[grovberg]

Let's just go ahead and assume for the purposes of this discussion that the Intel iBooks are indeed coming in January. I already have my own opinions about this, but I thought I'd run a poll to see if you guys would wait for the Intel iBook knowing that it will likely be very shiny and awesome, but also a 1.0 version of a MAJOR platform change, or go ahead and get the last PPC iBook revision so that you can have a stable iBook that will certainly last for awhile.

It's worth pointing out that this is for my wife, who will use it solely for AIM, surfing the web and checking her email.

Oh and please forgive me if this has already been discussed to death (as I'm sure it has).

[hookem2oo7]

i just bought a 1.33 PPC ibook. I figured that these ibooks are tested and true. I am considering also purchasing an intel ibook when they do come out, but just to play with. i am very happy with the PPC ibook. It may be a good idea to wait until the intel books come out and pick up a PPC ibook for cheaper if the prices drop...

[Goldfinger]

The performance difference between the Intel and PPC iBooks will probably be pretty huge. I'd get an Intel iBook. All this talk about rev.A problems is also way overrated. I've never had/seen problems with rev.A machines personally.

[Eug Wanker]

No guarantee it will be available in January. I have no inside info, but I would have expected the iBook to use the Celeron M Yonah with 1 MB L2. It will be a fast chip, and faster than the Celeron name might suggest. However, it's not due out until Q2.

January sees the release of dual-core Yonah, and single-core Yonah with 2 MB L2. The latter chip could be used, but it's potentially kinda expensive for a single-core chip, so there's no guarantee Apple will use it in the iBook.

[zign]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

No guarantee it will be available in January. I have no inside info, but I would have expected the iBook to use the Celeron M Yonah with 1 MB L2. It will be a fast chip, and faster than the Celeron name might suggest. However, it's not due out until Q2.

January sees the release of dual-core Yonah, and single-core Yonah with 2 MB L2. The latter chip could be used, but it's potentially kinda expensive for a single-core chip, so there's no guarantee Apple will use it in the iBook.

What about Celeron M (Dothan ULV)? They could use that.

[hookem2oo7]

the reason i suggested the ppc book is because of what he said it would be used for. if i was looking for power i'd try for the intel book, but for word processing/internet/aim even my clamshell does a good job

[mduell]

Originally Posted by zign

What about Celeron M (Dothan ULV)? They could use that.

I can't see why Apple would use the (more expensive and lower clocked) ULV Celeron M parts in an iBook when they could use the regular Celeron M.

I'd expect to see the Intel iBooks using single core Yonah chips ("Centrino Solo").

[slugslugslug]

Well, I also don't think they'll be available yet in January, even if they are announced, but I went along with yr assumption for the poll and voted wait. Hell, in the real world, if you're not in a hurry, you may as well wait a month to see what happens, right? Anyway, I'll probably be buying an iBook this spring or summer, whether it's had a revision or not. From my vague recollections of which Macs have problems, I don't think brand new designs are that much more prone than revisions, just that those are more memorable. Until I see a well-documented analysis of the supposed "Rev A problem," I'm gonna assume it's in people's heads.

There, I said it. <ducks and covers>

[erniesthings]

Get the PPC ibook. For all you said it would be used for you'll be more than happy.

Your wife might end up with a lot more hassles/problems with a first gen. intel ibook.

If you want to get the intel ibook I would wait a couple months or so to see what the boards/media are saying the pro and cons are.

my 2 cents

[dreamryche]

I second erniesthings. I just bought a refurb current-revision iBook and it's more than fine for everyday web usage.

[Will C]

A bit off track this, but if any Intel based Macs are announced in January, I bet none actually get delivered until February or later going on what has happened in the past* - so I would suggest if you need a machine before the end of Januray, get a PPC.

*I would love to be wrong

[JoeDokes]

You may haved missed an option in your poll. If, as suggested, the prices of the new iBooks will be lower than current prices, and with a newer model as well, what happens to prices on the current stock of iBooks? You may want to think of waiting until the announcement/shipping to get a PPC iBook at a great price.

[volcano]

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

Until I see a well-documented analysis of the supposed "Rev A problem," I'm gonna assume it's in people's heads.

iMac G5. Need I say more?

http://www.apple.com/support/imac/re...ensionprogram/

The recall includes ALL first-generation iMac G5s, and a select few second-generation models.

On top of that, if you do a quick scan of iMac-related forums, you'll note the number of users who complain about the heat issues and loudness of the system when compared to the second or third revision of this machine.

