[ghost_flash]

So, says Hillary Clitnon

Express.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

�Hitler made the trains run on time.�

She�s just another spouting a view that�ll be tossed onto history's ash-heap of short-sighted nonsense looked on by later generations as: �What a f�ing idiotic �missing the FAR more relevant details� dumbass thing to say.�

But then again, that�s Hillary.

[chalk_outline]

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

She used to have a computer job. Now she hides in her house.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Had great jobs making lampshades and sorting gold teeth. Good benefits and vacation pay. Life was grand. Then the gravy train ended, and they had to get legitimate jobs that weren�t financed by brutal dictatorships and fueled with the corpses of victims. Boo hoo.

[chalk_outline]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:


Had great jobs making lampshades and sorting gold teeth. Good benefits and vacation pay. Life was grand. Then the gravy train ended, and they had to get legitimate jobs that weren�t financed by brutal dictatorships and fueled with the corpses of victims. Boo hoo.

So are you saying RiverBends job was equal to Nazi work? Read the ****ing blog ********. **** off.

[chalk_outline]

I will post it for you:

"The story of how I lost my job isn�t unique. It has actually become very common- despondently, depressingly, unbearably common. It goes like this�

I�m a computer science graduate. Before the war, I was working in an Iraqi database/software company located in Baghdad as a programmer/network administrator (yes, yes� a geek). Every day, I would climb three flights of stairs, enter the little office I shared with one female colleague and two males, start up my PC and spend hours staring at little numbers and letters rolling across the screen. It was tedious, it was back-breaking, it was geeky and it was� wonderful.

When I needed a break, I�d go visit my favorite sites on the internet, bother my colleagues or rant about �impossible bosses� and �improbable deadlines�.

I loved my job- I was *good* at my job. I came and went to work on my own. At 8 am I�d walk in lugging a backpack filled with enough CDs, floppies, notebooks, chewed-on pens, paperclips and screwdrivers to make Bill Gates proud. I made as much money as my two male colleagues and got an equal amount of respect from the manager (that was because he was clueless when it came to any type of programming and anyone who could do it was worthy of respect� a girl, no less- you get the picture).

What I�m trying to say is that no matter *what* anyone heard, females in Iraq were a lot better off than females in other parts of the Arab world (and some parts of the Western world- we had equal salaries!). We made up over 50% of the working force. We were doctors, lawyers, nurses, teachers, professors, deans, architects, programmers, and more. We came and went as we pleased. We wore what we wanted (within the boundaries of the social restrictions of a conservative society).

During the first week of June, I heard my company was back in business. It took several hours, seemingly thousands of family meetings, but I finally convinced everyone that it was necessary for my sanity to go back to work. They agreed that I would visit the company (with my two male bodyguards) and ask them if they had any work I could possibly take home and submit later on, or through the internet.

One fine day in mid-June, I packed my big bag of geeky wonders, put on my long skirt and shirt, tied back my hair and left the house with a mixture of anticipation and apprehension.

We had to park the car about 100 meters away from the door of the company because the major road in front of it was cracked and broken with the weight of the American tanks as they entered Baghdad. I half-ran, half-plodded up to the door of the company, my heart throbbing in anticipation of seeing friends, colleagues, secretaries� just generally something familiar again in the strange new nightmare we were living.

The moment I walked through the door, I noticed it. Everything looked shabbier somehow- sadder. The maroon carpet lining the hallways was dingy, scuffed and spoke of the burden of a thousand rushing feet. The windows we had so diligently taped prior to the war were cracked in some places and broken in others� dirty all over. The lights were shattered, desks overturned, doors kicked in, and clocks torn from the walls.

I stood a moment, hesitantly, in the door. There were strange new faces- fewer of the old ones. Everyone was standing around, looking at everyone else. The faces were sad and lethargic and exhausted. And I was one of the only females. I weaved through the strange mess and made my way upstairs, pausing for a moment on the second floor where management was located, to listen to the rising male voices. The director had died of a stroke during the second week of the war and suddenly, we had our own little �power vacuum�. At least 20 different men thought they were qualified to be boss. Some thought they qualified because of experience, some because of rank and some because they were being backed by differing political parties (SCIRI, Al-Daawa, INC).

I continued upstairs, chilled to the bone, in spite of the muggy heat of the building which hadn�t seen electricity for at least 2 months. My little room wasn�t much better off than the rest of the building. The desks were gone, papers all over the place� but A. was there! I couldn�t believe it- a familiar, welcoming face. He looked at me for a moment, without really seeing me, then his eyes opened wide and disbelief took over the initial vague expression. He congratulated me on being alive, asked about my family and told me that he wasn�t coming back after today. Things had changed. I should go home and stay safe. He was quitting- going to find work abroad. Nothing to do here anymore. I told him about my plan to work at home and submit projects� he shook his head sadly.

