[ghost_flash]

whoa.

[L E]

posting in legendary thread

[mdcarter1]

Amazing men.

[Kilbey]

I recently started watching Band Of Brothers now that it is being shown on the Discovery Channel.

An excellent series. I am tempted to buy the DVD set because I have missed a few episodes.

[phoenixboy]

what is it about?

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
I recently started watching Band Of Brothers now that it is being shown on the Discovery Channel.

An excellent series. I am tempted to buy the DVD set because I have missed a few episodes.

DVD may be a little too expensive but it is really worth it. Lot of excellent interview (including the real band of brother), features, behind-the-scene, etc.

I throughly enjoyed it. Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks are a master at story telling and directing.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by phoenixboy:
what is it about?

The story of Easy Company of the US Army Airbourne Paratrooper division and their mission in WWII France during Operation Overlord.

In short: it's a war movie.

[Daracle]

Yup...I really enjoyed it aswell.

The DVD is totally worth the purchase even if just to be able to see the actual men it was based on.

[benign]

A good made for TV movie but does not explain how the US
was so far ahead of the european armies, losing less than 300
thousand men in both europe and the far east campaigns.
I lost family in that war, but was always given the feeling it cost
us a lot more than it really did.

Gave comparatively little, gained so much, a world dominance
that still holds today over billions of people - the power for each
US citizen to consume five times as much food and energy as
anyone else.

[finboy]

Originally posted by benign:
A good made for TV movie but does not explain how the US
was so far ahead of the european armies, losing less than 300
thousand men in both europe and the far east campaigns.
I lost family in that war, but was always given the feeling it cost
us a lot more than it really did.

Gave comparatively little, gained so much, a world dominance
that still holds today over billions of people - the power for each
US citizen to consume five times as much food and energy as
anyone else.

If nothing else, BoB cuts through the revisionist bullsh*t and presents a clean version of how things were. The series, for a change, is actually better than the book.

Oh, and it reminds us of what truly matters -- friendship and the lives of those around us -- and minimizes all the political twaddle about things that aren't particularly relevant: global warming, the price of eggs in Hong Kong, etc.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by benign:
A good made for TV movie but does not explain how the US
was so far ahead of the european armies, losing less than 300
thousand men in both europe and the far east campaigns.
I lost family in that war, but was always given the feeling it cost
us a lot more than it really did.

Gave comparatively little, gained so much, a world dominance
that still holds today over billions of people - the power for each
US citizen to consume five times as much food and energy as
anyone else.

It was a (Great) made for Cable series, and it was very accurate
in regard to the entire lives and times of Easy Company and their
path to Hitler's castle in the hills.

I had family in the war too. My entire family has served and along
with my take, they all agree as to how important this Cable series
was. It was not made for Television, but for HBO.

When you write what you do in your last paragraph, you only
serve yourself, and belittle the great effort to overthrow the satanic
Hitler and his forces which attempted to wipe out all minorities,
including the Jewish people.

[benign]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
...When you write what you do in your last paragraph, you only
serve yourself, and belittle the great effort to overthrow the satanic
Hitler and his forces which attempted to wipe out all minorities,
including the Jewish people.

Those are fine words but not why the war was fought.
You are a fool for believing it to be anything other than
an unexpected bonus and not the end in or of itself.
to save minorities.

The show which aired on TV was a good dramatization
of a few solders war stories.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by benign:
Those are fine words but not why the war was fought.
You are a fool for believing it to be anything other than
an unexpected bonus and not the end in or of itself.
to save minorities.

The show which aired on TV was a good dramatization
of a few solders war stories.

Why don't you try to NOT put words into my posts that do
NOT exist. OK? Can we agree that you won't ever do that
again?

Why don't you tell me why we fougth the friggin war?
Mr. Expert.

I've got a few stories I *could* tell, but really I don't need
to blow the horn and it doesn't serve the topic of WHY
we went to defeat Hitler. Tell us all, why do you think?

I never said it was to free minorities. We didn't know what
the a-hole was doing. We found out for ourselves when we
got there. Remember?

Hitler only failed because of a few reasons and one of them
was because he fought a war on two fronts, and his men
had very limited supplies. Russia gets pretty cold in
December.

I'll wait for you to teach me why we went to defeat Hitler.

Then I'll tell you.

[PacHead]

Band of Brothers is an excellent series. Somebody mentioned the Discovery Channel, but theyre mistaken, it was the History Channel it has been airing on. I have HBO, so i caught it the first time out, but I watched it again on the History Channel, since it is that good. I just wish they could get rid of that Big Yellow "H" in the bottom right corner. No need to constantly remind me which channel Im watching.

