[MacosNerd]

This is not your typical webhost question

As I'm sure a bunch of your are aware of because of the various webhost threads. I have ICDSoft. Very happy with them but I'm also always looking out for one that may offer a superior products for a competitive price.

Here's my question. ssh access:
ICDSoft for security reasons does not have this. Other webhosts do. I've been looking at (mt) recently because of a recent thread and they do. Other webhosts that offer ssh require you to fax a picture id - why???

Being the geek that I am, its like yeah I want it. I haven't needed it but I want it

so for anyone out there that has a webhost which offers ssh. do you use it and if so what for. I've found I can do just about everything I need via ftp, or icdsoft's control panel. I'm curious to see if anyone uses ssh, I'm sure there are plenty of reasons for it but since I don't know - I figured I'd ask here.

On a side note, I'm probably going to stick with ICDSoft, while the storage and bandwidth quotas are smaller then (mt) the cost 6 dollars vs 20 dollars far out weigh the benefits. I have little to no need to host multiple sites and I've not approached the storage/bandwidth threshold so for me its a good fit. I've asked some questions at (mt) and its taken a while to get a response. Over a day in one case where as my questions at ICDSoft get answered < 10 minutes.

[RAILhead]

I never use it. Back in the day, I used it to setup scripting, but proper CGI install packages can handle that.

[RAILhead]

MT gives you 24 hour turn around via email/contact form, and you can call 24/7.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

MT gives you 24 hour turn around via email/contact form, and you can call 24/7.

Yes and my questions were answered. I would not qualify the turn around time as bad, but you do get spoiled by the 10 minute or less turn around time.

[besson3c]

Things you can do over SSH:

- syncing of files/directories
- automated backups
- secure file transfer (scp and sftp)
- any other forms of automated jobs that work with a remote host
- X11 forwarding (although i don't use this)
- find commands
- grep
- chmod/chown -R
- file compression
- setup server side mail rules
- run PHP and Perl scripts via the command line
- use emacs/vi


You've heard my lecture before, but if you have any data of value you should not be authenticating in clear text via FTP. Suffice to say, SSH access can be infinitely useful.

[MacosNerd]

Thanks for the list.

[stukdog]

I agree with besson3c. I use SSH for the security reasons. Nearly all of my customers do the same thing.

Also, when I'm out of the office, using my phone to SSH into my machine is a lot easier than trying to VNC with my phone, or getting to a hotspot to use my Macbook.

[MacosNerd]

True, but I'm looking to see what usefulness SSH has with working on your webhost, not just the office. Heck I use scp/ssh at work myself but I'm not really seeing any advantages for a webhost. I'm not saying there isn't any but rather asking people who have it with their webhost to tell me what they use it for.

While I didn't say anything to besson, I can do a lot of what he had on his list using the web host console or ftp. scp, x11 forward (I have no idea what that is) find, grep file compressions and of course emacs are not available.

So far I've not found a compelling advantage of using ssh with a webhost. Like I said my current webhost does not offer it, and I've not missed it. I've tried other webhosts that have offered it and other then the geeky gee whizz factor, I've been able to nearly all that need to via the console or ftp.

I don't want this discussion to turn into the problems of ftp and how its much safer to use sftp/scp. I understand and agree scp is a much better alternative. My point in this thread is to figure who why I'd want to use ssh.

[besson3c]

-syncing of files/directories

not possible over FTP - rsync does not use ftp as an rsh.

- automated backups

I don't know of an FTP client that supports public key authentication or something like it that won't exchange a password, thereby requiring interaction and foiling the automation.

- any other forms of automated jobs that work with a remote host

requires public key authentication

- run PHP and Perl scripts via the command line

requires SSH to read stdout

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

not possible over FTP - rsync does not use ftp as an rsh.

I can manually sync files using ftp.

- automated backups

Push of a button on the console, plus I have access to using cron (via the webhost console) and thus making it automated.

- any other forms of automated jobs that work with a remote host

Again I have access to set up automated jobs via cron

- run PHP and Perl scripts via the command line

You're right. I did not say I could everything you had listed but I can do the majority of them using either ftp or ICDSoft's control panel.

Is it ideal, I'm not sure. Do I have as much flexibility and power maybe not has much but so far it seems pretty close.

[besson3c]

How do you sync files via FTP? Where are the automated backups directed to through your admin control panel (which I'm assuming is what you mean by "console"? Console refers to the Unix CLI over a serial port). The whole point of my reference to cron automation is to automatically shuttle files to and from this machine. That is the biggest gain of SSH access on a webhost, you can run your own backups and/or manipulate your files remotely.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

How do you sync files via FTP?

manually by looking over stuff. I didn't say it would be easy of efficient.

Where are the automated backups directed to through your admin control panel

Where are they directed to, I have no idea. I push a button and it gets backed up. I also have the option of downloading them if I wish, or viewing them etc.

The whole point of my reference to cron automation is to automatically shuttle files to and from this machine

If that's the case I probably could easily set something up to do it automatically using their control panel. Would it have the same flexibility as using the CLI, probably not. Can I can the job done with ssh, it appears that I'm really not losing out on too much.

[besson3c]

Then your question has been answered. Obviously what you are describing is in no way ideal, I guess it's just a matter of your priorities with this site/data and how much you value what you are missing.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Then your question has been answered. Obviously what you are describing is in no way ideal, I guess it's just a matter of your priorities with this site/data and how much you value what you are missing.

It is. Since I was wondering what use use or value SSH would be when working with a webhost.

I got some good answers and after researching those answers against what my webhost provides I have come to the conclusion that the advantages of ssh access do not outweigh the other advantages that my webhost provides - for my needs.

[besson3c]

I strongly suggest using a different password and do not put any sensitive data on this host you will be FTPing to then.

[Oisín]

Does SFTP really require full SSH access?

I can transfer files to and from my school’s servers using SFTP (but not FTP, which is disabled), but I don’t have access to manually SSH’ing into their servers (at least not by doing an ssh -l username hostname command in the Terminal, which is the only way I know how). Is it possible to allow SFTP access, but not ‘regular’ SSH access? Or am I just doing something wrong?

[besson3c]

It is possible to put SFTP on a separate port or something, but basically SFTP is provided with the OpenSSH distribution... It is a part of the SSH package.

[besson3c]

Also, there is secure FTP, which is different than SFTP.