumnavigated the entire Android tablet marketplace with Android's own (bs) argument: openness. The same openness that Google boasts about has allowed Amazon to create a very specific user experience that cuts Google and everyone else out of the picture. It's brilliant.

[Shaddim]

Umm, no, Android is buggy s***. I can't stand it, unless I'm just tinkering. I've yet to use anything based on 2.x or 3.x Android that wasn't flaky to some degree.

[Eug]

I was just telling a friend of mine that the Fire at $199 interests me more than the Touchpad at $99.

That said, I will reserve final judgement until I get a Fire in Canada in my hands.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Umm, no, Android is buggy s***. I can't stand it, unless I'm just tinkering. I've yet to use anything based on 2.x or 3.x Android that wasn't flaky to some degree.

I'm running stock Android as it shipped from Google on my phone and it isn't buggy at all. And you haven't handled a Fire yet (no one has besides Amazon), so passing judgement seems way too soon. Thanks for completely ignoring my point though and just shouting on about your personal experience with unrelated products.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I'm running stock Android as it shipped from Google on my phone and it isn't buggy at all. And you haven't handled a Fire yet (no one has besides Amazon), so passing judgement seems way too soon. Thanks for completely ignoring my point though and just shouting on about your personal experience with unrelated products.

Does the Fire run Android? Yes. That's enough for me not to get my hopes up that this won't be squirrely too. Feel free to get upset, though. I guess saying that you don't really care for a mobile OS is about the same as insulting someone's mother, in certain circles.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Does the Fire run Android? Yes. That's enough for me not to get my hopes up that this won't be squirrely too. Feel free to get upset, though. I guess saying that you don't really care for a mobile OS is about the same as insulting someone's mother, in certain circles.

I could care less what you think about Android, it'd just be nice if that when you respond to someone, you'd actually respond to what they wrote. I'm talking about Amazon completely avoiding Google and the problems inherent with Android tablets and you're just arguing that Android is buggy. And you should know from my previous posts that I'm not a huge Android fan, I just have to have it. But it's hardly as buggy as you suggest.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

ya, the carriers will negotiate, but the one thing that neither of us are willing to bend on is length of contract: I want no contract and they want 3 years. They won't offer any deals without a 3 year contract.

Yes well thankfully the iPhone 5 will come with iTherapist which will help you deal with your fear of commitment.

[Spheric Harlot]

[freudling]

I agree with Shaddim. Android is a buggy piece of trash. I had high hopes for Gingerbread on tablets but it's ended up being a mess.

Samsung's latest and greatest 10.1 Tab in my extensive testing gets beat up and down in terms of real world speed and reaponsiveness by the iPad 1. It's embarassing.

Android is simply a cheap Chinese knock off of iOS. Trust me. Don't expect good performance from the Fire. It's just lipstick on a pig.

The fact that Amazon may be interested in buying webOS should tell u something.