[ghost_flash]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/04/19/nor...ise/index.html

"The exercise was solely to test procedures and was no indication that NORAD had any reason to believe the scenario would happen in the real world, according to a spokesman.

It is unclear whether the simulated scenario was that of a hijacked plane being "used as missile" -- intentionally crashing into a building -- or that of an out-of-control hijacked plane." (Between 1991-2001)

What I find sort of funny is when the WTC buildings or any Skyscrapers are built, they [the engineers] test and calculate for a plane flying into them by accident. When the Empire State Building for example was built, they tested for a plane of that era, like the WTC, they didn't test for a Jet of that size loaded with Jet Fuel... why would they?

[itai195]

lets hope they put more thought into nuclear power plants

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
When the Empire State Building for example was built, they tested for a plane of that era, like the WTC, they didn't test for a Jet of that size loaded with Jet Fuel... why would they?

Interestingly enough, a B-25 bomber crashed into the Empire State Building in 1945- created a huge crater in the side of the 79th floor, and splashed burning fuel all the way down to the 75th floor. But of course the ESB is a 'rigid side' structure able to withstand much greater impacts, not a 'birdcage' steel and glass frame building like modern skyscrapers.

As for 'why would they?' in regards to 'like the WTC' maybe I'm misreading your post. The WTC was built in the era of jets loaded with jet fuel, of the same size and weight we have now. In retrospect, it should have been better tested and designed to cope with a plane crash. It�s arguable that a similar tragedy would have eventually happened anyway by accident.

[Ω]

I thought this was old news.

I remember watching a doco a couple of months after 9/11 called Collisions (or something like that) where they investigated all types of crashs - from cars to planes, and the effect that it had on the human body.

The reason why I remember it is that it had some crazy scientist who argued that high G's were only bad when experienced for long durations. So he experimented on himself by crashing into brick walls (I believe he is still in the Guinness Book of Records for the man who has experienced the most measured G's) and causing himself some horrendous short term injuries (such as detached retinas, internal reorganisation of internal organs etc).

They then went on to examine plane crashes and how to make them safer.

I don't think they ever envisioned that a plane would be used as a weapon like it was in 2001.

[Mithras]

I don't think they ever envisioned that a plane would be used as a weapon like it was in 2001.

This was definitely envisioned, over and over again, for years. It may not have been envisioned by the White House in the months immediately preceding September 11. But various government agencies at various levels and various times, definitely foresaw this possibility.

September 11 Commission Testimony
Executive Director Zelikow:

As we mentioned yesterday in Staff Statement No. 10, this 1998 report was the source of the allusion to hijacking in the president's daily brief article provided to President Bush in August 2001. Other threat reports mentioned the possibility of using an aircraft laden with explosives

Of these, the most prominent asserted a possible plot to fly an explosives-laden aircraft into a U.S. city. This report was circulated in September 1998 and originated from a source who walked into an American consulate in East Asia.

In early '95, Abdul Hakim Murad, Ramzi Yousef's accomplice in the Manila airlines bombing plot, told Philippine authorities that he and Yousef had discussed flying a plane into CIA headquarters.

In addition, an Algerian group hijacked an airliner in 1994 in order to fly it into the Eiffel Tower, but they could not fly the plane.

In early '95, Abdul Hakim Murad, Ramzi Yousef's accomplice in the Manila airlines bombing plot, told Philippine authorities that he and Yousef had discussed flying a plane into CIA headquarters.

A '96 report asserted that Iranians were plotting to hijack a Japanese plane and crash it in Tel Aviv.

In late August, the Moussaoui arrest was briefed to the DCI [edit: i.e., CIA Director George Tenet] and other top CIA officials under the heading, quote, [b]Islamic Extremist Learns to Fly, close quote. The news had no evident effect on warning.

Chicago Tribune

U.S. authorities had identified crop dusters and suicide flights as potential terrorist weapons, taking steps to avert an attack from the air during the 1996 Summer Olympic Games in Atlanta.

In an extraordinary aerial dragnet, launched quietly that summer and kept largely under wraps ever since, Black Hawk helicopters and U.S. Customs Service jets were deployed to intercept suspicious aircraft in the skies over the Olympic venues, officials said. Agents monitored crop duster flights within hundreds of miles of downtown Atlanta.

Law-enforcement agents also fanned out to regional airports throughout northern Georgia "to make sure nobody hijacked a small aircraft and tried to attack one of the venues," said Woody Johnson, the FBI agent in charge of the Atlanta office at the time.

Time Magazine, June 2001

For sheer diabolical genius (of the Hollywood variety), nothing came close to the reports that European security services are preparing to counter a Bin Laden attempt to assassinate President Bush at next month's G8 summit in Genoa, Italy. According to German intelligence sources, the plot involved Bin Laden paying German neo-Nazis to fly remote controlled-model aircraft packed with Semtex into the conference hall and blow the leaders of the industrialized world to smithereens.

In Tom Clancy's novel
Debt of Honor a hijacked jet is used to assassinate Congress, the Supreme Court and the President by crashing into the chamber of Congress -- thereby making Jack Ryan president.

[Powerbook]

Originally posted by itai195:
lets hope they put more thought into nuclear power plants

They did not. I read various remarks about calculations _after_ 9/11, that todays nuclear plants are not save for a direct plane hit on the hull (that is, bigger passenger planes).


PB.

[benb]

I thought I remembered hearing that the WTC was rated for a 737 impact with full tanks, but the engineers did not take into account a building loaded with office supplies.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

[Judge_Fire]

http://vincentdunn.com/ might have some details.

J

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by benb:
I thought I remembered hearing that the WTC was rated for a 737 impact with full tanks, but the engineers did not take into account a building loaded with office supplies.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

You cracked me up. Office Supplies.... I think their may have been too many TOP heavy secretaries in there. (The file of drawers slang term) People, get your heads out of the gutter!!!

[DeathToWindows]

the Empire State crash was what came into my head on 9|11 - I did not hear about the towers collapsing until ~4 hours later. I thought that there were just planes STUCK in the towers - how wrong I was.

[rjenkinson]

Originally posted by benb:
I thought I remembered hearing that the WTC was rated for a 737 impact with full tanks, but the engineers did not take into account a building loaded with office supplies.

that's the standard idiot-engineer joke applied to the WTC. it's told about almost every large building, with variations. for libraries, it's the weight of the books they forgot to take into account.

-r.