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Brexit?
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 24, 2016, 12:38 AM
 
So the vote was for Brexit by nearly 2%, now let's see if voting in the UK actually means anything and the British gov't follows through. I have my doubts.
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Jun 24, 2016, 12:44 AM
 
Cameron doesn't have the balls to go against the vote.

Good riddance, EU.

F$&@ you very much.

-t
     
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Jun 24, 2016, 12:55 AM
 
I can't believe you've done this.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 24, 2016, 01:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
So the vote was for Brexit by nearly 2%, now let's see if voting in the UK actually means anything and the British gov't follows through. I have my doubts.
For once I hope you're right. I can't see it though, none of our politicians have any balls.

I guess we have as many racist morons in our country as you do. Percentage-wise. Good luck with President Trump.
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Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jun 24, 2016, 01:08 AM
 
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Hawkeye_a
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Jun 24, 2016, 01:17 AM
 


Kudos UK.

Capn'.... Leave now has ~4% lead.
A great infographic from the BBC here:
EU Referendum Results - BBC News

Cheers
( Last edited by Hawkeye_a; Jun 24, 2016 at 02:24 AM. )
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jun 24, 2016, 01:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
For once I hope you're right. I can't see it though, none of our politicians have any balls.
Apparently to you "having balls" means living in a fascist state.

I'm happy for you and the UK, this is a great moment in your history.
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Jun 24, 2016, 04:17 AM
 
Cameron has quit, UK stocks are dropping like a rock (20% for banks), pound is in freefall. Really hope this stabilizes quickly, because this is how recessions start.
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Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jun 24, 2016, 04:42 AM
 
I'd be shocked if they didn't, the EU loyalists are having a stroke, and that includes many of the Leftist elites who have so much riding on total European (and world) unification. They thought this couldn't happen, thought they could trample on people's rights and cheat them out of direct representation and replace it with committees. British citizens were sick of the social experiments and collectivist garbage, being told what they could and couldn't do with and in their own country, and they told the EU to take a hike.

For the first time in a long time I can say I'm proud of the UK.
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Jun 24, 2016, 04:49 AM
 
Pound and stock market have crashed. Fuel is already up 5p a litre around me. I am sick to my stomach. European markets down, global markets to follow.

I don't know what the long term or even medium term is going to look like, but for now, it's a shitstorm. I don't think it's unrealistic to worry this could have a similar effect to Lehman Brothers collapse. UK economy tanks, followed by Europe, followed by the world.

I think the best hope for us in the UK right now is that we've screwed the rest of the world too so we aren't so bad by comparison.

I know this sounds apocalyptic and holy hell I hope it doesn't happen, but the news thus far from markets virtually EVERYWHERE is bad. Let's hope it's just a hysterical over reaction and things calm down quickly.

I'm not going to get into the political/ethical/moral pros and cons of the choice- I'm not a citizen, I didn't get a vote, it's not my place. But from a purely economic point of view, at least in the near-medium term, this was a catastrophic result.
     
reader50
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Jun 24, 2016, 04:50 AM
 
Major political changes usually have headline reasons behind them. Maybe I've missed them. Why does Britain want to leave? I have good impressions of the EU - their politicians seem less corrupt than those on our side of the pond.
     
Paco500
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Jun 24, 2016, 04:55 AM
 
As a side note- I'm not a Cameron fan. I'm not a fan of his government. He almost screwed the country by coming very close to allowing Scotland to slip away, and his pandering to UKIP voters has allowed this result- which could very well end up with Scotland leaving anyway.

Maybe it will all be ok in the end. but, at least economically, it's doubtful it will be ok for a long, long time. It was his ambition and self-interest that got us here.

But for him to announce his resignation this morning and compound the confusion and instability was, in my mind, a horrible, horrible decision. He should have seen it through for at least the next few months to try to calm things down. He created this mess, he should have at least tried to help clean it up.
     
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Jun 24, 2016, 04:57 AM
 
The strong Labor areas in northern England were strongly in favor of Leave - this wasn't particularly a left-right decision. Corbyn was officially Remain, but it was a bloodless campaign, and he is now saying that the UK should trigger the exit clause now immediately. The only real logic to this was that the older voted to leave while the younger voted to remain. The only ones happy today are the nationalists - and Putin, who is apparently over the moon.