I stood staring at the mess for a few moments longer, trying to sort out the mess in my head, my heart being torn to pieces. My cousin and E. were downstairs waiting for me- there was nothing more to do, except ask how I could maybe help? A. and I left the room and started making our way downstairs. We paused on the second floor and stopped to talk to one of the former department directors. I asked him when they thought things would be functioning, he wouldn�t look at me. His eyes stayed glued to A.�s face as he told him that females weren�t welcome right now- especially females who �couldn�t be protected�. He finally turned to me and told me, in so many words, to go home because �they� refused to be responsible for what might happen to me.

Ok. Fine. Your loss. I turned my back, walked down the stairs and went to find E. and my cousin. Suddenly, the faces didn�t look strange- they were the same faces of before, mostly, but there was a hostility I couldn�t believe. What was I doing here? E. and the cousin were looking grim, I must have been looking broken, because they rushed me out of the first place I had ever worked and to the car. I cried bitterly all the way home- cried for my job, cried for my future and cried for the torn streets, damaged buildings and crumbling people.

I�m one of the lucky ones� I�m not important. I�m not vital. Over a month ago, a prominent electrical engineer (one of the smartest females in the country) named Henna Aziz was assassinated in front of her family- two daughters and her husband. She was threatened by some fundamentalists from Badir�s Army and told to stay at home because she was a woman, she shouldn�t be in charge. She refused- the country needed her expertise to get things functioning- she was brilliant. She would not and could not stay at home. They came to her house one evening: men with machine-guns, broke in and opened fire. She lost her life- she wasn�t the first, she won�t be the last."

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Anyone pining away for the good ol� days of when they were one of the few that had some stupid computer job under some bubble of false security amid a dictatorship, while ignorant of and/or uncaring of the fact that many around them were being denied their rights, raped, tortured, murdered, etc. IS in fact a short-sighted selfish prick moron.

If the shoe fits for your little riverbland �hero� then wear it.

[chalk_outline]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
Anyone pining away for the good ol� days of when they were one of the few that had some stupid computer job under some bubble of false security amid a dictatorship, while ignorant of and/or uncaring of the fact that many around them were being denied their rights, raped, tortured, murdered, etc. IS in fact a short-sighted selfish prick moron.

If the shoe fits for your little riverbland �hero� then wear it.

We just can't meet on this. I think you are a asshole. I have felt that way for a long time. So, I see no need to even continue this conversation. I'm not trying to silence you. I just would not hang out with you in real life. And I won't hang out with you in a internet world.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Gee, that�s really terrible.

Um� and exactly WHO are you again?

[rjenkinson]

under saddam hussein? i can't believe no one has made a joke about the title of this thread... it's comedy gold.

-r.

[eklipse]

Heh.

Women weren't the only ones better off under Saddam's rule.

[Spliffdaddy]

cool. that'll make a nice signature.

mind if I quote you?

[ghost_flash]

You likey? I thought it funny too, and was waiting for someone else to grab a hold of that one...

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
Anyone pining away for the good ol� days of when they were one of the few that had some stupid computer job under some bubble of false security amid a dictatorship, while ignorant of and/or uncaring of the fact that many around them were being denied their rights, raped, tortured, murdered, etc. IS in fact a short-sighted selfish prick moron.

As opposed to getting murdered now - just for having some stupid computer job, under some bubble of false security amid liberty, equality, democracy, and freedom?

Moron.

-s*

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
As opposed to getting murdered now -

Moron.

-s*

Esc,use me?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Esc,use me?

Read. The. Thread.

from an early riverbend blog entry, posted by chalk_outline:
Over a month ago, a prominent electrical engineer (one of the smartest females in the country) named Henna Aziz was assassinated in front of her family- two daughters and her husband. She was threatened by some fundamentalists from Badir�s Army and told to stay at home because she was a woman, she shouldn�t be in charge. She refused- the country needed her expertise to get things functioning- she was brilliant. She would not and could not stay at home. They came to her house one evening: men with machine-guns, broke in and opened fire. She lost her life- she wasn�t the first, she won�t be the last.

-s*

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Read. The. Thread.

-s*

No, I was referring to you derrogotory remark, calling someone a moron. I read the thread. You have no right to personally attack anyone.

And. I. Did. Read. The. Thread.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
No, I was referring to you derrogotory remark, calling someone a moron. I read the thread. You have no right to personally attack anyone.