One of the best WW2 films-minseries made ever.

Soon, films will be made about the current islamo-nazis that we are fighting.

[benign]

Money and power, the usual.

When did WW2 start and when did we enter ?
Was it when germany started an all out embargo
on transatlantic shipping ?
Meaning the trade of supplies (which the allies
had to pay for) cost more than the insurance cost.
Commercial forces, not love of freedom or hatred
of hitler made the US enter the war.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by benign:
Money and power, the usual.

When did WW2 start and when did we enter ?
Was it when germany started an all out embargo
on transatlantic shipping ?
Meaning the trade of supplies (which the allies
had to pay for) cost more than the insurance cost.
Commercial forces, not love of freedom or hatred
of hitler made the US enter the war.

Thanks for the "microwave" answer. Here is someone's
point of view that I think is better than both of ours.

"America�s involvement in World War Two When war broke out , there was no way the world could possibly know the severity of this guerre. Fortunately one country saw and understood that Germany and its allies would have to be stopped. America�s Involvement in World War two not only contributed in the eventual downfall of the insane Adolph Hitler and his Third Reich, but also came at the precise time and moment. Had the united states entered the war any earlier the consequences might have been worse. Over the years it has been an often heated and debated issue on whether the united states could have entered the war sooner and thus have saved many lives. To try to understand this we must look both at the people�s and government�s point of view. Just after war broke out in Europe, President Roosevelt hurriedly called his cabinet and military advisors together. There it was agreed that the United states stay neutral in these affairs. One of the reasons given was that unless America was directly threatened they had no reason to be involved. This reason was a valid one because it was the American policy to stay neutral in any affairs not having to with them unless American soil was threatened directly. Thus the provisional neutrality act passed the senate by seventy-nine votes to two in 1935. On August 31, Roosevelt signed it into law. In 1936 the law was renewed, and in 1937 a comprehensive and permanent neutrality act was passed (Overy 259). The desire to avoid foreign entanglements of all kinds had been an American foreign policy for more than a century. A very real geographical Isolation permitted the United States to fill up the empty lands of North America free from the threat of foreign conflict(Churchill 563). Even if Roosevelt had wanted to do more in this European crisis (which he did not), there was a factor too often ignored by critics of American policy-American military weakness. When asked to evaluate how many troops were available if and when the United States would get involved, the army could only gather a mere one hundred thousand, when the French, Russian and Japanese armies numbered in millions. Its weapons dated from the first World War and were no match compared to the new artillery that Germany and its allies had. American soldiers were more at home with the horse than with the tank (Overy 273). The air force was just as bad if not worse. In September 1939 the Air Corps had only 800 combat aircrafts again compared with Germany�s 3600 and Russia�s 10,000 . American military Aviation (AMA) in 1938 was able to produce only 1,800, 300 less than Germany, and 1,400 less than Japan. Major Eisenhower, who was later Supreme commander of the Allied forces in the second World War, complained that America was left with only a shell of military establishment (Chapman 234 ). As was evident to Roosevelt the United states military was in no way prepared to enter this European crisis. Another aspect that we have to consider is the people�s views and thought�s regarding the United States going to war. After all let us not forget that the American government is there for the people and by the people and therefore the people�s view did play a major role in this declaration of Neutrality. In one of Roosevelt�s fireside chats he said We shun political commitments which might entangle us In foreign wars...If we face the choice of profits or peace-this nation must answer, the nation will answer �we choose peace� ,in which they did. A poll taken in 1939 revealed that ninety-four per cent of the citizens did not want the united states to enter the war. The shock of World War one had still not left ,and entering a new war, they felt, would be foolish. In the early stages of the war American Ambassador to London was quoted saying It�s the end of the world, the end of everything ( Overy 261). As Richard Overy notes in The Road To War, this growing estrangement from Europe was not mere selfishness. They were the values expressed by secretary of state, Cordel Hull: a primary interest in peace with justice, in economic well-being with stability, and conditions of order under the law. These were principles here on which most Americans (ninety-four percent as of 1939) agreed on. To promote these principles the United States would have to avoid all foreign entanglements, or as Overy puts it any kind of alliance or association outside the western hemisphere. Instead the United States should act as an arbitre in world affairs, encouraging peaceful change where necessary and most and for all discouraging aggression (Overy 263). Why risk going to war, when it is contrary to American policy which most if not all Americans were in agreement with and not mentioning the fact that the American military was in shambles. Yet another factor that led to this decision of Neutrality by President Roosevelt was the American Economy. The health of the American economy could not be jeopardized, whatever was happening elsewhere. It was Roosevelt�s view that the United states would fare well (economically speaking) whether Europe went to war or not. Gold was flowing in from Europe�s capitals; orders were mounting daily for equipment and supplies of all kinds; America was building a battleship for Stalin, aero-engines for France (Overy 277). For most of the 1930�s the United states traded as openly with Germany and Japan, as it did with any other country. Japan relied on fuel oil and scrap iron until 1941. Germany was one of the United States� most important markets during the 1930�s. American investments in Germany increased by forty per cent between 1936 and 1940 ( Wilson 291). America was steadily regaining the prosperity that had diminished during World War 1. The real concern of American business was not the rights or wrongs of trading with fascism but the fear that commercial rivals such as Japan and Germany would exclude American goods from Europe and Asia altogether (273). It is very easy to point and accuse the united states of being selfish, but one has to understand that any negative actions made would have resulted in the United States being almost if not completely out of the economic race. Would the United states have been as prosperous as it is today had they intervened any earlier?"


