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New Lion preview available (Page 7)
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Spheric Harlot
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Jun 10, 2011, 04:24 PM
 
I thought it was a purchase from within Lion?
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 10, 2011, 04:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Nope. Lion server ($49) will also be an app store download, only you will need to be running SL Server in order to down load it. Apples hype about Lion server being part of lIon is really just a bit of baloney mixed with PR jazz. It's only available to Server owners.
How the hell is that going to work? Its bad enough that people on Tiger or Leopard won't be able to (legally) upgrade to Lion at all since you need Snow Leopard first and that will be withdrawn from sale.

There seems no point in making Lion Server an app if you can only run it by first having the soon to be unavailable SL Server or by purchasing a Mac Pro or Mac Mini Server. Surely they will drop the server configs and allow you to use any Mac you want as a server now?

Incidentally, where did you find this information?
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Art Vandelay
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Jun 10, 2011, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Nope. Lion server ($49) will also be an app store download, only you will need to be running SL Server in order to down load it. Apples hype about Lion server being part of lIon is really just a bit of baloney mixed with PR jazz. It's only available to Server owners.
Source of info? Either something has changed all of a sudden or you're wrong. Lion Server is an app download for Lion.
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Art Vandelay
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Jun 10, 2011, 04:42 PM
 
Nope, you're wrong. It's on Apple's own Lion/Lion Server pages. You have to be running Lion first before you can install Lion Server via an app download from the Mac App Store.
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Spheric Harlot
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Jun 10, 2011, 05:19 PM
 
Apple - Mac OS X Lion - Lion Server - How to Buy

Step 2:
Get the latest version of Snow Leopard Server.
You’ll need Snow Leopard Server v10.6.6 or later to purchase Lion and Lion Server from the Mac App Store. If you have Snow Leopard Server, click the Apple icon and choose Software Update to install the latest version.
Hmm.
     
turtle777
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Jun 10, 2011, 05:24 PM
 
So ?

All this tells you is that *IF* you currently own SL Server, you need SLS 10.6.6 to upgrade either to Lion or to Lion Server. Apparently, you have a choice of upgrading SLS -> Lion (w/o server). This shows that Lion Server is a separate ADD-ON.

This does NOT say that SLS is a pre-requisite to Lion Server.

-t
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jun 10, 2011, 05:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
So ?

All this tells you is that *IF* you currently own SL Server, you need SLS 10.6.6 to upgrade either to Lion or to Lion Server. Apparently, you have a choice of upgrading SLS -> Lion (w/o server). This shows that Lion Server is a separate ADD-ON.

This does NOT say that SLS is a pre-requisite to Lion Server.
Yes, it does - and explicitly so, in the only resource dedicated to the actual purchase of Lion Server, the "How to Buy" page.

From the regular page ( Apple - OS X Lion - Learn about the top new features. ) and the Lion Server intro page ( Apple - Lion Server - The server for everyone. ) it would seem to be implied that it's just a $50 app you download within Lion, but that's never explicitly stated - in contrast to the Snow Leopard Server requirement on step 2 of the "how to buy" page.

I agree that it's probably just going to be a purchase within Lion, and I seem to recall that this was stated in the keynote, but the written pages are certainly ambiguous.
     
Art Vandelay
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Jun 10, 2011, 05:57 PM
 
No, it doesn't.

Upgrading your Mac server from Snow Leopard Server to Lion Server couldn’t be more hassle free. Just visit the Mac App Store when Lion becomes available in July. Then click once to buy, download, and install Lion and Lion Server directly to your Mac. That’s it.
The whole page is in the context of already being a Snow Leopard Server owner. If you don't have Snow Leopard Server now, you do not need to get it before getting Lion w/ Lion Server added on.
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Spheric Harlot
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Jun 10, 2011, 06:20 PM
 
Yes, that's very likely, and it was pretty much explicitly stated at the keynote, but it doesn't actually SAY that.
     
solofx7
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Jun 10, 2011, 06:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
Like I said apps need to be modified to use Versions. Pages has not been modified yet. Try it with TextEdit. Also, it's not an option to turn on and off. It's always there with apps that have been written to use the new API.
thanks vandalay... i found it
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Jun 10, 2011, 07:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
This does NOT say that SLS is a pre-requisite to Lion Server.
Exactly right. There's no question about this. Lion Server is explicitly an App Store upgrade for Lion client. They probably had to put the server apps in the app store to slim down the download size of the Lion install disk image.

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Jun 11, 2011, 02:23 AM
 
I wonder if Lion will be tied to your iTunes account, like other App Store purchases. If I buy Lion, burn to disk, then try to install on a friend's computer, what happens?
     
