[Troll]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
This one is easy to explain. Americans don't walk in the dark. The only place anyone walks at night is to and from their cars -- and thanks to the personal injury lawyers, parking lots are all well lit.

And here I was thinking personal injury lawyers weren't good for anything!

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Troll:
Although your chances of being burgled are higher in the UK, the chances of your being the victim of violent crime are lower.

Those figures don't seem right, since it's almost impossible to go out at night here without witnessing a violent crime in some form or another.

[Troll]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Those figures don't seem right, since it's almost impossible to go out at night here without witnessing a violent crime in some form or another.

Oh please! You can go out in Johannesburg every night and it would be extremely rare to see a violent crime. In the UK your chances of witnessing a violent crime in your entire life are virtually zero.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by Troll:
Oh please! You can go out in Johannesburg every night and it would be extremely rare to see a violent crime. In the UK your chances of witnessing a violent crime in your entire life are virtually zero.

You never heard the story about my honeymoon in Europe, huh?

I witnessed a mugging in broad daylight on a busy street in London. Two guys beat up a dude and took his hand truck full of what looked to be boxes of cabbage.

Then there was the guy in Munich that had his throat slashed and was being carried by two of his friends...

Heck, I've seen more violence in the 11 weeks I've spent outside the USA than I've seen in 38 years inside the USA.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Troll:
Oh please! You can go out in Johannesburg every night and it would be extremely rare to see a violent crime. In the UK your chances of witnessing a violent crime in your entire life are virtually zero.

Uh huh. If you say so.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...%2Fncrim25.xml

But the "victimisation risk" - showing the risk of suffering a crime - in England and Wales is higher for overall crime than anywhere else in Europe, and higher than in America. The same is true of falling victim to "contact" - violent - crime.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1119896.stm

Central Newcastle: Highest number of violent attacks - ranging from common assault to murder - with 236.5 per 1,000 residents.

[Spliffdaddy]

236 per 1000 ?

25% of the residents, on average, will be victims of violent crime?

1 in every 4?

dayum.

Those folks should be armed.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
236 per 1000 ?

25% of the residents, on average, will be victims of violent crime?

1 in every 4?

dayum.

Those folks should be armed.

Where the hell is smith's grove, KY?

[Spliffdaddy]

About 10 miles north of Bowling Green. On I-65.

I'm building a house there. Since I retired from AT&T in Charlotte last month, I've decided to build houses for a living. My first and second such house will be in Smith's Grove.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
236 per 1000 ?

25% of the residents, on average, will be victims of violent crime?

1 in every 4?

No. Troll says the chances of witnessing a violent crime here in our entire lives are virtually zero, so I'm going with his figures.

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Those folks should be armed.

Exactly!

[dcolton]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Where the hell is smith's grove, KY?

Excellent! KY is God's country. You will love it.

[SimeyTheLimey]

^ Don't mind the person in the corner talking to himself.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
^ Don't mind the person in the corner talking to himself.

lol...just noticed that. I have this vision of myself rocking in the corner of the room, ranting about gay marriage while every once in a while screaming 'KY is god's country' like a person with Turrets(sp?) syndrome.

[Troll]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
You never heard the story about my honeymoon in Europe, huh?

I witnessed a mugging in broad daylight on a busy street in London. Two guys beat up a dude and took his hand truck full of what looked to be boxes of cabbage.

Then there was the guy in Munich that had his throat slashed and was being carried by two of his friends...

Heck, I've seen more violence in the 11 weeks I've spent outside the USA than I've seen in 38 years inside the USA.

You guys are a bunch of wussies! A mugging is violent crime? Where I come from they shoot you, then check if you have anything worth stealing. In the entire time I lived in Jo'burg I think our house got broken into 5 times (mostly the garage). I never saw the burglars. Cars got broken into routinely. If you left it outside overnight, they broke in. I was mugged once. I never saw a violent crime ever. I've lived in London and never saw a violent crime. A few fights, some pickpocketing but never violent crime. Lived in Paris and had an armed intruder in the office. Nothing serious though. Lived in the States and never saw a violent crime either.

The thing is no matter how many anecdotes you present, facts remain facts. There is more crime including violent crime in the US than there is in Europe and that despite the fact that there are less guns over here. In both places though, your chances of being in a position where a gun would help are so remote as to be negligible.