I think the world economy will survive, but I am not so confident when it comes to the UK economy. It is entirely centered around the City these days, and the City makes no sense for international corporations with the UK outside the EU.

International politics is even more worrying. There is a reason that Putin is happy - he will feel even freer to move now.
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Jun 24, 2016, 05:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
I think the world economy will survive, but I am not so confident when it comes to the UK economy. It is entirely centered around the City these days, and the City makes no sense for international corporations with the UK outside the EU.
When you say the "City." if you are referring to financial services, I actually think they will be among the least affected industries for a few reasons.

1. The City has been somewhat restrained by the EU. A good many of the exemptions from the EU treaties the UK has are around financial services. This could likely lead to even less restraints and could make the UK even more competitive with places like Dubai, Singapore, etc. This could be enhanced by...

2. The fact that it's manufacturing that is more likely to be hit. Multinationals that have headquarters and factories in the UK are very likely to shift to the common market. BMW has already hinted that Mini may eventually move to Europe, more will follow. As manufacturing (and agriculture for that matter) start to take the hits, Financial services could be come even more inappropriately vital to the UK economy. This will likely lead to...

3. More deregulation to boost the one thriving industry in the UK. Which could lead to a country which looks much more demographically like Dubai and Singapore- a small group of the fabulously wealthy surrounded by abject poverty.

This is all speculation of course. I sincerely hope everything calms down and the hit is not too bad. I love living here. I don't want to leave.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jun 24, 2016, 05:15 AM
 
The pound dropped to 1.35 in US dollars, now it's back up to 1.39 and climbing. I'm liking all the doomsayers though, they're creating some great bargains in the market.

There have been reasons for Brexit, clearly, but the MSM has been deliberately suppressing them, so it seems more stunning than it actually is. You can't take away a people's representation and expect them to abide, and that's what the EU committees had done. It's cronyism of the worst sort; people appointed for whom they know and the asses they kiss, not voted and elected. When more countries follow suit and abandon the EU ship, they'll learn that you can't now replace democracy with what amounts to communism (aka. collective leadership).
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Paco500
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Jun 24, 2016, 05:16 AM
 
It should be noted, in support of what I've written above, much of the financial services industry already sits outside of the common market- for example, a UK company cannot sell many types of insurance outside of the UK.
     
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Jun 24, 2016, 05:53 AM
 
The City is attractive to multinationals because it is mostly loosely regulated, yet inside the common market. Without the common market, it will become like a Hong Kong for the 21st century. Not bad in itself, but not a top two financial center like it is.

Manufacturing will be hit as well, probably worse, but it is already weak. I think that will have less of an effect on the UK economy as a whole, as it is already a smaller piece of it. Regionally that will be extremely painful, however.

Cap'n: the pound was at 1.5 before this, so it is still a huge drop even if it is recovering now. (And yes, I noticed some bargains too).

Note that many of the major UK newspapers were openly arguing for Brexit, notably The Sun, so the "MSM excuse" doesn't work here. And from the view of the last few weeks, it is not stunning, not at all. It was predicted to be very close, and it was. Looking at it from maybe two years ago, it was stunning, but so much has happened since then.
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Jun 24, 2016, 06:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Major political changes usually have headline reasons behind them. Maybe I've missed them. Why does Britain want to leave? I have good impressions of the EU - their politicians seem less corrupt than those on our side of the pond.
There are many reasons.

* Britain pays more into the common budget than it gets out, and always has (Germany, U.K., Netherlands and the Scandinavian countries all pay more than we get out. France pays a lot, but also cashes in on it, so it is close to zero most years). It has for a long time had some form of rebate on the fees it pays in - this goes up and down as political winds change - and the issue has remained in the spotlight. The rest of us who pay more than we get in have accepted it as the price for growing our common economy, but that view never seems to have won in the UK.
* An older generation of Britons don't see themselves as Europeans. They still think of themselves as the leaders of an Empire, and doesn't understand why they should be in some union with some French and Germans and whatnot. Look at the results as a function of age - it was the over 65 crowd who voted to leave.
* The UK, being on the periphery on an island with an economy that is no export-driven manufacturing wonder, probably sees less gain from being in than a small country in the middle of the continent.
* The UK mainly wants a trade free zone without the deeper integrations that the EU has been moving towards. They have exceptions to a lot of it, but there is always a worry that they think they will get forced into some federal state over time
* Immigration. Like in most countries, there is a small minority who is against and and all immigration, and the recent refugee crisis has scared them. This forms the hard core of the Brexit movement. That nut job who shot an MP seems to have been part of that group
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Jun 24, 2016, 07:04 AM
 
The MSM has been fuelling the lies that won this vote. The Daily Fail has been blaming every problem we have on immigrants for years when in fact EU migrants are a net benefit. The Sun is just as bad.