Jonesy
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Jun 11, 2011, 07:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by solofx7 View Post
thanks vandalay... i found it
So hopefully this means that an iWork update is due finally. I have been waiting for iWork 11 since it was first put up on the App Store by mistake when it launched. I hope there is lots to look forward to after the 6 month delay.
     
Doc HM
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Jun 11, 2011, 08:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
How can this not be explicit.

"You need the latest version of Snow Leopard Server to be able to buy Lion Server".
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Spheric Harlot
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Jun 11, 2011, 09:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
How can this not be explicit.

"You need the latest version of Snow Leopard Server to be able to buy Lion Server".
Now, that is what it DOESN'T say. It says that you'll need to update to 10.6.6 to be able to buy Lion and Lion Server (the latest version is currently 10.6.7).

"You’ll need Snow Leopard Server v10.6.6 or later to purchase Lion and Lion Server from the Mac App Store", verbatim.

HOWEVER: It's pretty widely known - because it was explicitly stated at the keynote, IIRC - that Lion Server is merely an add-on application for a regular Lion installation.

So what that line ACTUALLY says is that "IF you have Snow Leopard Server, you'll need at least v. 10.6.6, because that's the version that added the App Store, and you need that to buy Lion, and Lion Server."

There isn't really any disagreement over this - but I agree (and I pointed out) that the wording is misleading.
     
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Jun 11, 2011, 09:54 AM
 
Apple - Press Info - Mac OS X Lion With 250 New Features Available in July From Mac App Store

Their press release says only Lion is required and that it'll be a $50 additional download. I didn't see a link to this in the thread yet, and it's an official document that reinforces what was stated in the keynote, and the release is straightforward.
     
turtle777
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Jun 11, 2011, 10:24 AM
 
Thanks, CW

Btw, Apple on the Lion Server page, Apple writes "The server for everyone".
If you needed SLS to get Lion Server, that would be a ridiculous statement.

-t
     
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Jun 11, 2011, 12:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by ajprice View Post
MacNNUK, SL is on Amazon for £20 so will save you a fiver compared to direct from Apple, I ordered mine yesterday . I've stayed with Leopard because up to now I've always got every other system update and was happy with Leopard on my MacBook.
So did I !!!

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Jun 11, 2011, 02:11 PM
 
Has anyone tried running Lion on a Core Duo Mac? You know, a hacked install, a copied image, etc?

Much like many of Apple's supported OS releases, most actually do run on "unsupported" machines. Is Lion really 64-bit?

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Spheric Harlot
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Jun 11, 2011, 03:33 PM
 
It's not 64-bit on machines with a 32-bit EFI (all 2006 C2D machines, for example).
     
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Jun 12, 2011, 04:55 AM
 
It won't boot 64-bit, but will run all apps in 64bit mode as all Core 2 Duo's and all Mac Pro's have 64-bit CPU's. but pre 2008 machines only have a 32-bit EFI preventing 64-bit booting nothing more, all machines Lion supports are fully capable of running 64bit applications.
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Jun 13, 2011, 06:17 PM
 
DP 4 is working good. There seem to have been some changes made to the book makes bar in Safari. I have some RSS folders and they now appear with a black square next to them, more prominent than before. Other than that and the fact that QT player can now exist full screen mode I haven't noticed anything new.
     
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Jun 13, 2011, 07:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Other than that and the fact that QT player can now exist full screen mode I haven't noticed anything new.
I know this already exists in version 7 for Windows and 10 on SL... unless this is something else new?
     
Doc HM
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Jun 14, 2011, 02:43 AM
 
UK Mac mag seems to confirm. lion Server requires SL server im order to install.

Lion Server: coming in July for £35 | MacUser
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Spheric Harlot
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Jun 14, 2011, 02:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
UK Mac mag seems to confirm. lion Server requires SL server im order to install.

Lion Server: coming in July for £35 | MacUser
Must be a British thing, since they, too, directly contradict the actual press release:
Pricing & Availability
Mac OS X Lion will be available in July as an upgrade to Mac OS X version 10.6 Snow Leopard® from the Mac App Store for $29.99 (US). Lion will be the easiest OS X upgrade and at about 4GB, it is the size of an HD movie from the iTunes Store®. Mac OS X Lion Server requires Lion and will be available in July from the Mac App Store for $49.99 (US).
     