Another thing to consider is the availability of software immediately following the release of the first Intel Mac. Developers and programmers are still working on converting their software to the x86 platform, and I wouldn't hold my breath expecting their next software release (Microsoft Office, Macromedia Suite, Adobe Creative Suite off the top of my head) to be supported by the Intel platform. I doubt we'll see anything beyond Apple's software to be fully supported by Intel chips until the summer of 2006. Granted, you will be able to use Rosetta and emulate PPC-based software, but it'll be considerably slower.

Like others have suggested, wait and see what happens. If they do release a new iBook (PPC or Intel), prices on current models should drop.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by volcano

iMac G5. Need I say more?

http://www.apple.com/support/imac/re...ensionprogram/

The recall includes ALL first-generation iMac G5s, and a select few second-generation models.

One (kinda) example of the first revision being worse than the later generations. I say kinda because, as you note, it affects Rev B too.

Here are 7 examples of bugs or recalls that affected either multiple revisions, or revisions excluding the first:
Big iBook recall covers every "snow" G3 revision.
PowerBook G3 power adapter recall does not affect Rev A.
15" PowerBook battery recall affects 2nd half of rev A and 1st half of rev B.
iBook and PowerBook battery recall does not affect Rev A of either machine.
The "G5 freezes" problem only affected Rev B.
The G5 "chirps" affected revisions A, B, and C.
The iPod battery lawsuit that Apple settled included Rev A, B, and C.

[slugslugslug]

Originally Posted by mduell

One (kinda) example of the first revision being worse than the later generations. I say kinda because, as you note, it affects Rev B too.

Here are 7 examples of bugs or recalls that affected either multiple revisions, or revisions excluding the first:
...

Thanks, Mark. I was gonna reply that volcano's 1 example isn't anywhere near sufficient to demonstrate that there's a large pattern of the "Rev A Problem." Your 7 examples don't, of course, disprove it, but then, the burden of proof's not on you. Anyway, now those who insist the Problem is real are going to need enough data to outweigh all of yours.

Again, I'm not saying for sure that the Problem isn't real, just that I've never seen anyone offer anything but anecdotal evidence for it. Surely someone around here is enough of a Mac history buff and good enough at statistics to give the evidence a thorough going-over..

But now I'm hijacking the thread. Perhaps I'll try to bring it up in the lounge. Sorry grovberg.

On-topic: JoeDokes makes a good point about the possibility of a PPC closeout sale. So since you don't seem like you're in a huge hurry, I still say wait a month.

[Pogomwg]

About a possible price drop of the current PPC ibooks. If they do drop the price how do you guys think that would work? Would they drop the price right before the confrence in SF or do you think they will just pull the PPC off the website and sell them as refurbs or distribute them to retailers like amazon or what? Or would they offer the PPC and the mactels on their website until they ran out of stock on the PPC?

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by volcano

iMac G5. Need I say more?

http://www.apple.com/support/imac/re...ensionprogram/

The recall includes ALL first-generation iMac G5s, and a select few second-generation models.

On top of that, if you do a quick scan of iMac-related forums, you'll note the number of users who complain about the heat issues and loudness of the system when compared to the second or third revision of this machine.

Another thing to consider is the availability of software immediately following the release of the first Intel Mac. Developers and programmers are still working on converting their software to the x86 platform, and I wouldn't hold my breath expecting their next software release (Microsoft Office, Macromedia Suite, Adobe Creative Suite off the top of my head) to be supported by the Intel platform. I doubt we'll see anything beyond Apple's software to be fully supported by Intel chips until the summer of 2006. Granted, you will be able to use Rosetta and emulate PPC-based software, but it'll be considerably slower.

Like others have suggested, wait and see what happens. If they do release a new iBook (PPC or Intel), prices on current models should drop.

Your sig is way too big.

[slugslugslug]

Well now Think Secret is saying new iBooks early next year, but they're not giving specifics, so maybe not MWSF. I'd say you could get into April and still call it early in the year.

Note how they're also talking about a 13.3" widescreen to replace the 14", while keeping the 12". That sounds slammin'. It does kinda make sense to keep the 12er for those who value portability the most. Me, I can't hardly wait for the wide one..

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

Note how they're also talking about a 13.3" widescreen to replace the 14", while keeping the 12". That sounds slammin'. It does kinda make sense to keep the 12er for those who value portability the most. Me, I can't hardly wait for the wide one..

Sounds like a PowerBook to me, or at least what the PowerBook 12" should have been.

[slugslugslug]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Sounds like a PowerBook to me, or at least what the PowerBook 12" should have been.