That minority who don't like immigration are not a minority, It covers the old, rich white racists, the white middle class who wish they were more like the old racists and the working class, "salt of the Earth" won't watch films with subtitles, football hooligan type racist idiots of all ages.

It has become abundantly clear during this campaign that even those with a genuine financial or business reason to vote leave seem to have at least a hint of misguided xenophobia mixed in with their opinions. It is also clear that the vast majority of leave voters lack understanding of the key issues. They don't know the structure of the EU or how it works, they don't understand what the money we pay in is for or why the huge amount of regulations are in place or what we get back. They also don't seem to be capable of research or telling truth from fiction.
Much like Trump supporters the majority seem to hear one or two things that resonate vaguely with their existing prejudices and they just run with it. And just like them when anyone points out what they are doing they take offence and dig their heels in even further.

Never underestimate the power of fear and stupidity.
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Chongo
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Jun 24, 2016, 07:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
The MSM has been fuelling the lies that won this vote. The Daily Fail has been blaming every problem we have on immigrants for years when in fact EU migrants are a net benefit. The Sun is just as bad.

That minority who don't like immigration are not a minority, It covers the old, rich white racists, the white middle class who wish they were more like the old racists and the working class, "salt of the Earth" won't watch films with subtitles, football hooligan type racist idiots of all ages.

It has become abundantly clear during this campaign that even those with a genuine financial or business reason to vote leave seem to have at least a hint of misguided xenophobia mixed in with their opinions. It is also clear that the vast majority of leave voters lack understanding of the key issues. They don't know the structure of the EU or how it works, they don't understand what the money we pay in is for or why the huge amount of regulations are in place or what we get back. They also don't seem to be capable of research or telling truth from fiction.
Much like Trump supporters the majority seem to hear one or two things that resonate vaguely with their existing prejudices and they just run with it. And just like them when anyone points out what they are doing they take offence and dig their heels in even further.

Never underestimate the power of fear and stupidity.
You mean "Islamophobia" Where are they majority of the "immigrants" coming from, and are they families, or are they young men?
     
Paco500
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Jun 24, 2016, 07:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
You mean "Islamophobia" Where are they majority of the "immigrants" coming from, and are they families, or are they young men?
This is not the case. The vast majority of immigrants that little Englanders are so worked up about are from eastern Europe. While I'm sure there was a degree of 'Islamophobia" in the mix, we have not taken the waves of refugees the continent has.

Don't believe everything Trump/Alex Jones/Fox News tell you.
     
Paco500
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Jun 24, 2016, 08:01 AM
 
It's interesting, but not in the least surprising, that one of the primary indicators of how someone voted was their level of education. Those without higher education or without qualifications were MUCH more likely to vote leave.
     
turtle777
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Jun 24, 2016, 08:27 AM
 
Pfff. The U.K. Is doomed. Just like it was doomed when it declined to accept the Euro

-t
     
Paco500
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Jun 24, 2016, 08:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Pfff. The U.K. Is doomed. Just like it was doomed when it declined to accept the Euro

-t
You may be right in the long term, and I sincerely hope so, but this decision in no way compares to that of not taking the Euro. Accepting the Euro would have been a change to the status quo. Leaving the EU is not simply keeping things the way they are, it is a massive, radical change. In geopolitical terms, the only event that has come close to it's scale in the modern era is the break-up of the Soviet Union. There will be a reconfiguration of the second largest economy in the world (first by some measures), the EU.

Again, I'm not arguing if it was philosophically the right choice or not, but economically, it is going to cause massive ripples globally. Instability is not a good thing.
     
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Jun 24, 2016, 08:46 AM
 
@the doom sayers


The UK will be alright. Markets dont like uncertainty, thats why the volatility. However, i think those big companies will be fine (I wouldnt want to trade my vote/voice just so they could have a few more millions in their pockets).