[Troll]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Uh huh. If you say so.

580,000 incidents of crimes against the person in a population of 60,000,000! What does that tell you about your chances? Besides, you might have noticed that the trend is for less crime (total crimes down) and the specific kind of crime you want to use a gun against are also down (burglary down for the seventh consecutive year).

It's violence against the person that is up, which means that you'd need to be carrying a gun in public if you wanted it to be of any use.

As for Newcastle, I recall there being criticism of the figure you quote. Are you a resident of Newcastle city centre? The official resident population of Newcastle city centre is only 4,211 which anyone who's been there knows is a completely stupid number to divide by. There were less than a thousand violent incidents and when you look at what qualifies, you realise that only a tiny fraction would be incidents in which a gun could be used. Scuffles in the parking lot outside Tesco's are not appropriate deadly force incidents.

I'm not saying that crime isn't bad in the UK, but suggesting that crime is bad there BECAUSE there aren't guns is nonsense. Countries where there are plenty of guns are in a far worse position than the UK is and despite the UK's law crime is on the decrease across the country.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Troll:
580,000 incidents of crimes against the person in a population of 60,000,000! What does that tell you about your chances?

It tells me that the government are cooking the figures again. Remember, we're heading into an election with a government who said "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" last time around.

I can tell you that any night I go out to the city I'll see at least one beating taking place. It's usual to see a variety.

Originally posted by Troll:
Besides, you might have noticed that the trend is for less crime (total crimes down) and the specific kind of crime you want to use a gun against are also down (burglary down for the seventh consecutive year).

Again, government figures. If I could, I'd point you to a report in today's rag which highlights the fact that the police aren't actually recording crimes which they're not convinced they can't get a conviction for.

Do you not think it a little strange that the UK government is, on one hand, telling us that crime is down while on the other is telling us that binge drinking related violence is a problem?

Originally posted by Troll:
I'm not saying that crime isn't bad in the UK, but suggesting that crime is bad there BECAUSE there aren't guns is nonsense.

Nobody was suggesting this. I was simply replying to a post which implied that nobody in the UK ever sees any violent crime. I'm in the UK and I'm telling you differently - it's everywhere.

Originally posted by Troll:
Countries where there are plenty of guns are in a far worse position than the UK is and despite the UK's law crime is on the decrease across the country.

Again, government cooked figures.

[Troll]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
I can tell you that any night I go out to the city I'll see at least one beating taking place. It's usual to see a variety.

What is your definition of violent crime and what do you mean by "beating"? You mention binge drinking so it sounds like you're talking about the drunken fist fights that I have seen in the UK before. If that's what you mean, I'd hardly consider that violent crime and I certainly wouldn't say that the correct response should be to shoot the people engaging in it! In fact, just imagine how much worse those incidents might be if people had guns.

I'll tell you one thing, I think the UK has a huge alcohol problem. I'd think solving your 'beating' problem would be far more succesful by focussing on your relationship with alcohol than by arming the population.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Troll:
What is your definition of violent crime and what do you mean by "beating"?

Hospital.

Originally posted by Troll:
I'll tell you one thing, I think the UK has a huge alcohol problem. I'd think solving your 'beating' problem would be far more succesful by focussing on your relationship with alcohol than by arming the population.

No, it's deeper than that. The UK actually likes violence, with or without the demon drink. It's bred into us. How else do you think a country of this size managed to have an empire as large as we did?

The only thing holding the the vast majority of the UK social structure together is the threat of being beaten senseless by someone bigger than you.

[Troll]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
The only thing holding the the vast majority of the UK social structure together is the threat of being beaten senseless by someone bigger than you.

I think that is what holds a lot of societies together actually!

As for your hospital comment, I still don't know what you mean. Are you talking about bar brawls or are you talking about old ladies being attacked? What are these violent crimes you regularly witness?

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
The only thing holding the the vast majority of the UK social structure together is the threat of being beaten senseless by someone bigger than you.

[goMac]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
This one is easy to explain. Americans don't walk in the dark.

Do you seriously believe this?

[cold_reality]

This is funny as hell. America is the only country dat actually believes if we arm EVERYBODY there'll be no more crime.
NRA: National Rifle Addiction!