Doc HM
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Jun 14, 2011, 05:11 AM
 
I guess we'll find out soon. Unless we can get someone with connections to actually write this in stone. Some of Apples comms do indeed state directly that Lion Server requires only Lion, while others do state otherwise, as do some Mac journals.
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Jun 14, 2011, 06:50 AM
 
I could be off the mark, but here's where I think is the likely source of confusion: If you're upgrading from SL Server, you'll get Lion Server as a free download from the App Store. If, however, you're upgrading from Lion client, you'll have to buy the Lion Server apps from the App Store for $49.

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turtle777
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Jun 14, 2011, 08:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
UK Mac mag seems to confirm. lion Server requires SL server im order to install.

Lion Server: coming in July for £35 | MacUser
You know this is bullshit.

How is this supposed to work ?
Anybody NEW to Mac and wanting to run Lion Server would need to buy SL Server first ?
Is Apple going to continue to sell SL Server for eternity ?

-t
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 14, 2011, 12:14 PM
 
I just emailed my contacts at Apple about it. I'll let you know if I get an answer.
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Jun 14, 2011, 01:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
You know this is bullshit.

How is this supposed to work ?
Anybody NEW to Mac and wanting to run Lion Server would need to buy SL Server first ?
Is Apple going to continue to sell SL Server for eternity ?

-t
Total bullshit!

I love this gem in the article.

There’s one caveat, however. You’ll need Snow Leopard Server in order to install Lion Server. And in order to install Snow Leopard Server, you need to be running Mac OS X Server 10.4 or 105.
So, you need to first buy Server 10.4 or 10.5 and install it, then buy Server 10.6 and upgrade to it, then buy Lion and upgrade to it, then buy Lion Server and install it. This is such asinine nonsense and is so factually wrong, it's not even funny. You do not need to own any OS to buy Snow Leopard Server. It's a stand alone product. Second, the only requirement for Lion Server is to have Lion. Period!
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Waragainstsleep
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Jun 14, 2011, 02:19 PM
 
My guess is anyone new to Mac wanting Lion server will have to buy a Mac Pro or Mac Mini Server. That also seems utterly stupid.
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Art Vandelay
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Jun 14, 2011, 02:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
My guess is anyone new to Mac wanting Lion server will have to buy a Mac Pro or Mac Mini Server. That also seems utterly stupid.
Why would you guess that? Any Mac running Lion can add Lion Server from the App Store.
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solofx7
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Jun 16, 2011, 08:24 AM
 
There are some nice updates in this version.
Launchpad now shows the icons of previously installed apps.
When opening a tab in Safari, the lag is now gone.
Overall lag/system performance has gone up.
There are other things going on, still looking into them...
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Jun 16, 2011, 08:40 AM
 
Any update to what happens with full screen apps on dual screens? Up to now the second screen has shown the grey linen wallpaper - Mac OS X Lion Full Screen Apps Limit Multi-Monitor Usage | Ubergizmo

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
solofx7
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Jun 16, 2011, 08:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by ajprice View Post
Any update to what happens with full screen apps on dual screens? Up to now the second screen has shown the grey linen wallpaper - Mac OS X Lion Full Screen Apps Limit Multi-Monitor Usage | Ubergizmo
That I cannot really speak to based on the fact that I have a 27inch iMac and a MacBook Pro, but I do not have a second monitor on either.
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Jun 16, 2011, 09:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by solofx7 View Post
That I cannot really speak to based on the fact that I have a 27inch iMac and a MacBook Pro, but I do not have a second monitor on either.
I thought the 27 inch iMac could be used as an external display for the Macbook Pro? (assuming you have the display port cable)
     
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Jun 16, 2011, 10:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by Andy8 View Post
I thought the 27 inch iMac could be used as an external display for the Macbook Pro? (assuming you have the display port cable)
Only other thunderbolt equipped macs can be used as external screens for other thunderbolt Macs, no. Pre thunderbolt iMacs should be able to be used as second screens though, but only for another non thunderbolt Mac.
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Jun 16, 2011, 10:46 AM
 
It's the return of the operating system being able to report exactly which Mac you have, after 17 years.

System 7.0 and 7.1 (and perhaps earlier releases) used to identify what Mac you had in the "About this Macintosh" box. The box would report, "Macintosh LC III" or "Power Macintosh 7100/66" along with the memory used info.

Around System 7.5 or so, the system stopped being able to identify the computer beyond simply reporting "Macintosh" or "Power Macintosh." With Mac OS 7.6, "About this Macintosh" became "About this Computer" (clone era).

Throughout it's release, Mac OS X has always just reported "Mac OS X" and the processor type in the box.