I'm no anglophile, but the UK is now free to chart it's own course in history, and i think they are more than able to do so, especially without the chains of Europe.

The big picture, the big question is now the EU. It's obvious other nations want to leave... Italy, France, Netherlands. I'm not so certain about the benefit for them if they leave.

What i find interesting, is that almost every county/shire in Scotland voted to remain. And N.Ireland as a whole voted to remain.

Cheers
     
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Jun 24, 2016, 08:59 AM
 
I have to add that IMHO the straw which broke the camel's back, is the empress in Germany who single handedly dissolved European sovereignty. (and by extension the sovereignty of every member of the EU)
     
turtle777
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Jun 24, 2016, 10:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
I have to add that IMHO the straw which broke the camel's back, is the empress in Germany who single handedly dissolved European sovereignty. (and by extension the sovereignty of every member of the EU)
She's only the tip of the iceberg.

Just look at all those unelected nannycrats in Brussels.
It's a tyranny of bureaucrats.

They are like fat maggots, feasting off the European countries.

Yes, Juncker, I'm looking at you, you lying bastard.

-t
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jun 24, 2016, 10:39 AM
 
"They're griping about immigrants! Old racists!" It astounds me all the Regressives complaining that the UK is losing all of the EU's bureaucracy. Who wouldn't want to stay as part of a collective with representatives that you can't even vote out? **** democracy, that's sooo much better.
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Jun 24, 2016, 11:06 AM
 
I see markets are tanking around the globe. I'm surprised a vote of this significance didn't require a 2/3 majority. We'll see how it all pans out.

OAW
     
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Jun 24, 2016, 11:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
I have to add that IMHO the straw which broke the camel's back, is the empress in Germany who single handedly dissolved European sovereignty. (and by extension the sovereignty of every member of the EU)
How did she do that, and in what case?
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Jun 24, 2016, 11:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
I see markets are tanking around the globe. I'm surprised a vote of this significance didn't require a 2/3 majority. We'll see how it all pans out.

OAW
It is only an advisory referendum, but the ruling Tories have committed to abiding by it.
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Jun 24, 2016, 11:32 AM
 
My unsolicited tuppence...

Leaving or staying is ultimately of minor consequence. The far bigger problem is it looks like half the U.K. thinks the other half are racist dumb****s.

To put it another way, your problem is finding the ease of superficial analysis more attractive than the hard work of getting along with each other.

Before you respond, remember I'm an American. I'm very familiar with superficial analysis, and not getting along.
     
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Jun 24, 2016, 11:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
It is only an advisory referendum, but the ruling Tories have committed to abiding by it.
So IOW it's not legally binding? As in the ruling party could back out if things really go south?

OAW
     
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Jun 24, 2016, 11:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
I see markets are tanking around the globe. I'm surprised a vote of this significance didn't require a 2/3 majority. We'll see how it all pans out.

OAW
It certainly didn't take 2/3 to get in.

Why make it harder to get out ?

-t
     
turtle777
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Jun 24, 2016, 11:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
My unsolicited tuppence...

Leaving or staying is ultimately of minor consequence. The far bigger problem is it looks like half the U.K. thinks the other half are racist dumb****s.

To put it another way, your problem is the ease of superficial analysis is more attractive than the hard work of getting along with each other.

Before you respond, remember I'm an American. I'm very familiar with superficial analysis.
Touchee.

"You teh wacist" is the cheap way of shutting someone up.
We should name it Godwin's Law #2.

-t
     
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Jun 24, 2016, 11:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Leaving or staying is ultimately of minor consequence. The far bigger problem is it looks like half the U.K. thinks the other half are racist dumb****s.
I agree, the vote is too close; it has effectively divided the nation. Irrespective of what the outcome is, ~50% would be unhappy/dissatisfied. Such is the reality of democracy. And something this close is the "worst case". That being said, I don't know if there is a better system/way to decide such matters.

Another surprising thing was the fact that the bookies got it totally wrong. This is the first time i've seen that happen.

Labour voters apparently abandoned their party on this issue. So the electorate was not mirroring the political establishment, which is interesting as well. Both major political parties were effectively campaigning against Brexit.

What happens next, now that Cameron has resigned.....
     