That's kinda what I was thinking, and why I posted a separate thread in the PB forum. I think the awesomest way to go would be 12- and 13.3-inch iBooks, and 13.3-, 15- and 17-inch PowerBooks. Suppose that might cause problems for the folks out there who appreciate the lower pixel density of the 14" iBook. I wonder if there's any way Apple could implement the res-independent UI features without requiring apps to be recompiled.. I saw the demo, but I forget how it worked...

[andrewgf]

I'm happy to wait regardless of whether its January or a couple of months. My Mac Mini is good but seriously underpowered. I'd rate the Ibook similarly.

The extra speed and power are worth it to my mind. I'd be hoping that it offsets the emulation overhead.

[far200]

I keep hearing how first gen anything has bugs so I would wait till the second gen ibooks come out...... which should be around summer if the new intel ibooks comes in january.

[slugslugslug]

I keep hearing that people have been abducted by aliens and had their butts probed. That doesn't mean I'm gonna go repeating it like it's true.

[production_coordinator]

It's no secret that the first gen of ANYTHING is generally more "buggy" as compared to a 2nd gen. If it's an iBook for your personal use, I wouldn't think twice about waiting until Jan and seeing what Apple has to offer [x86 or PPC... it should still work about the same]. If it's a production system [running business critical applications, home business, etc. etc.], I might hold off until summer on buying [if not longer] and let everyone else "test" the hardware.

My rule of thumb... wait until you can't wait any longer and then buy and never buy a gen 1 of anything [as much as it's hard to do so]

People saying "don't buy x86" and "there won't be any issues with x86" IMHO aren't being realistic... I think we will find glitches, but it's not going to be all that bad.

[slugslugslug]

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

It's no secret that the first gen of ANYTHING is generally more "buggy" as compared to a 2nd gen.

I'm sure that varies greatly with the product and the company that makes a thing. Some things are developed over long periods of time. If a product is well tested and not rushed to market, it might be just as good as subsequent refinements. Apple has a slight disadvantage here, in that they've set everyone up to expect really big announcements at a few key times of year. But they still get a little leeway by preannouncing stuff, or just making dates for special events when they're good and ready.

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

If it's an iBook for your personal use, I wouldn't think twice about waiting until Jan and seeing what Apple has to offer [x86 or PPC... it should still work about the same]. If it's a production system [running business critical applications, home business, etc. etc.], I might hold off until summer on buying [if not longer] and let everyone else "test" the hardware.

If I were buying a new computer to switch over business-critical apps, I'd wait a few weeks or months after it was out, no matter what generation it was. But if I heard few complaints about it, I'd have no hesitation getting a first-generation machine.

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

My rule of thumb... wait until you can't wait any longer and then buy and never buy a gen 1 of anything [as much as it's hard to do so]

People saying "don't buy x86" and "there won't be any issues with x86" IMHO aren't being realistic... I think we will find glitches, but it's not going to be all that bad.

If first-gen products were so reliably unreliable that the best strategy is to never buy them, Apple would've gone out of business with warranty repair, returns, and terrible word-of-mouth.

[Goldfinger]

Don't buy into that "don't get a rev. A" talk. I never had problems with them nor have most people. You only read about problems on these forums. Nobody ever comes on to tell us their experience was great with a certain product.

[Flip500]

Oops... i voted (for intel) before reading that "surfing the internet and AIM" part, i now vote to wait a month until the Mactels (might) come out and then buy a PPC iB, they will be much cheaper and she really doesn't need any power... at all, maybe 512 mb of RAM (and yes i know that comes standard).

[Butch Hauke]

I just bought a 12" iBook for the wife for Christmas from Amazon. They had them for sale for a day or two for $899 plus another $100 back on a rebate. This will be fine for her and for $799 I didn't think I could go wrong. I'll probably be the first in the family to get an Intel powered Mac but it probably won't be a portable.

Butch

[nikon]

No matter which one I was getting I would have to wait until after the announcement at MacWorld. If the released a 13.3" mactel ibook, then I would say goodbye to the PPC. Otherwise I would just get a cheaper PPC iBook.

[[APi]TheMan]

The question should have been "PPC iBook in a month or Intel iBook in a month"... Hah. Either way, you'll get a new iBook. I'd wait until Macworld and see if the new Intel iBooks are nice, and then decide.

I think it's worth waiting

[sine -''-..-]

Since I have know idea how good the new iBooks will be, and have no idea when they'll be out... All I can say is that the PPC iBook is so freaking sweet and that I love it. I upgraded from a 1ghz to a 1.33 model... and man... the bluetooth, brighter screen... etc... oh its awesome.

I have not regretted it at all.