Continued...

[ghost_flash]

"They probably would have not because at that time in history America needed a boost to return to its earlier status of being economically stable which Germany and its allies so adequately provided. Therefore President Roosevelt was not about to go to war with all axis powers thereby jeopardizing not only the safety of the American people but also the American economy which was so essential to a large and complex country that the United States was at the time. Unless American interests were directly threatened, Roosevelt hesitated to push the button ( Churchill 542). On December 6, 1941 the Japanese Airforce led a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, completely eradicating the port. Finally President Roosevelt could wait no longer. America was now involved and not going to war would only endanger the United states more than it already was. On the following day Roosevelt argued that the attack had given us an opportunity. Congress approved the declaration of war with only one dissenting voice. Eleanor Roosevelt noted that the effect of the Japanese attack was to release my husband from months and pent-up tension and anxiety. Andrew Wheatcroft says in his book The Road To War, It is tempting to see Pearl Harbor as the crisis that Roosevelt was waiting for and did nothing to prevent. America�s most vital interest, defense of American soil, had been challenged. At last America had to go to war and eventually bring an end to the rule of nazi Germany. The Americans upon declaring its Neutrality, gave additional encouragement to Japan and Germany to in a way take over the world, and to Nazify it. Hitler had convinced himself that America had declined in the 1930�s because of social crisis. This misconception also led Japan to confront the United States in 1941. Had the United States entered the war any earlier or later the consequences could have been much worse (If possible). Towards the end of the war Walter Lippmann reporter for the Herald Tribune recalled his experience: When I attempt to compare the America in which I was reared with the America of today, I am struck by how unconcerned I was as a young man with the hard questions which are the subject matter of history. I did not think about the security of the republic and how to defend it (Overy 341). Franklin Delano Roosevelt did think about the security of the republic and defended it magnificently. Leading the United States every step of the way President Roosevelt did a superior job in bringing America into war when he did. Evidently America entered World war 2 at the precise time and moment to once and for all take down Adolph Hitler and the third Reich. "

[benign]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
...I've got a few stories I *could* tell, but really I don't need
to blow the horn and it doesn't serve the topic of WHY
we went to defeat Hitler. Tell us all, why do you think?...

...I'll wait for you to teach me why we went to defeat Hitler.

Then I'll tell you.

Nice cut and paste - I can now clearly
see another person's extended point of view.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by benign:
Nice cut and paste - I can now clearly
see another person's extended point of view.

Yeah, no kidding. Did you read any of it, like the very TOP?

"Thanks for the "microwave" answer. Here is someone's
point of view that I think is better than both of ours.

"America�s involvement in World War Two When war broke out , there was no way the world could possibly know the severity of this guerre. Fortunately one country saw and understood that Germany and its allies would have to be stopped. America�s Involvement in World War two not only contributed in the eventual downfall of the insane Adolph Hitler and his Third Reich, but also came at the preci..."

[benign]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:


..."Thanks for the "microwave" answer. Here is someone's
point of view that I think is better than both of ours...

You are acting like a jingoistic super idiot, our
proud nation is full of your chauvinistic patriotism.
Always hiding behind your nationalistic pride as if
it's a record of who you really are.

Face it - crass commercialism is the root of war.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by benign:
You are acting like a jingoistic super idiot, our
proud nation is full of your chauvinistic patriotism.
Always hiding behind your nationalistic pride as if
it's a record of who you really are.

Face it - crass commercialism is the root of war.

"Jingoistic" Is that the DNC's word of the week?

"Chauvanistic"? Ooooookay. You a chic?