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Jun 24, 2016, 12:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
It certainly didn't take 2/3 to get in.

Why make it harder to get out ?

-t
If true that's a fair point.

OAW
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jun 24, 2016, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
My unsolicited tuppence...

Leaving or staying is ultimately of minor consequence. The far bigger problem is it looks like half the U.K. thinks the other half are racist dumb****s.
It's time for people to ignore the "racist", "sexist", and "Islamophobic" slurs and stop letting such comments affect them. They're our countries and we let in who we want, the collectivists can go pound sand. They've overused their hateful trigger words and now they mean nothing.

To put it another way, your problem is finding the ease of superficial analysis more attractive than the hard work of getting along with each other.
and the narrow-minded collective won't get along with anyone unless the person or group is under the same yoke as them. So **** `em.
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Jun 24, 2016, 12:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
Another surprising thing was the fact that the bookies got it totally wrong. This is the first time i've seen that happen.
Not really, it's just that the bet "market" was manipulated by big bets.

Something Strange Emerges When Looking Behind The "Brexit" Bookie Odds | Zero Hedge

The bookies themselves knew it:

Head Of Political Betting At Ladbrokes: "If I Had To Put Money On It, I'd Back Leave" | Zero Hedge

-t
     
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Jun 24, 2016, 12:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Cheers for clearing that up. The news outlets seemed to be reporting that "Remain" were healthily winning @ the bookies before the vote.
     
turtle777
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Jun 24, 2016, 12:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
Cheers for clearing that up. The news outlets seemed to be reporting that "Remain" were healthily winning @ the bookies before the vote.
Yeah, that was pure propaganda.

The mainstream media was (is) firmly in the grips of politicians and big money.

-t
     
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Jun 24, 2016, 12:57 PM
 
People wanting to slow immigration are racists? This is an actual establishment in the UK. Do you see the sign? Does that look right to you?



Do you feel this restaurant owner is trying to integrate with Western culture? They're embracing British values of equality?
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OAW
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Jun 24, 2016, 01:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
If true that's a fair point.

OAW
That being said this is troubling any way you slice it ....

The whole world is reeling after a milestone referendum in Britain to leave the European Union. And although leaders of the campaign to exit Europe are crowing over their victory, it seems many Britons may not even know what they had actually voted for.

Awakening to a stock market plunge and a precipitous decline in the value of the pound that Britain hasn't seen in more than 30 years, voters now face a series of economic shocks that analysts say will only worsen before they improve. The consequences of the leave vote will be felt worldwide, even here in the United States, and some British voters say they now regret casting a ballot in favor of Brexit.

"Even though I voted to leave, this morning I woke up and I just — the reality did actually hit me," one woman told the news channel ITV News. "If I'd had the opportunity to vote again, it would be to stay."

That confusion over what Brexit might mean for the country's economy appears to have been reflected across the United Kingdom on Thursday. Google reported sharp upticks in searches not only related to the ballot measure but also about basic questions concerning the implications of the vote. At about 1 a.m. Eastern time, about eight hours after the polls closed, Google reported that searches for "what happens if we leave the EU" had more than tripled.

The British are frantically Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it | WashingtonPost.com


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Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jun 24, 2016, 01:10 PM
 
Troubling? Want to see what's actually "troubling"? The wealthy minority was screwing with the bookies to influence the vote, skewing the odds with large bets despite the polls showing a slim Leave advantage. I guess that's okay, though, because it's fine when the 1% manipulate the system for their own gain, just so long as you like the results. The hypocrisy is galling.

"Wealthy financial entities, including local banks and rich individuals, all of whom have an interest in keeping the UK in the EU and preserving the status quo, are placing far larger bets, even if their number is ultimately far lower than the number of people betting on Brexit. And in yet another case of reflexivity, with the public seeing that "Remain" is winning based on bookie odds, it is shifting popular sentiment toward Remain, even as the vast majority of bets is actually for Leave."
Something Strange Emerges When Looking Behind The "Brexit" Bookie Odds | Zero Hedge
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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subego
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Jun 24, 2016, 01:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
No one who voted to stay decided to Google the consequences afterwards?

WaPo gets a yellow card for shitty statistical analysis.
     