But with the software update to Lion DP4, the ability to identify which Mac you have has been restored to the OS, as detailed here. At the end of that page is a screen shot showing the "About this Mac" box, which says it's running on a "MacBook, 13 inch, Aluminum, Late 2008."
     
ajprice
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Jun 16, 2011, 10:50 AM
 
Users still cannot use multiple windows of a full-screen app in one “desktop” if using an external display.
That link answered my question, thanks Person Man .

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Jun 16, 2011, 01:16 PM
 
Yah the lack of consideration for dual monitor setups is a bit frustrating. Oh well. That said DP4+ is pretty freaking awesome. It's fixed all the bugs I've noticed aside from Image Capture not scanning properly into the pictures folder.
     
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Jun 21, 2011, 05:47 PM
 
From the Jobs's mouth (apparently) - Clean installs of Lion will require an install of Snow Leopard first if your Mac did not come with an original Lion install on the drive.

I assume this refers to the recovery partition on new Macs that will allow the Mac to boot and download Lion and install it. So older mac owning users will need to keep their SL dvd handy.

www.bit.ly/ireDCG
( Last edited by Doc HM; Jun 21, 2011 at 05:55 PM. )
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Jun 21, 2011, 05:55 PM
 
Only when replacing the internal drive or if the entire drive is hosed. If the Recovery partition is still functioning, then older Macs can clean install Lion without first installing 10.6.
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Doc HM
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Jun 21, 2011, 06:06 PM
 
I wonder how long it will take apps like CCC and SuperDuper to evolve to copy the recovery partition at the same time as they make a clone. Not long hopefully.
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Jun 21, 2011, 08:01 PM
 
I've read that it's just a disk image that has some fairy dust sprinkled on it to allow it to serve as a recovery "partition."

Lame about the clean installation limitation, but very cool that the OS can identify your model Mac - thanks for reporting that, Person Mac.

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Art Vandelay
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Jun 21, 2011, 08:14 PM
 
No, it's a real partition. From diskutil list

4: Apple_Boot Recovery HD 654.6 MB disk0s4
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solofx7
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Jun 21, 2011, 08:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Yah the lack of consideration for dual monitor setups is a bit frustrating. Oh well. That said DP4+ is pretty freaking awesome. It's fixed all the bugs I've noticed aside from Image Capture not scanning properly into the pictures folder.
I thought I was the only one having that image capture issue.
DP4 update is great. Still somme small bugs, but it is better overall.
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Jun 21, 2011, 11:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
From the Jobs's mouth (apparently) - Clean installs of Lion will require an install of Snow Leopard first if your Mac did not come with an original Lion install on the drive.

I assume this refers to the recovery partition on new Macs that will allow the Mac to boot and download Lion and install it. So older mac owning users will need to keep their SL dvd handy.

Mac OS X Lion clean install may need Snow Leopard disc | Electronista
Burning the downloaded install image to DVD or restoring it to an external drive works though, so you don't really need SL once you've created an install disk.
     
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Jun 25, 2011, 04:03 PM
 
Leopard was the last OS upgrade that I can say I was excited about. SL was ok but a bit "meh" and Lion... I don't even have an opinion about that any more than your average security or maintenance update.

The turnoff is probably the consuming-oriented aspect of Lion. I don't use a computer to consume, and I despise the Mac App Store.

I use a computer to make my life more creative, it is a tool. I don't use my computer to give money to other people so they can be creative. In other words; my computer is not a toy or a distraction.

Lion is a huge disappointment. The "back to iOS" in Lion wasn't funny. Axing of XServe wasn't a good sign. Making FCP a prosumer app is telling.

Honestly, if someone would ask me whether Apple would even be in the business of computers (desktops or laptops) in 5 years.. I wouldn't know what to reply. Probably not?
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Jun 25, 2011, 04:23 PM
 
Well, it's not like there are better alternatives. Windows? Linux?

I'd rather stick with OS X, even if gets more consumer oriented.
Btw, remember when OS X came out first, how many people ridiculed it for it's simplistic user interface, saying it wouldn't cater to professionals like OS 9 did. Deja voo(doo) ?

-t
     
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Jun 25, 2011, 04:52 PM
 
To a point I have to Agree with Voodoo. I'm not liking the iOS approach, and more so the Mac App Store. If I wanted that experience I'd buy an iPad. I haven't used Lion yet to say whether overall I will hate it or not. As long as the "iOS" experience isn't thrown in my face, I can live with it for now.

The only thing I DO like about the App Store is Apple and Steam seem to be the only ones passing the distributing and packaging savings to the customer. Hopefully that starts to go around with other companies more as we are being forced into digital distribution more and more.
     
 
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