Face it - you are wrong in your simpleton view of the world.

[typoon]

This is an amazing series. My brother bought the DVD set for xmas for my dad one year so I've actually sat through the whole thing twice already. It was a cold winter morning. And I got up in the AM and watched til like 10-11pm

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by typoon:
This is an amazing series. My brother bought the DVD set for xmas for my dad one year so I've actually sat through the whole thing twice already. It was a cold winter morning. And I got up in the AM and watched til like 10-11pm

My father, grandfather and I watched the series and it was an amazing experience, especially because my grandfather knew some of those guys.

I'm still glad I started the thread, despite some others turning it into a flame war on why we went, etc... just to further their political preaching.

[Dex13]

The Holocaust Episode was BS, or the Col. was just acting dumb.

America, along w/ it's allies knew that there were camps of this nature, maybe not to the extent of Auswitch but they knew the Jewish people were being unjustly put in camps.

Besides that it was a great series, I really enjoyed when they take Bastonge and Lt. Spears acts all crazy.

[Baphomet]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
When you write what you do in your last paragraph, you only
serve yourself, and belittle the great effort to overthrow the satanic
Hitler and his forces which attempted to wipe out all minorities,
including the Jewish people.

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Face it - you are wrong in your simpleton view of the world.

[Sandbaggins]

Originally posted by Dex13:
The Holocaust Episode was BS, or the Col. was just acting dumb.

America, along w/ it's allies knew that there were camps of this nature, maybe not to the extent of Auswitch but they knew the Jewish people were being unjustly put in camps.

Besides that it was a great series, I really enjoyed when they take Bastonge and Lt. Spears acts all crazy.

I'm sure there were many things that HQ and the Top Dogs (Washington, London) knew that were not passed along to the troops in the field.

Benign... Give it a rest.

[The Placid Casual]

I bought the DVD set when it came out here in the UK.

Awesome to see the courage and bravery people from so far away so willingly gave to Europe.

My Grandmother lost her first husband in Normandy, a few days after D-Day, and my grandfather was in the 8th army at El Alemein... I shudder to think what my response would be be if placed in the same situation that they found themselves in.

I have fond memories of my grandmother and great aunts telling me of the American GI's that came to their small Welsh village, and the high jinks and entertainment they provided. My family were also the first Italians in that particular part of the Welsh Rhondda valley, and subject to massive racism... As soon as the Amercian soldiers saw this they stepped in to help, and made my great grand-parent's shop their official shopping destination!

One day, at the end of may 1944, they all disappeared. Overnight.

Band of Brothers to me, showed at least in part what fortitude they must have had in what came next in their lives.

I have total respect for them, and as far as I am concerned, the debt the UK and Europe owes the US can never be repaid.

[benign]

Originally posted by Sandbaggins:

... Benign... Give it a rest.

Would that be Insomnia from Watching Band of Brothers.

[Sandbaggins]

Originally posted by benign:
Would that be Insomnia from Watching Band of Brothers.

Yes.

[theolein]

Originally posted by Sandbaggins:
...

Benign... Give it a rest.

As much as I don't get on with ghost_flash, I agree that, a) if you want to fight out political battles over WWII, the Pol-Lounge is where it should be, and b) A Band of Brothers was quite a excellent series. It portrayed the soldiers on both sides as human, with their strengths and their weaknesses. It made no excuse for the horrors that awaited Allied soldiers who stumbled upon Nazi death camps as well as isolated incidents of vigilantism, which did occur (There is the well known mass mass execustion of Waffen-SS camp guards during the liberation of the Dachau death camp), but it also showed (in the last episode where the German commander speaks to his men on surrendering) that the average German soldier was also simply doing his supposed duty (The ethics of that can be better discussed in the Pol-Lounge).It showed the bands which hold soldiers together in the extremes of combat and the horror of the killing of war. It didn't portray the GI's as hollywood super heroes, but as genuine human beings, and I found the personal interviews with the men who had been there touching.

I thought it was an excellent series.

[benign]

Originally posted by theolein:
As much as I don't get on with ghost_flash, I agree that, a) if you want to fight out political battles over WWII, the Pol-Lounge is where it should be...

Hey, I said it was an OK TV series but was a little dry
as to how 'small a campaign' it really was and the real why's
of that war - which juveniles like ghost_flash just don't get.
He's the one who did the jumping around like an egypt in
this tread.

We are asked to remember the sacrifice our families
paid but not to ask any real questions - especially from
our TV history makers who reinvent the past for each
new generation -they must stop the viewer and get him to
ask the bigger questions - so the past is not repeated
so readily.