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Jun 24, 2016, 01:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Troubling? Want to see what's actually "troubling"? The wealthy minority was screwing with the bookies to influence the vote, skewing the odds with large bets despite the polls showing a slim Leave advantage. I guess that's okay, though, because it's fine when the 1% manipulate the system for their own gain, just so long as you like the results. The hypocrisy is galling.



Something Strange Emerges When Looking Behind The "Brexit" Bookie Odds | Zero Hedge
I presume you mean "you" in the general sense? Because I really don't have a dog in this race one way or the other.

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Jun 24, 2016, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
No one who voted to stay decided to Google the consequences afterwards?

WaPo gets a yellow card for shitty statistical analysis.
I don't think the article is making that assertion. Notwithstanding the quote from the one person who voted to leave. I think it's just saying that the British in general are inquiring about the consequences at a considerably higher rate after the vote than before. I don't think we can reach any conclusions as to which side is represented in those after-the-fact inquiries or to what degree one way or the other.

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Jun 24, 2016, 02:08 PM
 
I dont know the stats nor the mindset of the British public before or after the vote.

However, with the amount of obvious fear mongering from politicians, businesses, and the media, i would assume there would be a gap between what they said before the vote, and what actually happens now.

I would probably be googling to see what real consequences transpire.

Despite all that, against those kind of odds and adversaries, to make a change of this magnitude, from certainty to uncertainty, for a nation takes a whole heap of courage.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 24, 2016, 02:22 PM
 
As mentioned there is a strong correlation that people with University degrees voted in, and people without them voted out. I've been listening to people talking about their decisions and reasons all the way through, I've asked my friends and my customers their feelings about it all. Everyone has been happy to declare their allegiance which I actually thought was a bit odd.

Of all the people I've spoken to online, IRL, heard on the radio etc etc who voted out, Online married couple had a good business reason for voting out without any hint of underlying xenophobia or racism. Literally every other out voter did. CTP has hit on something when he says that such accusations have become meaningless. Its truer in the US than here. While 52% of our population are racist idiots, they are still denying it. Whatever the exact percentage, you guys have a whole lot of super-racist idiots, and they are proud of it. But this isn't about them.

Whether you want to be diplomatic and call it xenophobia, or really kind and call it insularity, its been the single strongest motivator for the out campaign IMO. Mostly because the other common theme that I've heard in listening to them is that they haven't bothered to read up and understand exactly what they are voting for, what things it might effect, how the EU works, how true any of the claims or statistics are. This vote has literally been the informed against ignorant. So the Washington for once is accurate. The leavers have woken up to the market crashes, the PM resigning, the opposition trying to oust their leader and the unmitigated fury from all the smart people on social media and are very much wondering what the **** they have just done.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Jun 24, 2016, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
"They're griping about immigrants! Old racists!" It astounds me all the Regressives complaining that the UK is losing all of the EU's bureaucracy. Who wouldn't want to stay as part of a collective with representatives that you can't even vote out? **** democracy, that's sooo much better.
Obviously we CAN vote on European matters. There IS a European parliament and we elect MEP's to it, they represent our wishes in Europe. The Government also represents our wishes as clarified in each general election. The old Europe is not democratic gets rolled out once every weekend here as part of the ongoing low level bitching about Europe we have had for the past two decades, usually just after the latest round of straight banana and British sausages aren't sausages idiocy that seems to never go away. Except it will now.

Having voted in to a union with many faults but also many good reasons to be part of I was just shocked to wake up to the result. And saddened. My children will no long have the right to live and work in Europe, to move freely over the continent and to benefit from being part of Europe's great culture, they will be tourists passing through.

Obviously the UK as the second largest economy in Europe can stand to go alone, however I can't help but feel that we are in for a period of long slow decline, relegated to a backwater on the world stage, in 20 years time life here for the average person will be harder than it is now.

I can also see a real danger that in an attempt to keep some kind of economic growth the UK will essentially become a giant tax haven. Great for the financial elite but the ruination of the rest of the country.

The whole referendum was just to appease Cameron's right wing in the run up to the last election. He has traded our future for an extra year as PM. We may well loose Scotland as well, Northern Ireland has mentioned the possibility of reunification and to add insult to injury Spain has asked if we would mind leaving Gibraltar behind on the way out, although why we still have it is a mystery to me.

Both my daughters feel that the older generation has betrayed them, as do most of the students I know.

All in all it's been quite a day.
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