And. I. Did. Read. The. Thread.

Then I'm sure you caught the word "moron" in the post I was responding to, hmm?






Thought not.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Anyone pining away for the good ol� days of when they were one of the few that had some stupid computer job under some bubble of false security amid a dictatorship, while ignorant of and/or uncaring of the fact that many around them were being denied their rights, raped, tortured, murdered, etc. IS in fact a short-sighted selfish prick moron.
As opposed to getting murdered now - just for having some stupid computer job, under some bubble of false security amid li

Was he referring to you? I thought it was someone else, not in the thread.

Try using "moron" < quotes. That would do wonders for those replying to you, and by the way, what gives you the right to call him a "moron" as well, if that is the case?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by eklipse:
Heh.

Women weren't the only ones better off under Saddam's rule.

YEAH! So was their military. I'm sure they've had a much harder picking up women (or boys).

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Was he referring to you? I thought it was someone else, not in the thread.

Try using "moron" < quotes. That would do wonders for those replying to you,

You want me to use quotes just so ol' ghost_flash doesn't get all confused?

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
and by the way, what gives you the right to call him a "moron" as well, if that is the case?

Just applying his own criteria.

I didn't offend you, did I?

-s*

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
You want me to use quotes just so ol' ghost_flash doesn't get all confused? Just applying his own criteria.

I didn't offend you, did I?

-s*

It would be proper, and cause less confusion when people are reading your posts.
You offended me in the way you responded. So, yes. You did.

No need to be condescending either, nor mocking.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Then I'm sure you caught the word "moron" in the post I was responding to, hmm?

You misunderstand. You don't have the right to personally attack anyone. Crash does, apparently.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
It would be proper, and cause less confusion when people are reading your posts.
You offended me in the way you responded. So, yes. You did.

No need to be condescending either, nor mocking.

Just out of curiosity, did Crash's use of the word "moron" offend you as well?

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Just out of curiosity, did Crash's use of the word "moron" offend you as well?

Who was he insulting? Spheric? If so, then I agree, he should have been more tactful. What do you care what or how offends me?

Spheric is consistent in his personal attacks. Crash is not constantly doing this.
AGAIN.

Is said. "Two wrongs don't make a right". Did you get that?







"I thought not" < I'll borrow Spheric's own words. AND method of delivery.

[Sven G]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
�Hitler made the trains run on time.�

Even Mussolini, for that matter - at least according to what has been stereotypically (maybe?) said.

BTW, should trains run on time? Yes, whenever possible.

Should trains forcedly - i.e., by fear of repression if the railway employees "underperform", etc., � la Mussolini & Hitler - run "on time"? No, because in this case we have two negatives, which don't make a "true" positive in the real world, as we all know.

An interesting thing is that, in the so-called Spanish civil war/revolution, the Catalan anarchists managed (according to the historical sources) to make trains run on time in a primary, positive way: by making the railway and the trains a common, shared source of "wealth" (not monetary, certainly) and happiness.

Maybe all this hasn't so much to do with Saddam and Iraq, but the final meaning should be obvious: you can't force "democracy" in a "negation of a negation" way (see pre-emptive war) - democracy (and, hopefully, something even better) can only come with a reasonably free will of the populace itself. The fact that, historically, this "free will" has often been forced by wars doesn't really mean that this should be the standard way of producing "progress", anymore...

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Who was he insulting? Spheric? If so, then I agree, he should have been more tactful. What do you care what or how offends me?

Spheric is consistent in his personal attacks. Crash is not constantly doing this.
AGAIN.

Is said. "Two wrongs don't make a right". Did you get that?

I wasn't personally offended, no.

But I found his post offensive, yes.

If somebody said "Niggers are assholes", and you just happen *not* to be black, does that mean you have to condone the statement?

By the same token, I don't think anybody who thinks he or she was better off for NOT having to fear for his or her life just for pursuing an everyday career is a moron.
In my opinion, someone who claims so opens himself up for the same label.

It's not that novel a concept, really.

-s*

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Who was he insulting? Spheric? If so, then I agree, he should have been more tactful. What do you care what or how offends me?

Spheric is consistent in his personal attacks. Crash is not constantly doing this.
AGAIN.

Is said. "Two wrongs don't make a right". Did you get that?

Does it matter who he was insulting.
If two wrongs don't make a right, then why did you only criticize Spheric and not Crash?

[ghost_flash]

I wrote that initially, I didn't KNOW he was insulting Sheric... D-uh.

READ the thread.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
I wrote that initially, I didn't KNOW he was insulting Sheric... D-uh.

READ the thread.

Who did you think he was insulting, and does it matter?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
If somebody said "_ are assholes",

You DID just say it.

Furthermore, you�re the ONLY person on this forum that slings that word around as if you feel you have some right to use it. You�re the ONLY person here that I suspect uses the term in common speech, because you seem completely ignorant of the fact that it�s NOT appropriate. I�ve seen you do so on multiple occasions, and be asked to cut it out.

You�ve got very little room to talk about what you think offends others, when you routinely use offensive language in your ultra-lame attempts at pawning off your own actions onto others.

[ghost_flash]

Crash just described you quite well.
As for those who ask why I , this and that...
Were you offended by Spheric?
Why all the concern on what offends me? I'm touched.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Crash just described you quite well.
As for those who ask why I , this and that...
Were you offended by Spheric?
Why all the concern on what offends me? I'm touched.

I just find it interesting that you found Spheric calling Crash a moron insulting, but not Crash calling Spheric a moron.

Personally, I found neither insulting ... perhaps I'm just a little thicker skinned.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
I just find it interesting that you found Spheric calling Crash a moron insulting, but not Crash calling Spheric a moron.

Personally, I found neither insulting ... perhaps I'm just a little thicker skinned.

You find it "itneresting"? Why? I'm not going to defend someone like Shperic, because of how he has treated me numerous times in these forum. If you feel so "interested" then why not just defend him?

I don't find it "interesting" in the least. I would have moved on long ago, except you have been harping on it for a while now. I'm just enjoying your "interest".

Perhaps, something else?

[Spheric Harlot]

Oh boy...

[ghost_flash]

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
You find it "itneresting"? Why? I'm not going to defend someone like Shperic, because of how he has treated me numerous times in these forum. If you feel so "interested" then why not just defend him?

I don't find it "interesting" in the least. I would have moved on long ago, except you have been harping on it for a while now. I'm just enjoying your "interest".

Perhaps, something else?

The words "double standard" come to mind ...

[ghost_flash]

Enough of the derailing circus...

Here is the topic again:

Hillary: Iraqi Women Better Off Under Saddam

Sen. Hillary Clinton said this week that Iraqi women were better off under Saddam Hussein, arguing that when the brutal dictator ran the country women were at least assured the right to participate in Iraq's public life.

In comments that went unreported by the mainstream press, the former first lady told the Brookings Institution on Wednesday that since Saddam's removal from power, Iraq's postwar governing councils had engaged in "pullbacks in the rights [women] were given under Saddam Hussein."

Sen. Clinton noted that while Saddam had been "an equal opportunity oppressor," women were at least assured certain constitutional guarantees.

While ignoring reports about the brutal dictator's rape rooms and other forms of persecution that were routine for women under his regime, Sen. Clinton insisted: "On paper, women had rights."

And for Iraqi women, those paper promises translated into real benefits, she claimed.

"They went to school, they participated in the professions, they participated in the government and business and, as long as they stayed out of [Saddam's] way, they had considerable freedom of movement," Clinton insisted.

But since Saddam's removal, the plight of Iraq's women has taken a significant turn for the worse, she contended.

"Now what we see happening in Iraq is the governing council attempting to shift large parts of civl law into religious jurisdiction," Sen. Clinton explained, saying the loss of Saddam's guarantees amounted to a "horrific mistake" for women.

During her trip to Iraq last November, Clinton said, Iraqi women told her personally how they felt less safe since the U.S. deposed Saddam.

"Women tell me they can't leave their homes, they can't go about their daily business. And there is a concerted effort to burn schools that are educating girls [and] to intimidate aid workers who are women," the leading Democrat complained.

The former first lady called on President Bush to issue a statement that the U.S. "will not become the vehicle by which women's rights in Iraq are turned back."

A full transcript of Sen. Clinton's remarks is available on the Brookings Institution Web site at: http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/comm.../20040225.pdf. Her remarks on the worsening plight of Iraqi women can be found on pages 19 and 20."

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
The words "double standard" come to mind ...

I'm no more partisan than Spheric is. Double Standard? No. Just a Standard.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
I just find it interesting that you found Spheric calling Crash a moron insulting, but not Crash calling Spheric a moron.

Personally, I found neither insulting ... perhaps I'm just a little thicker skinned.

I haven't found anything insulting in this thread, until Spheric pulled the word "n******" out of his ass to make a comparison.

[cpt kangarooski]

Sven G--
Actually, the train thing was basically propoganda. Insofar as they ran on time, it wasn't attributable to Mussolini (who is, I think, most commonly associated with trains) and they still weren't all that punctual anyway.

Really, there hasn't been a dictator or fascist in the modern era who was good for anything whatsoever -- even trains.